| Tory Leadership Race 09:57 - May 31 with 58174 views | Dorse |
Not a party political thing or a reason for an LFW punch-up, but I keep having the eerie feeling that eventually every single Tory MP will put themselves forward leaving Teresa May with the casting vote. At which point, she cackles maniacally and slowly points at Jacob Rees Mogg sitting at the back, with the entire parliamentary party turning to stare at him... He is seen to gulp and mutter 'Oh, copulate my happenstance' |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 20:46 - Jun 26 with 2751 views | baldyoldgit |
| Tory Leadership Race on 15:29 - Jun 26 by DannytheR |
Spoke to a career civil servant earlier who said the talk inside the trade is that either Corbyn goes in the next couple of weeks (which he might) or by 2020-21 Swinson ends up being given the mop and bucket and asked to clean up whatever sorry mess the country is in by then.
They're giving Johnson a year in the job. [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 15:29]
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he'll not make a month. EU will not negotiate with him or hunt. then what?
https://audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/video/I-174914 |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:04 - Jun 26 with 2720 views | FDC |
| Tory Leadership Race on 19:29 - Jun 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Seconded.
All we are being told is to brace ourselves for when the Purdah restrictions come in and Labour policy is put on equal footing with everyone else's.
At the last election Labour made up 20 pts because of it. Now the polling is mostly in Labour's favour Purdah is going to be very important because when we knock on doors people tell us they have no idea what Labour's policy is (thanks MSM) and all the people can talk about is Brexit.
JC has a exit plan I reckon but he'll see through the next GE first even if it's 2022 but i'll be amazed if there isn't one this year.
And yeah, Swinson as PM? lunacy. [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 19:32]
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I think that's correct to a point, but I also think Stephen Bush is correct when cautions that in 2017 both Corbyn and May were somewhat unknown quantities, so we should be wary of expecting quite the same election swing. But yeah that said the forcing of domestic issues onto the news will be massive. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:57 - Jun 27 with 2517 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Tory Leadership Race on 19:29 - Jun 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Seconded.
All we are being told is to brace ourselves for when the Purdah restrictions come in and Labour policy is put on equal footing with everyone else's.
At the last election Labour made up 20 pts because of it. Now the polling is mostly in Labour's favour Purdah is going to be very important because when we knock on doors people tell us they have no idea what Labour's policy is (thanks MSM) and all the people can talk about is Brexit.
JC has a exit plan I reckon but he'll see through the next GE first even if it's 2022 but i'll be amazed if there isn't one this year.
And yeah, Swinson as PM? lunacy. [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 19:32]
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"Polling mostly in Labour''s favour"???
Erm, no. Fallen by roughly half in the last six months. So have the Tories of course. More or less four way split round about 20% each for Lab, Con, Brexit Party and LDs with Greens on about 10% and the rest going to SNP, PC, UKIP etc. Been that way for about two months now.
In other news: Jeremy Corbyn now has worst approval ratings for any Leader of the Oppositon since 1978. Worse than Milliband, Foot, Ian Duncan-Smith, Kinnock, Hague...Had worse approval ratings than May when she was being forced to resign. | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 22:01 - Jun 27 with 2510 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:57 - Jun 27 by CiderwithRsie |
"Polling mostly in Labour''s favour"???
Erm, no. Fallen by roughly half in the last six months. So have the Tories of course. More or less four way split round about 20% each for Lab, Con, Brexit Party and LDs with Greens on about 10% and the rest going to SNP, PC, UKIP etc. Been that way for about two months now.
In other news: Jeremy Corbyn now has worst approval ratings for any Leader of the Oppositon since 1978. Worse than Milliband, Foot, Ian Duncan-Smith, Kinnock, Hague...Had worse approval ratings than May when she was being forced to resign. |
Other than YouGov Labour have lead every poll. Not saying they’re accurate but my statement is factually true .
https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/
True about Corbyn. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 23:52]
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| Tory Leadership Race on 22:04 - Jun 27 with 2504 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Tory Leadership Race on 23:28 - Jun 25 by SydneyRs |
The constant vitriol against Blair from the right over supposed war crimes is an interesting one. If the conservatives had been in power at the time, do you think they would have told the US to get stuffed and refused to take part in the hostilities because they were based on lies? No, me neither. Not really their style is it?
Australia had a right wing government at the time and they were on board just as quickly as the UK and Labour. Singling out Blair over this is a bit ridiculous IMO. |
"If the Conservatives had been in power..."
Well, we know the answer to that. All but 2 Conservatives voted for the Iraq War. The Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru and 84 Labour rebels (including Corbyn and the late Robin Cook) voted against. The Greens were against but had no MPs at the time.
