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Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:17 - Feb 6 with 901 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 12:49 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
I am not a business consultant. I asked you and Chief if holding 25%+ protects a shareholder from dilution. You say it can.
Chief who promotes legal action tells me it is "to give the Trust protection". Protection from what? He for once did not answer my question.
Why do they want to protect themselves from dilution? Please explain. They cash to share ratio is crazy. They are not getting dividends and what they do have is getting 0.15% according to accounts. In 2013-2016 they had to sell. They stated "they would never sell" in 2015 and stated they were not keen on selling in 2016. It was a mistake. Bad management.
The trust want to run the club. You say they are inept. They are getting 0.15% on their money. The objective is to be Wales's 3 biggest club behind Cardiff and Wrexham.
Wrexham are finally rolling again by the moribund (dilution protected) Trust giving their club away to US and Canadian Celebrities. The Wrexham Trust have worked their way through £15m easily over the last 10 years.
Swansea Trust will need local partners, The most suitable are Morgan Jenkins and Dineen. No local business people will accept the trust calling the shots and controlling how their own money is spent.
Swansea fans that want more power for the Trust to look at Wrexham FC. Another trust that could not grow, could not invest , ran on a shoestring. They just got bored in the end of dull losing football and handed over their club to an American and Canadian.
Wrexham was never diluted. Dilution is not the problem Devaluation is the problem. Wrexham Trust were quite competent as trusts go. Their leader has been very eloquent on TV. I have never seen a Swansea Trust leader on the screen.
- Right, what's your point?
- I didn't answer because the posters explained it more eloquently than I would have. If I'd had anything to add, I would have.
- because it in reality lowers the value of their shareholding. It's obvious. It'll only be of no impact of the club in real terms benefit from the investment. The trust are choosing not to take that gamble.
- the interest rate in the bank for their instant access funds has no relevance to this.
- 2013-16 they were consulted upon and were working constructively with the previous regime, so no need to sell.
- as has been explained on this thread but you ignore, it doesn't matter that the trust didn't want to sell in years previous to the sale. Circumstances change and policies change in line with that. That is patently good, pragmatic management. Absolutely nothing bad about it.
- do they? Where have they stated that? It's completely unrealistic anyway so it's a strange theory to concoct. The trust's objective is be smaller than Wrexham? Have you completely lost the plot?
- not sure what relevance Wrexham is. A national League club. We're discussing Swansea City.
- why do they need to be local partners? The trust could be the local partner. Based on what? These local businesses if they look into will realise the trust only has eyes on the stability of the football club so if anything they would be reassured that the trust are not likely to risk that to make a quick buck for example.
- SCFC are employing a tactic to gain funds with which in future they may be able to invest. So that's a strange pointless paragraph again.
- That's down to Wrexham. Again very little relevance to our scenario. They're completely different owners for a start who are extremely high profile and prepared to put their name & publicity to the project. It would be terrible PR for them to let Wrexham fail. That's a contrast to ours. The most famous of which shys away and would have remained anonymous. Which she has now been for many years (if she even is still involved).
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 13:17 - Feb 6 by Chief
- Right, what's your point?
- I didn't answer because the posters explained it more eloquently than I would have. If I'd had anything to add, I would have.
- because it in reality lowers the value of their shareholding. It's obvious. It'll only be of no impact of the club in real terms benefit from the investment. The trust are choosing not to take that gamble.
- the interest rate in the bank for their instant access funds has no relevance to this.
- 2013-16 they were consulted upon and were working constructively with the previous regime, so no need to sell.
- as has been explained on this thread but you ignore, it doesn't matter that the trust didn't want to sell in years previous to the sale. Circumstances change and policies change in line with that. That is patently good, pragmatic management. Absolutely nothing bad about it.
- do they? Where have they stated that? It's completely unrealistic anyway so it's a strange theory to concoct. The trust's objective is be smaller than Wrexham? Have you completely lost the plot?
- not sure what relevance Wrexham is. A national League club. We're discussing Swansea City.
- why do they need to be local partners? The trust could be the local partner. Based on what? These local businesses if they look into will realise the trust only has eyes on the stability of the football club so if anything they would be reassured that the trust are not likely to risk that to make a quick buck for example.
- SCFC are employing a tactic to gain funds with which in future they may be able to invest. So that's a strange pointless paragraph again.
- That's down to Wrexham. Again very little relevance to our scenario. They're completely different owners for a start who are extremely high profile and prepared to put their name & publicity to the project. It would be terrible PR for them to let Wrexham fail. That's a contrast to ours. The most famous of which shys away and would have remained anonymous. Which she has now been for many years (if she even is still involved).
