| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else 13:49 - Jan 7 with 9154 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
The operational definitions around Covid need to be revised. A 40% incease would account for the increase in hospitalisations in Wales since early December.
Death figures are also going to be inflated.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/sta [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 13:51]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:57 - Jan 7 with 1941 views | Dr_Winston |
There has always been serious doubt about what many people hospitalised "with" Covid were actually there for. Allied to the number of hospital acquired infections. The death figure thing has also been done to death before. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:30 - Jan 7 with 1914 views | Professor |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:57 - Jan 7 by Dr_Winston |
There has always been serious doubt about what many people hospitalised "with" Covid were actually there for. Allied to the number of hospital acquired infections. The death figure thing has also been done to death before. |
The death figure is a complete straw man argument-either way. There can be no correct answer.
the 28 day cut off is meaningless as is the 'with/of' argument. The impact will only really be clear with 1,2 and 5 year post infection mortality rates. The question should be has infection made a contribution to death. In most cases the answer will be 'yes'. The ONS excess mortality tells the clearer picture. At least its not fictional like India-probably underestimated by two thirds according to analysis published this week.
Either way hospitalisation due to covids are increasing quite steeply, though the lack of ability of Omicron to infect the lungs is keeping down pneumonia and ICU admissions. But lets be frank, infections have to be pretty serious for hospital admission still. |  | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:38 - Jan 7 with 1902 views | 73__73 |
The figures I saw last week were 79% of people in hospital with covid were already in hospital with some other conditions , and caught covid whilst in hospital.
Also, the ridiculous 28 days of dying from covid - no wonder people don’t believe a single word from the government or nhs management. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:53 - Jan 7 with 1887 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:30 - Jan 7 by Professor |
The death figure is a complete straw man argument-either way. There can be no correct answer.
the 28 day cut off is meaningless as is the 'with/of' argument. The impact will only really be clear with 1,2 and 5 year post infection mortality rates. The question should be has infection made a contribution to death. In most cases the answer will be 'yes'. The ONS excess mortality tells the clearer picture. At least its not fictional like India-probably underestimated by two thirds according to analysis published this week.
Either way hospitalisation due to covids are increasing quite steeply, though the lack of ability of Omicron to infect the lungs is keeping down pneumonia and ICU admissions. But lets be frank, infections have to be pretty serious for hospital admission still. |
The NHS data in England Covid shows admissions with Covid increasing by about 100% compared to October, November.
But if 40% of cases are now not primarily for Covid rather than because of it. Admissions for Covid are up by about 200 to 300 a day across the whole of England at the start of January according to the NHS data.
Unless the data is defined and presented clearly people will start interpreting it as questionable. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:21 - Jan 7 with 1866 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:38 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
The figures I saw last week were 79% of people in hospital with covid were already in hospital with some other conditions , and caught covid whilst in hospital.
Also, the ridiculous 28 days of dying from covid - no wonder people don’t believe a single word from the government or nhs management. |
The 149,000 excess deaths since the star of the pandemic is the shocking figure and a tradegy for their families. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:23 - Jan 7 with 1857 views | 73__73 |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:21 - Jan 7 by felixstowe_jack |
The 149,000 excess deaths since the star of the pandemic is the shocking figure and a tradegy for their families. |
Is it only covid deaths that are shocking to you ?
What about the deaths from smoking ? Do you campaign to stop the selling of tobacco ? | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:23 - Jan 7 with 1859 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:38 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
The figures I saw last week were 79% of people in hospital with covid were already in hospital with some other conditions , and caught covid whilst in hospital.
Also, the ridiculous 28 days of dying from covid - no wonder people don’t believe a single word from the government or nhs management. |
Why is the 28 figure ridiculous? How would you suggest measuring it? | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:25 - Jan 7 with 1854 views | 73__73 |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:23 - Jan 7 by Scotia |
Why is the 28 figure ridiculous? How would you suggest measuring it? |
Because if you get hit by a bus and die as a result 3 weeks after recovering from covid, that isn’t a covid death, but is counted in the figures [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 15:29]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:29 - Jan 7 with 1846 views | Professor |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:25 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Because if you get hit by a bus and die as a result 3 weeks after recovering from covid, that isn’t a covid death, but is counted in the figures [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 15:29]
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But does not count the deaths resulting from Covid later than 28!days either! | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:31 - Jan 7 with 1844 views | 1462jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:29 - Jan 7 by Professor |
But does not count the deaths resulting from Covid later than 28!days either! |
Show us ? |  | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:32 - Jan 7 with 1834 views | 73__73 |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:29 - Jan 7 by Professor |
But does not count the deaths resulting from Covid later than 28!days either! |
I didn’t say it did. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:32 - Jan 7 with 1835 views | Professor |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:53 - Jan 7 by JACKMANANDBOY |
The NHS data in England Covid shows admissions with Covid increasing by about 100% compared to October, November.
