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I don’t do poetry, it’s pretentious bollox! That said, when I first came across ‘If’ as a teenager, I’ve gone through life frequently reading it. It’s the most beautiful piece of prose I know.
It’s just before 2pm in Rangoon. I’v just woken up and I don’t know if I need a shit or a shower. But I do know I’ve the most monstrous hangover, the wife wrote a lovely message and beside me in bed is our cat, who we saved as a kitten. His name is Kipling.
If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies, Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream–and not make dreams your master; If you can think–and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings–nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And–which is more–you’ll be a Man, my son!
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Not at all really, if you know much about the Hitler Youth. I don't see them either going camping in the woods or fighting through the streets of Berlin, and they don't seem to hero-worship anyone.
This lot are just sanctimonious and have decided that once someone is a Bad Person everything they say must be ignored. Same thing you get with Trump fans but at least this lot are still kids and might grow up one day.
Also, as someone pointed out, they're pissed off that they weren't consulted about their own building. Whoever decided that a Victorian poem was the way to get down with the kids was clearly a PR genius (not).
I dont really see the point in attempting to Sanitize history. Kipling was born in 1800's under British Empire rule, it would be suprising if his work didn't show signs of white superiority in some form.
We used to react to prejudice but now it seems such is the need to show everyone how righteous we are, people are activly seeking it out and more often than not, in places where it doesn't exist. Madness. It's an easy target though isn't it? Attacking the works of a dead poet, whooa f*cking hell, what an inspiration these guys are...
Has this country always been this divided by left and right views..? I'm getting pretty sick of it all tbh and i try and keep my political views neutral.
Ive never actually read that If poem all the way through, so cheers Planet H.
Has this country always been this divided by left and right views..? I'm getting pretty sick of it all tbh and i try and keep my political views neutral.
Ive never actually read that If poem all the way through, so cheers Planet H.
I think it probably has but nowadays all the nonsense is in your face on social media and it's difficult to get away from.
I'm sure 95% of the country don't really care and the 5% just shout rubbish at each other with no regard for facts or truth and just care about making their "side" look better
I dont really see the point in attempting to Sanitize history. Kipling was born in 1800's under British Empire rule, it would be suprising if his work didn't show signs of white superiority in some form.
We used to react to prejudice but now it seems such is the need to show everyone how righteous we are, people are activly seeking it out and more often than not, in places where it doesn't exist. Madness. It's an easy target though isn't it? Attacking the works of a dead poet, whooa f*cking hell, what an inspiration these guys are...
There is a big difference between understanding history and celebrating it.
Is removing a poem they didn't want, classed as an attack now? FFS
Has this country always been this divided by left and right views..? I'm getting pretty sick of it all tbh and i try and keep my political views neutral.
Ive never actually read that If poem all the way through, so cheers Planet H.
Considering in previous years we have murdered each other regularly over a difference of politics , a few snide comments on a QPR forum isn’t really much to worry about is it?
If anyone is mug enough to believe that "The White Man's Burden" is a racist poem then they need therapy. Certainly some of Kipling's attitudes were paternalistic in terms of the then "subject" races but his views on integrity and decency span all races. A great deal of garbage has been spouted about Mr K and he clearly lived in a very different era from 2018 but "The Sons of Martha" clearly identifies what he sees as valuable is hard work irrespective of the colour or race, or creed of the worker. What he resents are those who do little but receive much. This from a lifelong leftie and teacher of literature - it ain't all bollox!
Considering in previous years we have murdered each other regularly over a difference of politics , a few snide comments on a QPR forum isn’t really much to worry about is it?
[Post edited 22 Jul 2018 12:33]
Its not just on a QPR forum though is it.. its bloody all over the internet. Sure we've murdered each other over differences of political views in the past but has it been so left/right wing.? I thought religion was the main course of wars anyhow..? We're getting more and more divided as a country. Thats how i see it anyway. maybe its always been like it and i just haven't noticed.
"It is no use pretending that Kipling's view of life, as a whole, can be accepted or even forgiven by any civilized person. It is no use claiming, for instance, that when Kipling describes a British soldier beating a 'ni*ger' with a cleaning rod in order to get money out of him, he is acting merely as a reporter and does not necessarily approve what he describes. There is not the slightest sign anywhere in Kipling's work that he disapproves of that kind of conduct--on the contrary, there is a definite strain of sadism in him, over and above the brutality which a writer of that type has to have. Kipling is a jingo imperialist, he is morally insensitive and aesthetically disgusting."
"I wandered lonely as a cloud That floats on high o'er vales and hills, When all at once I saw a crowd, A host, of golden daffodils; Beside the lake, beneath the trees, Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.
Continuous as the stars that shine And twinkle on the milky way, They stretched in never-ending line Along the margin of a bay: Ten thousand saw I at a glance, Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.
The waves beside them danced; but they Out-did the sparkling waves in glee: A poet could not but be gay, In such a jocund company: I gazed–and gazed–but little thought What wealth the show to me had brought:
For oft, when on my couch I lie In vacant or in pensive mood, They flash upon that inward eye Which is the bliss of solitude; And then my heart with pleasure fills, And dances with the daffodils.
William Wordsworth.
"In the land of the Bumbley Boo The People are red white and blue, They never blow noses, Or ever wear closes, What a sensible thing to do!