-
Chief, there is no longer any need to respond, everyone knows what he is, no-one at all agrees with him from what I can see, so leave him report back that he's failed miserably.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:29 - Feb 6 with 829 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:22 - Feb 6 by Treforys_Jack
Chief, there is no longer any need to respond, everyone knows what he is, no-one at all agrees with him from what I can see, so leave him report back that he's failed miserably.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 14:31 - Feb 6 by Chief
Yea you're right, there's nothing else to say, it's all been explained in great detail now.
There is plenty more to say. If you do not like the message go after the poster preferably in a gang. I understand the principle that has served Planetswans for years with a that loathsome fellow Zappa.. It is a culture where fake narratives can develop and grow.
You say Dilution means loss of value. It can happen but that is related to how investment is used not as an automatic result. Stoke and Everton have invested poorly diluting their shareholders as the value of the investment dropped. However they are building a fabulous new stadium so that will see the valuation rise if it can be delivered on time and on budget.
Our good friend Jason Levien mastered that task at DC United. No doubt is minor shareholders are happy with him. (much smaller stadium obviously)
It says this on Google
[It is important to realize that stock dilution is not necessarily a bad thing — any new investment should aim to increase the value of the whole, so that even if your percentage ownership goes down, the pie should get bigger so that your share of the pie could actually be worth more.]
The convertible loan note has been used to -
a) Relay the pitch - adding value b) Paint the stadium steel work - adding value c) Buying Downes, Obafemi, Piroe, Fisher, Patterson, Obegta - adding value. d) Clear some debts reducing interest payments - adding value.
In your view Chief has the CLN added value to the club.? Has Downes and Piroe added value?
How did the trust contribute to this added value? With cash or just good will? Do the trust deserve to own 21% of this added value?
The Trust did not contribute and have shown no interest in contributing.
They want to sell not buy new shares in the championship (prices are low) They wanted to buy not sell in the Premier leagues (prices were high)
Their strategy has been consistently poor and still is.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 15:28]
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:33 - Feb 6 with 775 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:21 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
There is plenty more to say. If you do not like the message go after the poster preferably in a gang. I understand the principle that has served Planetswans for years with a that loathsome fellow Zappa.. It is a culture where fake narratives can develop and grow.
You say Dilution means loss of value. It can happen but that is related to how investment is used not as an automatic result. Stoke and Everton have invested poorly diluting their shareholders as the value of the investment dropped. However they are building a fabulous new stadium so that will see the valuation rise if it can be delivered on time and on budget.
Our good friend Jason Levien mastered that task at DC United. No doubt is minor shareholders are happy with him. (much smaller stadium obviously)
It says this on Google
[It is important to realize that stock dilution is not necessarily a bad thing — any new investment should aim to increase the value of the whole, so that even if your percentage ownership goes down, the pie should get bigger so that your share of the pie could actually be worth more.]
The convertible loan note has been used to -
a) Relay the pitch - adding value b) Paint the stadium steel work - adding value c) Buying Downes, Obafemi, Piroe, Fisher, Patterson, Obegta - adding value. d) Clear some debts reducing interest payments - adding value.
In your view Chief has the CLN added value to the club.? Has Downes and Piroe added value?
How did the trust contribute to this added value? With cash or just good will? Do the trust deserve to own 21% of this added value?
The Trust did not contribute and have shown no interest in contributing.
They want to sell not buy new shares in the championship (prices are low) They wanted to buy not sell in the Premier leagues (prices were high)
Their strategy has been consistently poor and still is.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 15:28]
- In short, no, the club is still worth its lowest amount for years and our outgoing transfers are still roughly cover the incomings. The trust owns 21% of it, they don't want that lowering.
- the CLN stuff has been done to death. You think the trust should have been offered to opportunity to join. They weren't. The trust have requested the particulars, the Americans won't provide them.
- The court case is about selling the shares at premier level prices so you seem very confused at the end of your post.
All old ground, better you pay attention, start listening to what people are telling you or just read back at your leisure.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 23:38 - Feb 5 by Treforys_Jack
Why did they not inform the trust they were selling until it was too late. They shat themselves after a couple of flirts with relegation and the gravy train disappearing into the distance.
It was not too late. They were told in March and did not complete until July. "Too late" will always be a problem for the Trust. They took months to get a mandate and have spent 4-5 years getting to today. The buyers arrived before Brexit.
The Trust need reform. They are always "Too late".
If they wanted to sell at Premier league prices they should put themselves on the market in the Premier league. They never did. 2010 -2017 they had seven season but were "Too late".
