| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:22 - Oct 28 with 964 views | RichardO |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:17 - Oct 28 by Dr_Winston |
Are people genuinely claiming that RM has altered the process under orders? Oh my.
What is more likely?
A. Martin finally realised after a year of dogmatism that what he was insisting upon wasn't working and that he had to change his system, but is a bit sheepish about it so doesn't want to come out and admit that so is basically claiming that this was the end plan all along, or;
B. He's been instructed from above (who would have the knowledge or authority to do so remains unclear) to change his entire professional outlook when no such thing previously happened in the more than a year he's been here already. Not only that, apparently he's been ordered to change his keeper. He's gone along with this entirely peacefully and quietly, which is entirely in line with the placid, non-antagonistic approach he's shown to others previously, mostly players.
If you genuinely believe that "B" is even remotely the most likely scenario, then I've got some magic beans to sell you. |
Will the beans help us climb to the top of the table to that elusive pot of gold🤔 |  | |  |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:25 - Oct 28 with 958 views | Whiterockin |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:22 - Oct 28 by RichardO |
Will the beans help us climb to the top of the table to that elusive pot of gold🤔 |
The seeds have been planted and we have some shoots of progress but who knows what the harvest will be like. |  | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:01 - Oct 28 with 890 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:17 - Oct 28 by Dr_Winston |
Are people genuinely claiming that RM has altered the process under orders? Oh my.
What is more likely?
A. Martin finally realised after a year of dogmatism that what he was insisting upon wasn't working and that he had to change his system, but is a bit sheepish about it so doesn't want to come out and admit that so is basically claiming that this was the end plan all along, or;
B. He's been instructed from above (who would have the knowledge or authority to do so remains unclear) to change his entire professional outlook when no such thing previously happened in the more than a year he's been here already. Not only that, apparently he's been ordered to change his keeper. He's gone along with this entirely peacefully and quietly, which is entirely in line with the placid, non-antagonistic approach he's shown to others previously, mostly players.
If you genuinely believe that "B" is even remotely the most likely scenario, then I've got some magic beans to sell you. |
Not necessarily under orders, but being told in no uncertain terms that the level of performance is not good enough and he is close to the edge of the cliff - and thus feeling forced to change his beloved style.
I think that’s probably more plausible than him having an epiphany personally. I guess we will know depending on if he goes back to it now he has some breathing room. He did last season under the same circumstances.
I think if you think the second option then those magic beans may be back in your possession pretty quickly  |  |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:06 - Oct 28 with 896 views | magicdaps10 |
New contract talks under way for Martin and a new one on the cards for Oli Cooper. |  |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 16:30 - Oct 28 with 839 views | Whiterockin |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:06 - Oct 28 by magicdaps10 |
New contract talks under way for Martin and a new one on the cards for Oli Cooper. |
Good to hear that Cooper has signed his. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:47 - Oct 28 with 804 views | cockett_jack |
It’s a results based business and we’ve just done the triple and sit in fourth. We have to be some of the most pretentious/unrealistic fans in the pyramid. Hope he gets his reward. |  | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:50 - Oct 28 with 800 views | STID2017 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:17 - Oct 28 by Dr_Winston |
Are people genuinely claiming that RM has altered the process under orders? Oh my.
What is more likely?
A. Martin finally realised after a year of dogmatism that what he was insisting upon wasn't working and that he had to change his system, but is a bit sheepish about it so doesn't want to come out and admit that so is basically claiming that this was the end plan all along, or;
B. He's been instructed from above (who would have the knowledge or authority to do so remains unclear) to change his entire professional outlook when no such thing previously happened in the more than a year he's been here already. Not only that, apparently he's been ordered to change his keeper. He's gone along with this entirely peacefully and quietly, which is entirely in line with the placid, non-antagonistic approach he's shown to others previously, mostly players.
If you genuinely believe that "B" is even remotely the most likely scenario, then I've got some magic beans to sell you. |
As you say, I think he is sensible enough to have followed the course of option A.
