| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:19 - Jun 26 with 1879 views | Dr_Winston |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:14 - Jun 26 by WarwickHunt |
OK - name the extras.  |
There were various Buthelezis involved. That's as far as I go. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:20 - Jun 26 with 1876 views | E20Jack |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:17 - Jun 26 by moonie |
Guilt in spades.
It's what this is about.
Pure and simple
Plenty like Di Abbott wanting Britain to compensate financially countries Britain " robbed"
Di s been quiet of late |
Do you feel guilt about what the Germans did in World War 2?
They were as Caucasian as you can get. Or do you only have to feel guilt if another person completely unconnected to you did something that also happens to come from the same bit of land your mum squeezed you out on?
Should men feel guilty for the Yorkshire ripper and other male murderers? Should women feel guilty about Myra Hindley and other female murderers? Should our nations children feel guilty for the murder of James Bulger and other awful crimes commited by children? Or is it only when you turn 18 that you then harbour the guilt of other people’s actions completely not connected to you?
Do you also feel pride in the fact that caucasians have done more to abolish slavery than any other race? A concept that has origins that stretch far further and long before the relatively short period of time everyone knows about prior to the civil war?
I take the common sense approach and am neither proud or guilty of other people’s actions that have no connection or responsibility to me. I am responsible for my own not people that share the same skin colour, hair colour or taste in beer. It’s astonishingly senseless to feel anything else surely? [Post edited 26 Jun 2018 22:40]
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 23:16 - Jun 26 with 1803 views | jeza739 |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:12 - Jun 26 by Dr_Winston |
Nope.
Sorry. Zulu is my absolute favourite film of all time and I get terribly geeky about it. |
Ditto.
Lived in Brecon as a kid. Every yr on the anniversary of the battle in January the local cinema showed the film. I insisted on going every night. Got the DVD and love watching it. Prob seen it over 100 times!
Also feel a connection as descendants of 623 Williams who was awarded VC for his bravery in the hospital knew my fathers family so i feel a double connection to it |  | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 05:45 - Jun 27 with 1725 views | E20Jack |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 21:45 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
So how about we agree that the film isn’t racist in and of itself, it is after all simply a fictionalised account of some historical events. But the events upon which the film is based were absolutely based on the belief that the white race was superior to those with a darker skin hue, be they African or Asian. That was after all at the heart of the UK’s empire building. |
This is also nonsense. The British empire was not driven by any race issue, it was a desire for expansion of their territory and their financial clout.
They were also at war with Spain, Holland and France. But that doesn't count clearly as they aren't brown enough.
Racism existed in bucket loads of course, but it would be inaccurate to say the drive to colonise was racially motivated - which is the fallback point after we have established the movie is not racist. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 06:57 - Jun 27 with 1695 views | peenemunde |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 05:45 - Jun 27 by E20Jack |
This is also nonsense. The British empire was not driven by any race issue, it was a desire for expansion of their territory and their financial clout.
They were also at war with Spain, Holland and France. But that doesn't count clearly as they aren't brown enough.
Racism existed in bucket loads of course, but it would be inaccurate to say the drive to colonise was racially motivated - which is the fallback point after we have established the movie is not racist. |
Maybe you should look up British Israelism. |  | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 07:05 - Jun 27 with 1692 views | peenemunde |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 21:45 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
So how about we agree that the film isn’t racist in and of itself, it is after all simply a fictionalised account of some historical events. But the events upon which the film is based were absolutely based on the belief that the white race was superior to those with a darker skin hue, be they African or Asian. That was after all at the heart of the UK’s empire building. |
The word you use “fictionalised” is wrong because the battle did take place.
Of course there is some artistic license involved, but fiction definitely not. | | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 07:53 - Jun 27 with 1668 views | moonie |
E20. Frankly, a quite ludicrous analogy.
To answer your question,personally, I feel no guilt although born bred Welsh.
I was offering the view that guilt is the reason SOME feel this way about a film.
It's often political posturing,which I detest.
Although, we had no right to " expand" into other countries ,without question many African natives were better off,no doubt because the Colonialists were better than tribal war fare,which we are seeing now in Nigeria | | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 09:34 - Jun 27 with 1636 views | Townhill_Hilton |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 22:17 - Jun 26 by moonie |
Guilt in spades.
It's what this is about.