In the land of the Bumbley Boo You can buy Lemon pie at the zoo; They give away foxes In little Pink Boxes And Bottles of Dandelion Stew.
In the land of the Bumbley Boo You never see a Gnu, But thousands of cats Wearing trousers and hats Made of Pumpkins and Pelican Glue!
Oh, the Bumbley Boo! the Bumbley Boo! That's the place for me and you! So hurry! Let's run! The train leaves at one! For the land of the Bumbley Boo! The wonderful Bumbley Boo-Boo-Boo! The Wonderful Bumbley BOO!!!
Spike Milligan.
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
Its not just on a QPR forum though is it.. its bloody all over the internet. Sure we've murdered each other over differences of political views in the past but has it been so left/right wing.? I thought religion was the main course of wars anyhow..? We're getting more and more divided as a country. Thats how i see it anyway. maybe its always been like it and i just haven't noticed.
Yeah it’s unpleasant, but the creation of the Keyboard Warrior means people are glassing each other in pubs less.
Considering in previous years we have murdered each other regularly over a difference of politics , a few snide comments on a QPR forum isn’t really much to worry about is it?
[Post edited 22 Jul 2018 12:33]
That's cause we've gone soft. Do you fancy meeting up for a duel to the death sir?
Whilst I admire Orwell as a major writer and influential figure in the literature and thought of the 20th Century, the context of this essay needs consideration. Orwell himself despised his role as a policeman in Burma upholding imperialist beliefs and yet unable to divorce himself from his "english" attitudes. Kipling certainly upholds the idea of Empire as a "good thing" but to label him simply as racist is absurd. "The White Man's Burden" was written in the context of the aftermath of the Spanish-American War. It urges the USA to go back on its criticism of Britain and other Imperial nations and take on the burden of "improving" the myriad cultures and languages of the "fluttered" people. Obnoxious as it may appear in hindsight from 2018 the notion that it was the duty of the "higher" (i.e European) nations to educate, to spread religion and to civilise races who were viewed as less developed was a nearly universally held one.The destruction of Roger Casement by the British govt during World war One was not simply a death for treason but because he was a perpetual embarassment with his views on imperialist exploitation. The obscenities of Belgian behaviour in the Congo are symptomatic of the blatant exploitation of mineral, or animal resources and native labour which took place as part of this. Other repulsive episodes are not hard to find but neither Kipling nor writers like Conrad (despite Chinua Achene's views) endorse these behaviours. The "WMB" invites America to do its bit but a poem like "The Sons of Martha" `gets to the heart of Kipling - he praises those who work hard and scoffs at those who receive much and do little. His writing is full of admirable hard-workers of all races. I'd certainly go along with a description of him as prone to xenophobia about "little England" (See "The Mother Hive") but Gunga Din is "white pure white inside". "White" has little to do with the colour of one's skin,indicating that the water-carrier does his job conscientiously. Kipling's targets were the lazy and indolent: his heroes are the men and women who are faithful and hardworking - irrespective of creed or colour.
Also, I can help but despair as I see the "anti-fascists are the real fascists" (because people don't like to face up to criticism of this country's violent and repressive past - colonialism was bad guys, deal with it), meanwhile, actual fascists are out marching on the street, gaining traction everywhere.
The exact same thing happened in Germany - the conservative and liberal establishments were terrified of the communists and enabled the far right and even put them in power.
They didn't like it that much once they were in charge. And I don't think you'll like them much eaither
Also, I can help but despair as I see the "anti-fascists are the real fascists" (because people don't like to face up to criticism of this country's violent and repressive past - colonialism was bad guys, deal with it), meanwhile, actual fascists are out marching on the street, gaining traction everywhere.
The exact same thing happened in Germany - the conservative and liberal establishments were terrified of the communists and enabled the far right and even put them in power.
They didn't like it that much once they were in charge. And I don't think you'll like them much eaither
Horrendous apologist aside, that old chestnut is bullshit anyway. All four of them have massive social problems in their respective countries and Poverty unlike anything in Western Europe. Areas of Michigan and Puerto Rico in the worlds largest economy don't have running water and electricity.
Horrendous apologist aside, that old chestnut is bullshit anyway. All four of them have massive social problems in their respective countries and Poverty unlike anything in Western Europe. Areas of Michigan and Puerto Rico in the worlds largest economy don't have running water and electricity.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2018 13:15]
"At least they got the trains to run on time."
Keep bashing away citizen Bazza! The Timid Once proud Thunderer Times is a sad ghost of itself Trying to stitch up and smear the Grenfell Action Group peoples champion and whistleblower Joe Delaney, the dirty yellow press bounders and troglodytes.
Not a fascist at all just a woodhouse style harmless old Etonian fogey?
[Post edited 24 Jul 2018 3:04]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
Also, I can help but despair as I see the "anti-fascists are the real fascists" (because people don't like to face up to criticism of this country's violent and repressive past - colonialism was bad guys, deal with it), meanwhile, actual fascists are out marching on the street, gaining traction everywhere.
The exact same thing happened in Germany - the conservative and liberal establishments were terrified of the communists and enabled the far right and even put them in power.
They didn't like it that much once they were in charge. And I don't think you'll like them much eaither
It's nuts, things are getting properly dystopian. We're at the point where talking about the possible rise of the far right seems academic, they are very much here and have the upper hand at the moment.
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