| Negative views and match attendance 23:35 - Sep 12 with 6903 views | WalterBoyd |
Just curious if there is a link. Someone posted earlier that most negative views are from fans who don't actually attend matches. I am unsure.
Onehunglow, Dwight , Dr Parnassuss , Shingle and AndyCole.
Out of the 5 of you, do any of you attend any Swans matches. How often ?
It's great to have the negative input, for every ying needs a yang and keeps us all on our toes.
I am genuinely curious if there is a link to fans not attending matches having a more negative view to the managers approach.
Your input is much appreciated. |  | | |  |
| Negative views and match attendance on 14:19 - Sep 15 with 605 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 13:56 - Sep 15 by Treforys_Jack |
Who manages the coaches ? |
The head coach who is in constant communication with the sports science and fitness testing team, who report the areas players are lacking in fitness wise. |  |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 14:47 - Sep 15 with 592 views | WalterBoyd |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:45 - Sep 15 by AndyCole |
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Oh dear Walter, you showed so much early promise, esp your initial cynicism of the current regime.
You said you were new here. If you look back over the past two terms you'll see that the cleverer rational thinkers were the only ones supporting our ongoing upward trajectory. Always supportive of our efforts, against a groundswell of the emotional unthinking. Only around 10% of us were supportive, always positively, rationally fighting the corner of our achievements. The 90% ranted and raved, week in week out. It was quite frankly embarrassing. Some would say they only come on this forum " for a Moan".
This term, quite bizarrely (or not) the unthinking are now blindly supportive of our failures. It's a herd mentality thing for sure.
You really couldn't make it up. How on earth the individuals in the flock are unable or unwilling to think clearly for themselves is such an eye opener.
Re the OP - I mainly watch our games in the stadium (East Nth East), and always in our Box, and on telly/streaming when I can't make it. My current preference is the Box, and on the box (the East Nth East is becoming diluted with disaffected seasoned season ticket holders selling their tickets per game).
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Thanks for the reply,I read that as you watch more on tele than live at the moment.
Sad and disappointed to hear - "that the East Nth East is becoming diluted with disaffected seasoned season ticket holders selling their tickets per game)."
It's still early days. I think I personally the reason I maybe showing more patience than some is that the enjoyment of returning to the stadium, after so long kept out due to covid, is helping overall matchday experience.
Perhaps if I didn't go to see the home matches, I may be more frustrated and less patient with the results. Who knows.
I really hope there is a good atmosphere tonight, would be greatly helped by an early goal for us. At the very least, not an early goal against us , don't want fans getting restless / quiet in the stands. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:29 - Sep 15 with 520 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 11:51 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Fans and supporters all come under the same bracket for me, if you believe they are different then I will happily listen to your reasoning and reassess the wording if it requires.
If ''supporters'' had to have blind faith and be happy in every situation then this forum wouldn't have very many at all, last year was embarrassing in terms of support for a side that was doing so well.
All managers are new at one point, they all get a transition period to perfect their style. But during that time they still need to be providing acceptable results, especially when we have spent so much money (2nd highest ever football league spend in the clubs history).
Anyone refusing to face reality due to a desire to save face because what they have been calling for isn't working, is not a real fan in my eyes. No time for them.
It is a shame you think stats have ruined the game. Usually its due to people not being able to get away with a skewed narrative anymore. That's why they are so vital to most clubs, the more successful the greater the stats department and reliance on them.
People often say they dislike stats, then reel off ''possession '', ''we had x shots on target''... they only dont like them when it shows something they dont like. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 12:08]
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Stats and “skewed narratives”, eh?
Last season under Cooper -
1.15 xG - 17th best attack in Championship
1.28 xGA - 8th best defence in Championship
MK Dons last season under Martin -
1.44 xG - 8th best attack in League One
1.14 xGA - 4th best defence in League One
In other words, the stats say we were expected to give up far more goals than we were expected to score last season, and we “massively overperformed” mostly due to sheer luck. Statistically, we were barely a mid-table club. You can read the linked article below “How Swansea City are defying all metrics en route to the Premier League” for detail, but even that was written at the beginning of February before everything came crashing down for Cooper, and our results started aligning more with the underlying data shortly after.
