| Not all degrees worthwhile? 14:02 - Feb 5 with 9499 views | Professor |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529
Lisa made this point in another thread recently. I tend to agree that too many people go to university undertaking degrees that are arguable less worthwhile than an apprenticeship. I strongly advocate work-based learning that can be accredited towards qualifications, though many academics don't like this, why not work in civil engineering or business and study through work?
Any other thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:49 - Feb 5 with 3784 views | perchrockjack |
Depends where this country sees at its priorities
Have to say this thread one of the best for some time
And almost all posts sticking to topic | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:56 - Feb 5 with 3776 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:17 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
And that is very fair Steve
You re good to debate with ,fair play .
We re only simply Jacks aren't we |
Simple indeed Rich  |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:58 - Feb 5 with 3772 views | perchrockjack |
As in simple not Simple | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:37 - Feb 5 with 3745 views | jack_lord |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:13 - Feb 5 by Neath_Jack |
I agree with you Max, there's a lot of snobbery about when it comes to University and how courses are supposedly getting easier and easier every year.
We've had graduates who come to us who are absolutely useless, and others who have gone on to be experts in their fields. But the same can be said about apprentices as well, good and bad in everything.
I also agree that there should be more emphasis on more vocational studies as mentioned by someone else.
Schools shouldn't be teaching RE, maths lessons shouldn't include algebra, what they need to learn about is mortgages and interest rates as an example. |
It does my suede in when I have to discuss options for GCSE. In Wales nearly all subjects are compulsory. My daughter is muddling through three "choices" while having to take many compulsory subjects.
While I really think RE should not be compulsory, I do think it should be renamed ethical and critical thinking as it is so much more than any religious study. I understand the importance of Welsh in our schools but should it be compulsory?
My daughter wants to study at a top university and is so focussed I have no doubt she will. All the points made above about degrees being worthwhile are not going to be a problem. My son, however, needs to be pushed and I think it will be a waste of his time if he chooses university next year. There are option out there post "A" level and not pissing it up at uni for three years will do him so much more service. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:47 - Feb 5 with 3743 views | Lohengrin |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:41 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
Employers like graduates with science degrees as they feel it evidences an ability to analyse and problem solve .
Maths ,physics,Chemistry still seen as Best |
Alternatively, Perch. if you were to go before an officers' selection board for the Brigade of Guards you'd be expected to come bearing two essentials - an Oxbridge Classics degree and the ability to assert a gentlemanly posture on horseback.
Being possessed of a private income and heritor to at least a Baronetcy would also be pointers in your favour.
Another world, Perch. One with swagger....
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:52 - Feb 5 with 3739 views | Lohengrin |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:37 - Feb 5 by jack_lord |
It does my suede in when I have to discuss options for GCSE. In Wales nearly all subjects are compulsory. My daughter is muddling through three "choices" while having to take many compulsory subjects.
While I really think RE should not be compulsory, I do think it should be renamed ethical and critical thinking as it is so much more than any religious study. I understand the importance of Welsh in our schools but should it be compulsory?
My daughter wants to study at a top university and is so focussed I have no doubt she will. All the points made above about degrees being worthwhile are not going to be a problem. My son, however, needs to be pushed and I think it will be a waste of his time if he chooses university next year. There are option out there post "A" level and not pissing it up at uni for three years will do him so much more service. |
" It does my suede in when I have to discuss options for GCSE.
There's a cure for that...  
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:05 - Feb 5 with 3726 views | exhmrc1 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:37 - Feb 5 by jack_lord |
It does my suede in when I have to discuss options for GCSE. In Wales nearly all subjects are compulsory. My daughter is muddling through three "choices" while having to take many compulsory subjects.
While I really think RE should not be compulsory, I do think it should be renamed ethical and critical thinking as it is so much more than any religious study. I understand the importance of Welsh in our schools but should it be compulsory?
My daughter wants to study at a top university and is so focussed I have no doubt she will. All the points made above about degrees being worthwhile are not going to be a problem. My son, however, needs to be pushed and I think it will be a waste of his time if he chooses university next year. There are option out there post "A" level and not pissing it up at uni for three years will do him so much more service. |
i agree many of the GCSE compulsory subjects are unnecessary and pointless. re, welsh back and the new maths numeracy are totally pointless and not valued by many top universities. | | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:06 - Feb 5 with 3729 views | jack_lord |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:52 - Feb 5 by Lohengrin |
" It does my suede in when I have to discuss options for GCSE.
There's a cure for that...
