| Negative views and match attendance 23:35 - Sep 12 with 6978 views | WalterBoyd |
Just curious if there is a link. Someone posted earlier that most negative views are from fans who don't actually attend matches. I am unsure.
Onehunglow, Dwight , Dr Parnassuss , Shingle and AndyCole.
Out of the 5 of you, do any of you attend any Swans matches. How often ?
It's great to have the negative input, for every ying needs a yang and keeps us all on our toes.
I am genuinely curious if there is a link to fans not attending matches having a more negative view to the managers approach.
Your input is much appreciated. |  | | |  |
| Negative views and match attendance on 20:47 - Sep 13 with 934 views | onehunglow |
| Negative views and match attendance on 20:45 - Sep 13 by Treforys_Jack |
Not interested in going round and round with you as much as you'd want me to. Anyone who disagrees with you, you insult in a polite way. Football is purely a release for me and many others who judge it purely on whether they've enjoyed or not. You can produce all the stats and analysis you want, that's fine, i guess that's the FIFA generat, but ultimately its about 1 thing, was it enjoyable. Remember when Mark Gowers stats said he was the most effective midfielder in Europe. |
As opposed to those wo are not polite.-like. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 20:54 - Sep 13 with 946 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 20:45 - Sep 13 by Treforys_Jack |
Not interested in going round and round with you as much as you'd want me to. Anyone who disagrees with you, you insult in a polite way. Football is purely a release for me and many others who judge it purely on whether they've enjoyed or not. You can produce all the stats and analysis you want, that's fine, i guess that's the FIFA generat, but ultimately its about 1 thing, was it enjoyable. Remember when Mark Gowers stats said he was the most effective midfielder in Europe. |
“Insult in a polite way”…. You mean make a good point and annoy them that they can’t return fire? Sorry.
Stats has nothing to do with “the fifa generation”. Stats are a huge part of the game, hence why companies like OPTA have massive revenues as clubs ensure they have access to the data they collect which forms decisions on almost every single aspect of it. From training, to transfers, to match reviews, to team selection - you name it, stats will be there to show the decision maker is correct.
I understand you do not have a deep view of the game, that’s great, different strokes for different folks. Others have a far deeper interest in football and have the depth of knowledge to match and are able to read and interpret data to back their opinions on what they just saw.
Mark Gower was not the most effective midfielder in Europe, you are probably reading sensationalist headlines from writers that don’t understand the data they see.
Gower created most goal scoring opportunities for his side than any other, that is simply because he did, it wasn’t statistical trickery, it was largely down to the way we played and his role for us. Bony was also top goal scorer in the Premier League for the calendar year he was with us too… again because he simply was. |  |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:04 - Sep 13 with 928 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 20:54 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
“Insult in a polite way”…. You mean make a good point and annoy them that they can’t return fire? Sorry.
Stats has nothing to do with “the fifa generation”. Stats are a huge part of the game, hence why companies like OPTA have massive revenues as clubs ensure they have access to the data they collect which forms decisions on almost every single aspect of it. From training, to transfers, to match reviews, to team selection - you name it, stats will be there to show the decision maker is correct.
I understand you do not have a deep view of the game, that’s great, different strokes for different folks. Others have a far deeper interest in football and have the depth of knowledge to match and are able to read and interpret data to back their opinions on what they just saw.
Mark Gower was not the most effective midfielder in Europe, you are probably reading sensationalist headlines from writers that don’t understand the data they see.
Gower created most goal scoring opportunities for his side than any other, that is simply because he did, it wasn’t statistical trickery, it was largely down to the way we played and his role for us. Bony was also top goal scorer in the Premier League for the calendar year he was with us too… again because he simply was. |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:06 - Sep 13 with 919 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:04 - Sep 13 by Treforys_Jack |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 21:12 - Sep 13 with 906 views | swan_si |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:04 - Sep 13 by Treforys_Jack |
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 You little tinker  |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:13 - Sep 13 with 903 views | WalterBoyd |
| Negative views and match attendance on 17:10 - Sep 13 by vetchonian |
" Potter loved Trundle" I think you meant Celina?