Not that option B is a realistic option |  |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:52 - Oct 28 with 796 views | STID2017 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:47 - Oct 28 by cockett_jack |
It’s a results based business and we’ve just done the triple and sit in fourth. We have to be some of the most pretentious/unrealistic fans in the pyramid. Hope he gets his reward. |
Excellent post | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:53 - Oct 28 with 795 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:17 - Oct 28 by Dr_Winston |
Are people genuinely claiming that RM has altered the process under orders? Oh my.
What is more likely?
A. Martin finally realised after a year of dogmatism that what he was insisting upon wasn't working and that he had to change his system, but is a bit sheepish about it so doesn't want to come out and admit that so is basically claiming that this was the end plan all along, or;
B. He's been instructed from above (who would have the knowledge or authority to do so remains unclear) to change his entire professional outlook when no such thing previously happened in the more than a year he's been here already. Not only that, apparently he's been ordered to change his keeper. He's gone along with this entirely peacefully and quietly, which is entirely in line with the placid, non-antagonistic approach he's shown to others previously, mostly players.
If you genuinely believe that "B" is even remotely the most likely scenario, then I've got some magic beans to sell you. |
I don’t think many people actually believe it’s B.
Sometimes, it’s just any excuse to throw a bit of shade at Russell Martin.
‘Yeah, he’s doing well, but maybe he’s been forced to change to tactics or told his job is at risk…’
He’s never, ever going to come out and say the way he wanted to play wasn’t working but he still stuck with it for over a year. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 18:50 - Oct 28 with 769 views | RichardO |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 17:53 - Oct 28 by jack247 |
I don’t think many people actually believe it’s B.
Sometimes, it’s just any excuse to throw a bit of shade at Russell Martin.
‘Yeah, he’s doing well, but maybe he’s been forced to change to tactics or told his job is at risk…’
He’s never, ever going to come out and say the way he wanted to play wasn’t working but he still stuck with it for over a year. |
Plan C same as before as shown against Cardiff in first 10mins of game with the quick five yard goal kick by the quick thinking Benda to Darling who was not aware what was happening. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 19:15 - Oct 28 with 745 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 18:50 - Oct 28 by RichardO |
Plan C same as before as shown against Cardiff in first 10mins of game with the quick five yard goal kick by the quick thinking Benda to Darling who was not aware what was happening. |
We haven’t stopped playing it out from the back. We just don’t play stupid, intricate triangles in our own danger area, leave defenders (often Naughton) hopelessly exposed and we clear it when we need to.
If Darling switched off for a second, that isn’t something anyone other than him can really legislate for. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 00:26 - Oct 29 with 707 views | RichardO |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 19:15 - Oct 28 by jack247 |
We haven’t stopped playing it out from the back. We just don’t play stupid, intricate triangles in our own danger area, leave defenders (often Naughton) hopelessly exposed and we clear it when we need to.
If Darling switched off for a second, that isn’t something anyone other than him can really legislate for. |
Your right we haven't stopped playing the passing game, which at times as been very effective.
If the opposition applies the high press then it is up to the players on the field to realise that the opposition has now left gaps further up the field which with accurate goal kicks can be exploited.
Every players should be evaluating everything that is happening on the pitch for the 90 mins and more. It would appear some players have a loss of concentration and are distracted by following order rather than reacting to any given moment on the pitch. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 01:15 - Oct 29 with 695 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 19:15 - Oct 28 by jack247 |
We haven’t stopped playing it out from the back. We just don’t play stupid, intricate triangles in our own danger area, leave defenders (often Naughton) hopelessly exposed and we clear it when we need to.
If Darling switched off for a second, that isn’t something anyone other than him can really legislate for. |
Martinball isn’t just “play it out from the back”.
It’s an intense focus on possession, short passes at all times, refusal to go long, lack of width and pace focussing on central 2 yard passes back and forth 800 times a game, pedestrian pace, elaborate goal kick routines just for effect, keeper being central focus of defensive possession unit, dangerous passes in front of our own goal….
Us “still playing it out from the back” is the thin thread of what Martinball has left. We played it out from the back many times under Cooper too, wouldn’t call this similar to Cooperball though.