MK Dons experienced the opposite, relatively underperforming their data as a result of bad luck and poor finishing. Statistically, they were one of the best teams in the division. The stats are clear, Martin’s team stats were far better than Cooper’s, both as standalone figures and in comparison with the clubs they were competing against. One would think you’d be banging that statistical drum, no?
And just for “historical” context -
2018-19 under Potter
1.45 xG - 6th best attack in Championship
1.29 xGA - 11th best defence in Championship
Above is the statistical reality. What was that about people not liking stats “when it shows something they dont like”? Don’t backtrack now and no essay necessary. Just admit you’re wrong and heavily “skewing the narrative”, and then move on. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:31 - Sep 15 with 515 views | Rock |
https://totalfootballanalysis.
Key quotes -
“One of the strangest teams this season in terms of outperforming analytics is the Championship’s Swansea City. Without looking at their league position, one would think that the Welsh team were just above mid-table or perhaps just a small bit higher.”
“Looking at the expected points table, the Welsh team should only have 39 points this season, rounded up from 38.6. This means that they are overperforming in the league by over 11 points, a huge number. If their expected points total was a reality, the Swans would only be 8th, joint with two other teams also.”
“They are massively overperforming their expected goals against (xGA) of 25.56, over 10 goals more than they have actually conceded.” | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:35 - Sep 15 with 506 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:29 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Stats and “skewed narratives”, eh?
Last season under Cooper -
1.15 xG - 17th best attack in Championship
1.28 xGA - 8th best defence in Championship
MK Dons last season under Martin -
1.44 xG - 8th best attack in League One
1.14 xGA - 4th best defence in League One
In other words, the stats say we were expected to give up far more goals than we were expected to score last season, and we “massively overperformed” mostly due to sheer luck. Statistically, we were barely a mid-table club. You can read the linked article below “How Swansea City are defying all metrics en route to the Premier League” for detail, but even that was written at the beginning of February before everything came crashing down for Cooper, and our results started aligning more with the underlying data shortly after.
MK Dons experienced the opposite, relatively underperforming their data as a result of bad luck and poor finishing. Statistically, they were one of the best teams in the division. The stats are clear, Martin’s team stats were far better than Cooper’s, both as standalone figures and in comparison with the clubs they were competing against. One would think you’d be banging that statistical drum, no?
And just for “historical” context -
2018-19 under Potter
1.45 xG - 6th best attack in Championship
1.29 xGA - 11th best defence in Championship
Above is the statistical reality. What was that about people not liking stats “when it shows something they dont like”? Don’t backtrack now and no essay necessary. Just admit you’re wrong and heavily “skewing the narrative”, and then move on. |
Well found 😂
And this is why I don’t like the overuse of stats in football. They can be used to manipulate an argument if you have the time and inclination to look deep.
I feel like one of the old scouts on Moneyball |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:37 - Sep 15 with 504 views | Catullus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:29 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Stats and “skewed narratives”, eh?
Last season under Cooper -
1.15 xG - 17th best attack in Championship
1.28 xGA - 8th best defence in Championship
MK Dons last season under Martin -
1.44 xG - 8th best attack in League One
1.14 xGA - 4th best defence in League One
In other words, the stats say we were expected to give up far more goals than we were expected to score last season, and we “massively overperformed” mostly due to sheer luck. Statistically, we were barely a mid-table club. You can read the linked article below “How Swansea City are defying all metrics en route to the Premier League” for detail, but even that was written at the beginning of February before everything came crashing down for Cooper, and our results started aligning more with the underlying data shortly after.
MK Dons experienced the opposite, relatively underperforming their data as a result of bad luck and poor finishing. Statistically, they were one of the best teams in the division. The stats are clear, Martin’s team stats were far better than Cooper’s, both as standalone figures and in comparison with the clubs they were competing against. One would think you’d be banging that statistical drum, no?
