| Intelligence 17:27 - Oct 2 with 6827 views | WestbourneR |
Long been under-rated attrivute in British football but I'd say the people at the top of the management game are all pretty intelligent people. Klopp, Wenger, Mourinho etc. even managers like Monk, Dyche and Howe seem to be quite thoughtful and articulate.
My point is.... I don't think Holloway is smart enough. I think he's a great motivator and has huge passion but he's not smart. He's actually totally incoherent sometimes.
Worse, he tries to be clever, he tries to tinker, and it always ends up a mess. Tactically he's been left behind by the game long ago but he's trying to play the part anwyay.
The fuss he made about his 'enlightenment' about switching the ball rather than pumping down the channels, you'd think he'd unlocked Einstein's last theorem. In fact it was pretty basic stuff that he should have cottoned on to ages ago. It's also, once again, out of date now.
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| Intelligence on 18:34 - Oct 2 with 3975 views | Esox_Lucius |
Fermat's Last Theorem.
I guess I could manage a top flight footbll team with that sort of intelligence. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Intelligence on 18:59 - Oct 2 with 3950 views | Dorse |
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle always seems to apply when watching QPR. Some supporters, however, subscribe to multiverse theory in which there are multiple universes in which all possible outcomes are played out: this is why some fans moan even when we win because somewhere there is a universe in which we got battered. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Intelligence on 20:28 - Oct 2 with 3869 views | UPPERLOFTNZ |
an intelligent response to this comment would be we are a mid table, average championship side, with little to no budget. Holloway is what we can afford and you could also argue ideal for rebuilding a team that for a years has had little spirit or motivation. |  |
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| Intelligence on 20:41 - Oct 2 with 3850 views | QPR_John |
Riemann's hypothesis now proving that would take a little intelligence |  | | |
| Intelligence on 20:48 - Oct 2 with 3842 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Intelligence on 20:41 - Oct 2 by QPR_John |
Riemann's hypothesis now proving that would take a little intelligence |
I think the OP would be happy enough to find the zero function which reduces Holloway to zero LOL | |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Intelligence on 20:57 - Oct 2 with 3823 views | WestbourneR |
Good I'm glad we cleared that up. | |
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| Intelligence on 21:00 - Oct 2 with 3814 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Apologies for the rudeness, but this post is mental.
Articulation doesn't mean intelligence, and incoherence doesn't mean stupidity.
I think one thing that Holloway has done that no other has done since Warnock is get a system going. That means being tactically astute right?
This is just a snobbish way of attacking Holloway that is undeserved and unfounded.
Shame on you. |  | | |
| Intelligence on 21:01 - Oct 2 with 3815 views | markrtid |
| Intelligence on 18:59 - Oct 2 by Dorse |
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle always seems to apply when watching QPR. Some supporters, however, subscribe to multiverse theory in which there are multiple universes in which all possible outcomes are played out: this is why some fans moan even when we win because somewhere there is a universe in which we got battered. |
Rick, Rickity Pickle Rick Rickshank Rickdemption in Rixty Minutes Something Ricked This Way Comes. Wubba lubba dub dub!
I hope October and November are good for you in this multiverse. The one that matters. |  | | |
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| Intelligence on 21:39 - Oct 2 with 3765 views | markrtid |
| Intelligence on 21:01 - Oct 2 by markrtid |
Rick, Rickity Pickle Rick Rickshank Rickdemption in Rixty Minutes Something Ricked This Way Comes. Wubba lubba dub dub!
I hope October and November are good for you in this multiverse. The one that matters. |
Oh I'm sorry.
Wrong thread.
This was meant for the 'Clever Bar Stewerds Thread' Those who think we are doing fine just treading water so put down anyone who dares to ask questions.
Thread. | | | |
| Intelligence on 22:10 - Oct 2 with 3739 views | WestbourneR |
| Intelligence on 21:00 - Oct 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Apologies for the rudeness, but this post is mental.
