| Negative views and match attendance 23:35 - Sep 12 with 6977 views | WalterBoyd |
Just curious if there is a link. Someone posted earlier that most negative views are from fans who don't actually attend matches. I am unsure.
Onehunglow, Dwight , Dr Parnassuss , Shingle and AndyCole.
Out of the 5 of you, do any of you attend any Swans matches. How often ?
It's great to have the negative input, for every ying needs a yang and keeps us all on our toes.
I am genuinely curious if there is a link to fans not attending matches having a more negative view to the managers approach.
Your input is much appreciated. |  | | |  |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:07 - Sep 15 with 706 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:00 - Sep 15 by Rock |
“I’m in the industry”. Lol. Sure you are. The industry of bullsh!t.
Again, I’ve posted reality above, not going to repeat myself.
As for the “write-up”, I didn’t write the quotes, obviously. They’re written by someone actually “in the industry”, not a troll on a forum.
Here’s another quote from the linked articles, again, written by someone actually “in the industry” -
“The term xG in football is an abbreviation which stands for 'expected goals'. It is a statistical measurement of the quality of goalscoring chances and the likelihood of them being scored.” |
Getting angry now are we? 
No, I build sporting predictive models as part of my living, hence my love of statistics - actual statistics. Many on here know what I do. You can not believe me if it makes you feel better about yourself, I won’t try and convince you.
You have not posted reality, you have done what you usually do on this forum and seek out articles and post them on here as if they are some religious doctrine. You can repeat quotes from these people all you like, they will still be wrong.
Quality of chance is debatable. xG quality of chance is largely determined by pitch position. It’s got more holes in it than your questionable temperament.
Take it from me, if not then continue to be wrong. Your choice. |  |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 19:08 - Sep 15 with 708 views | Rock |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:07 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Getting angry now are we?
No, I build sporting predictive models as part of my living, hence my love of statistics - actual statistics. Many on here know what I do. You can not believe me if it makes you feel better about yourself, I won’t try and convince you.
You have not posted reality, you have done what you usually do on this forum and seek out articles and post them on here as if they are some religious doctrine. You can repeat quotes from these people all you like, they will still be wrong.
Quality of chance is debatable. xG quality of chance is largely determined by pitch position. It’s got more holes in it than your questionable temperament.
Take it from me, if not then continue to be wrong. Your choice. |
Lol. Bueno. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:08 - Sep 15 with 694 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 19:05 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Lol. Bueno. |
Gracias. Amigo. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 20:55 - Sep 15 with 655 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 18:11 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s an excellent achievement for a team that played any kind of way. Potter finished 10th despite spending more in his one season than Cooper spent in his two combined.
No that’s incorrect. The fitness of the squad is the direct responsibility of the fitness coach, who reports to the head coach. The manager has very little to do with the sports science side of the game, with the exception of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal in the early stages of his appointment.
In fact, managers sometimes aren’t even on the training ground in pre season. It’s purely fitness for a while. |
Yes the fitness coach is in charge of their fitness thats why he's called the fitness coach but how do you know that all managers dont have anything to do with that part of the running of the playing side? Some or most managers will want to know how the fitness coach is running his regime as he's a vital part of the team. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:07 - Sep 15 with 633 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 20:55 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
Yes the fitness coach is in charge of their fitness thats why he's called the fitness coach but how do you know that all managers dont have anything to do with that part of the running of the playing side? Some or most managers will want to know how the fitness coach is running his regime as he's a vital part of the team. |
Because they don’t, it’s the remit of the sports science guys and the fitness coaches, they work in tandem.
Seems just another cheap way to try and bash Cooper to be honest. I don’t mind people saying they didn’t enjoy his football, but it’s the myths I can’t stand. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:28 - Sep 15 with 619 views | vetchonian |
Im at the ground and have more negative than postive views about tonight | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:41 - Sep 15 with 596 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:28 - Sep 15 by vetchonian |
Im at the ground and have more negative than postive views about tonight |
Me too and I’m at home.
It’s almost as if we watched the same thing…. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:52 - Sep 15 with 584 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:07 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Because they don’t, it’s the remit of the sports science guys and the fitness coaches, they work in tandem.
Seems just another cheap way to try and bash Cooper to be honest. I don’t mind people saying they didn’t enjoy his football, but it’s the myths I can’t stand. |
So you are saying that the manager has no idea how the fit his players are? I get what you say re the sports science and fitness coaches being in charge but the manager not having any input is laughable, RM was a very good pro footballer who played at the highest level and with him having a veggy restaurant he obviously looked after himself foodwise plus him wanting his team to be mega fit so to fit the type of game he wants to play I'd suspect he will be right in the middle of seeing qhats going on during the fitness sessions especially seeing as we didn't have a pre season.