And just for “historical” context -
2018-19 under Potter
1.45 xG - 6th best attack in Championship
1.29 xGA - 11th best defence in Championship
Above is the statistical reality. What was that about people not liking stats “when it shows something they dont like”? Don’t backtrack now and no essay necessary. Just admit you’re wrong and heavily “skewing the narrative”, and then move on. |
Skewing the narrative or, in my own words, determined to be negative and talk Martin down without giving him a fair chance! | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:43 - Sep 15 with 486 views | Catullus |
Well then, you don't have to read any further to understand where AndyCole is coming from...
Oh dear Walter, you showed so much early promise, esp your initial cynicism of the current regime.
He is not a fan or a supporter of SCFC, he's a WUM, he rejoices in the thought of us failing. He's more likely to be a bluebird than a Jack! | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:44 - Sep 15 with 485 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:13 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I disagree, many seem happy with it. Someone said to me on another thread that we have got acceptable results so far (?!).
Again, I don’t buy into the “massive changes” narrative. It’s a massive change for the supporter, but the players are new. It’s no different to when Cooper came here having to implement his style with the ones he inherited and then bring in the players he wanted. Martin has 4 legacy players in the starting 11 from the Cooper era, the rest he has brought in himself.
In Coopers first 6 games he won 5 of them and drew the other. His very first game was ironically against Hull. We won 2-1, 19 shots and 64% possession with nearly 600 passes. And there was no Ayew either before you say it.
So Cooper was a new manager, lost key players, changed the style… yet was still able to get results on the board as he was developing that style.
Why can’t Martin? And why shouldn’t we be disappointed that he hasn’t been able to? |
So, essentially, you waste thousands upon thousands of words “skewing the narrative” and arguing endlessly on a football forum because you fail to understand why everyone else doesn’t think like you? That is very strange, to say the least.
But yes, “massive changes” for the players Martin has had to work with during his short tenure with us. Preston, Bristol - 8 “legacy players”, Stoke, Sheffield - 9 “legacy players”, Blackburn - 10 “legacy players”. That’s all our games until now, but the last one. Martin has several new players at his disposal now, but still there were 5 “legacy players” in the Hull XI. So he had “his” players for one game, which we dominated in every way statistically and aesthetically, and were unlucky not to win by multiple goals. Hull drew with Bournemouth the game before us, and beat Preston 4-1 away opening weekend. They’re a decent team, with several good players. This is the reality.
Cooper’s system wasn’t built on shots, possession or passes, any true Swans fan could tell you that. The stats you used for the game listed were not typical of how he set his teams out to play, but they were typical for how Potter sets his teams out to play, so no change of style there. You have also unwittingly made the point yourself that Cooper was clearly living off the excellent work Potter put in the previous season. This is the reality. Additionally, no Ayew but Cooper had £15m Borja who scored against Hull and had 5 goals in Cooper’s first 5 matches. This is the reality.
The reality is Martin will get time to imbed his system and tactics in our players and rightly so, the decisionmakers at the club have made that clear from the beginning. Your tired trolling shtick matters not to anyone, trust that. Just strange that someone claiming to be a Swans fan would waste thousands upon thousands of words a day arguing against reality, and constantly creating negative drivel against our current manager while deifying his predecessor who walked out on us a few days before the season started. | | | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:46 - Sep 15 with 476 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:29 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Stats and “skewed narratives”, eh?
Last season under Cooper -
1.15 xG - 17th best attack in Championship
1.28 xGA - 8th best defence in Championship
MK Dons last season under Martin -
1.44 xG - 8th best attack in League One
1.14 xGA - 4th best defence in League One
In other words, the stats say we were expected to give up far more goals than we were expected to score last season, and we “massively overperformed” mostly due to sheer luck. Statistically, we were barely a mid-table club. You can read the linked article below “How Swansea City are defying all metrics en route to the Premier League” for detail, but even that was written at the beginning of February before everything came crashing down for Cooper, and our results started aligning more with the underlying data shortly after.
MK Dons experienced the opposite, relatively underperforming their data as a result of bad luck and poor finishing. Statistically, they were one of the best teams in the division. The stats are clear, Martin’s team stats were far better than Cooper’s, both as standalone figures and in comparison with the clubs they were competing against. One would think you’d be banging that statistical drum, no?