Articulation doesn't mean intelligence, and incoherence doesn't mean stupidity.
I think one thing that Holloway has done that no other has done since Warnock is get a system going. That means being tactically astute right?
This is just a snobbish way of attacking Holloway that is undeserved and unfounded.
Shame on you. |
Shame! I feel it so intensely. I've betrayed the moral code of the Loft for Words messageboard. How will I ever sleep at night???
I think it's a fair question to ask if Holloways the sharpest tool in the box. I'd persoanally like a bright mind leading me in almost any situation. I think it helps with making good decisions.
And I also think the ability to order your thoughts, justify your decisions coherently and accurately articulate them is an important ability for a leader.
Holloway talks a lot of mumbo jumbo most of time. He came across as passionate but muddled in his interview Northern. When asked a key question about Sylla he couldn't compose a coherent answer.
Anyone who saw his 'tactics' team talk the night before the Blackburn FA Cup game will know how limited he can be. | |
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| Intelligence on 22:18 - Oct 2 with 3732 views | Northernr |
I actually think there's something in the OP and it's a big problem for us with Holloway.
He's a Championship manager. A better one than many give him credit for - promoted with Blackpool, not far off with Plymouth ffs - but that's what he is. When he behaves like one and selects like one it's fine. But I do always feel like he's trying to prove what a good manager he is, how underestimated he is, how clever he is tactically etc.
We're seeing the Holloway cycle again this season. We did two loops of it last season and it's happening again. When he's doing the basics and using his motivational strengths it goes well, but then when it goes well he starts messing with it and trying to prove what a clever manager he is until it falls apart completely and is only recovered when he goes "back to basics". Compare his comments in August about "knowing our system and sticking with it" to September when he's extolling the virtues of being able to chop and change. |  | | |
| Intelligence on 22:32 - Oct 2 with 3697 views | WestbourneR |
| Intelligence on 22:18 - Oct 2 by Northernr |
I actually think there's something in the OP and it's a big problem for us with Holloway.
He's a Championship manager. A better one than many give him credit for - promoted with Blackpool, not far off with Plymouth ffs - but that's what he is. When he behaves like one and selects like one it's fine. But I do always feel like he's trying to prove what a good manager he is, how underestimated he is, how clever he is tactically etc.
We're seeing the Holloway cycle again this season. We did two loops of it last season and it's happening again. When he's doing the basics and using his motivational strengths it goes well, but then when it goes well he starts messing with it and trying to prove what a clever manager he is until it falls apart completely and is only recovered when he goes "back to basics". Compare his comments in August about "knowing our system and sticking with it" to September when he's extolling the virtues of being able to chop and change. |
Put far better than me Northern
It does feel muddled at the moment and I think Holloway is obsessed with proving his tactical acumen and flexibility when we'd be much better just mastering one system.
We have the more the feel of a Holloway Millwall than a Holloway Blackpool at the moment.
I actually think one of issues also lies on the fact we have a huge jumbled squad of players who are all about the same level (Freeman and Manning have touched higher points). I fear Wheeler and Bright are more of the same.
Did we really need two raw wingers this summer or would we have been better of spending all our money on a centre forward?
I think Scowen and Baptiste we great business but I'd have tried to spend all the fees we had on one player. | |
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| Intelligence on 22:56 - Oct 2 with 3663 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Sometimes, as QPR fans, we absolutely get what we deserve. | | | |
| Intelligence on 23:24 - Oct 2 with 3638 views | isawqpratwcity |
I really could't give a rat's what the manager says. If it's Holloway making us laugh, or making incomprehensible pronouncements on management, or Redknapp blaming everybody and everything else, or Hasselbaink saying "it is what it is", none of it means anything.
What counts is what happens on the pitch. Are we winning? Are we getting better or worse?