Im not a Cooper ist, Potter ist Monkist Laudrup ist I am Swansea City Fan
I also believe in perspective anf fairness and unbiased opinions and consisetency
By the way I was critical of Monk. as manager another of HJ's mistakes especially when HJ allowed MOnk to consign Curt to the tea room after HJ had made his famous "continuity" speech re Curt following the deaprture of MArtinez et al!!!
I get frustrated that somehow it seemsthis season football is so much better.......realisitcally it seems so becasue we can be athe stadium...if we had to watch that gmae on Saturday as we did last year then the boo boys would have been out..yet the current manager is defended...for me the jury is out on Martin but he has my support...I always judge managers in results and their football not where they come from their roots, playing pedigree ....I was never that impressed by Trundle an entertainer who self promoted himself via Soccer Saturday ...he did well fo us but his limitations were proven when he left to go to Bristol #City and flopped....I always said a "low ranking PL club " would have paid £1m fo him if they thought he had what was needed at higher level but no one took the gamble...whiich also shows how we fans get rose tinted specs about players, managers et al too...Then again we are all free to have our own opinions |
"I was never that impressed by Trundle" by Vetchonian.
For the time he was with us, what a breath of fresh air, skilful, yes an entertainer, he was worth the entry fee alone.
Many a dark and gloomy vetch night was lit up by Trundle and later the Liberty.
Not a Prem player but for the level he was at and time with us he excelled.
I am amazed any Swans fan can not be impressed by him. But all opinions.
A Swans legend,for me. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:18 - Sep 13 with 887 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:13 - Sep 13 by WalterBoyd |
"I was never that impressed by Trundle" by Vetchonian.
For the time he was with us, what a breath of fresh air, skilful, yes an entertainer, he was worth the entry fee alone.
Many a dark and gloomy vetch night was lit up by Trundle and later the Liberty.
Not a Prem player but for the level he was at and time with us he excelled.
I am amazed any Swans fan can not be impressed by him. But all opinions.
A Swans legend,for me. |
Indeed, his shoulder roll was a thing of beauty, I think vetchonian was referring to him not being able to make the step up, which is difficult to argue. He was however an absolute joy and privilege to watch in a Swans shirt in his first stint with us. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:01 - Sep 14 with 813 views | Catullus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 13:37 - Sep 13 by vetchonian |
Interesting OP I would like to know how you define a negative poster?
Is it anyone who has not joined the band of happy clappers who are convinced now we have a new manager all is well and hunky dory .
IS it anyine whi questions if things have actually improved?
LAst season you could say the majority of posters were negative as there were always many on here decrying the "quality " of football , the managers tactics , choice and ignoring of players, lack of goals,yet this season anyone who dares to do the same is deemed negative.
I was amused reading the matchday thread and it is mentioned here how watching games on the tv doesnt give the same perspective as bein gin the ground...yet for all of last season ( playoff games exclded) all of us watched games only via a screen yet created myths and views on the stylr of play and what was happening yet now annyone who was not actually at the game and watched via screen is not seeing all tha is happeneing. and so cannot appreciate what is going on....funny how last season that was ok?
Each individual is entitiled to their own opinion we will not always agree but I cannot believe the hypocrosiy that exists......I know I will get accused of being a Cooper fan boy....Im not related nor do I have a crush for me it is the "crap" and myths created and then when you sit back and see what is happening now ....Cooper was much maligned for not playing Whittaker ....yet Martin doesnt even put him on the bench despite him getting a hat trick .....no brickbats....
As I said it is the hypocrisy and prdeujice that I dislike. I wish MArtin well I hope he succeeds then my beloved Swans will once again be flying ...IT is early days and we are going through a "revolution" but soon that period of grace will have to end.
Football fans suffer often from a lack of perspective and it seems many of our fanbase have been suffering for m this since relegation.