Any Tory attacking Labour over Iraq is a hypocrite. | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 23:46 - Jun 27 with 2433 views | kensalriser |
Not quite, 17 Tories abstained. Generally true that a Tory government would absolutely have done the same though. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 00:17 - Jun 29 with 2342 views | CiderwithRsie |
No. Behind with Ipsos/MORI too. Incidentally, (or not actually) the latter were closest to getting the Euro election result right, with YouGov; YouGov second best but overstating the Brexit Party vote quite a lot.
Fundamental point is that there is no significant lead for anyone, so basing your assumptions on the idea that "Labour are leading in the polls" is just bloody daft. It's all to play for. | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 00:27 - Jun 29 with 2338 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Tory Leadership Race on 00:17 - Jun 29 by CiderwithRsie |
No. Behind with Ipsos/MORI too. Incidentally, (or not actually) the latter were closest to getting the Euro election result right, with YouGov; YouGov second best but overstating the Brexit Party vote quite a lot.
Fundamental point is that there is no significant lead for anyone, so basing your assumptions on the idea that "Labour are leading in the polls" is just bloody daft. It's all to play for. |
Never said it wasn’t to play for, but I’ll stick by my statement that we are ahead on average.
For the record poll leads don’t mean much to me anyway, and think Labour should fight hard even if we were 20 points ahead.
My main point wasthat Labour gained 20pts (from a similar position as now) in 2017 when Purdah was introduced is all. If we gained half of that on any of those polls we’d be running a majority government.
Give Corbyn and Labour fair TV exposure is all I ask. | | | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 05:09 - Jun 29 with 2296 views | essextaxiboy |
| Tory Leadership Race on 00:27 - Jun 29 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Never said it wasn’t to play for, but I’ll stick by my statement that we are ahead on average.
For the record poll leads don’t mean much to me anyway, and think Labour should fight hard even if we were 20 points ahead.
My main point wasthat Labour gained 20pts (from a similar position as now) in 2017 when Purdah was introduced is all. If we gained half of that on any of those polls we’d be running a majority government.
Give Corbyn and Labour fair TV exposure is all I ask. |
They are getting loads of exposure bit for the wrong reasons .... |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 12:38 - Jun 29 with 2153 views | derbyhoop |
Boris is getting plenty of exposure. The more he is subjected to scrutiny, the less he sounds like a PM. Not that Hunt (Theresa May in trousers) comes across much better. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 13:37 - Jun 29 with 2093 views | Boston |
West London Sport reckons Labour have made an offer of fifty million for Farage. Dunno, getting on a bit, little injury prone but does score when it matters. Me, I’d probably be looking abroad for a tried and proven veteran, Merkel’s looking a bit shaky over in Germany, might find a move attractive. | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 14:14 - Jun 29 with 2052 views | GloryHunter |
The Times is reporting today that Civil Servants think Corbyn will be gone soon due to "health" reasons (implying mental frailty). |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 14:32 - Jun 29 with 2025 views | Ned_Kennedys |
"It is understood that Shinner is leaving the civil service altogether to go into the private sector" |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 20:42 - Jun 30 with 1758 views | johncharles |
| Tory Leadership Race on 14:14 - Jun 29 by GloryHunter |
The Times is reporting today that Civil Servants think Corbyn will be gone soon due to "health" reasons (implying mental frailty). |
You mean that someone said something to someone who said he was a civil servant and repeated to someone else.
Someone said a civil servant told someone that Pogba was going to Brentford. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 21:20 - Jun 30 with 1734 views | colinallcars |
I've been a political animal all my life but Brexit, the paucity of talent and ability on both sides of the house plus the thought that one of these two awful people is going to be our next PM has made me give up. I've even stopped watching the news. To think the rabble we currently have in the House represents the best we can do is chilling. |  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 12:42 - Jul 6 with 1499 views | TacticalR |
| Tory Leadership Race on 12:02 - Jun 26 by FDC |
The was an interesting discussion between Will Davies and Jeremy Gilbert at Gilbert's Culture Power Politics lecture series recently, around the question of what exactly is going on at the moment? (and loosely Davies' book Nervous States). Part of the discussion concerned the thesis that essentially representational democracy is in crisis, and in fact has been since the 30s when large numbers of people were either actively connected to their local Conservative club or were in a union. Since then there has been an increasing disconnect between the identity of the electorate and those they elect. (Gilbert talks about how neoliberalism was always unpopular, but credit-fueled consumption and the sense that There Is No Alternative suppressed active dissent).
Gilbert maintains that Corbynism and the current Tory identity crisis is just a continuation of this crisis of representative democracy, the outcome of which will be the splitting of both Labour and the Tories into two or three smaller parties.
