| It's sickening... on 20:30 - Mar 23 with 1843 views | Whiterockin |
There are an awful lot of people who have taken early retirement in those figures. |  | |  |
| It's sickening... on 20:45 - Mar 23 with 1836 views | Boundy |
| It's sickening... on 20:30 - Mar 23 by Whiterockin |
There are an awful lot of people who have taken early retirement in those figures. |
and I'm guessing a lot with mental health issues, caused by the interest rate rises , the cost of living "crisis" covid etc, all of which must have had/have an impact on peoples mental well being. This all of which was not the fault of the citizens affected , it never is . |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| It's sickening... on 20:50 - Mar 23 with 1833 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
What’s the point of working when you can have everything for free along with unlimited free time? |  |
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| It's sickening... on 21:03 - Mar 23 with 1824 views | Boundy |
| It's sickening... on 20:50 - Mar 23 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
What’s the point of working when you can have everything for free along with unlimited free time? |
If anyone thinks that claiming PIP for example is simply a tick box exercise is so wrong , there are more who fail to qualify than are accepted with a tightening up of the criteria ongoing. Of course there are some who will and do abuse the system but a lot are genuine and deserve the help they get .My anger is aimed towards a system which pays someone to sign a book for attendance purposes then bugger off home and still get paid . House of Lords for example | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| It's sickening... on 21:44 - Mar 23 with 1790 views | SullutaCreturned |
| It's sickening... on 21:03 - Mar 23 by Boundy |
If anyone thinks that claiming PIP for example is simply a tick box exercise is so wrong , there are more who fail to qualify than are accepted with a tightening up of the criteria ongoing. Of course there are some who will and do abuse the system but a lot are genuine and deserve the help they get .My anger is aimed towards a system which pays someone to sign a book for attendance purposes then bugger off home and still get paid . House of Lords for example |
And the House of Lords makes me more and more angry everyt time I see a new picture of some of them asleep in their seats. probably after they have had a blooming good meal and lots of alcohol which is heavily subsidised by the public purse.
Maybe a lot of these people are taking early retirement, the after effects of covid and thdesire to not spend more time working than needs be. It has still caused problems though. Employers have lost good staff and are struggling to replace them. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 23:32 - Mar 23 with 1741 views | majorraglan |
The problem is that it doesn’t pay some to work.
The benefits cap for a couple or lone parent during 23/24 was £1835 which is just over £22k per year, for a single person it was £14.5k. Minimum wage during 23/24 was £20k meaning that anyone working full time would take home £17.5k per year.
As far as I can see the benefits cap doesn’t include the following or council tax benefit (which is a big cost). It isn’t straightforward, but I can see why people would say it doesn’t pay to work!
Universal Credit.
Bereavement Allowance.
Child Benefit.
Child Tax Credit.
Employment and Support Allowance.
Housing Benefit.
Incapacity Benefit.
Income Support.
No one wants to see people in poverty, homeless etc, but there’s has to be a may to make work pay. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 06:44 - Mar 24 with 1702 views | felixstowe_jack |
| It's sickening... on 23:32 - Mar 23 by majorraglan |
The problem is that it doesn’t pay some to work.
The benefits cap for a couple or lone parent during 23/24 was £1835 which is just over £22k per year, for a single person it was £14.5k. Minimum wage during 23/24 was £20k meaning that anyone working full time would take home £17.5k per year.
As far as I can see the benefits cap doesn’t include the following or council tax benefit (which is a big cost). It isn’t straightforward, but I can see why people would say it doesn’t pay to work!
Universal Credit.
Bereavement Allowance.
Child Benefit.
Child Tax Credit.
Employment and Support Allowance.
Housing Benefit.
Incapacity Benefit.
Income Support.
No one wants to see people in poverty, homeless etc, but there’s has to be a may to make work pay. |
Simple cuts benefits significantly for those who refuse to work.