There is no shade being thrown at him, it’s simply common sense and fact. He was devoted to his old style and it changed overnight when he had one foot out the door. Had he wanted to change previously then he would have.
Certainly doesn’t seem it’s a labour of love, does it? Especially as he’s denying its even happened bizarrely. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 05:44 - Oct 29 with 680 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 01:15 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Martinball isn’t just “play it out from the back”.
It’s an intense focus on possession, short passes at all times, refusal to go long, lack of width and pace focussing on central 2 yard passes back and forth 800 times a game, pedestrian pace, elaborate goal kick routines just for effect, keeper being central focus of defensive possession unit, dangerous passes in front of our own goal….
Us “still playing it out from the back” is the thin thread of what Martinball has left. We played it out from the back many times under Cooper too, wouldn’t call this similar to Cooperball though.
There is no shade being thrown at him, it’s simply common sense and fact. He was devoted to his old style and it changed overnight when he had one foot out the door. Had he wanted to change previously then he would have.
Certainly doesn’t seem it’s a labour of love, does it? Especially as he’s denying its even happened bizarrely. |
I think you’ve misinterpreted me there.
I’m not suggesting Martinball V1 was just play it out from the back. Nor am I going to pretend there haven’t been some pretty significant changes to the way we play which coincided with a dramatic upturn in results. Anyone who does is either deluding themselves, or is saying it to antagonise.
I was just referring to Richards point about a short goal kick that could have gone belly up
because a defender switched off.
Martinball V2 is much more like V1 than the football we played under Cooper. We’re still a passing team, our wingbacks are still frequently level with the striker, our defenders still carry the ball deep into the opponents half (this happened under Cooper but far less often),
What we have done is eliminated the suicidal passing in and around our own box, introduced quicker transitions from defence to attack and given licence for players to try things that are likely to lose us possession, but may result in a chance. We’ve consequentially improved in both final thirds.
Nothing to suggest he had.a foot out the door. We dipped into the relegation zone briefly after a run of last minute defeats and equalisers. I think this was around the end of August. Several teams have done that this season and not sacked their manager. A few people who claim insider knowledge have stated he was very unlikely to lose his job this season.
He will always have an asterisk next to his name for some and there will always be some way to denigrate any success he might achieve. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 06:55 - Oct 29 with 657 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 05:44 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
I think you’ve misinterpreted me there.
I’m not suggesting Martinball V1 was just play it out from the back. Nor am I going to pretend there haven’t been some pretty significant changes to the way we play which coincided with a dramatic upturn in results. Anyone who does is either deluding themselves, or is saying it to antagonise.
I was just referring to Richards point about a short goal kick that could have gone belly up
because a defender switched off.
Martinball V2 is much more like V1 than the football we played under Cooper. We’re still a passing team, our wingbacks are still frequently level with the striker, our defenders still carry the ball deep into the opponents half (this happened under Cooper but far less often),
What we have done is eliminated the suicidal passing in and around our own box, introduced quicker transitions from defence to attack and given licence for players to try things that are likely to lose us possession, but may result in a chance. We’ve consequentially improved in both final thirds.
Nothing to suggest he had.a foot out the door. We dipped into the relegation zone briefly after a run of last minute defeats and equalisers. I think this was around the end of August. Several teams have done that this season and not sacked their manager. A few people who claim insider knowledge have stated he was very unlikely to lose his job this season.
He will always have an asterisk next to his name for some and there will always be some way to denigrate any success he might achieve. |
He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had. This site is heavily pro Martin and yet even the articles here conceded we could be seeing the end.
5 points from our first 6 games and completely rudderless, worse than the awful rubbish we saw last season. It was very nearly trigger time.
Overnight suddenly he changed philosophy, a philosophy he’s banged on about for 3 and a half years. We went from 800 passes to 400 passes, from 4% long balls to 16% long balls, from 75% possession to 50% possession - these were numbers being seen under Coops that had so many up in arms, we used to pass under Cooper contrary to popular belief.
Yet he has denied anything has changed.
