| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:47 - Oct 29 with 852 views | Sirjohnalot |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:41 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
Fair enough. It just completely contradicts what a few others in privileged positions have said about him being very unlikely to be sacked this season. 6 games in as well, I think that was about the time Stoke pulled the trigger and they were the first in the division.
It’s effectively the sane thing. Up until early September, he had played the same way for his season and a bit here (albeit with formation tweaks). As far as I’m aware it was very similar at MK Dons. It would be a tacit admission that didn’t work. I don’t think he has the humility for that and I don’t think many other managers would either.
You can’t argue with Coopers points tally. It’s why I was in the fence, veering towards wanting him to stay after the playoff final. I said people were in up in arns (quoting you not my words) with the football we were playing. It actually became a chore going to the stadium knowing we were going to play defensively and hope to nick a 1-0 at home.
In fairness, it was worse under Clement and Carhaval in our last PL season. |
Would honestly prefer playing great football in the championship than the bore fest under cooper in the prem. god awful stuff. |  | |  |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:57 - Oct 29 with 840 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:47 - Oct 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Would honestly prefer playing great football in the championship than the bore fest under cooper in the prem. god awful stuff. |
I’m divided on it. The most important thing for me is success, even if that’s scraping enough 0-0s to stay up, like in our penultimate PL season.
Entertainment value is huge as well,though, that season under Potter was a breath of fresh air after the two before it.
In fairness to Cooper, the football was formulaic and turgid, but it was nowhere near as bad as Clements. |  | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:02 - Oct 29 with 837 views | GixerJack |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:30 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
You seem to have recently discovered the word “recycle” in football and trying to use it in every discussion.
Daps, recycling the ball is what all teams do and what we were being taught when we were 10 years old, it’s nothing new.
I and other top football thinkers use data to show what we are saying to be true, Pep will agree on the importance of them… hence why he has around 12 data analysts constantly feeding him with up to the minute data from training to conditioning to match days. |
“I and other top football thinkers”??
I’m not sure if that was meant to read the way I read it but it made me smile |  | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:08 - Oct 29 with 826 views | Dr_Winston |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:57 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
I’m divided on it. The most important thing for me is success, even if that’s scraping enough 0-0s to stay up, like in our penultimate PL season.
Entertainment value is huge as well,though, that season under Potter was a breath of fresh air after the two before it.
In fairness to Cooper, the football was formulaic and turgid, but it was nowhere near as bad as Clements. |
Problem is if you play crap football decline is inevitable anyway.
We were perfectly comfortable in the Prem until Garry Monk got hold of us and started f*cking around with what had worked just fine for nearly a decade. Sure, in the short term we did OK, but even Stoke finished sixth under Pulis once.
As soon as it became entrenched we became just another Premier League team. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:45 - Oct 29 with 795 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:08 - Oct 29 by Dr_Winston |
Problem is if you play crap football decline is inevitable anyway.
We were perfectly comfortable in the Prem until Garry Monk got hold of us and started f*cking around with what had worked just fine for nearly a decade. Sure, in the short term we did OK, but even Stoke finished sixth under Pulis once.
As soon as it became entrenched we became just another Premier League team. |
Agreed.
As soon as you become an identikit PL struggler and play the same percentage football others at the bottom do, it becomes a battle of resources. Odds were always against us then. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:47 - Oct 29 with 786 views | onehunglow |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:47 - Oct 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Would honestly prefer playing great football in the championship than the bore fest under cooper in the prem. god awful stuff. |
Top table for me | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:53 - Oct 29 with 765 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:41 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
Fair enough. It just completely contradicts what a few others in privileged positions have said about him being very unlikely to be sacked this season. 6 games in as well, I think that was about the time Stoke pulled the trigger and they were the first in the division.
It’s effectively the sane thing. Up until early September, he had played the same way for his season and a bit here (albeit with formation tweaks). As far as I’m aware it was very similar at MK Dons. It would be a tacit admission that didn’t work. I don’t think he has the humility for that and I don’t think many other managers would either.
You can’t argue with Coopers points tally. It’s why I was in the fence, veering towards wanting him to stay after the playoff final. I said people were in up in arns (quoting you not my words) with the football we were playing. It actually became a chore going to the stadium knowing we were going to play defensively and hope to nick a 1-0 at home.
