| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager 10:28 - Jun 28 with 9273 views | westwalesed |
Does it make the play offs?
I think so. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:34 - Jun 28 with 6568 views | jackjackjackjack |
If Potter had stayed we'd be in the play-offs, I've little doubt.
Surprised no-one from the Premier League seems keen on Cooper... | |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:41 - Jun 28 with 6546 views | Neath_Jack |
Impossible to say, people who are pi$$ed off will say yes.
I'm not so sure myself.
Whilst we have got a couple of outstanding players, we've also got plenty of bang average players too.
Does a manager make an individual perform consistently, or is it solely down to the player? Maybe a bit of both. Boro last week were absolutely awful, they let us play, whereas Luton were in our faces from the word go.
Would I change the manager, absof*ckinglutely. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:46 - Jun 28 with 6541 views | swancity |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:34 - Jun 28 by jackjackjackjack |
If Potter had stayed we'd be in the play-offs, I've little doubt.
Surprised no-one from the Premier League seems keen on Cooper... |
10th last season remember under Potter with McBurnie scoring 24, Daniel James on fire, Leroy Fer and arguably a stronger squad last season in general.
Proven Championship Manager? Like who? Neil Warnock? Ian Holloway?
Steve Cooper has done a decent job. Overall. Including bringing some good young players to the Club. Remember the Championship is one of the biggest and most competitive leagues in European football. I’d be looking at those players who played yesterday and asking more questions of them? | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:53 - Jun 28 with 6521 views | Oneill_77 |
Therein lies the dilemma (atleast with some fans).
Do the above, win ugly and play total shite football like Cardiff (we've had the upper hand, in spades).
Or take an educated punt on somebody we can afford who strives to play in the way we prefer, with a young developing squad we can afford. This route requires patience, and a deeper understanding which some fans will always struggle with.
Last week we played the way we prefer, in all aspects. This week we didn't, in most aspects. The young squad and manager should learn from this. Some fans won't. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:01 - Jun 28 with 6495 views | Badlands |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:41 - Jun 28 by Neath_Jack |
Impossible to say, people who are pi$$ed off will say yes.
I'm not so sure myself.
Whilst we have got a couple of outstanding players, we've also got plenty of bang average players too.
Does a manager make an individual perform consistently, or is it solely down to the player? Maybe a bit of both. Boro last week were absolutely awful, they let us play, whereas Luton were in our faces from the word go.
Would I change the manager, absof*ckinglutely. |
For the divisions we're been in when we were successful we rarely had more than 2 or 3 outstanding players, the rest have always been average.
What we did have from Flynn to Laudrup were managers who could get more for the team than the sum of their parts. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:06 - Jun 28 with 6487 views | WarwickHunt |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:53 - Jun 28 by Oneill_77 |
Therein lies the dilemma (atleast with some fans).
Do the above, win ugly and play total shite football like Cardiff (we've had the upper hand, in spades).
Or take an educated punt on somebody we can afford who strives to play in the way we prefer, with a young developing squad we can afford. This route requires patience, and a deeper understanding which some fans will always struggle with.
Last week we played the way we prefer, in all aspects. This week we didn't, in most aspects. The young squad and manager should learn from this. Some fans won't. |
He doesn’t appear to be learning though.
Pavlov’s dog got it quicker. |  | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:09 - Jun 28 with 6479 views | Oneill_77 |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:06 - Jun 28 by WarwickHunt |
He doesn’t appear to be learning though.
Pavlov’s dog got it quicker. |
Agreed. Where we are right now, he needs Curt and Trunds alongside. Their comments yesterday, esp Trunds were bang on. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:11 - Jun 28 with 6472 views | theloneranger |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:46 - Jun 28 by swancity |
10th last season remember under Potter with McBurnie scoring 24, Daniel James on fire, Leroy Fer and arguably a stronger squad last season in general.
Proven Championship Manager? Like who? Neil Warnock? Ian Holloway?