If that was his brainchild - logic would state he would be screaming that from the rooftops as opposed to denying its changed. I think that’s entirely logical as opposed to people throwing shade, as claimed. [Post edited 29 Oct 2022 6:56]
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 07:31 - Oct 29 with 659 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 06:55 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had. This site is heavily pro Martin and yet even the articles here conceded we could be seeing the end.
5 points from our first 6 games and completely rudderless, worse than the awful rubbish we saw last season. It was very nearly trigger time.
Overnight suddenly he changed philosophy, a philosophy he’s banged on about for 3 and a half years. We went from 800 passes to 400 passes, from 4% long balls to 16% long balls, from 75% possession to 50% possession - these were numbers being seen under Coops that had so many up in arms, we used to pass under Cooper contrary to popular belief.
Yet he has denied anything has changed.
If that was his brainchild - logic would state he would be screaming that from the rooftops as opposed to denying its changed. I think that’s entirely logical as opposed to people throwing shade, as claimed. [Post edited 29 Oct 2022 6:56]
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Papers were drawn up? You know that for sure?
No manager is ever going to admit he’s been getting it wrong for his entire (short in the case) career and has now come up with a winning formula. You’ll be doubting him his entire career if you’re going to doubt him until he says that.
It wasn’t the numbers that had people up in arms under Cooper, it was the football we were playing. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 08:50 - Oct 29 with 632 views | magicdaps10 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 01:15 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Martinball isn’t just “play it out from the back”.
It’s an intense focus on possession, short passes at all times, refusal to go long, lack of width and pace focussing on central 2 yard passes back and forth 800 times a game, pedestrian pace, elaborate goal kick routines just for effect, keeper being central focus of defensive possession unit, dangerous passes in front of our own goal….
Us “still playing it out from the back” is the thin thread of what Martinball has left. We played it out from the back many times under Cooper too, wouldn’t call this similar to Cooperball though.
There is no shade being thrown at him, it’s simply common sense and fact. He was devoted to his old style and it changed overnight when he had one foot out the door. Had he wanted to change previously then he would have.
Certainly doesn’t seem it’s a labour of love, does it? Especially as he’s denying its even happened bizarrely. |
It's not a focus on possessions, it's about not wasting the ball, looking after it and recycling the ball if there is nothing on.
You rely on data too much when football is a lot more complex than just numbers on a piece of paper. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 08:53 - Oct 29 with 631 views | Boundy |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 07:31 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
Papers were drawn up? You know that for sure?
No manager is ever going to admit he’s been getting it wrong for his entire (short in the case) career and has now come up with a winning formula. You’ll be doubting him his entire career if you’re going to doubt him until he says that.
It wasn’t the numbers that had people up in arms under Cooper, it was the football we were playing. |
My boss continually tells his staff “if it’s not written down and you haven’t seen it then it didn’t happen “ | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:07 - Oct 29 with 620 views | Whiterockin |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 06:55 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had. This site is heavily pro Martin and yet even the articles here conceded we could be seeing the end.
5 points from our first 6 games and completely rudderless, worse than the awful rubbish we saw last season. It was very nearly trigger time.
Overnight suddenly he changed philosophy, a philosophy he’s banged on about for 3 and a half years. We went from 800 passes to 400 passes, from 4% long balls to 16% long balls, from 75% possession to 50% possession - these were numbers being seen under Coops that had so many up in arms, we used to pass under Cooper contrary to popular belief.
Yet he has denied anything has changed.
If that was his brainchild - logic would state he would be screaming that from the rooftops as opposed to denying its changed. I think that’s entirely logical as opposed to people throwing shade, as claimed. [Post edited 29 Oct 2022 6:56]
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He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had.
A ridiculous statement to make and completely untrue. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:24 - Oct 29 with 594 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 07:31 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
Papers were drawn up? You know that for sure?
No manager is ever going to admit he’s been getting it wrong for his entire (short in the case) career and has now come up with a winning formula. You’ll be doubting him his entire career if you’re going to doubt him until he says that.