I watch the Swans to see us win , I also like good football and I would not turn up week after week to watch our cousins up the road play as they do.....But I will not be ahppy to endure moths of what we witnessed on Saturday against a very poor Hull side....we saw against Stoke what a team who will use the high press can do to us.
For all our possesion we only mustered 4 shots on target
And by the way I do watch at the stadium season ticket holder of many years....and a Northbank regular in the Vetch days
I intended to stay away untill aleasr 10 games in but lets look at some stats
LAst season apparantly we played dull defensive football wellin the first 6 games we had an average of 55% possesion an average of 11 shots per game with and average of 4 shots on target per game with a total of 7 goals averaging at 1.16 goals per game
COmpare that with this season where we noe play attacking possesion football yet with an average of 64% possession ( +9%) we only have averaged 9 shots per game (18% less) with an average of 3 being on target (25% less) and only 5 goals scored an average of 0.83 per game yet it is alledged we are a moke attractive attacking force. We pass the ball a lot but mostly sideways and back....
So call me negative....the stats reflect what I saw Saturday and in the match day threads people were blaming the ref as we hould have had penalties and more free kicks...our style and possesion should generate resuls....as performances go it want great and beleive me being in the stadium it makles things 10 times better but I am sure if this had been last season and we were watchin ghte game at home on tv many of our opinions would not be as positive as they are!!!
[Post edited 13 Sep 2021 13:44]
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First up, hardly anybody is happy with it right now but we have can see that things are improving and it was always going to take a while after such massive changes. Those of us who can see that are giving Martin time and patience but he hasn't got forever.
Things have improved but lst season those defending Cooper called the rest of us a whole load of names.
Last season wtaching it on tv, that was all we had, it was all anybody could base their opinion on. There weren't any myths, the games were boring to many of us and we said so.
You must have missed it but it has been questioned, why Whittaker isn't gettinga chance but Cullen is, Keith himself has asked the question.
Those stats from last season, 55% poss, 11 shots, 4 on target, our stats against Hull were better 69%, 16 and 4 and I fervently hope to see those stats improve again, hopefully with us scoring a couple!
You are using stats from Coopers second season when he had had plenty of time to build his team. Maybe we could give Martin time too and in doing so accept that there have been very many challenges but the signs are still promising.
PS, you said 'for all our possession we only mustered 4 shots on target' yet that's Coopers teams average which you seem Ok with. Maybe we should judge Martin by the same standards but you are right about the grace period, if we are not winning games in another month, Martin will find the mood turning against him. He hasn't got forever but he should be allowed a decent amount of time, what he is trying to do was never going to happen in a few weeks. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 00:13 - Sep 14 with 805 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:01 - Sep 14 by Catullus |
First up, hardly anybody is happy with it right now but we have can see that things are improving and it was always going to take a while after such massive changes. Those of us who can see that are giving Martin time and patience but he hasn't got forever.
Things have improved but lst season those defending Cooper called the rest of us a whole load of names.
Last season wtaching it on tv, that was all we had, it was all anybody could base their opinion on. There weren't any myths, the games were boring to many of us and we said so.
You must have missed it but it has been questioned, why Whittaker isn't gettinga chance but Cullen is, Keith himself has asked the question.
Those stats from last season, 55% poss, 11 shots, 4 on target, our stats against Hull were better 69%, 16 and 4 and I fervently hope to see those stats improve again, hopefully with us scoring a couple!
You are using stats from Coopers second season when he had had plenty of time to build his team. Maybe we could give Martin time too and in doing so accept that there have been very many challenges but the signs are still promising.
PS, you said 'for all our possession we only mustered 4 shots on target' yet that's Coopers teams average which you seem Ok with. Maybe we should judge Martin by the same standards but you are right about the grace period, if we are not winning games in another month, Martin will find the mood turning against him. He hasn't got forever but he should be allowed a decent amount of time, what he is trying to do was never going to happen in a few weeks. |
I disagree, many seem happy with it. Someone said to me on another thread that we have got acceptable results so far (?!).