Effing right I'm going to bash cooper, the football we played was awful, I don't really care that we finished 6th and 4th, we were never ever going to beat brentford lastcseason and them plus fulhamthe season before, if he was that good where is he now? He pimped himself out and guess what? No takers, now that says everything to me. | | | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:57 - Sep 15 with 567 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:52 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
So you are saying that the manager has no idea how the fit his players are? I get what you say re the sports science and fitness coaches being in charge but the manager not having any input is laughable, RM was a very good pro footballer who played at the highest level and with him having a veggy restaurant he obviously looked after himself foodwise plus him wanting his team to be mega fit so to fit the type of game he wants to play I'd suspect he will be right in the middle of seeing qhats going on during the fitness sessions especially seeing as we didn't have a pre season.
Effing right I'm going to bash cooper, the football we played was awful, I don't really care that we finished 6th and 4th, we were never ever going to beat brentford lastcseason and them plus fulhamthe season before, if he was that good where is he now? He pimped himself out and guess what? No takers, now that says everything to me. |
How did you read that and conclude that is what I said?
I said the remit of getting the squad fit is on the fitness coach and the sports science guys. I’m sure the manager gets regular updates on progression.
Like I said bash him til the cows come home if it makes you happy, but do it for real reasons, not made up ones. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:01 - Sep 15 with 573 views | vetchonian |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:29 - Sep 15 by Rock |
Stats and “skewed narratives”, eh?
Last season under Cooper -
1.15 xG - 17th best attack in Championship
1.28 xGA - 8th best defence in Championship
MK Dons last season under Martin -
1.44 xG - 8th best attack in League One
1.14 xGA - 4th best defence in League One
In other words, the stats say we were expected to give up far more goals than we were expected to score last season, and we “massively overperformed” mostly due to sheer luck. Statistically, we were barely a mid-table club. You can read the linked article below “How Swansea City are defying all metrics en route to the Premier League” for detail, but even that was written at the beginning of February before everything came crashing down for Cooper, and our results started aligning more with the underlying data shortly after.
MK Dons experienced the opposite, relatively underperforming their data as a result of bad luck and poor finishing. Statistically, they were one of the best teams in the division. The stats are clear, Martin’s team stats were far better than Cooper’s, both as standalone figures and in comparison with the clubs they were competing against. One would think you’d be banging that statistical drum, no?
And just for “historical” context -
2018-19 under Potter
1.45 xG - 6th best attack in Championship
1.29 xGA - 11th best defence in Championship
Above is the statistical reality. What was that about people not liking stats “when it shows something they dont like”? Don’t backtrack now and no essay necessary. Just admit you’re wrong and heavily “skewing the narrative”, and then move on. |
The only stat that counts is points on the board!
Xg or whatever it is a what if stat......actual shots , golas scored and points achieved are actual data as has been shown there is a huge variance between those when this and last season are compared.
Given XG as you say we should have scored less than we conceded yet the opp[osite was the case but that was down to luck.Martin must have been very unlucky then to have finished midtable gien his suoerior xg
bullsh1t | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:06 - Sep 15 with 562 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:01 - Sep 15 by vetchonian |
The only stat that counts is points on the board!
Xg or whatever it is a what if stat......actual shots , golas scored and points achieved are actual data as has been shown there is a huge variance between those when this and last season are compared.
Given XG as you say we should have scored less than we conceded yet the opp[osite was the case but that was down to luck.Martin must have been very unlucky then to have finished midtable gien his suoerior xg
bullsh1t |
Indeed, there are so many variables involved which makes xG incredibly inaccurate. It’s simply a best guess, which often is wide of the mark - ironically as proven by the article itself.
Why use a “what if” when you have a “did”. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:14 - Sep 15 with 555 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:57 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
How did you read that and conclude that is what I said?
I said the remit of getting the squad fit is on the fitness coach and the sports science guys. I’m sure the manager gets regular updates on progression.
Like I said bash him til the cows come home if it makes you happy, but do it for real reasons, not made up ones. |
So the boring, trite s@#$ we played whilst scraping wins and as many losses when it mattered didn't happen?
And I agreed with you re the purpose of the fitness coach, I think the manager has more input than a few updates on their fitness.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one doc 👠| | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:20 - Sep 15 with 535 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:14 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
So the boring, trite s@#$ we played whilst scraping wins and as many losses when it mattered didn't happen?