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oops lol | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:09 - Feb 5 with 3727 views | jack_lord |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:05 - Feb 5 by exhmrc1 |
i agree many of the GCSE compulsory subjects are unnecessary and pointless. re, welsh back and the new maths numeracy are totally pointless and not valued by many top universities. |
Yes and why can't schools go back to offering single science subjects as options instead of forcing double science and triple science? | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:31 - Feb 5 with 3717 views | yescomeon |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:09 - Feb 5 by jack_lord |
Yes and why can't schools go back to offering single science subjects as options instead of forcing double science and triple science? |
Would have loved that in my, could have ditched that pesky biology sooner.
They need to be teaching coding as a compulsory subject if they aren't already. It is the single most important skill a kid could have coming out of school. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 08:08 - Feb 6 with 3665 views | Professor |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:31 - Feb 5 by yescomeon |
Would have loved that in my, could have ditched that pesky biology sooner.
They need to be teaching coding as a compulsory subject if they aren't already. It is the single most important skill a kid could have coming out of school. |
Some great posts-thanks all.
My final points are
1. Coding-absolutely essential
2. Algebra-if you go above GCSE science it is essential.
3. Useless subjects- I disagree that RE etc. are useless. Even at degree level there is a good argument that 10% of time should be devoted to something entirely different from the main subject. I took a course in philosophy and sociology related to biological sciences which was one of the best things I did in terms of critical thinking. What is not needed is fact regurgitation
4. Degrees suit some, not all. Less prestigious universities can offer excellent teaching often in more vocational areas-Cardiff Met is good for Biomedical Science, Design, Podiatry, Dietetics, Speech and Language therapy and environmental health. The issue is the quality of more academic subjects in basic areas.
Finally to all those with children (like me) taking major exams this year- good luck. Failure in one exam or set of exams is not the end. I know this from my own experience. | | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 09:21 - Feb 6 with 3638 views | perchrockjack |
And thank you Paul.
One of the best threads in years
We can do it.Yes we can | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 09:23 - Feb 6 with 3637 views | JackFish |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:31 - Feb 5 by yescomeon |
Would have loved that in my, could have ditched that pesky biology sooner.
They need to be teaching coding as a compulsory subject if they aren't already. It is the single most important skill a kid could have coming out of school. |
Definitely agree with the last point - I am continually amazed by the amount of computer science graduates who are completely unable to code or understand a problem. |  | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 12:33 - Feb 6 with 3610 views | Yossarian |
Many Universities are now just a self-serving money making racket whose main purpose appears to be saddling young people and parents with huge debt. After all the profusion of pointless courses isn’t going to create the class of entrepreneurs, scientists, engineers and manufacturers that we are going to need without migrant labour propping up our economy. Today’s Graduates might be able to use all forms of social media and IT but their basic English grammar is appalling, they are lost without a calculator and their handwriting is often so immature it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. Efforts to write a standard letter leave me, and my colleagues in tears. Never mind, these things aren’t deemed to be that important- unless you are an Employer. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 14:49 - Feb 6 with 3580 views | swanforthemoney |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:10 - Feb 5 by PozuelosSideys |
I know this to be true, at least to the extent that businesses are going down this line . Maybe not for super high paid/talented stuff like Investment Banking or Traders, but definitely for more of the serious back office stuff like Finance/HR/Compliance etc. The Universities just don't teach the required skillset for a number of roles.
Theres a guy working with me. 24 years old, recent mathematics graduate, highly intelligent guy. But hes been moaning from day 1 that his degree hasn't helped him do this job one bit. Its a financial role, and not once in the 3 years did they even attempt to teach something as basic as excel - youd think they would do that on a maths course, right? Much like many of us, hes learned more in a year of the job than his entire time as a student. Corporates are effectively taking on the role of 'super YTS' these days |
Any maths graduate who can’t teach himself excel from a book in half a day isn’t worth their degree.
( BSc mathematics 2.2 Manchester Uni 1981 ) |  |
| I stand in the North Stand
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:03 - Feb 6 with 3570 views | FieryJack |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 12:33 - Feb 6 by Yossarian |
Many Universities are now just a self-serving money making racket whose main purpose appears to be saddling young people and parents with huge debt. After all the profusion of pointless courses isn’t going to create the class of entrepreneurs, scientists, engineers and manufacturers that we are going to need without migrant labour propping up our economy. Today’s Graduates might be able to use all forms of social media and IT but their basic English grammar is appalling, they are lost without a calculator and their handwriting is often so immature it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. Efforts to write a standard letter leave me, and my colleagues in tears. Never mind, these things aren’t deemed to be that important- unless you are an Employer. |
I can't resist noting that there are several commas and one hyphen missing from your post.