And just for “historical” context -
2018-19 under Potter
1.45 xG - 6th best attack in Championship
1.29 xGA - 11th best defence in Championship
Above is the statistical reality. What was that about people not liking stats “when it shows something they dont like”? Don’t backtrack now and no essay necessary. Just admit you’re wrong and heavily “skewing the narrative”, and then move on. |
Yes skewed stats and narratives.
What are you suggesting I am wrong about exactly?
Expected goals and expected goals against are simply predictions based on shots. It does not determine “best” anything, that is your lack of understanding of the statistics you are reading.
The lower your possession the lower your XG tends to be and the higher your XGA tends to be. But they are predictions, incorrect ones in our case and not fact based statistics.
It’s a bizarre stat to put importance on, more akin to fantasy football enthusiasts looking for their double points captain choice for the next game week than an actual statistic that shows anything of any note, because it is based on something that hasn’t happened yet.
Due to the prominence of fantasy football, I would imagine this is what the article has stumbled upon and decided it would be an interesting piece to write.
It has very little analytical value though. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:49 - Sep 15 with 466 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:35 - Sep 15 by PatchesOHoulihan |
Well found 😂
And this is why I don’t like the overuse of stats in football. They can be used to manipulate an argument if you have the time and inclination to look deep.
I feel like one of the old scouts on Moneyball |
They aren’t stats, they are predictions. Incorrect ones as it turned out.
But your reaction proves my point.
I post actual statistics of events that factually happened, you dislike it because it shows something you don’t like. Someone posts some incorrect predictions which you feel be more in keeping with how you wish to view things and you praise it.
That’s my point in a nutshell.
I am not being negative, nothing is being manipulated - it is literally what has happened this season thus far. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 17:50 - Sep 15 with 471 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:46 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes skewed stats and narratives.
What are you suggesting I am wrong about exactly?
Expected goals and expected goals against are simply predictions based on shots. It does not determine “best” anything, that is your lack of understanding of the statistics you are reading.
The lower your possession the lower your XG tends to be and the higher your XGA tends to be. But they are predictions, incorrect ones in our case and not fact based statistics.
It’s a bizarre stat to put importance on, more akin to fantasy football enthusiasts looking for their double points captain choice for the next game week than an actual statistic that shows anything of any note, because it is based on something that hasn’t happened yet.
Due to the prominence of fantasy football, I would imagine this is what the article has stumbled upon and decided it would be an interesting piece to write.
It has very little analytical value though. |
So those are stats you don't agree with. 🤔 |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:50 - Sep 15 with 471 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 13:40 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
To a team competing extremely well in the Premier League yes, netting us £20m in the process for getting to the Final.
Excellent achievement for the club.
As I said, fitness is the coaches job not the managers. |
It definitely was a massive achievement for a team that played so negatively.
And the manager is in overall charge of planning the pre season so it was on coopers head, now as I've said whether he was told not to bother from the time he was told he wasn't wanted or he couldn't be bothered we will never know. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:52 - Sep 15 with 468 views | Catullus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:44 - Sep 15 by Rock |
So, essentially, you waste thousands upon thousands of words “skewing the narrative” and arguing endlessly on a football forum because you fail to understand why everyone else doesn’t think like you? That is very strange, to say the least.
But yes, “massive changes” for the players Martin has had to work with during his short tenure with us. Preston, Bristol - 8 “legacy players”, Stoke, Sheffield - 9 “legacy players”, Blackburn - 10 “legacy players”. That’s all our games until now, but the last one. Martin has several new players at his disposal now, but still there were 5 “legacy players” in the Hull XI. So he had “his” players for one game, which we dominated in every way statistically and aesthetically, and were unlucky not to win by multiple goals. Hull drew with Bournemouth the game before us, and beat Preston 4-1 away opening weekend. They’re a decent team, with several good players. This is the reality.
Cooper’s system wasn’t built on shots, possession or passes, any true Swans fan could tell you that. The stats you used for the game listed were not typical of how he set his teams out to play, but they were typical for how Potter sets his teams out to play, so no change of style there. You have also unwittingly made the point yourself that Cooper was clearly living off the excellent work Potter put in the previous season. This is the reality. Additionally, no Ayew but Cooper had £15m Borja who scored against Hull and had 5 goals in Cooper’s first 5 matches. This is the reality.