Again, I don’t buy into the “massive changes” narrative. It’s a massive change for the supporter, but the players are new. It’s no different to when Cooper came here having to implement his style with the ones he inherited and then bring in the players he wanted. Martin has 4 legacy players in the starting 11 from the Cooper era, the rest he has brought in himself.
In Coopers first 6 games he won 5 of them and drew the other. His very first game was ironically against Hull. We won 2-1, 19 shots and 64% possession with nearly 600 passes. And there was no Ayew either before you say it.
So Cooper was a new manager, lost key players, changed the style… yet was still able to get results on the board as he was developing that style.
Why can’t Martin? And why shouldn’t we be disappointed that he hasn’t been able to? | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 04:02 - Sep 14 with 774 views | Whiterockin |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:13 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I disagree, many seem happy with it. Someone said to me on another thread that we have got acceptable results so far (?!).
Again, I don’t buy into the “massive changes” narrative. It’s a massive change for the supporter, but the players are new. It’s no different to when Cooper came here having to implement his style with the ones he inherited and then bring in the players he wanted. Martin has 4 legacy players in the starting 11 from the Cooper era, the rest he has brought in himself.
In Coopers first 6 games he won 5 of them and drew the other. His very first game was ironically against Hull. We won 2-1, 19 shots and 64% possession with nearly 600 passes. And there was no Ayew either before you say it.
So Cooper was a new manager, lost key players, changed the style… yet was still able to get results on the board as he was developing that style.
Why can’t Martin? And why shouldn’t we be disappointed that he hasn’t been able to? |
It still begs the question, why did Cooper leave?
He was going to lose his captain? Grimes is still here.
Financially would not be backed by the club? As you say we have spent more than any previous time in the Championship.
Everyone has an opinion, for many its getting plainer to see.
And it was you who brought Cooper up. |  | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 05:08 - Sep 14 with 748 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 04:02 - Sep 14 by Whiterockin |
It still begs the question, why did Cooper leave?
He was going to lose his captain? Grimes is still here.
Financially would not be backed by the club? As you say we have spent more than any previous time in the Championship.
Everyone has an opinion, for many its getting plainer to see.
And it was you who brought Cooper up. |
Me that brought Cooper up?
I suggest you read the post I was replying to. Because you are wrong.
Why he left is widely reported, although it's completely irrelevant, he did leave. Martin is here now and he needs to get results. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 09:25 - Sep 14 with 685 views | vetchonian |
| Negative views and match attendance on 21:18 - Sep 13 by Treforys_Jack |
Indeed, his shoulder roll was a thing of beauty, I think vetchonian was referring to him not being able to make the step up, which is difficult to argue. He was however an absolute joy and privilege to watch in a Swans shirt in his first stint with us. |
SPot on Treforys....He did indeed bring a spark to the team but despite that he had man limitations, only one foot,slow i getting back so this meant he was never going to make the "next" or higher level yet we as a fanbase have really made him out as something special....yes a Swans legend as the great Wyndham would die for the Swans and did actually get to play in Div 1 but only as he was here he would never have been snapped up a top club like other legends such as Curt or Robbie....It just demonstrate that as fans we have "opinions" whic h are sometimes rose tinted | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 09:30 - Sep 14 with 683 views | Whiterockin |
| Negative views and match attendance on 05:08 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Me that brought Cooper up?
I suggest you read the post I was replying to. Because you are wrong.
Why he left is widely reported, although it's completely irrelevant, he did leave. Martin is here now and he needs to get results. |
My point is Cooper bottled it and RM has taken over a job that others were not prepared to take because of the size of the challenge this season. He therefore should be given time to sort it out without the constant criticism.
Particularly from those who don't even attend matches and support the team. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 9:31]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 09:36 - Sep 14 with 669 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 09:30 - Sep 14 by Whiterockin |
My point is Cooper bottled it and RM has taken over a job that others were not prepared to take because of the size of the challenge this season. He therefore should be given time to sort it out without the constant criticism.
