| Freeman to the blades 14:32 - Jun 21 with 38087 views | Gloucs_R |
For just £4m???
Surely we'd not let him go that cheaply |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 16:17 - Jun 26 with 3205 views | CorbyQPR |
I'm no accountant but I'm sure there must be a financial benefit to 'gifting' the naming rights to charity i.e. we can write the amount we could theoretically have sold the naming rights for to reduce the amount of tax we have to pay?
This would give an FFP benefit. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:30 - Jun 26 with 3123 views | BuckR |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:17 - Jun 26 by CorbyQPR |
I'm no accountant but I'm sure there must be a financial benefit to 'gifting' the naming rights to charity i.e. we can write the amount we could theoretically have sold the naming rights for to reduce the amount of tax we have to pay?
This would give an FFP benefit. |
Think even the best accountant in the world would struggle with that. Even then it would only qualify as a tax deduction expense off any tax bill we are liable for [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 16:32]
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| Freeman to the blades on 16:34 - Jun 26 with 3099 views | BostonR |
| Freeman to the blades on 15:59 - Jun 26 by wombat |
its always been the gran plan to recoup money invested/ thrown away since they arrived , Hence the hard on for the car giant land , plnk a stadium there with the selling point of the HS2 station bring people from far and wide to witness gigs boxing and the odd game of football , trouble is while being blinkered with car giant other suitable pieces of land were put up for sale and sold <dairy creat and the BBC site all would have given a good return for the outlay and build us a nice little stadium with the best transport infrastructure of any London club on its door step, when I asked Lee Hoss at the recent Q+A if we had even bid for that land his ansa was I don't know ! sorry don't buy that ansa and don't dislike him but id have though any one in his postion would have been made aware of all bids , ideas thoughts made previously to his appt LC is last chance saloon for a new ground in our area , maybe that's was the grand plan or uncle tone and friends are that stupid to leave it to the last bit of aval land in W12 when over bits were aval much much sooner and with little issues with planning permission ever being granted |
I don't buy the idea that they are hanging around to re-coup their investment.
They are serious businessmen who have a wide ranging portfolio of interests. I do not know the "ins and outs" of how all their interests are performing, but it would not surprise me if they have lost money on other parts of their respective business empires.
Also, in my experience in real-estate investment (almost 30yrs) investors from APAC do not generally walk away from their mistakes - they put them right, even if it costs them money.
As for other land in the general area, you and I have no idea on ownership of those parcels of land - I could find out. Might well be that the Board made an enquiry and baulked at the price - that happens frequently.
If I were advising, I would instruct them to stay the course on LC unless another nearby land-owner offers up a better deal. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:36 - Jun 26 with 3088 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 15:36 - Jun 26 by CamberleyR |
"could the club have considered 'selling' the naming rights to an owner business for a significant sum? This way we straighten out the books without selling off Loftus Road"
Not quite as simple as that. That sort of loophole was clamped down on a few years ago by UEFA when Manchester City announced a 10 year naming rights deal with Etihad (which was owned by the half brother of City's owner Sheikh Mansour) for £400m. Etihad at the time were a third the size of BA and had yet to make a profit since starting in 2004.
EDIT: Just seen that Clive alluded to that in his reply. [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 15:46]
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I doubt UEFA would be interested in little ol' QPR. They were more concerned with Man City essentially trying to buy the Champions League.
Besides, you're comparing apples with pears. Man City tried to rename individual parts of the stadium - very different to naming an entire stadium which Man City and many other clubs have done.
As it's clearly permissible the question is not whether QPR can do it but how much they could realistically sell those naming rights for. Clive has alluded to restrictions based on strength of the brand. In that case, I'm still wondering how the football powerhouse that is Wigan Athletic manage to generate income from its owner by renaming its stadium to JJB? |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:47 - Jun 26 with 3021 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:17 - Jun 26 by CorbyQPR |
I'm no accountant but I'm sure there must be a financial benefit to 'gifting' the naming rights to charity i.e. we can write the amount we could theoretically have sold the naming rights for to reduce the amount of tax we have to pay?