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 15:43]
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:48 - Feb 6 with 756 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:42 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
It was not too late. They were told in March and did not complete until July. "Too late" will always be a problem for the Trust. They took months to get a mandate and have spent 4-5 years getting to today. The buyers arrived before Brexit.
The Trust need reform. They are always "Too late".
If they wanted to sell at Premier league prices they should put themselves on the market in the Premier league. They never did. 2010 -2017 they had seven season but were "Too late".
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 15:43]
Thus pretending to be twp and pretending you haven't been told things is getting old now. Maybe I'm being harsh - do you genuinely have memory recall issues? If so I apologise. But it's all there if you scroll up to refresh.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:48 - Feb 6 by Chief
Thus pretending to be twp and pretending you haven't been told things is getting old now. Maybe I'm being harsh - do you genuinely have memory recall issues? If so I apologise. But it's all there if you scroll up to refresh.
Literally all that post has been clarified.
Chill out and enjoy the tune. What was said in 2015 was said in good faith.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 16:00 - Feb 6 with 733 views
You know what Res, no one has attacked you directly, not before rubbishing your posts and telling you everyone has sussed your game. Why you keep trying this is beyond me as I can't find anyone who agrees with you.
Just give it a rest now and see how the court case goes because nothing said on here is going to affect the outome.
This relentless narrative you have pushed, hijacking threads regularly, accusing others of bullying you, it's nonsense and people are bored with it.
Chief and A.N.other who might answer, do us all a favour and ignore these posts. We have seen through him so there's no need to engage. Resloven, why don't you simply stick to the thread topic, or if you must change it, stay away from this. it's gone beyond boring now.
PS, no point answering me, don't bother, you're on ignore, end of.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 15:21 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
There is plenty more to say. If you do not like the message go after the poster preferably in a gang. I understand the principle that has served Planetswans for years with a that loathsome fellow Zappa.. It is a culture where fake narratives can develop and grow.
You say Dilution means loss of value. It can happen but that is related to how investment is used not as an automatic result. Stoke and Everton have invested poorly diluting their shareholders as the value of the investment dropped. However they are building a fabulous new stadium so that will see the valuation rise if it can be delivered on time and on budget.
Our good friend Jason Levien mastered that task at DC United. No doubt is minor shareholders are happy with him. (much smaller stadium obviously)
It says this on Google
[It is important to realize that stock dilution is not necessarily a bad thing — any new investment should aim to increase the value of the whole, so that even if your percentage ownership goes down, the pie should get bigger so that your share of the pie could actually be worth more.]
The convertible loan note has been used to -
a) Relay the pitch - adding value b) Paint the stadium steel work - adding value c) Buying Downes, Obafemi, Piroe, Fisher, Patterson, Obegta - adding value. d) Clear some debts reducing interest payments - adding value.
In your view Chief has the CLN added value to the club.? Has Downes and Piroe added value?
How did the trust contribute to this added value? With cash or just good will? Do the trust deserve to own 21% of this added value?
The Trust did not contribute and have shown no interest in contributing.
They want to sell not buy new shares in the championship (prices are low) They wanted to buy not sell in the Premier leagues (prices were high)
Their strategy has been consistently poor and still is.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 15:28]
It seems like a pack because no-one, literally no-one agrees with you. Why is that, think about it !!
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:28 - Feb 6 with 687 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 16:21 - Feb 6 by Treforys_Jack
It seems like a pack because no-one, literally no-one agrees with you. Why is that, think about it !!
I got four voted in the election although 2 mysteriously vanished. One person who supported me was "set upon" (in forum terms) by 3 or 4 regulars and asked to reconsider.
I believe the Trust and the members all 1000+ of them have lost their way and seen the organisation taken over by minority interest groups. The model is the Labour party being run by Momentum activists for several years with Mr Corbyn in charge. One or two people that actually think through scenarios pipe up like Royston at the last AGM. He made some very good points.
Because so few people vote and understand the arguments the activists control the voting and the agenda. Minor interests activists dominate. This is not necessarily a bad thing I should add.
Activists like Chief with a weak grasp of business rule the roost with persistent peddling of fake narratives and the party line. Posters often suggest the US people of being prone sharp practice for example and use pejorative names like 'Yank' and 'sell out'. People put Dr in their monikers to give themselves extra gravitas.
Every one thought "investment" was good right?. In the Trust world Investment is a hostile act because it leads to dilution. The Trust needs 'protection from dilution'. This means controlling decision making to prevent investment from outside. Exeter city in reality.
You are probably all for investment but against dilution right? They are mutually exclusive. If there is investment there must be dilution. Do you understand? No one agrees with me because they do not understand what I am saying.