Particularly from those who don't even attend matches and support the team. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 9:31]
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Yes, but that point is not true is it.
You have made it up due to a predisposition regarding our former manager. You aren't the only one, you are in fair company.
Russell Martin is not special, he does not have a magical force field and should be held to account and scrutinised like any other manager we have had. If you don't like it then you will have to deal with it, his CV is not extensive enough for blind faith.
That's what proper fans like me do you see. Sorry that it upsets you, it won't be changing. The club always comes first for me and I will constantly be monitoring performances and results.
Feel free to be in the Russell Martin protection ring if it helps you face the realities that what you called for isn't working, but real fans have the clubs best interest at heart, not protecting personal pride. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 9:45]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 10:54 - Sep 14 with 646 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Negative views and match attendance on 09:36 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes, but that point is not true is it.
You have made it up due to a predisposition regarding our former manager. You aren't the only one, you are in fair company.
Russell Martin is not special, he does not have a magical force field and should be held to account and scrutinised like any other manager we have had. If you don't like it then you will have to deal with it, his CV is not extensive enough for blind faith.
That's what proper fans like me do you see. Sorry that it upsets you, it won't be changing. The club always comes first for me and I will constantly be monitoring performances and results.
Feel free to be in the Russell Martin protection ring if it helps you face the realities that what you called for isn't working, but real fans have the clubs best interest at heart, not protecting personal pride. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 9:45]
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Real fans like you, dear God man, listen to yourself. How much money does a real fan like yourself put into the club each season. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 10:58 - Sep 14 with 638 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 10:54 - Sep 14 by Treforys_Jack |
Real fans like you, dear God man, listen to yourself. How much money does a real fan like yourself put into the club each season. |
 So someone is allowed the gall to question my ''fan-dom'', but I am not allowed to defend it?
I love these lop-sided standards people have when they cannot debate the point in question.
Have we really regressed into the ''I give more money than you'' nonsense? Really. Put it this way, I have paid my dues. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 11:43 - Sep 14 with 618 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| Negative views and match attendance on 09:36 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes, but that point is not true is it.
You have made it up due to a predisposition regarding our former manager. You aren't the only one, you are in fair company.
Russell Martin is not special, he does not have a magical force field and should be held to account and scrutinised like any other manager we have had. If you don't like it then you will have to deal with it, his CV is not extensive enough for blind faith.
That's what proper fans like me do you see. Sorry that it upsets you, it won't be changing. The club always comes first for me and I will constantly be monitoring performances and results.
Feel free to be in the Russell Martin protection ring if it helps you face the realities that what you called for isn't working, but real fans have the clubs best interest at heart, not protecting personal pride. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 9:45]
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"Real fans"
Are you talking about fans or supporters - I'm sure I saw a conversation on here before stating they were different things
BEcause I go and try to be supportive wherever I can about the swans as opposed to relentlessly saying the same things on an internet board over and over again make me more of a supporter than a fan
Because I believe we need to allow for a transition period (where some may not) does that not make me a real fan? If I genuinly thought we'd be going down my opinion may differ but sometimes its 1 step back for 2 steps forward and thats where I'm hoping we are
Stats, as effective you may believe they are for the industry, have ruined a game that I love - I'm not saying there is no place to use them but many of them are completely pointless and not an indicator of anything relevant on a pitch and many can be manipulated to prove points where the reality is not so black and white |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 11:51 - Sep 14 with 611 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 11:43 - Sep 14 by PatchesOHoulihan |
"Real fans"
Are you talking about fans or supporters - I'm sure I saw a conversation on here before stating they were different things
BEcause I go and try to be supportive wherever I can about the swans as opposed to relentlessly saying the same things on an internet board over and over again make me more of a supporter than a fan
Because I believe we need to allow for a transition period (where some may not) does that not make me a real fan? If I genuinly thought we'd be going down my opinion may differ but sometimes its 1 step back for 2 steps forward and thats where I'm hoping we are
Stats, as effective you may believe they are for the industry, have ruined a game that I love - I'm not saying there is no place to use them but many of them are completely pointless and not an indicator of anything relevant on a pitch and many can be manipulated to prove points where the reality is not so black and white |
Fans and supporters all come under the same bracket for me, if you believe they are different then I will happily listen to your reasoning and reassess the wording if it requires.