In fairness, it was worse under Clement and Carhaval in our last PL season. |
Who is in a privileged position that has said otherwise? Not really 6 games in, it was his 53rd game in charge or something; including cup games and we had a handful of decent performances with most of them looking utterly hopeless.
Cooper had the unfortunate task of playing in front of empty stands, football in general was awful during covid. Many people of all clubs still haven’t fallen back in love with the game, and that’s for the most entertaining teams in the land.
Cooper was vastly over criticised considering what he delivered, Martin is vastly over praised considering what he has. There needs to be more honesty when discussing where we are, and this nonsense that this is all part of his genius plan is just tiresome - there is a reason he has done a U-turn on his style he’s banged on about for 3 years straight.. what that is will be widely talked about. |  |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:55 - Oct 29 with 770 views | Dr_Winston |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:47 - Oct 29 by onehunglow |
Top table for me |
Well yeah. You'd cheerfully see us managed by Neil Warnock with Andy Carroll upfront as long as we were playing Premier League games that you wouldn't go to anyway.
Those of us who have to watch the games are a little more discerning on the whole. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:56 - Oct 29 with 762 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 09:47 - Oct 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Would honestly prefer playing great football in the championship than the bore fest under cooper in the prem. god awful stuff. |
But great football is certainly not what we have seen under Martin for the vast majority of his tenure so it was never ‘either or’.
I want to see this club being the very best it can be and competing with the very best, that will never be boring to me.
We aren’t the Harlem Globetrotters. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:57 - Oct 29 with 760 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:02 - Oct 29 by GixerJack |
“I and other top football thinkers”??
I’m not sure if that was meant to read the way I read it but it made me smile |
It was meant as you read it. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:00 - Oct 29 with 756 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:45 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
Agreed.
As soon as you become an identikit PL struggler and play the same percentage football others at the bottom do, it becomes a battle of resources. Odds were always against us then. |
How can you agree with that?
It’s patently false and a tired and lazy rewriting of our history.
We were clearly heading for the trap door under Laudrup. He still remains one of our worst league managers in recent history.
We were going at least than a point a game for his last 25 games or something like that. We were utterly dreadful. People look back at Laudrups era with flowers in their eyes, the majority of his tenure was far from it, the first 6 months was spectacular - the rest was eye wateringly bad at times. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:08 - Oct 29 with 749 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:53 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Who is in a privileged position that has said otherwise? Not really 6 games in, it was his 53rd game in charge or something; including cup games and we had a handful of decent performances with most of them looking utterly hopeless.
Cooper had the unfortunate task of playing in front of empty stands, football in general was awful during covid. Many people of all clubs still haven’t fallen back in love with the game, and that’s for the most entertaining teams in the land.
Cooper was vastly over criticised considering what he delivered, Martin is vastly over praised considering what he has. There needs to be more honesty when discussing where we are, and this nonsense that this is all part of his genius plan is just tiresome - there is a reason he has done a U-turn on his style he’s banged on about for 3 years straight.. what that is will be widely talked about. |
You don’t need to use the pandemic to excuse the insipid football we played under Cooper. He got results and they justify the means.
Don’t attribute the nonsense about it being part of a 3 year plan to me. I don’t buy that for a second.
I know a couple of people who work at the club and they have both said they never heard a whisper about his job being under threat. Neither work in any kind of senior role, so I’m not pretending they attend board meetings or have any authority, but I’d have thought they’d have heard rumours.
So are we saying his job wasn’t under thread after 47 games and he was allowed to plan for and start the season playing the old way, but the finger was on the trigger by late August? | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:14 - Oct 29 with 736 views | ploppy |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:02 - Oct 29 by GixerJack |
“I and other top football thinkers”??
I’m not sure if that was meant to read the way I read it but it made me smile |
Made me laugh out loud | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:21 - Oct 29 with 717 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:08 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
You don’t need to use the pandemic to excuse the insipid football we played under Cooper. He got results and they justify the means.
Don’t attribute the nonsense about it being part of a 3 year plan to me. I don’t buy that for a second.