What should have happened was the Trust had a strategy of cashing in in the Premier league. They could have ensured this by publicly putting themselves on the market backed by a mandate from the members. This would be called a 'long term strategy'.
They had a different strategy, Under the sale strategy the other sellers would have had confidence in them, With £15m in the bank and a 5% holding they could invest £1 in every £19 invested by others. Their holding was always "high risk". It is now most probably "Too late" to make up for their mistakes.
They will never see the £21m even with a court win. I suggest they go "all in Burnley". Fans and members understand football. They should not put faith in English Justice system which few understand. Put your faith in Flynn Downes not a Judge who might not fully understand the opinion of the east stand Ultras.
The Trust needs a long term plan devised preferably by a business consultant.
Wrexham was owned by their Trust for two decades or so operating under the same rules are Swansea's Trust presumably With no investments no loans no outside investors they declined and got taken over by apathy and disinterest. All their young players were poached by the big urban giants. Neco Williams for example. They found few if any local business partners for good reason. The actors probably considered including the Wrexham Trust in heir team but their advisors quickly blocked that idea I suspect.
They ended up handing over their club for free to American and Canadian. These guys have less money than Levien and Kaplan and have invested less than them. Reynold's and co £2m. Levien and Co £10m. Wrexham are buying lower league 30 year old battlers. Swansea 21 year old prospects.
This is my preferred narrative. Yours is different.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 17:33]
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:31 - Feb 6 with 681 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:28 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
I got four voted in the election although 2 mysteriously vanished. One person who supported me was "set upon" (in forum terms) by 3 or 4 regulars and asked to reconsider.
I believe the Trust and the members all 1000+ of them have lost their way and seen the organisation taken over by minority interest groups. The model is the Labour party being run by Momentum activists for several years with Mr Corbyn in charge. One or two people that actually think through scenarios pipe up like Royston at the last AGM. He made some very good points.
Because so few people vote and understand the arguments the activists control the voting and the agenda. Minor interests activists dominate. This is not necessarily a bad thing I should add.
Activists like Chief with a weak grasp of business rule the roost with persistent peddling of fake narratives and the party line. Posters often suggest the US people of being prone sharp practice for example and use pejorative names like 'Yank' and 'sell out'. People put Dr in their monikers to give themselves extra gravitas.
Every one thought "investment" was good right?. In the Trust world Investment is a hostile act because it leads to dilution. The Trust needs 'protection from dilution'. This means controlling decision making to prevent investment from outside. Exeter city in reality.
You are probably all for investment but against dilution right? They are mutually exclusive. If there is investment there must be dilution. Do you understand? No one agrees with me because they do not understand what I am saying.
What should have happened was the Trust had a strategy of cashing in in the Premier league. They could have ensured this by publicly putting themselves on the market backed by a mandate from the members. This would be called a 'long term strategy'.
They had a different strategy, Under the sale strategy the other sellers would have had confidence in them, With £15m in the bank and a 5% holding they could invest £1 in every £19 invested by others. Their holding was always "high risk". It is now most probably "Too late" to make up for their mistakes.
They will never see the £21m even with a court win. I suggest they go "all in Burnley". Fans and members understand football. They should not put faith in English Justice system which few understand. Put your faith in Flynn Downes not a Judge who might not fully understand the opinion of the east stand Ultras.
The Trust needs a long term plan devised preferably by a business consultant.
Wrexham was owned by their Trust for two decades or so operating under the same rules are Swansea's Trust presumably With no investments no loans no outside investors they declined and got taken over by apathy and disinterest. All their young players were poached by the big urban giants. Neco Williams for example. They found few if any local business partners for good reason. The actors probably considered including the Wrexham Trust in heir team but their advisors quickly blocked that idea I suspect.
They ended up handing over their club for free to American and Canadian. These guys have less money than Levien and Kaplan and have invested less than them. Reynold's and co £2m. Levien and Co £10m. Wrexham are buying lower league 30 year old battlers. Swansea 21 year old prospects.
This is my preferred narrative. Yours is different.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 17:33]
Do you think anyone's going to bother reading all that?
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 17:31 - Feb 6 by Chief
Do you think anyone's going to bother reading all that?
I logged out so I could see it and after reading " I got 4 votes" I went no further.
How does 4 votes mean anything? I got more votes than him and I'd withdrawn, told people not to vote for me, that must mean my opinion is sacrosanct eh? It's illogical to believe that 4 votes in a meaningless POTY contest mean those people agree with him about the trust?
Do the people who voted for me and you agree with us about everything? It's delusional.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:14 - Feb 6 by Catullus
I logged out so I could see it and after reading " I got 4 votes" I went no further.