If ''supporters'' had to have blind faith and be happy in every situation then this forum wouldn't have very many at all, last year was embarrassing in terms of support for a side that was doing so well.
All managers are new at one point, they all get a transition period to perfect their style. But during that time they still need to be providing acceptable results, especially when we have spent so much money (2nd highest ever football league spend in the clubs history).
Anyone refusing to face reality due to a desire to save face because what they have been calling for isn't working, is not a real fan in my eyes. No time for them.
It is a shame you think stats have ruined the game. Usually its due to people not being able to get away with a skewed narrative anymore. That's why they are so vital to most clubs, the more successful the greater the stats department and reliance on them.
People often say they dislike stats, then reel off ''possession '', ''we had x shots on target''... they only dont like them when it shows something they dont like. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 12:08]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 12:12 - Sep 14 with 600 views | jackrmee |
| Negative views and match attendance on 11:51 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Fans and supporters all come under the same bracket for me, if you believe they are different then I will happily listen to your reasoning and reassess the wording if it requires.
If ''supporters'' had to have blind faith and be happy in every situation then this forum wouldn't have very many at all, last year was embarrassing in terms of support for a side that was doing so well.
All managers are new at one point, they all get a transition period to perfect their style. But during that time they still need to be providing acceptable results, especially when we have spent so much money (2nd highest ever football league spend in the clubs history).
Anyone refusing to face reality due to a desire to save face because what they have been calling for isn't working, is not a real fan in my eyes. No time for them.
It is a shame you think stats have ruined the game. Usually its due to people not being able to get away with a skewed narrative anymore. That's why they are so vital to most clubs, the more successful the greater the stats department and reliance on them.
People often say they dislike stats, then reel off ''possession '', ''we had x shots on target''... they only dont like them when it shows something they dont like. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 12:08]
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Stats stop people "being able to get away with a skewed narrative" you say.
How about you have a look at the stats here and tell us what each and every one shows.
https://eflanalysis.com/analys
I wonder who has been coming out with the "skewed narratives"?
If you still can't see a massive improvement from the Preston game and give our manager some credit, you are the most skewed person on this forum.
We were better than the other team in every single aspect, on every single part of the pitch.
In defence, midfield, attack.
In the air and on the floor.
Everywhere.
And as this independent article states several times, the only thing Swansea couldn't do, is put the ball in the net.
Yet another poor performance is how you feel you should put it across.
You are no Swans fan.
You are here to create division and cause arguments.
Loser. |  |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 12:28 - Sep 14 with 582 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 12:12 - Sep 14 by jackrmee |
Stats stop people "being able to get away with a skewed narrative" you say.
How about you have a look at the stats here and tell us what each and every one shows.
https://eflanalysis.com/analys
I wonder who has been coming out with the "skewed narratives"?
If you still can't see a massive improvement from the Preston game and give our manager some credit, you are the most skewed person on this forum.
We were better than the other team in every single aspect, on every single part of the pitch.
In defence, midfield, attack.
In the air and on the floor.
Everywhere.
And as this independent article states several times, the only thing Swansea couldn't do, is put the ball in the net.
Yet another poor performance is how you feel you should put it across.
You are no Swans fan.
You are here to create division and cause arguments.
Loser. |
Of course we were better than them, they are Hull, one of the worst teams in the league (predicted to finish in the bottom 4 by probability).
No skewed narratives here, I have no reason to skew any narratives. My stance is simple, if we are playing to or above our ability and getting those results as a consequence of that, I will generally be happy.
If we are playing below our ability and as a result not getting the points on the board as a consequence, I will say so and point out areas we need to improve. Completely normal attitude.