It wasn’t the numbers that had people up in arms under Cooper, it was the football we were playing. |
I do know if for a fact, it was also the case last year when he also changed tactics and went on a run, papers drawn up then too and managed to save himself with some form.
He doesn’t have to say he’s got it wrong most of his career, just comment on the changes. What enforces them, what he believes about them, what he likes about them, why he thinks it’s the right way forward etc etc
Under Cooper we played well enough to get back to back play off finishes with a pretty disjointed and poorly invested squad. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:26 - Oct 29 with 592 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:07 - Oct 29 by Whiterockin |
He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had.
A ridiculous statement to make and completely untrue. |
I don’t do the ridiculous, I tend to leave that to others - It’s absolutely true.
Whether you like it or not is an irrelevance to that fact.
Not for the first time papers were drawn up and discussions on future direction was had, as mentioned above - it happened last season too. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:30 - Oct 29 with 587 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 08:50 - Oct 29 by magicdaps10 |
It's not a focus on possessions, it's about not wasting the ball, looking after it and recycling the ball if there is nothing on.
You rely on data too much when football is a lot more complex than just numbers on a piece of paper. |
You seem to have recently discovered the word “recycle” in football and trying to use it in every discussion.
Daps, recycling the ball is what all teams do and what we were being taught when we were 10 years old, it’s nothing new.
I and other top football thinkers use data to show what we are saying to be true, Pep will agree on the importance of them… hence why he has around 12 data analysts constantly feeding him with up to the minute data from training to conditioning to match days. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:33 - Oct 29 with 589 views | nantywatcher |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:07 - Oct 29 by Whiterockin |
He certainly had one foot out the door, papers were drawn up, serious conversations being had.
A ridiculous statement to make and completely untrue. |
"Something" certainly happened. After three years of football management, from out of nowhere he suddenly realised that the "best" players in his squad should be on the pitch not in the dressing room. It took my breath away when I arrived at the stadium and saw Benda selected for the first time. Someone , somewhere forced some common sense into his actions. And don't start me on his treatment of Jay. Anyway that's in the past, we're good to watch nowadays long may it continue. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:36 - Oct 29 with 580 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:33 - Oct 29 by nantywatcher |
"Something" certainly happened. After three years of football management, from out of nowhere he suddenly realised that the "best" players in his squad should be on the pitch not in the dressing room. It took my breath away when I arrived at the stadium and saw Benda selected for the first time. Someone , somewhere forced some common sense into his actions. And don't start me on his treatment of Jay. Anyway that's in the past, we're good to watch nowadays long may it continue. |
Don’t bring common sense into it. People get annoyed when the obvious is laid bare.
We have to all pretend it was part of the plan and there is absolutely nothing odd about 3 and a half years of ridiculous mantra being thrown out of the window - perfectly normal and expected behaviour… apparently. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:41 - Oct 29 with 581 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:24 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
I do know if for a fact, it was also the case last year when he also changed tactics and went on a run, papers drawn up then too and managed to save himself with some form.
He doesn’t have to say he’s got it wrong most of his career, just comment on the changes. What enforces them, what he believes about them, what he likes about them, why he thinks it’s the right way forward etc etc
Under Cooper we played well enough to get back to back play off finishes with a pretty disjointed and poorly invested squad. |
Fair enough. It just completely contradicts what a few others in privileged positions have said about him being very unlikely to be sacked this season. 6 games in as well, I think that was about the time Stoke pulled the trigger and they were the first in the division.
It’s effectively the sane thing. Up until early September, he had played the same way for his season and a bit here (albeit with formation tweaks). As far as I’m aware it was very similar at MK Dons. It would be a tacit admission that didn’t work. I don’t think he has the humility for that and I don’t think many other managers would either.
You can’t argue with Coopers points tally. It’s why I was in the fence, veering towards wanting him to stay after the playoff final. I said people were in up in arns (quoting you not my words) with the football we were playing. It actually became a chore going to the stadium knowing we were going to play defensively and hope to nick a 1-0 at home.
In fairness, it was worse under Clement and Carhaval in our last PL season. | | | |
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