Pure and simple
Plenty like Di Abbott wanting Britain to compensate financially countries Britain " robbed"
Di s been quiet of late |
Watched the film on my 62nd birthday, a fortnight ago, Loved it once again, for the drama, the amazing war scenes, and the respect given to the Zulu warriors all the way through the film. It is an old fashioned epic, but there is absolutely no derision to the Zulu warriors, none at all. It was a heroic episode in our history, and that it was embelished is a known fact. It is a work of art. Not a documentary. And all those post modernist idiots who want to reimagine history fail to understand is that all history is about creating wealth and defending wealth, it is our addiction to growth, as the evolutionary biologists point out, and unless you are prepared to go to the root cause for all conflict, you are just making ill-informed noise - chatter. |  | | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 10:52 - Jun 27 with 1591 views | WarwickHunt |
Heh...
Just read this thread sitting on a balcony in the Puglian sunshine. Went back to my book - Playmates ( a Spenser novel by the wonderful Robert B. Parker - read him if haven’t already) and on very next page ...
“Later there was a movie on cable, Zulu, one of my favourites”,
Spooky or what? Anyway, case rested. |  | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 11:16 - Jun 27 with 1574 views | E20Jack |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 07:53 - Jun 27 by moonie |
E20. Frankly, a quite ludicrous analogy.
To answer your question,personally, I feel no guilt although born bred Welsh.
I was offering the view that guilt is the reason SOME feel this way about a film.
It's often political posturing,which I detest.
Although, we had no right to " expand" into other countries ,without question many African natives were better off,no doubt because the Colonialists were better than tribal war fare,which we are seeing now in Nigeria |
Its not a ridiculous analogy, not really an analogy as a direct equivelant. But agree it is ridiculous, and it’s sad it has to be moved to gender or sex before people realise group identity blame is a flawed concept.
Some people may mistakenly and tragically feel guilt, but that will be in most cases due to the societal pressure to do so with such outrage as banning modern day film and other works with the implication of racist bigotry.
It’s abhorrent. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 12:00 - Jun 27 with 1547 views | Lord_Bony |
Have to be thankful I ve sold a lot of large framed canvas and photo prints of these two images through my business over the years. The interest from the general public of South Wales is still huge.
The Defence of Rourkes Drift
The Battle of Islandwana
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 13:31 - Jun 27 with 1496 views | moonie |
Well,I think it is so there we have it.
Dove in Puglia | | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 14:24 - Jun 27 with 1467 views | Darran |
It’s a shame people didn’t feel guilt for attacking and beating up Welsh miners during the miners strike of the eighties. |  |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 15:01 - Jun 27 with 1436 views | SilverSurfer |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 14:24 - Jun 27 by Darran |
It’s a shame people didn’t feel guilt for attacking and beating up Welsh miners during the miners strike of the eighties. |
they cant virtue signal over that |  | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:13 - Jun 27 with 1368 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 05:45 - Jun 27 by E20Jack |
This is also nonsense. The British empire was not driven by any race issue, it was a desire for expansion of their territory and their financial clout.
They were also at war with Spain, Holland and France. But that doesn't count clearly as they aren't brown enough.
Racism existed in bucket loads of course, but it would be inaccurate to say the drive to colonise was racially motivated - which is the fallback point after we have established the movie is not racist. |
Right so the empire wasn’t driving by a widespread view of racial superiority, despite all the evidence and writings to the contrary.
You’re entitled to your opinion. |  |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:14 - Jun 27 with 1365 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 07:05 - Jun 27 by peenemunde |
The word you use “fictionalised” is wrong because the battle did take place.
Of course there is some artistic license involved, but fiction definitely not. |
And you don’t know what “fictionalised” means. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:19 - Jun 27 with 1360 views | peenemunde |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:14 - Jun 27 by exiledclaseboy |
And you don’t know what “fictionalised” means. |
I know what it means and I know what you were trying to say.
A glorious British victory and you want to discredit it. | | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:24 - Jun 27 with 1356 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:19 - Jun 27 by peenemunde |
I know what it means and I know what you were trying to say.