And I agreed with you re the purpose of the fitness coach, I think the manager has more input than a few updates on their fitness.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one doc 👠|
Boring to you maybe yeah. If you want to say he won games in a boring way then go for it.
But no need to make other things up.
One thing is for certain, I’d rather be 4th winning games in a boring way than 20th losing and drawing games in a boring way. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:34 - Sep 15 with 528 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:20 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Boring to you maybe yeah. If you want to say he won games in a boring way then go for it.
But no need to make other things up.
One thing is for certain, I’d rather be 4th winning games in a boring way than 20th losing and drawing games in a boring way. |
And to the vast percentage of the swans fans.
We did win games boringly going into our shell after scoring early, this gameplan backfired when we played someone decent, which was a damn shame. We could have finished higher than 4th if we had been positive instead of negative.
And btw what things have I made up? | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:43 - Sep 15 with 510 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:34 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
And to the vast percentage of the swans fans.
We did win games boringly going into our shell after scoring early, this gameplan backfired when we played someone decent, which was a damn shame. We could have finished higher than 4th if we had been positive instead of negative.
And btw what things have I made up? |
It didn’t backfire. We were never beating them, they were way too good for us.
If we went out and attacked them we probably would have lost 6-0.
But I would rather lose 2-0 in the play-off final picking up a cheque for £20m, than scrapping for survival in 20th.
You made up it was Coopers fault that the squad was apparently unfit. It isn’t. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:50 - Sep 15 with 507 views | Catullus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:01 - Sep 15 by vetchonian |
The only stat that counts is points on the board!
Xg or whatever it is a what if stat......actual shots , golas scored and points achieved are actual data as has been shown there is a huge variance between those when this and last season are compared.
Given XG as you say we should have scored less than we conceded yet the opp[osite was the case but that was down to luck.Martin must have been very unlucky then to have finished midtable gien his suoerior xg
bullsh1t |
There isn't a huge variance though. Didn't the stats show an average of 4 shots on target last season, have you seen tonights stats?
12 shots, 4 on target, 64% possession, 616 passes. It is territorially where we are much etter though, we spend a lot of time in the oppo half.
For me the thing we must do is start Piroe AND Obafemi, we looked very much more dangerous with both of them on.
The worst thing tonight was, again, the pace of the game. At times our passing, though keeping possession and accurate, was far too slow. To break teams down it needs more pace and them more movement up front. We did ok until the last third then we ground to a halt, the slow play allowing Millwall to pack their defence.
Then again, I have to mention the referee, what a clown. We had our players fouled and free kicks going the other way, at one point a Wall player went down holding his head, he got up and limped heavily away then the ball came and it was spring chicken mode again. It's blatant cheating. Two home games, two absolutely terrible refs. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 22:52 - Sep 15 with 498 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:50 - Sep 15 by Catullus |
There isn't a huge variance though. Didn't the stats show an average of 4 shots on target last season, have you seen tonights stats?
12 shots, 4 on target, 64% possession, 616 passes. It is territorially where we are much etter though, we spend a lot of time in the oppo half.
For me the thing we must do is start Piroe AND Obafemi, we looked very much more dangerous with both of them on.
The worst thing tonight was, again, the pace of the game. At times our passing, though keeping possession and accurate, was far too slow. To break teams down it needs more pace and them more movement up front. We did ok until the last third then we ground to a halt, the slow play allowing Millwall to pack their defence.
Then again, I have to mention the referee, what a clown. We had our players fouled and free kicks going the other way, at one point a Wall player went down holding his head, he got up and limped heavily away then the ball came and it was spring chicken mode again. It's blatant cheating. Two home games, two absolutely terrible refs. |
Prior to this game there was a 25% shot differential between this season and last at the same point. 25% down year on year. That’s pretty significant. That’s 15 shots for every 20 last season.
It would be similar after this game too. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 22:53]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 23:52 - Sep 15 with 478 views | Fireboy2 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:43 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
It didn’t backfire. We were never beating them, they were way too good for us.
If we went out and attacked them we probably would have lost 6-0.
But I would rather lose 2-0 in the play-off final picking up a cheque for £20m, than scrapping for survival in 20th.
You made up it was Coopers fault that the squad was apparently unfit. It isn’t. |
We were never beating them because cooper drilled all the positivity out of the squad, it was score then batten down the hatches, we beat Norwich and Watford comprehensively then for some stupid reason we went all defensive.