Steve Cooper has done a decent job. Overall. Including bringing some good young players to the Club. Remember the Championship is one of the biggest and most competitive leagues in European football. I’d be looking at those players who played yesterday and asking more questions of them? |
I'm not sure you can make an argument for Fer last season. Due to injury he missed 21 games, only started in 15, and coming on as sub in 10. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:15 - Jun 28 with 6460 views | jack247 |
Yes, I think so.
There’s a lot of mediocrity in this division. We have basically played two ways this season, as we are now with Borja/Surridge/Brewster up front or with Ayew as a roving striker with Routledge and Dyer either side of him in a more fluid but less clinical front three.
He’s done well in the loan market with only Guehi yet to make an impact, but he’s made us very predictable and established players seem to have regressed under him. My biggest criticism is he doesn’t adapt during games, he just ploughs on regardless. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:23 - Jun 28 with 6442 views | Badlands |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:53 - Jun 28 by Oneill_77 |
Therein lies the dilemma (atleast with some fans).
Do the above, win ugly and play total shite football like Cardiff (we've had the upper hand, in spades).
Or take an educated punt on somebody we can afford who strives to play in the way we prefer, with a young developing squad we can afford. This route requires patience, and a deeper understanding which some fans will always struggle with.
Last week we played the way we prefer, in all aspects. This week we didn't, in most aspects. The young squad and manager should learn from this. Some fans won't. |
Patience? Absolutely.
But Cooper's team is not playing the football we like, effectively, has taken individuals backwards and is making no progress.
Last week we played 35 - 40 the way we like, which is what has happened many times in the season. Then ....
We carried on against Luton where ended in Middlesborough.
Apart from occasional flourishes (Brewster excepted as we didn't have a striker) none of he loanees has been any better than player we already had.
Cooper is a very limited manager who has refused to learn from his mistakes and routinely blames others. | |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:33 - Jun 28 with 6421 views | dameedna |
It is his first year after Potter farked off to the ponces in ingerland. He is mid table and recognises when we play below par and points to a number of times this season. A proven manager is in my opinion a complete fallacy, why did CCFC get shot of Warhorse? Last season we had Fer, Jocko and Lightning. We were very lucky to keep Ayew but most of our genius fans thought he was crap anyway. |  | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:37 - Jun 28 with 6414 views | Dr_Winston |
Think it's fairly obvious that Cooper is underperforming significantly with the players he has at his disposal, and unlike his predecessor he didn't have to deal with the fallout of relegation and subsequent turnover within the squad.
We may have finished mid table under Potter but there were clear signs that we were beginning to move in the right direction again. The play was quicker, the players were more comfortable within their roles and a decent promotion push this season looked likely. We weren't the finished article by any stretch, but with the right additions we could have been.
Compare that to the largely typical, turgid, aimless crap that we witnessed again yesterday nearly a year into Cooper's tenure and it looks like whatever he's doing isn't working, and perhaps most damning of all he shows little sign of being willing or able to do anything different.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:47 - Jun 28 with 6390 views | sainthelens |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:37 - Jun 28 by Dr_Winston |
Think it's fairly obvious that Cooper is underperforming significantly with the players he has at his disposal, and unlike his predecessor he didn't have to deal with the fallout of relegation and subsequent turnover within the squad.
We may have finished mid table under Potter but there were clear signs that we were beginning to move in the right direction again. The play was quicker, the players were more comfortable within their roles and a decent promotion push this season looked likely. We weren't the finished article by any stretch, but with the right additions we could have been.
Compare that to the largely typical, turgid, aimless crap that we witnessed again yesterday nearly a year into Cooper's tenure and it looks like whatever he's doing isn't working, and perhaps most damning of all he shows little sign of being willing or able to do anything different.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well said.
Pretty much sums it up. |  | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:54 - Jun 28 with 6365 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:37 - Jun 28 by Dr_Winston |
Think it's fairly obvious that Cooper is underperforming significantly with the players he has at his disposal, and unlike his predecessor he didn't have to deal with the fallout of relegation and subsequent turnover within the squad.