The reality is Martin will get time to imbed his system and tactics in our players and rightly so, the decisionmakers at the club have made that clear from the beginning. Your tired trolling shtick matters not to anyone, trust that. Just strange that someone claiming to be a Swans fan would waste thousands upon thousands of words a day arguing against reality, and constantly creating negative drivel against our current manager while deifying his predecessor who walked out on us a few days before the season started. |
Excellent post and it says everything I would like to say just better than I would have said it!
This 'deifying'of Cooper is absurd and, as you demonstrate, wrong. I hope tonight is the first step on the road to shoving these anti SCFC opinions down the throats of the naysayers.
A win tonight, a clean sheet and more stats that back up that we have measurably improved again! | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:00 - Sep 15 with 451 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:44 - Sep 15 by Rock |
So, essentially, you waste thousands upon thousands of words “skewing the narrative” and arguing endlessly on a football forum because you fail to understand why everyone else doesn’t think like you? That is very strange, to say the least.
But yes, “massive changes” for the players Martin has had to work with during his short tenure with us. Preston, Bristol - 8 “legacy players”, Stoke, Sheffield - 9 “legacy players”, Blackburn - 10 “legacy players”. That’s all our games until now, but the last one. Martin has several new players at his disposal now, but still there were 5 “legacy players” in the Hull XI. So he had “his” players for one game, which we dominated in every way statistically and aesthetically, and were unlucky not to win by multiple goals. Hull drew with Bournemouth the game before us, and beat Preston 4-1 away opening weekend. They’re a decent team, with several good players. This is the reality.
Cooper’s system wasn’t built on shots, possession or passes, any true Swans fan could tell you that. The stats you used for the game listed were not typical of how he set his teams out to play, but they were typical for how Potter sets his teams out to play, so no change of style there. You have also unwittingly made the point yourself that Cooper was clearly living off the excellent work Potter put in the previous season. This is the reality. Additionally, no Ayew but Cooper had £15m Borja who scored against Hull and had 5 goals in Cooper’s first 5 matches. This is the reality.
The reality is Martin will get time to imbed his system and tactics in our players and rightly so, the decisionmakers at the club have made that clear from the beginning. Your tired trolling shtick matters not to anyone, trust that. Just strange that someone claiming to be a Swans fan would waste thousands upon thousands of words a day arguing against reality, and constantly creating negative drivel against our current manager while deifying his predecessor who walked out on us a few days before the season started. |
No narrative is being skewed, can you point to where? It has nothing to do with “thinking like me” and everything to do with accuracy, factual accuracy.
I completely disagree, they aren’t massive changes, it is normal changes faced by most new managers that come in and change the style. Cooper did it extremely well for example, the style was completely different to Potter, had to impart that to 7 new players and 4 legacy players that became even greater when further players were lost as the season progressed.
£15m Borja is a bit of a misleading comment isn’t it. He was £15m when we bought him, free when he left - still under contract… who then left them for free. He had very little value when Cooper had him.
Who said Coopers system was built on shots or possession? I am afraid you verbiage is as senseless as it is poorly thought out, you are replying to things that have not been said or are indeed irrelevant to the points laid out.
Martin will get time to turn it around yes, I don’t think anyone has advocated against it have they? If so I’d be interested to see any quotes you have? Unless you are trolling of course? But he won’t be given much time before he is widely critiqued, be that for good or bad performances. Like it or not that is football and Martin is not above the game or indeed above the club, all managers get judged on performances and results and this will be no different.
Just the way it is. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 18:06]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:01 - Sep 15 with 450 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:50 - Sep 15 by Treforys_Jack |
So those are stats you don't agree with. 🤔 |
They aren’t stats, they are predictions, guesses. XG means (expected goals), projections.
Factually incorrect ones at that. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 18:05]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:04 - Sep 15 with 441 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:52 - Sep 15 by Catullus |
Excellent post and it says everything I would like to say just better than I would have said it!