Additionally, your piece would definitely have greater impact if it was broken down into 3 paragraphs.
And your mention of hand-writing reminds me, sadly, of my under-used and rather beautiful German-made, gold-nibbed fountain pen.
Note the deployment of hyphens.
Apart from that, great post. |  | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:08 - Feb 6 with 3565 views | perchrockjack |
Great posting Yossa .
I was trying to say that
Great to see this thread has seen the feck wits bereft of any puerile pisstakes | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:22 - Feb 6 with 3560 views | swanforthemoney |
Many of the graduates with fifty grand of debt will never pay it off. In fact for many of them the debt will increase by several percent per annum.
After a certain time, the debt is written-off if its not been repaid. Who takes the hit ? The taxpayer? [Post edited 6 Feb 2018 15:25]
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| I stand in the North Stand
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:59 - Feb 6 with 3540 views | pikeypaul |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:22 - Feb 6 by swanforthemoney |
Many of the graduates with fifty grand of debt will never pay it off. In fact for many of them the debt will increase by several percent per annum.
After a certain time, the debt is written-off if its not been repaid. Who takes the hit ? The taxpayer? [Post edited 6 Feb 2018 15:25]
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Do not worry .
Corbyn had promised the existing debt is to be written off and everything is for free in the future.
Happy days. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:06 - Feb 6 with 3511 views | FieryJack |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:59 - Feb 6 by pikeypaul |
Do not worry .
Corbyn had promised the existing debt is to be written off and everything is for free in the future.
Happy days. |
Don't knock it - it was free when I went in the 70s.
When I left University my account was overdrawn by 70 quid. Happy days.
The whining taxpayer should see the education of its youth as an investment worth paying. | | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:27 - Feb 6 with 3504 views | monmouth |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 09:23 - Feb 6 by JackFish |
Definitely agree with the last point - I am continually amazed by the amount of computer science graduates who are completely unable to code or understand a problem. |
Is coding 21st century speak for programming? |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 22:31 - Feb 6 with 3477 views | yescomeon |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:27 - Feb 6 by monmouth |
Is coding 21st century speak for programming? |
I think coding is technically the actual writing of the code and programming is the wider formulation of the problem of developing a bit of code, of which the writing is just a part. But I tend to use the two interchangeably. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 23:02 - Feb 6 with 3461 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:59 - Feb 6 by pikeypaul |
Do not worry .
Corbyn had promised the existing debt is to be written off and everything is for free in the future.
Happy days. |
Ah god it's old ground but he didn't promise existing debt to be written off ffs. Saying 'I/we'll sort it' or whatever it was at the very end of one interview with the NME does not equate to that, no matter how it's spun. It was purposefully taken out of context by our abysmal media as they know people will swallow it line and sinker without doing any due diligence. It's pure laziness on both sides, and why they f*cking do it.
The free education in the future was in the Labour manifesto, this is correct.
It's not an issue of cost though, never has been I would suggest. The whole purpose is to endebt our young with £50000 + worth of debt, at 6% interest. If any can justify this 6% when the base rate is so low I'm absolutely all ears.
The Tories, for those who don't know, have been selling off the student loan book in tranches. They've sold off up until 2012 at the moment I believe. These new loans too will be sold off in due course, at a knock off price naturally, so long term private hands will benefit from the repayments. Just another scheme to launder public money into private hands. They'd far rather this than invest in our youngsters; it's pure profiteering, utterly despicable, and should be a national disgrace.
You probably won't read about this in the papers either when it eventually happens. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 07:40 - Feb 7 with 3431 views | Dr_Winston |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:06 - Feb 6 by FieryJack |
Don't knock it - it was free when I went in the 70s.
When I left University my account was overdrawn by 70 quid. Happy days.
The whining taxpayer should see the education of its youth as an investment worth paying. |
The whining student should see their own education and anticipation of enhanced future earnings as something worth investing some of their own cash in, not expect others to pony up for. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 00:01 - Feb 8 with 3359 views | WarwickHunt |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 07:40 - Feb 7 by Dr_Winston |
The whining student should see their own education and anticipation of enhanced future earnings as something worth investing some of their own cash in, not expect others to pony up for. |
Here's another whining (ex)student.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42974641
Cünt. |  | | |
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