But if 40% of cases are now not primarily for Covid rather than because of it. Admissions for Covid are up by about 200 to 300 a day across the whole of England at the start of January according to the NHS data.
Unless the data is defined and presented clearly people will start interpreting it as questionable. |
That’s a fair point. But let’s be honest god knows what the actual infection rate is now | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:59 - Jan 7 with 1801 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:25 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Because if you get hit by a bus and die as a result 3 weeks after recovering from covid, that isn’t a covid death, but is counted in the figures [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 15:29]
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How often do people get hit by a bus 28 days after testing positive?
How do you suggest measuring it? | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:02 - Jan 7 with 1800 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:31 - Jan 7 by 1462jack |
Show us ? |
https://coronavirus.data.gov.u
Check out deaths with covid on the death certificate. Its far higher than the 28 day figure. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:08 - Jan 7 with 1796 views | 73__73 |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:59 - Jan 7 by Scotia |
How often do people get hit by a bus 28 days after testing positive?
How do you suggest measuring it? |
Ok not just hit by a bus, how about old age, cancer, stroke, heart attack, work accident, food poisoning, being hit by lightning, falling from height, being shot, being stabbed, vehicle accident, dying in your sleep, and so on and so on. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:15 - Jan 7 with 1791 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:29 - Jan 7 by Professor |
But does not count the deaths resulting from Covid later than 28!days either! |
They do, they are using 60 days.
Between this and you declaring backlogged cases as daily you really don't know what is going on do you?
Would you like to talk about ONS all cause mortality statistics and what their analysis shows? | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:18 - Jan 7 with 1789 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:59 - Jan 7 by Scotia |
How often do people get hit by a bus 28 days after testing positive?
How do you suggest measuring it? |
What a stupid question, they can test for covid after the accident (or any accident) when they present in hospital, die of the injuries later and be counted. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 17:46 - Jan 7 with 1764 views | controversial_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:18 - Jan 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
What a stupid question, they can test for covid after the accident (or any accident) when they present in hospital, die of the injuries later and be counted. |
It doesn't work like that. Covid has to to contribute to the death to be recorded as a covid death | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 18:48 - Jan 7 with 1743 views | hobo |
We need to see figures for deaths within 28 days of a covid vaccine |  | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 18:56 - Jan 7 with 1732 views | Gwyn737 |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 18:48 - Jan 7 by hobo |
We need to see figures for deaths within 28 days of a covid vaccine |
Excess deaths. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 18:57 - Jan 7 with 1736 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:08 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Ok not just hit by a bus, how about old age, cancer, stroke, heart attack, work accident, food poisoning, being hit by lightning, falling from height, being shot, being stabbed, vehicle accident, dying in your sleep, and so on and so on. |
That would be a very unlucky day. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 19:29 - Jan 7 with 1716 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 17:46 - Jan 7 by controversial_jack |
It doesn't work like that. Covid has to to contribute to the death to be recorded as a covid death |
Where is the proof of your statement. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 05:55 - Jan 8 with 1658 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:23 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Is it only covid deaths that are shocking to you ?
What about the deaths from smoking ? Do you campaign to stop the selling of tobacco ? |
That would be a good idea fortunately most people no longer smoke.
The vaccines are estimated to have saved over 100,000 lives in the UK. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 05:56 - Jan 8 with 1657 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:25 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Because if you get hit by a bus and die as a result 3 weeks after recovering from covid, that isn’t a covid death, but is counted in the figures [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 15:29]
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How do you get hit by a bus in an ICU ward? | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 06:01 - Jan 8 with 1651 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 16:08 - Jan 7 by 73__73 |
Ok not just hit by a bus, how about old age, cancer, stroke, heart attack, work accident, food poisoning, being hit by lightning, falling from height, being shot, being stabbed, vehicle accident, dying in your sleep, and so on and so on. |
How do you explain the 149,000 excess deaths then. Are people suddenly throwing themselves in front of buses jumping off tall buildings, having more accidents at work, standing in fields during lightening storms, having more vehicle accidents, eating more food past its sell by date. | |
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