We may have finished mid table under Potter but there were clear signs that we were beginning to move in the right direction again. The play was quicker, the players were more comfortable within their roles and a decent promotion push this season looked likely. We weren't the finished article by any stretch, but with the right additions we could have been.
Compare that to the largely typical, turgid, aimless crap that we witnessed again yesterday nearly a year into Cooper's tenure and it looks like whatever he's doing isn't working, and perhaps most damning of all he shows little sign of being willing or able to do anything different.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
How very sensible.
Players expected to kick on this season after being blooded by Potter have gone backwards under Cooper. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:56 - Jun 28 with 6360 views | jack247 |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:33 - Jun 28 by dameedna |
It is his first year after Potter farked off to the ponces in ingerland. He is mid table and recognises when we play below par and points to a number of times this season. A proven manager is in my opinion a complete fallacy, why did CCFC get shot of Warhorse? Last season we had Fer, Jocko and Lightning. We were very lucky to keep Ayew but most of our genius fans thought he was crap anyway. |
‘Proven’ probably wasn’t the best choice of words, ‘decent’ would have been.
You’re actually highlighting one of Coopers big failings there, he recognises when we play below par, doesn’t take accountability and sometimes comes close to blaming the players, then sends the same team out, in the same formation, playing the same style the following game.
I do think we had a better squad last season, however there is a marked difference in some of our players under a tactically basic manager. Celina and to a lesser extent Grimes being clear examples. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:56 - Jun 28 with 6359 views | Thornburyswan |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:37 - Jun 28 by Dr_Winston |
Think it's fairly obvious that Cooper is underperforming significantly with the players he has at his disposal, and unlike his predecessor he didn't have to deal with the fallout of relegation and subsequent turnover within the squad.
We may have finished mid table under Potter but there were clear signs that we were beginning to move in the right direction again. The play was quicker, the players were more comfortable within their roles and a decent promotion push this season looked likely. We weren't the finished article by any stretch, but with the right additions we could have been.
Compare that to the largely typical, turgid, aimless crap that we witnessed again yesterday nearly a year into Cooper's tenure and it looks like whatever he's doing isn't working, and perhaps most damning of all he shows little sign of being willing or able to do anything different.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Broadly agree but regardless on the manager our current squad (with or without the loanees) is not good enough to be top 3/4 so definitely not automatic promotion material, we have several clear issues for me :-
1. Current manager learning (slowly I agree) as he goes.
2. Real lack of on pitch leadership & ‘match management’ skills.
3. Very limited pace in attacking sense & absolutely zero plan B options when plan A is not working.
For me a 8/10th place finish is about par for us noting points above - assuming we sell Rodon, Celina & Ayew to cover our financial situation plus VdH, Nauts, Mulder plus maybe Routs & Dyer exit on contract expiry we’ll need a good mix of frees, loanees & maybe a couple of ££s spent time set- up for next season.
I for one would not support the move to agricultural/athletic/set piece based football to get results at all costs but I do accept that the ‘win at all costs’ mentality can get you higher up this league and there are times in a game when row Z is absolutely the right thing to do. I’d settle for Championship + decent level of football vs 1 season in the Prem get a lesson each week for the mega dosh. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 12:10 - Jun 28 with 6323 views | Dr_Winston |
I wouldn't necessarily that we lack leadership. You look at players like Ayew, VdH, Naughton, hell even Gallagher at the moment looks to be a player who tries to lead by example. Then we dump the team captaincy onto Grimes who has struggled under the weight of it and probably would have lost his place in the team if he didn't have the armband.
Leaders on the pitch will only get you so far if the plan you want them to implement isn't up to scratch. I wouldn't argue with the belief that we're lacking a defensive midfield fulcrum to dictate the play and shore up the side, but we've been lacking one of those since we sold Jack Cork.
We don't have to play agricultural football to get promoted, nor is it a given that we'd struggle upon promotion. Of all the teams in the league we're the proof of that.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 12:37 - Jun 28 with 6257 views | MrSwerve |
Well we probably wouldn’t have Brewster, Gallagher, Wilmot etc in the squad for a start (obviously would have another set of players from whoever managed us). They’ve done pretty well for us, though.