I know a couple of people who work at the club and they have both said they never heard a whisper about his job being under threat. Neither work in any kind of senior role, so I’m not pretending they attend board meetings or have any authority, but I’d have thought they’d have heard rumours.
So are we saying his job wasn’t under thread after 47 games and he was allowed to plan for and start the season playing the old way, but the finger was on the trigger by late August? |
It’s not an excuse it’s a fact, football behind closed doors with no fans is awful. Players echoing around the stadium, fake noise, delayed silence with a goal. You can’t tell me you think it makes no difference? It was massive, I don’t think I watched a single top level match during that time either.
If the people you know aren’t high level then I don’t see why they would know if his job was under threat. But I’m telling you his job has not been safe for a very long time. Papers drawn up twice, once before the run at Xmas time (I believe as reported on here, id have to check) and once at the beginning of this season.
Both times he changed the style to get short term results, the first time he reverted back - the second time is still unwritten but I don’t think the signs are great with what we saw against Reading and I guess it’s hard to tell against Cardiff under the circumstances.
His job is certainly safe for now but if he reverts again and we go on another spiral then it won’t just be the smarter and more honest fans that will be fuming, put it that way. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:22 - Oct 29 with 722 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:00 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
How can you agree with that?
It’s patently false and a tired and lazy rewriting of our history.
We were clearly heading for the trap door under Laudrup. He still remains one of our worst league managers in recent history.
We were going at least than a point a game for his last 25 games or something like that. We were utterly dreadful. People look back at Laudrups era with flowers in their eyes, the majority of his tenure was far from it, the first 6 months was spectacular - the rest was eye wateringly bad at times. |
I wanted Laudrup sacked when we was. He lost interest and we were effectively neglected.
I actually thought Garry Monk was a decent choice, but with hindsight should have been on a caretaker, or end of that season basis.
Had we brought in a motivated, Laudrup/Rodgers/Martinez type we may not have survived any longer than we did, but at least watching Premier League football wouldn’t have become a chore (something I’d never have thought possible but Clement smashed it).
As soon as we started sticking everyone behind the ball and playing for 0-0 at home, the writing was on the wall. We were playing the same game as other teams with bigger budgets, better players and a better manager. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:25 - Oct 29 with 712 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:14 - Oct 29 by ploppy |
Made me laugh out loud |
It does with a lot of the lesser thinkers, that’s when the smart ones know they are correct. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:29 - Oct 29 with 711 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:21 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not an excuse it’s a fact, football behind closed doors with no fans is awful. Players echoing around the stadium, fake noise, delayed silence with a goal. You can’t tell me you think it makes no difference? It was massive, I don’t think I watched a single top level match during that time either.
If the people you know aren’t high level then I don’t see why they would know if his job was under threat. But I’m telling you his job has not been safe for a very long time. Papers drawn up twice, once before the run at Xmas time (I believe as reported on here, id have to check) and once at the beginning of this season.
Both times he changed the style to get short term results, the first time he reverted back - the second time is still unwritten but I don’t think the signs are great with what we saw against Reading and I guess it’s hard to tell against Cardiff under the circumstances.
His job is certainly safe for now but if he reverts again and we go on another spiral then it won’t just be the smarter and more honest fans that will be fuming, put it that way. |
I did’t say it makes no difference to the atmosphere. I am saying it doesn’t affect whether a manager sets up to play decent football or keep everything tight, play with two narrow wingers and no striker and hope Ayew can conjure something up.
Very rare that a club will go from the verge of sacking a manager to discussing a new contract within two months.
People who work at the club, albeit in junior roles, tend to have more access to people higher up in the club than fans on the internet. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:30 - Oct 29 with 706 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:22 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
I wanted Laudrup sacked when we was. He lost interest and we were effectively neglected.
I actually thought Garry Monk was a decent choice, but with hindsight should have been on a caretaker, or end of that season basis.
Had we brought in a motivated, Laudrup/Rodgers/Martinez type we may not have survived any longer than we did, but at least watching Premier League football wouldn’t have become a chore (something I’d never have thought possible but Clement smashed it).
As soon as we started sticking everyone behind the ball and playing for 0-0 at home, the writing was on the wall. We were playing the same game as other teams with bigger budgets, better players and a better manager. |
We were well overdue a decline, we got lucky with our signings for a long time. It had nothing to do with entertainment to what made us stay up.