This 'deifying'of Cooper is absurd and, as you demonstrate, wrong. I hope tonight is the first step on the road to shoving these anti SCFC opinions down the throats of the naysayers.
A win tonight, a clean sheet and more stats that back up that we have measurably improved again! |
Which anti SCFC opinions? Do you have any quotes we can look at?
I sense another scenario after our last win where we had threads posted on here pretending posters had said something they didn’t, because people wanted a target to focus their frustrations on.
It got called out and collapsed as quickly as it arrived.
If the post you quoted said everything you wish to say then that makes two of you incorrect, for the reasons I stated.
I must say it’s nice of the poster to actually post something, despite it being incredibly wide of the mark, as opposed to spamming the site with Athletic articles. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:11 - Sep 15 with 429 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:50 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
It definitely was a massive achievement for a team that played so negatively.
And the manager is in overall charge of planning the pre season so it was on coopers head, now as I've said whether he was told not to bother from the time he was told he wasn't wanted or he couldn't be bothered we will never know. |
It’s an excellent achievement for a team that played any kind of way. Potter finished 10th despite spending more in his one season than Cooper spent in his two combined.
No that’s incorrect. The fitness of the squad is the direct responsibility of the fitness coach, who reports to the head coach. The manager has very little to do with the sports science side of the game, with the exception of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal in the early stages of his appointment.
In fact, managers sometimes aren’t even on the training ground in pre season. It’s purely fitness for a while. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:41 - Sep 15 with 401 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:46 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes skewed stats and narratives.
What are you suggesting I am wrong about exactly?
Expected goals and expected goals against are simply predictions based on shots. It does not determine “best” anything, that is your lack of understanding of the statistics you are reading.
The lower your possession the lower your XG tends to be and the higher your XGA tends to be. But they are predictions, incorrect ones in our case and not fact based statistics.
It’s a bizarre stat to put importance on, more akin to fantasy football enthusiasts looking for their double points captain choice for the next game week than an actual statistic that shows anything of any note, because it is based on something that hasn’t happened yet.
Due to the prominence of fantasy football, I would imagine this is what the article has stumbled upon and decided it would be an interesting piece to write.
It has very little analytical value though. |
Yeah, no, read up chap.
You’re massively “skewing the narrative” again. Now you don’t like stats “when it shows something you don’t like”? Ironic, but to expected.
Expected goals are basically the gold standard for analytics, not “fantasy football”. This is well known in reality. I guess you play fantasy football, though. And this “is your lack of understanding of the statistics you are reading.”
StatsPerform - a leading analytics company -
“The metric reflects how we analyse games; the team that creates the higher quality chances is usually who we consider having been ‘the better team’. An xG model gives a quantitative measure to the quality of scoring opportunities and adds additional context to a player or team’s shots that goes beyond raw shot and shot on target totals.
Expected Goals is typically a more consistent measure of performance than actual goals. Whereas goals are relatively rare events that come and go in stretches, a team or player’s xG output tends to fluctuate much less from match-to-match. Clearly the goals that are actually scored are the ones that win points, but xG gives us more context for evaluating team performance.”
Bundesliga - German top flight -
“As well as helping us to assess individual players, xG also enables us to evaluate teams - and to predict future performances.
For example, if a team is performing to a certain level at the start of a new season, a look at their expected goals could reveal whether that run is likely to continue.”
https://www.statsperform.com/r
https://www.goal.com/en/news/e
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/ | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:45 - Sep 15 with 397 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:00 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
No narrative is being skewed, can you point to where? It has nothing to do with “thinking like me” and everything to do with accuracy, factual accuracy.
I completely disagree, they aren’t massive changes, it is normal changes faced by most new managers that come in and change the style. Cooper did it extremely well for example, the style was completely different to Potter, had to impart that to 7 new players and 4 legacy players that became even greater when further players were lost as the season progressed.
£15m Borja is a bit of a misleading comment isn’t it. He was £15m when we bought him, free when he left - still under contract… who then left them for free. He had very little value when Cooper had him.