A glorious British victory and you want to discredit it. |
Ooh nice straw man. I meant to say exactly what I said. The film is a fictionalised account based on real events. That’s not to say the battle didn’t happen or that Britain didn’t win it. Those are both matters of historical fact. If you knew what fictionalised meant you’d understand that but it’s you so I’ll make allowances. I’ve no interest in or desire to discredit anything, least of all the outcome of a battle that took place over a century ago which is now entirely irrelevant. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 20:01 - Jun 27 with 1328 views | peenemunde |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:24 - Jun 27 by exiledclaseboy |
Ooh nice straw man. I meant to say exactly what I said. The film is a fictionalised account based on real events. That’s not to say the battle didn’t happen or that Britain didn’t win it. Those are both matters of historical fact. If you knew what fictionalised meant you’d understand that but it’s you so I’ll make allowances. I’ve no interest in or desire to discredit anything, least of all the outcome of a battle that took place over a century ago which is now entirely irrelevant. |
You have no intention of discrediting anything ? Brexit, Donald Trump there two for you. | | | |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 20:38 - Jun 27 with 1299 views | E20Jack |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 19:13 - Jun 27 by exiledclaseboy |
Right so the empire wasn’t driving by a widespread view of racial superiority, despite all the evidence and writings to the contrary.
You’re entitled to your opinion. |
You are saying two things there and passing it off as the same thing.
Are you claiming that the Empire was racist? (Not just the empire but nearly all of civilisation, integration was a new concept). Or are you claiming that the British desire to create an empire was because of racism as opposed to wanting to expand its territories?
The first one is correct, but not what anyone is discussing. The second one is incorrect.
So if you want your pound of racist flesh then probably best to pick up and run with the first one. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 20:50 - Jun 27 with 1287 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 20:38 - Jun 27 by E20Jack |
You are saying two things there and passing it off as the same thing.
Are you claiming that the Empire was racist? (Not just the empire but nearly all of civilisation, integration was a new concept). Or are you claiming that the British desire to create an empire was because of racism as opposed to wanting to expand its territories?
The first one is correct, but not what anyone is discussing. The second one is incorrect.
So if you want your pound of racist flesh then probably best to pick up and run with the first one. |
I have no idea what you’re talking about. My point, which I’ve made twice, was perfectly clear. But I know from long experience that “debating” with you is an endless task full of obfuscation and misdirection so I’ll leave it at you being entitled to your opinion. Enjoy the last word. | |
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 21:18 - Jun 27 with 1245 views | E20Jack |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 20:50 - Jun 27 by exiledclaseboy |
I have no idea what you’re talking about. My point, which I’ve made twice, was perfectly clear. But I know from long experience that “debating” with you is an endless task full of obfuscation and misdirection so I’ll leave it at you being entitled to your opinion. Enjoy the last word. |
And funnily enough I could have typed your response almost word for word before you did. It’s the typical flat pack response for someone who had realised they are not correct. Shaky does the same, will happily engage until it dawns in him he is wrong then he blames you for something and gets out of dodge.
There is no misdirection. You claimed the driving force behind the British Empire was racism.
You are wrong.
The driving force behind the Empire was an expansion of territories.
That cannot be clear enough and as simple and honest a debate as you could imagine. Stop being so disingenuous. You are better than that - or so we are led to believe on here. Not often you show it though.
If you don’t want to debate a subject then you really are in the wrong place and peddling mis truths is only going to lead to people questioning your position - so you aren’t helping yourself there. [Post edited 27 Jun 2018 21:22]
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| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 21:32 - Jun 27 with 1230 views | Shaky |
| Calls to axe 'racist' Zulu film on 21:18 - Jun 27 by E20Jack |
And funnily enough I could have typed your response almost word for word before you did. It’s the typical flat pack response for someone who had realised they are not correct. Shaky does the same, will happily engage until it dawns in him he is wrong then he blames you for something and gets out of dodge.
There is no misdirection. You claimed the driving force behind the British Empire was racism.
You are wrong.
The driving force behind the Empire was an expansion of territories.
That cannot be clear enough and as simple and honest a debate as you could imagine. Stop being so disingenuous. You are better than that - or so we are led to believe on here. Not often you show it though.
If you don’t want to debate a subject then you really are in the wrong place and peddling mis truths is only going to lead to people questioning your position - so you aren’t helping yourself there. [Post edited 27 Jun 2018 21:22]
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"Our duty -our vocation is not to enslave, but to set free; and I may say without any vainglorious boast, or without great offence to anyone, that we stand at the head of moral, social and political civilisation. Our task is to lead the way and direct the march of other nations'"
--Lord Palmerston, 1848
Now why don't you amuse us all by lecturing us extensively on why Palmerston - Foreign Secretary at the time - didn't know what he was talking about? |  |
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