At current cost everyone who works pays £500 a year just to cover sickness benefits costs. | |
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| It's sickening... on 08:33 - Mar 24 with 1686 views | Treforys_Jack |
Getting paid to work is just the tip of the iceberg, it gives you esteem, self worth and a pride in yourself. I know a few people who can't work and they would give virtually anything to be well enough to do so, I also know a few others who have no intention of working when the state keeps them. |  | | |
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| It's sickening... on 09:06 - Mar 24 with 1670 views | AnotherJohn |
What strikes me about this issue is that, leaving aside any questions of blame or moral culpability, we now have so many people relying on public support that there is a real issue of affordability and sustainability. The question is quickly changing from: "Should we help people who have conditions that may make working difficult?" to "Can we find the resources needed to support such large numbers of economically inactive people who have no savings to support themselves?" Early retirement is fine if the retiree has saved enough to provide a viable income, but calculations that involve thinking benefits are enough to live on seem to me to be built on shaky foundations. I've spent quite a lot of time working in Asia and it is noticeable there that many who have incapacitating conditions or are past 65 are still working because there is no welfare state. Putting this another way: if we want to keep our welfare state then we need to find a way of aligning need for help with available resources. And for those who reply: "We are a rich country", please look at the graph for per capita productivity over time plus the figures for general government gross debt. [Post edited 24 Mar 15:41]
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| It's sickening... on 10:03 - Mar 24 with 1634 views | controversial_jack |
Where are these jobs that we have to get people back int? I see very little high value jobs that can pay a good living wage. Those jobs would require a high level of educational attainment which most claimants don't have. It's simplistic saying just cut benefits. What then, the kids go hungry? | | | |
| It's sickening... on 13:47 - Mar 24 with 1589 views | onehunglow |
Witness most kids now strolling along head down peering at a small screen
Oblivious to all outside | |
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| It's sickening... on 14:10 - Mar 24 with 1585 views | SullutaCreturned |
| It's sickening... on 13:47 - Mar 24 by onehunglow |
Witness most kids now strolling along head down peering at a small screen
Oblivious to all outside |
Not just kids! I see plwnty of adults not looking where they are walking. I see quite a few drivers who are clearly distracted by "something" too. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 14:22 - Mar 24 with 1567 views | onehunglow |
| It's sickening... on 14:10 - Mar 24 by SullutaCreturned |
Not just kids! I see plwnty of adults not looking where they are walking. I see quite a few drivers who are clearly distracted by "something" too. |
Fair point but have a look at any school bus.
Young ones,brought up in this age see it in almost human form | |
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| It's sickening... on 18:57 - Mar 24 with 1509 views | ModeratorC |
Got a sneaking suspicion that when my cousin took his life he didn’t have a bad back. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 19:36 - Mar 24 with 1480 views | Whiterockin |
| It's sickening... on 10:03 - Mar 24 by controversial_jack |
Where are these jobs that we have to get people back int? I see very little high value jobs that can pay a good living wage. Those jobs would require a high level of educational attainment which most claimants don't have. It's simplistic saying just cut benefits. What then, the kids go hungry? |
One of the biggest problems is second and third generation unemployment. Children in some households have never seen someone get up and go to work, it's normal to them. An issue here is if a child gets a job often their parents benefits are cut, so there is no encouragement for them. It's all about aspirations and the young wanting to achieve instead of staying in the family rut.
As for jobs not being available paying a good living wage. It's not only a good education required but it is often experience required as well. Quite often you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 19:47 - Mar 24 with 1465 views | Gwyn737 |
| It's sickening... on 19:36 - Mar 24 by Whiterockin |
One of the biggest problems is second and third generation unemployment. Children in some households have never seen someone get up and go to work, it's normal to them. An issue here is if a child gets a job often their parents benefits are cut, so there is no encouragement for them. It's all about aspirations and the young wanting to achieve instead of staying in the family rut.
As for jobs not being available paying a good living wage. It's not only a good education required but it is often experience required as well. Quite often you need to start at the bottom and work your way up. |
I think that last paragraph is really important.
We’ve seen that cutting benefits doesn’t really work, we should be trying making sure working pays by making sure the wages are better. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 19:59 - Mar 24 with 1445 views | Whiterockin |
| It's sickening... on 19:47 - Mar 24 by Gwyn737 |
I think that last paragraph is really important.