Who said Coopers system was built on shots or possession? I am afraid you verbiage is as senseless as it is poorly thought out, you are replying to things that have not been said or are indeed irrelevant to the points laid out.
Martin will get time to turn it around yes, I don’t think anyone has advocated against it have they? If so I’d be interested to see any quotes you have? Unless you are trolling of course? But he won’t be given much time before he is widely critiqued, be that for good or bad performances. Like it or not that is football and Martin is not above the game or indeed above the club, all managers get judged on performances and results and this will be no different.
Just the way it is. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 18:06]
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Yeah, just no, massive fail.
I don’t repeat myself like you, and I do other things than sit on here everyday. I laid it out already, you can actually respond to what I’ve said or continue with your trolling “narrative skewing”.
You have taken the latter route, predictable. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:46 - Sep 15 with 390 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:41 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Yeah, no, read up chap.
You’re massively “skewing the narrative” again. Now you don’t like stats “when it shows something you don’t like”? Ironic, but to expected.
Expected goals are basically the gold standard for analytics, not “fantasy football”. This is well known in reality. I guess you play fantasy football, though. And this “is your lack of understanding of the statistics you are reading.”
StatsPerform - a leading analytics company -
“The metric reflects how we analyse games; the team that creates the higher quality chances is usually who we consider having been ‘the better team’. An xG model gives a quantitative measure to the quality of scoring opportunities and adds additional context to a player or team’s shots that goes beyond raw shot and shot on target totals.
Expected Goals is typically a more consistent measure of performance than actual goals. Whereas goals are relatively rare events that come and go in stretches, a team or player’s xG output tends to fluctuate much less from match-to-match. Clearly the goals that are actually scored are the ones that win points, but xG gives us more context for evaluating team performance.”
Bundesliga - German top flight -
“As well as helping us to assess individual players, xG also enables us to evaluate teams - and to predict future performances.
For example, if a team is performing to a certain level at the start of a new season, a look at their expected goals could reveal whether that run is likely to continue.”
https://www.statsperform.com/r
https://www.goal.com/en/news/e
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/ |
No need to read up, I’m in the industry, I know exactly what XG is.
I am not skewing anything “chap”, I am providing stats on things that have happened. You are putting importance on things that haven’t… and subsequently didn’t.
XG is not “gold standard” for anything. It is the go to stat of the fantasy football fan, in fact it’s use in fantasy football is probably at an all time high as people search for captain picks. They are essentially selling confirmation bias, not reality.
Your write up is also incorrect, it is not “quality of chance” it’s “position of chance”, they are massively different and the data used for XG is full of holes.
It is a prediction, not a stat. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:50 - Sep 15 with 384 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:45 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Yeah, just no, massive fail.
I don’t repeat myself like you, and I do other things than sit on here everyday. I laid it out already, you can actually respond to what I’ve said or continue with your trolling “narrative skewing”.
You have taken the latter route, predictable. |
Yeah, and yeah. It’s simply factual, you don’t like it that’s clear - but my posts aren’t designed to make you feel warm and fluffy.
You are trolling by selling predictions, incorrect ones to attempt to disprove reality. You clearly were one of the anti Cooper brigade that have a bit of skin in the game with regards to saving face. I can’t think of any other logical reason that someone would make the ridiculous leaps you have in your posts in this thread.
I will always talk sense and I will never deviate from that regardless of how upset you get by that.
Take that as a gold standard fact if you will. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 18:55 - Sep 15 with 382 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:52 - Sep 15 by Catullus |
Excellent post and it says everything I would like to say just better than I would have said it!
This 'deifying'of Cooper is absurd and, as you demonstrate, wrong. I hope tonight is the first step on the road to shoving these anti SCFC opinions down the throats of the naysayers.
A win tonight, a clean sheet and more stats that back up that we have measurably improved again! |
Cheers, Catallus.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s clear they’re just the forum trolls, though. Logic and reality go out the window when it comes to them.
The performances under Martin have gotten better, this weekend against Hull was dominant, we played some lovely football - one-touch, triangles, overloads, the ball was moved on quickly at pace to the right spots. The players clearly knew where they were supposed to be and the positional play Martin’s system employs was a marvel to watch at times, especially compared to last season. Goes to show how integral pre-season and training are to performances.