Can't really see a way out for the Tories at the moment, the Boris train is going to take them off the tracks for sure. And ultimately I think the Corbyn project won't survive trying to maintain the coalition of warring tribes within the Labour party for ever. I could see a Corbyn minority government leading on electoral reform, introducing PR, ultimately allowing breakaways to happen. |
That was not a particularly easy listen. I am not sure if recording a discussion is the best way to create a podcast. On the whole the question and answer format that Doug Lain uses in the Zero Books podcast works better, but he has a gift for asking questions. Also, Jeremy Gilbert sounded like Neil in the Young Ones.
I found some of the arguments a bit rambling and hard to follow. If I followed everything correctly the main argument seemed to be that the problems of representation are due to sociological changes. The analysis seemed in line with Marxism Today's arguments in the 1980s that all Labour's problems were due to (post-Fordist) sociological changes. However, whatever the sociological composition of the working class, the profit extraction system has not gone away and neither has the class it depends on. Another blast from the past was the woman in the audience going on about Beyond the Fragments. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 14:31 - Jul 6 with 1420 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:20 - Jun 30 by colinallcars |
I've been a political animal all my life but Brexit, the paucity of talent and ability on both sides of the house plus the thought that one of these two awful people is going to be our next PM has made me give up. I've even stopped watching the news. To think the rabble we currently have in the House represents the best we can do is chilling. |
I find the ‘they’re all the same’ and ‘no talent on both sides’ angle really is a really lazy take on the situation.
We are in this situation because of a dying corporate media failing to fully or fairly represent the views and policy of anyone that is not in line with their own interests.
Look at the policy and make a decision. It’s fcking easy. | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 15:33 - Jul 6 with 1383 views | colinallcars |
| Tory Leadership Race on 14:31 - Jul 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I find the ‘they’re all the same’ and ‘no talent on both sides’ angle really is a really lazy take on the situation.
We are in this situation because of a dying corporate media failing to fully or fairly represent the views and policy of anyone that is not in line with their own interests.
Look at the policy and make a decision. It’s fcking easy. |
I've always lambasted people for saying they're all the same, but when I look at the Labour party- a party of which I was once a member, I really don't see many if any that I have faith in. Sad, but true. | | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 15:42 - Jul 6 with 1379 views | DannyPaddox |
I saw the imperious Stewart Lee at Bush Hall last night doing a sort of dry run for his upcoming sold out shows at bigger venues. He didn't overdo the politics but made a point of repeating something he said in print almost two years ago that:
"the secret Tory steering committee always intended Boris Johnson to be leader of the party, and that Theresa May had only been put in place as a kind of palate cleanser, a nasty-tasting mouthwash that you swill around your gums before being forced to eat actual human shit."
Bon appetite everyone ðŸ‘🼠|  | | |
| Tory Leadership Race on 16:28 - Jul 6 with 1359 views | TacticalR |
| Tory Leadership Race on 21:20 - Jun 30 by colinallcars |
I've been a political animal all my life but Brexit, the paucity of talent and ability on both sides of the house plus the thought that one of these two awful people is going to be our next PM has made me give up. I've even stopped watching the news. To think the rabble we currently have in the House represents the best we can do is chilling. |
The way I look at politics at the moment is that everyone says the opposite of what they mean, and everything turns out the opposite of what it was supposed to be.
If Brexit was supposedly about independence, standing on our own two feet, and a bit of buccaneering on the high seas, all it has really done is shown the utter incompetence of the British establishment and accelerated the decline of Britain.
Who can profit from the chaos? Who can be involved in politics and yet not seem to be 'just a politician'? Politics is all about chameleons and Boris has always been a chameleon. | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 17:23 - Jul 6 with 1327 views | kensalriser |
Who can profit from the chaos?
Farage is doing very nicely. Brexit has turned into a nice little earner for him. | |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 17:48 - Jul 6 with 1302 views | Tonto |
I have often wondered why Farage, someone with German wife and kids with German passports is so desperate for us to leave the EU.
And then you realise he is up to his neck in hedge funds and monetary exchanges.
How much money do you think he stands to make out of Brexit? Probably less than Jacob Rhyss Mogg, because man of the people Jacob has over £150M fortune to bet on.
But they are "doing it for the people" aren't they. |  |
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| Tory Leadership Race on 17:49 - Jul 6 with 1300 views | loftboy |
| Tory Leadership Race on 17:23 - Jul 6 by kensalriser |
Who can profit from the chaos?
Farage is doing very nicely. Brexit has turned into a nice little earner for him. |
Pretty much like the miners strike for scargill. |  |
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