We’ve seen that cutting benefits doesn’t really work, we should be trying making sure working pays by making sure the wages are better. |
The national living wage is £ 11.44 for over 21s next month up over £1 an hour. Not an incredible wage but still £450 a week for a 40 hour week, with a knock on up the pay grades. It has to be a fine balance otherwise staff will be too expensive and businesses will think about employing staff. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 20:25 - Mar 24 with 1427 views | SullutaCreturned |
| It's sickening... on 19:59 - Mar 24 by Whiterockin |
The national living wage is £ 11.44 for over 21s next month up over £1 an hour. Not an incredible wage but still £450 a week for a 40 hour week, with a knock on up the pay grades. It has to be a fine balance otherwise staff will be too expensive and businesses will think about employing staff. |
For over 21's, because no one 18-21 ever gets together and has kids, it's shocking. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 20:33 - Mar 24 with 1405 views | max936 |
| It's sickening... on 19:59 - Mar 24 by Whiterockin |
The national living wage is £ 11.44 for over 21s next month up over £1 an hour. Not an incredible wage but still £450 a week for a 40 hour week, with a knock on up the pay grades. It has to be a fine balance otherwise staff will be too expensive and businesses will think about employing staff. |
Without staff they wouldn't be able to function as a business though! |  |
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| It's sickening... on 20:38 - Mar 24 with 1396 views | Whiterockin |
| It's sickening... on 20:33 - Mar 24 by max936 |
Without staff they wouldn't be able to function as a business though! |
I have been on both sides, sometimes you will reduce opening hours because its not viable to pay staff. The business functions, possibly not to its full potential but you have to balance costs against income. | | | |
| It's sickening... on 20:43 - Mar 24 with 1384 views | max936 |
| It's sickening... on 18:57 - Mar 24 by ModeratorC |
Got a sneaking suspicion that when my cousin took his life he didn’t have a bad back. |
Sorry to read about your loss, sad time for all. | |
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| It's sickening... on 07:09 - Mar 25 with 1288 views | jackrmee |
| It's sickening... on 06:44 - Mar 24 by felixstowe_jack |
Simple cuts benefits significantly for those who refuse to work.
At current cost everyone who works pays £500 a year just to cover sickness benefits costs. |
You can’t just refuse to work.
If you do, they stop your universal credit.
And benefits isn’t all they cracked up to be.
If you aren’t on the sick, you could be on £200 a month.
It takes a long time to get on the sick part of universal credit, and not easy..
As for PIP…good luck with that.
My mate has one arm, cancer and some sort of painkilling electrical box thing connected to his brain, yet he got refused PIP and had to go to tribunal, which he said was such hard work he almost gave up. |  |
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| It's sickening... on 07:11 - Mar 25 with 1286 views | jackrmee |
| It's sickening... on 09:06 - Mar 24 by AnotherJohn |
What strikes me about this issue is that, leaving aside any questions of blame or moral culpability, we now have so many people relying on public support that there is a real issue of affordability and sustainability. The question is quickly changing from: "Should we help people who have conditions that may make working difficult?" to "Can we find the resources needed to support such large numbers of economically inactive people who have no savings to support themselves?" Early retirement is fine if the retiree has saved enough to provide a viable income, but calculations that involve thinking benefits are enough to live on seem to me to be built on shaky foundations. I've spent quite a lot of time working in Asia and it is noticeable there that many who have incapacitating conditions or are past 65 are still working because there is no welfare state. Putting this another way: if we want to keep our welfare state then we need to find a way of aligning need for help with available resources. And for those who reply: "We are a rich country", please look at the graph for per capita productivity over time plus the figures for general government gross debt. [Post edited 24 Mar 15:41]
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Universal Basic Income.
It will be here soon anyway.
There will be no jobs for humans left to do | |
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| It's sickening... on 07:14 - Mar 25 with 1285 views | jackrmee |
| It's sickening... on 10:03 - Mar 24 by controversial_jack |
Where are these jobs that we have to get people back int? I see very little high value jobs that can pay a good living wage. Those jobs would require a high level of educational attainment which most claimants don't have. It's simplistic saying just cut benefits. What then, the kids go hungry? |
Exactly.
People say cut benefits, but the VAST majority of benefits in this country are paid to people in full
Time work, simply because their wage can’t cover the ridiculous bills.
Work full time, then collect tax credits or working tax, so that your wage can actually pay your rent and buy shopping.
Why would anyone choose to do that, if there was another way? | |
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