And at the moment Holloway is hanging in there. Just. |  |
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| Intelligence on 08:35 - Oct 3 with 3539 views | headhoops |
Holloway has IMO always been limited as a tactical manager - his strength is motivation and he should stick to what works. That said if you applied Pareto's Law to the Fulham game we would have won and his position not under so much doubt. You cannot fault the man's passion for our club and that is at last starting to show in the players. |  |
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| Intelligence on 08:35 - Oct 3 with 3539 views | loftinoz |
I'll bet he can spell attribute though. | | | |
| Intelligence on 08:54 - Oct 3 with 3524 views | WestbourneR |
| Intelligence on 08:35 - Oct 3 by loftinoz |
I'll bet he can spell attribute though. |
Yeah that wasn't a typo I actually think it's spelt with a v. It's like - phonetic yeah?
Thanks for entering the debate. | |
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| Intelligence on 09:08 - Oct 3 with 3504 views | ade_qpr |
He is more a lower league manager than a Premier one, but he is exactly want we need at the moment. He's a proven rebuilder of clubs and considering the mess we found ourselves in recently he started to turn things around a little. If we can get 2 or 3 seasons out of him he may get us on the right path again and add stability to the club with promotion a bonus IF it was to happen. How many options did we have at the time of his appointment? Many were happy to see him back.
In saying that, I admit if we did get promoted I would be looking to upgrade depending on who was around (see opening sentence) |  |
| If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked? |
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| Intelligence on 09:51 - Oct 3 with 3456 views | superhoopdownunder |
| Intelligence on 09:08 - Oct 3 by ade_qpr |
He is more a lower league manager than a Premier one, but he is exactly want we need at the moment. He's a proven rebuilder of clubs and considering the mess we found ourselves in recently he started to turn things around a little. If we can get 2 or 3 seasons out of him he may get us on the right path again and add stability to the club with promotion a bonus IF it was to happen. How many options did we have at the time of his appointment? Many were happy to see him back.
In saying that, I admit if we did get promoted I would be looking to upgrade depending on who was around (see opening sentence) |
In my opinion right now we need stability
We have been on a roller coaster
A lot of money (probably half a billion) has been wasted
We have decent keepers (Smithies and Lumley)
Our midfield is excellent (think about our midfield against Fulham this season compared to last season at their place)
However the defence is weak and we lack a consistent goalscorer
I expect the defence will improve once Ned and Hall are available
Baptiste has performed well - Robinson some good signs (not sure yet)
Holloway is up and down and we can see that in our results
I also would prefer he stick with our best players and system
If he does and we sort the weaknesses out then we should be ok
I think it will be a long time before we are in the Premier League again
Final comment - our squad remains far too big - we have at least 35 in it - need to trim it down to around 25 quality players rather than quantity (which we have at the moment)
U R's [Post edited 3 Oct 2017 9:53]
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| Intelligence on 09:52 - Oct 3 with 3453 views | TheChef |
| Intelligence on 22:18 - Oct 2 by Northernr |
I actually think there's something in the OP and it's a big problem for us with Holloway.
He's a Championship manager. A better one than many give him credit for - promoted with Blackpool, not far off with Plymouth ffs - but that's what he is. When he behaves like one and selects like one it's fine. But I do always feel like he's trying to prove what a good manager he is, how underestimated he is, how clever he is tactically etc.
We're seeing the Holloway cycle again this season. We did two loops of it last season and it's happening again. When he's doing the basics and using his motivational strengths it goes well, but then when it goes well he starts messing with it and trying to prove what a clever manager he is until it falls apart completely and is only recovered when he goes "back to basics". Compare his comments in August about "knowing our system and sticking with it" to September when he's extolling the virtues of being able to chop and change. |
It seems to me he only starts getting things wrong once the injuries start to kick in, especially in midfield or up front.
So we had a relatively settled side and system to start with - the big rick for me seemed to be when Luongo was missing recently for one of the home games, instead of playing like for like and putting Manning in there he tries to be clever and go extra attacking by putting Yeni in there out of position, and surprisingly it doesn't work.