Gotcha, go back and read again, I definitely didn't say that it was coopers fault, i said it could have been his or the clubs fault, was he told to stop managing the two weeks before we all were notified of his departure or did he just not bother because he knew he was going, no one apart from winter and cooper will ever know. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 23:53 - Sep 15 with 477 views | Treforys_Jack |
All I have to say is the lack of intensity during the game was frightening. So many players blowing out of their backsides after an hr, simply not good enough. I watched Bmuff and QPR last night and both look like they will absolutely destroy us. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 23:59 - Sep 15 with 471 views | WalterBoyd |
| Negative views and match attendance on 23:53 - Sep 15 by Treforys_Jack |
All I have to say is the lack of intensity during the game was frightening. So many players blowing out of their backsides after an hr, simply not good enough. I watched Bmuff and QPR last night and both look like they will absolutely destroy us. |
I was a bit surprised how tired a few of our players looked in the last 15 mins considering the amount of possession we had.
It could still be hangover of covid a few have had. Not making excuses just looking for reasons. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 04:33 - Sep 16 with 397 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 23:52 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
We were never beating them because cooper drilled all the positivity out of the squad, it was score then batten down the hatches, we beat Norwich and Watford comprehensively then for some stupid reason we went all defensive.
Gotcha, go back and read again, I definitely didn't say that it was coopers fault, i said it could have been his or the clubs fault, was he told to stop managing the two weeks before we all were notified of his departure or did he just not bother because he knew he was going, no one apart from winter and cooper will ever know. |
No, we were never beating them because they are a better team than us. It was not “negative” football, it was defensive football that got us there in the first place and equalled Brendans points record en route. Would have been so stupid to ditch that to switch to a style that didn’t suit us where we would then get torn apart.
On one hand people say when you change the style you need months on end to see results, then say Cooper should have changed the style in the Final and won against one of the best teams in the league. If it was that easy to do and can get results instantly then why have we only won 1 league game this year, which was when we played pragmatically, none playing the style Martin changed to…
Can’t have it both ways.
We beat Norwich and Watford playing exactly the same way. It worked against them, as it did the most of the league.
If you didn’t say it was Coopers fault then great, you agree with me. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 07:39 - Sep 16 with 361 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:07 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
Because they don’t, it’s the remit of the sports science guys and the fitness coaches, they work in tandem.
Seems just another cheap way to try and bash Cooper to be honest. I don’t mind people saying they didn’t enjoy his football, but it’s the myths I can’t stand. |
Our players always seemed fit in the two seasons he was in charge.
The question to ask is why has their fitness level got so bad in the two months since he left. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 07:53 - Sep 16 with 355 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:43 - Sep 15 by Dr_Parnassus |
It didn’t backfire. We were never beating them, they were way too good for us.
If we went out and attacked them we probably would have lost 6-0.
But I would rather lose 2-0 in the play-off final picking up a cheque for £20m, than scrapping for survival in 20th.
You made up it was Coopers fault that the squad was apparently unfit. It isn’t. |
And this is why money destroyed the game
Its like finishing 4th in the premier league -its great to have the cash don't get me wrong, it helps the club survive in these uncertain times for many clubs however I'm an old romantic in football and I'd rather fail by going for it rather than playing it safe
I've no doubt that had Cooper been in charge we'd have won more points by now this season however I'm happy we've rolled the dice as potentially we may get to a point where we could take on anyone in the league and be competitive and not just sit back like we ended up doing at the tail end of last season |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 08:24 - Sep 16 with 333 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 07:53 - Sep 16 by PatchesOHoulihan |
And this is why money destroyed the game
Its like finishing 4th in the premier league -its great to have the cash don't get me wrong, it helps the club survive in these uncertain times for many clubs however I'm an old romantic in football and I'd rather fail by going for it rather than playing it safe
I've no doubt that had Cooper been in charge we'd have won more points by now this season however I'm happy we've rolled the dice as potentially we may get to a point where we could take on anyone in the league and be competitive and not just sit back like we ended up doing at the tail end of last season |
But we did “go for it”. Going for it doesn’t mean attacking when that isn’t your strength, otherwise you end up 10th like Potter.
We went for it by ditching an ineffective style and gave ourselves the best possible chance of success, which worked as we improved our league position and points tally year on year. It would be stupid to revert back to an ineffective style after proving another style is more successful.
10th - 6th - 4th - 20th. Coopers style being the middle two, it’s no coincidence. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 08:51 - Sep 16 with 303 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 22:14 - Sep 15 by Fireboy2 |
So the boring, trite s@#$ we played whilst scraping wins and as many losses when it mattered didn't happen?
And I agreed with you re the purpose of the fitness coach, I think the manager has more input than a few updates on their fitness.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one doc 👠|
Dr P only watches Swans games on TV. He lives in Australia and his “opinions” (rantings) cannot be taken seriously . |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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