Your issue is you are part of a cartel that slated us when we were doing extremely well and now accepting mediocrity because calling it as it is makes your initial stances look silly. It is completely arse backwards, I am yet to know a group of fans that hate it when they are at the top and love it when they are at the bottom. Its not a genuine reaction.
As for the Hull game, they are pretty limited stats. But what is there suggests we had an awful lot of the ball and didn't convert that into enough clear cut chances to score. Having more of the ball than the opposition doesn't mean you win the day, that is not the object of the game.
Just as I said at the time funnily enough.
We are 21st, and won one league game this season - after which the manager criticised the players for going rogue and moving from his tactics. My views are entirely in keeping with that. Yours aren't, which is why I question if you are genuine.
Especially with your behavior elsewhere. Its being noted I'm sure. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 12:30]
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| Negative views and match attendance on 13:14 - Sep 14 with 555 views | max936 |
| Negative views and match attendance on 11:43 - Sep 14 by PatchesOHoulihan |
"Real fans"
Are you talking about fans or supporters - I'm sure I saw a conversation on here before stating they were different things
BEcause I go and try to be supportive wherever I can about the swans as opposed to relentlessly saying the same things on an internet board over and over again make me more of a supporter than a fan
Because I believe we need to allow for a transition period (where some may not) does that not make me a real fan? If I genuinly thought we'd be going down my opinion may differ but sometimes its 1 step back for 2 steps forward and thats where I'm hoping we are
Stats, as effective you may believe they are for the industry, have ruined a game that I love - I'm not saying there is no place to use them but many of them are completely pointless and not an indicator of anything relevant on a pitch and many can be manipulated to prove points where the reality is not so black and white |
Sorry for down arrow it was meant to be an up, phones and fat fingers don’t mix🙈 |  |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 14:35 - Sep 14 with 495 views | Treforys_Jack |
I saw an interview with Eric Cantona the other day where he was bemoaning stats ruining football, he said players are no longer free to express themselves sadly. | | | |
| Negative views and match attendance on 14:51 - Sep 14 with 481 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 14:35 - Sep 14 by Treforys_Jack |
I saw an interview with Eric Cantona the other day where he was bemoaning stats ruining football, he said players are no longer free to express themselves sadly. |
And that’s why he’s an actor and not in football anymore, and football has come in leaps and bounds since it’s introduction. | |
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| Negative views and match attendance on 16:42 - Sep 14 with 421 views | Catullus |
| Negative views and match attendance on 00:13 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
I disagree, many seem happy with it. Someone said to me on another thread that we have got acceptable results so far (?!).
Again, I don’t buy into the “massive changes” narrative. It’s a massive change for the supporter, but the players are new. It’s no different to when Cooper came here having to implement his style with the ones he inherited and then bring in the players he wanted. Martin has 4 legacy players in the starting 11 from the Cooper era, the rest he has brought in himself.
In Coopers first 6 games he won 5 of them and drew the other. His very first game was ironically against Hull. We won 2-1, 19 shots and 64% possession with nearly 600 passes. And there was no Ayew either before you say it.
So Cooper was a new manager, lost key players, changed the style… yet was still able to get results on the board as he was developing that style.
Why can’t Martin? And why shouldn’t we be disappointed that he hasn’t been able to? |
In Coopers first season he didn't change that much, we carried on playing pretty much the way Potters team had. It was just after Christmas in the second season when Cooper went all negative and boring.
What Martin has lost is also 3 of the 4 best players from last season, Ayew, Roberts and Guehi. Of course it's massive changes, it's not just personnel changes, it's playing style too.
In Coopers first 6 games, go on you like a good stat, how many of the starting 11 were there from Potters team?
And again, Cooper did not change the style that much. The 4 legacy players, isn't 7 new starting players, besides who's on the bench a massive change?
Not to you obviously. Most fans would (and indeed are) give the manager a grace period in all this. It's only a few of you that aren't. I wonder why because I do believe there are ulterior motives!
PS, I'm not getting all wrapped up in this endless cycle that you always embark on so reply or don't but I'm out now. I made my points, that's enough. | |
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