Warnock's strength is sticking to a system and putting round pegs in round holes, no matter what the situation. Holloway can do that, but when injuries or suspensions demand changes, he can't seem to help himself from trying to be tactically clever, and that rarely seems to work. |  |
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| Intelligence on 10:08 - Oct 3 with 3440 views | TheBlob |
A million monkeys with a million typewriters will eventually rewrite the works of Shakespeare but will they ever open a packet of B&Q Assorted Scissors without severing an artery?
I don't think so. |  |
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| Intelligence on 10:19 - Oct 3 with 3429 views | Northernr |
| Intelligence on 09:52 - Oct 3 by TheChef |
It seems to me he only starts getting things wrong once the injuries start to kick in, especially in midfield or up front.
So we had a relatively settled side and system to start with - the big rick for me seemed to be when Luongo was missing recently for one of the home games, instead of playing like for like and putting Manning in there he tries to be clever and go extra attacking by putting Yeni in there out of position, and surprisingly it doesn't work.
Warnock's strength is sticking to a system and putting round pegs in round holes, no matter what the situation. Holloway can do that, but when injuries or suspensions demand changes, he can't seem to help himself from trying to be tactically clever, and that rarely seems to work. |
Agree, good post. | | | |
| Intelligence on 10:44 - Oct 3 with 3397 views | hubble |
| Intelligence on 10:08 - Oct 3 by TheBlob |
A million monkeys with a million typewriters will eventually rewrite the works of Shakespeare but will they ever open a packet of B&Q Assorted Scissors without severing an artery?
I don't think so. |
I think the internet has proved that opening statement to be wrong! |  |
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| Intelligence on 11:51 - Oct 3 with 3344 views | DejR_vu |
| Intelligence on 21:00 - Oct 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Apologies for the rudeness, but this post is mental.
Articulation doesn't mean intelligence, and incoherence doesn't mean stupidity.
I think one thing that Holloway has done that no other has done since Warnock is get a system going. That means being tactically astute right?
This is just a snobbish way of attacking Holloway that is undeserved and unfounded.
Shame on you. |
I do think the way he interviews gives an insight in to his clarity of thought and ability to deliver a message. He always goes off on tangents and rambles on for ages. If he's like that in interviews why should he be any different behind closed doors? Is he likely to be clear in his own mind what he wants to do? Is he going to deliver clear, concise messages? I think that could be particularly difficult if English isn't your first language, trying to decipher the salient points.
Personally I don't think adopting a system is a sign of being tactically astute. I tend to think managers who can see what the opposition are doing as a game unfolds and make effective changes (not random changes in personnel or shape that ends up in a stodgy mess) is a sign of a good tactician. IH's solution this season seems to be to throw on as many forward players as possible when we're chasing a game, and on Friday he didn't even seem to do that in any sort of coherent, joined up way. Don't get me wrong he's obviously miles ahead of me and the average football fan, but I don't think many people would regard him as a good tactician.
I think the general consensus amongst those who attend regularly would be that IH has them giving 100%, not giving up etc. That's great, and I would rather that than what we've seen since Hughes, but if that's all you've got it will only get you so far. We'll come up against teams with the same plan and then it's a lottery, and eventually we'll run out of steam and/or pick up lots of stress related injuries. I don't think it's any coincidence that having started well we've now won one in eight and we're slipping down the table again. I think other teams watched the first few games, did their research, sussed us out and then IH struggles to make the subtle changes to counter.
Personally, I've thought for years that the vast majority of managers are a myth stealing a living from owners with more money than sense because they operate in an industry where in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. But, what quality there is will be attracted to the money and as more and more money filters in to the Championship, better quality managers will continue to arrive and IH will get further and further out of his depth. I thought it was a mistake appointing IH, and still do. I think we were on the right track with JFH, he was just the wrong individual. | |
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