The decline started under Laudrup who many say was our most entertaining manager. Monk staved off the rot for a little while but wasn’t talented enough to keep the rot away for long.
This flowery memory that some have of Laudrup and blaming Monk for the decline always makes me laugh.
Costs spiral the longer you stay there and the margins of error become smaller and smaller to the point clubs like us cannot ride it out. Brighton will go the same way in a couple of seasons regardless of the style of football they play, just like Leicester are finding out now despite having Brendan Rodgers as manager. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:35 - Oct 29 with 702 views | jack247 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:30 - Oct 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
We were well overdue a decline, we got lucky with our signings for a long time. It had nothing to do with entertainment to what made us stay up.
The decline started under Laudrup who many say was our most entertaining manager. Monk staved off the rot for a little while but wasn’t talented enough to keep the rot away for long.
This flowery memory that some have of Laudrup and blaming Monk for the decline always makes me laugh.
Costs spiral the longer you stay there and the margins of error become smaller and smaller to the point clubs like us cannot ride it out. Brighton will go the same way in a couple of seasons regardless of the style of football they play, just like Leicester are finding out now despite having Brendan Rodgers as manager. |
Undoubtedly. We’d have gone down either way eventually.
I’d have rather done it the way Brighton play than the way we did towards the end.
Logging off now, game starting soon. | | | |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:38 - Oct 29 with 698 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:29 - Oct 29 by jack247 |
I did’t say it makes no difference to the atmosphere. I am saying it doesn’t affect whether a manager sets up to play decent football or keep everything tight, play with two narrow wingers and no striker and hope Ayew can conjure something up.
Very rare that a club will go from the verge of sacking a manager to discussing a new contract within two months.
People who work at the club, albeit in junior roles, tend to have more access to people higher up in the club than fans on the internet. |
I’m not talking about atmosphere I’m talking about the game in general, it’s awful behind closed doors. I can’t think of a single good and enjoyable game without any fans and during covid times. It was a chore to watch any level of football.
Defensive football doesn’t mean it’s not entertaining, not entertaining to you maybe - but some of us love that kind of football. Jose Mourinho was a master of it at Porto and at Chelsea and their fans look back on it as some of the best days at the club. Not all football has to be passing for no reason, I find that mind numbing.
Depends what “fans on the internet” you are talking about I suppose. If you are comparing people at the club in junior roles to “fans on the internet” with contacts at the club in the form of senior players and even shareholders of the club, then I would have to disagree. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 11:43 - Oct 29 with 693 views | magicdaps10 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 10:02 - Oct 29 by GixerJack |
“I and other top football thinkers”??
I’m not sure if that was meant to read the way I read it but it made me smile |
That one made me smile.
Mind you, I think being told 25 years ago at 10 years of age to recycle the ball and the tactic recycling the ball isn't a new thing!
I can just see Brian Clough saying, recycle it Viv.....you and that fat winger have an overload on the right hand side 🙈
Could you imagine Peps face if at half time the computer lot came in with their laptops shouting out data to the players!? The footballing people talk about what they see with their own eyes, they call the computer guys in during the week.
I know plenty of footballing people and they would rather talk about football rather than get a laptop out and talk %s of a plauer/game. Proper football thinkers don't need data, they see the issues and advantages with their own eyes. |  |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 14:14 - Oct 29 with 609 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 14:12 - Oct 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Don’t call other peoples views ‘moronic’. How many more times ? |
If I feel a view is moronic then I shall say so.
Unless you think a view has feelings? There is a difference between calling someone a moron and calling a view moronic.
I won’t be subscribing to that newly formed rule I’m afraid. | |
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| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 14:21 - Oct 29 with 600 views | STID2017 |
| A New Contract For Russell Martin ? on 14:12 - Oct 29 by Sirjohnalot |
Don’t call other peoples views ‘moronic’. How many more times ? |
Seems some people need to learn more tolerance or stop posting.
To call people "moronic" ( literal meaning very foolish or stupid ) is wholly unacceptable.
We live in hope they may change, but such hope may be forlorn |  |
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