All that was missing was the goals and win, but they will come. The stats make that clear. Excited for this season, there will be some bumps along the way but Martin will get his time and we will see the results. Can’t wait for Walsh to come back too, he’s the key to the season for me. But the players brought in by Martin give his system the clear platform to perform, and we saw that this weekend. More to come, surely. Exciting times. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:00 - Sep 15 with 374 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:46 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
No need to read up, I’m in the industry, I know exactly what XG is.
I am not skewing anything “chap”, I am providing stats on things that have happened. You are putting importance on things that haven’t… and subsequently didn’t.
XG is not “gold standard” for anything. It is the go to stat of the fantasy football fan, in fact it’s use in fantasy football is probably at an all time high as people search for captain picks. They are essentially selling confirmation bias, not reality.
Your write up is also incorrect, it is not “quality of chance” it’s “position of chance”, they are massively different and the data used for XG is full of holes.
It is a prediction, not a stat. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. |
“I’m in the industry”. Lol. Sure you are. The industry of bullsh!t.
Again, I’ve posted reality above, not going to repeat myself.
As for the “write-up”, I didn’t write the quotes, obviously. They’re written by someone actually “in the industry”, not a troll on a forum.
Here’s another quote from the linked articles, again, written by someone actually “in the industry” -
“The term xG in football is an abbreviation which stands for 'expected goals'. It is a statistical measurement of the quality of goalscoring chances and the likelihood of them being scored.” | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:02 - Sep 15 with 368 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:55 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Cheers, Catallus.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s clear they’re just the forum trolls, though. Logic and reality go out the window when it comes to them.
The performances under Martin have gotten better, this weekend against Hull was dominant, we played some lovely football - one-touch, triangles, overloads, the ball was moved on quickly at pace to the right spots. The players clearly knew where they were supposed to be and the positional play Martin’s system employs was a marvel to watch at times, especially compared to last season. Goes to show how integral pre-season and training are to performances.
All that was missing was the goals and win, but they will come. The stats make that clear. Excited for this season, there will be some bumps along the way but Martin will get his time and we will see the results. Can’t wait for Walsh to come back too, he’s the key to the season for me. But the players brought in by Martin give his system the clear platform to perform, and we saw that this weekend. More to come, surely. Exciting times. |
Don’t be so silly. You are upset because you have been called out using predictions (incorrect ones) and think they stack up against factual data.
My posts are entirely logical as they are based on fact, yours are just nonsense nothing burgers based on fantasy football xG.
As for your match analysis, I stopped reading after you said we moved the ball on quickly and with pace. I think everyone agreed that was the case regardless of their position on the happiness scale.
What you are upset about is you have clearly slagged off the previous manager and wanted things to go upwards once you got your way. Hasn’t quite worked out so you are scrambling around to tell and who will listen why we should be happy being 20th, unable to beat teams like Hull, winning 1 league game all season - the one the manager said the players went rogue from him to get the win.
Sorry bud. You make trick some of the people some of the time, but you won’t trick all of the people all of the time and you have to get up early in the morning to get nonsense past me. I don’t fancy your chances. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 19:05 - Sep 15 with 361 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:02 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Don’t be so silly. You are upset because you have been called out using predictions (incorrect ones) and think they stack up against factual data.
My posts are entirely logical as they are based on fact, yours are just nonsense nothing burgers based on fantasy football xG.
As for your match analysis, I stopped reading after you said we moved the ball on quickly and with pace. I think everyone agreed that was the case regardless of their position on the happiness scale.
What you are upset about is you have clearly slagged off the previous manager and wanted things to go upwards once you got your way. Hasn’t quite worked out so you are scrambling around to tell and who will listen why we should be happy being 20th, unable to beat teams like Hull, winning 1 league game all season - the one the manager said the players went rogue from him to get the win.
Sorry bud. You make trick some of the people some of the time, but you won’t trick all of the people all of the time and you have to get up early in the morning to get nonsense past me. I don’t fancy your chances. |
Lol. Bueno. | | | |
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