How does 4 votes mean anything? I got more votes than him and I'd withdrawn, told people not to vote for me, that must mean my opinion is sacrosanct eh? It's illogical to believe that 4 votes in a meaningless POTY contest mean those people agree with him about the trust?
Do the people who voted for me and you agree with us about everything? It's delusional.
People were telling me I had no one agreeing with me. Well four voted for me. (two changed their mind) You are a very popular poster. Keep your nose clean do not ask too many questions. A 'go with the flow' sort of poster.
You believe the Trust are good for Swansea city. I believe they are bad for Swansea city and give reasons. In my opinion they have no money because they make bad decisions. I am entitled to say this. I blame nobody but the members.
They cannot invest and get minimal returns on their money. Giving them more to rot away makes no sense in my opinion. With inflation at 5% its money devalues at 5%. pa. 5% compounded for 10 years is over 40% Only Resloven talks like this.
Wrexham Trust ran their club. No money no local business partners no investments. The Trust system does not work well in most cases. In the end Wrexham Trust gave up and gave their club away for free. Swansea Trust if anything is likely to be worse.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 22:25 - Feb 6 with 578 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:58 - Feb 6 by ReslovenSwan1
People were telling me I had no one agreeing with me. Well four voted for me. (two changed their mind) You are a very popular poster. Keep your nose clean do not ask too many questions. A 'go with the flow' sort of poster.
You believe the Trust are good for Swansea city. I believe they are bad for Swansea city and give reasons. In my opinion they have no money because they make bad decisions. I am entitled to say this. I blame nobody but the members.
They cannot invest and get minimal returns on their money. Giving them more to rot away makes no sense in my opinion. With inflation at 5% its money devalues at 5%. pa. 5% compounded for 10 years is over 40% Only Resloven talks like this.
Wrexham Trust ran their club. No money no local business partners no investments. The Trust system does not work well in most cases. In the end Wrexham Trust gave up and gave their club away for free. Swansea Trust if anything is likely to be worse.
The Wrexham Trust rescued the club and ran it better than the previous owners. They actually managed to reduce the club debt at the same time. As mentioned many a time previously do your research on the purpose of a supporters trust. The Swansea Trust are not pushing to takeover, but they will be there if the proverbial hit the fan.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:16 - Feb 7 with 532 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 21:14 - Feb 6 by Catullus
I logged out so I could see it and after reading " I got 4 votes" I went no further.
How does 4 votes mean anything? I got more votes than him and I'd withdrawn, told people not to vote for me, that must mean my opinion is sacrosanct eh? It's illogical to believe that 4 votes in a meaningless POTY contest mean those people agree with him about the trust?
Do the people who voted for me and you agree with us about everything? It's delusional.
One of the votes was from me for a laugh too!!!
Are we all sure we aren't dealing a with parody account? Bringing up the amount of votes they got in a poster of the year poll
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:16 - Feb 7 by Chief
One of the votes was from me for a laugh too!!!
Are we all sure we aren't dealing a with parody account? Bringing up the amount of votes they got in a poster of the year poll
Got to say chief despite others from elsewhere who continue to say you aren’t valued on here I thought you should have won it. Maybe Builthy will doff his cap to you on the handing over ceremony next year.
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:29 - Feb 7 by KeithHaynes
Got to say chief despite others from elsewhere who continue to say you aren’t valued on here I thought you should have won it. Maybe Builthy will doff his cap to you on the handing over ceremony next year.
Myself and the Chief will put a plan together at the next Wales game.
Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 07:44 - Feb 7 with 474 views
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 01:16 - Feb 7 by Chief
One of the votes was from me for a laugh too!!!
Are we all sure we aren't dealing a with parody account? Bringing up the amount of votes they got in a poster of the year poll
To be fair I think he has a point.
If he goes to the Trust and says, ''Look boys, everyone knows I'm against legal action... and I got 4 votes in the poster of the year heats, maybe you should re-consider?''
I reckon he would have a case, would certainly be food for thought for the Trust.
[Post edited 7 Feb 2022 7:52]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
How much is the club worth/valued at now? on 07:51 - Feb 7 by Dr_Parnassus
Although without wanting to be too unkind, it appears he is off by a good 50%.
One from Chief and one from himself I would have thought...
I did highlight Doc, that i lost two votes after a week. Not sure people should be allowed to change their minds, to be honest . I was quite keen to get more votes than 'The Chief'. I believe they were lobbied to change their votes.
As part of my "code of practice " I believe in full disclosure and we in Resolven are open minded and willing to correct any post found to be factually incorrect.
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