I think with an experienced manager we’d be in the mix for a playoff place (more comfortably, at least)...but that would come at a financial cost.
If we finish around 9th-10th...I’d say that Cooper has done an average job...considering his inexperience. Great start to the season, downhill since. Pretty dire football, which is surprising as he was brought in to bring back ‘free flowing football’ (to quote The Res).
I can see us sticking with him for another year while further book-balancing is in place. The only way we will get rid is if we are consistently in and around the relegation places.
Still hoping for a run of wins to put us into the playoffs, but I don’t think we’d challenge the teams that much were we to sneak in. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 13:21 - Jun 28 with 6171 views | krunchykarrot |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:46 - Jun 28 by swancity |
10th last season remember under Potter with McBurnie scoring 24, Daniel James on fire, Leroy Fer and arguably a stronger squad last season in general.
Proven Championship Manager? Like who? Neil Warnock? Ian Holloway?
Steve Cooper has done a decent job. Overall. Including bringing some good young players to the Club. Remember the Championship is one of the biggest and most competitive leagues in European football. I’d be looking at those players who played yesterday and asking more questions of them? |
I agree entirely with your post, i thought and hoped we might good enough to get to the play offs for the youngsters and Cooper to gain experience.
Last week we looked sharp all over the park, yesterday was poor and we saw Cooper rightly criticise the team.
We need a (ball winning DM?) Captain from somewhere as our experienced players like Ayew and Grimes yesterday were poor. |  | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 13:46 - Jun 28 with 6125 views | NotLoyal |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 11:09 - Jun 28 by Oneill_77 |
Agreed. Where we are right now, he needs Curt and Trunds alongside. Their comments yesterday, esp Trunds were bang on. |
Trundle knows any position close to or as a potential coach puts him on the road to getting closer to the sack. |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 18:11 - Jun 28 with 5951 views | swancity |
That’s right. Sell your best two players for over £35m. Don’t spend on replacements. Then blame the Manager ( for making progress ).
The Club continues to regroup and reassess after relegation. It’s a shadow of what it was 4 years ago. Look at the much wider picture. Laughably I saw that Lee Dineen had a side swipe at the selection of the team for yesterday’s game. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 18:26 - Jun 28 with 5912 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 10:34 - Jun 28 by jackjackjackjack |
If Potter had stayed we'd be in the play-offs, I've little doubt.
Surprised no-one from the Premier League seems keen on Cooper... |
Potter had much of this squad whilst he was here, as well as Montero, Carroll, James and McBurnie.
Yet, he opted to spend much of his transfer budget on Joel Asoro and Barrie McKay, instead of strengthening areas of weakness.
How can you say we would be in the play-offs when he finished far from the play-offs with arguably a stronger squad? |  |
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| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 19:13 - Jun 28 with 5873 views | dunvantjack100 |
Potter with this squad, I think yes.
However, had Potter stayed I don’t think that we have the squad we have. He brought in Mckay, Asoro and Celina. (A couple more also?) That cost us somewhere between £5-7 million.
Under Cooper: we have players like Woodman, Gallagher, Wilmot, Brewster, who have all been managed by Cooper with the England squad.
I am completely against Cooper’s tactics 70% of the time, however it’s difficult to know if Potter would have replaced James and Mcburnie as effectively, with the budget we had.
From an owners point of view, Cooper is ideal as he can recruit cheap loans and keep costs down.
If we could have Potter as manager and Cooper as head of recruitment (Assistant manager), then I think we’d make the playoffs. | | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 19:28 - Jun 28 with 5850 views | NeathJack |
I made a list of players that have improved this season under Cooper below: |  | | |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 19:54 - Jun 28 with 5819 views | Fireboy2 |
| That squad with a Proven Championship Manager on 19:28 - Jun 28 by NeathJack |
I made a list of players that have improved this season under Cooper below: |
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