This would give an FFP benefit. |
At best, this would attract some tax relief. Surely it would be more beneficial to QPR to sell the naming rights for a direct cash injection? In addition, the buyer (i.e. Tune Group) could offset the expense against its tax liability.
All that said, I do agree with Clive that Hoos hasn't simply gifted the naming rights in a fit of philanthropy; he has something up his sleeve. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:48 - Jun 26 with 3019 views | Northernr |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:36 - Jun 26 by Benny_the_Ball |
I doubt UEFA would be interested in little ol' QPR. They were more concerned with Man City essentially trying to buy the Champions League.
Besides, you're comparing apples with pears. Man City tried to rename individual parts of the stadium - very different to naming an entire stadium which Man City and many other clubs have done.
As it's clearly permissible the question is not whether QPR can do it but how much they could realistically sell those naming rights for. Clive has alluded to restrictions based on strength of the brand. In that case, I'm still wondering how the football powerhouse that is Wigan Athletic manage to generate income from its owner by renaming its stadium to JJB? |
Do we know how much they get from that? Bet it aint much. And also the value there will come from the rugby league side of things, absolutely massive in that town and Wigan the best known UK club down under. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:49 - Jun 26 with 3007 views | Match82 |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:36 - Jun 26 by Benny_the_Ball |
I doubt UEFA would be interested in little ol' QPR. They were more concerned with Man City essentially trying to buy the Champions League.
Besides, you're comparing apples with pears. Man City tried to rename individual parts of the stadium - very different to naming an entire stadium which Man City and many other clubs have done.
As it's clearly permissible the question is not whether QPR can do it but how much they could realistically sell those naming rights for. Clive has alluded to restrictions based on strength of the brand. In that case, I'm still wondering how the football powerhouse that is Wigan Athletic manage to generate income from its owner by renaming its stadium to JJB? |
Doesn't that pre date FFP?
And I'm not sure if they got money for it or whether Whelan just used it as a promotional vehicle for his brand because he owned the club |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:50 - Jun 26 with 3002 views | wombat |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:34 - Jun 26 by BostonR |
I don't buy the idea that they are hanging around to re-coup their investment.
They are serious businessmen who have a wide ranging portfolio of interests. I do not know the "ins and outs" of how all their interests are performing, but it would not surprise me if they have lost money on other parts of their respective business empires.
Also, in my experience in real-estate investment (almost 30yrs) investors from APAC do not generally walk away from their mistakes - they put them right, even if it costs them money.
As for other land in the general area, you and I have no idea on ownership of those parcels of land - I could find out. Might well be that the Board made an enquiry and baulked at the price - that happens frequently.
If I were advising, I would instruct them to stay the course on LC unless another nearby land-owner offers up a better deal. |
the land in question was for sale freely , the dairy crest site was sold for around 105 million
BBC site around 300 million
Dairy crest is now being redeveloped into flats and a small village type development with doctors small shops ,
Unless the council are going to literally give us the LC site then the diary crest site was the most perfect site aval to us and was aval for sale at the same time as the club went balls deep for the car giant site , which would have been a lot cheaper due to location but has zero transport infastructre around it , the if they wlll build thill come meant a bloody long walk from white city station most weeks.
sorry to disagree but the only way the owners will now get anything close to what they spunked up the wall is a land grab deal , we aren't going up and staying up anytime soon so cant grab the sky millions for a couple of seasons either |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 17:15 - Jun 26 with 2910 views | BostonR |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:50 - Jun 26 by wombat |
the land in question was for sale freely , the dairy crest site was sold for around 105 million
BBC site around 300 million
Dairy crest is now being redeveloped into flats and a small village type development with doctors small shops ,
Unless the council are going to literally give us the LC site then the diary crest site was the most perfect site aval to us and was aval for sale at the same time as the club went balls deep for the car giant site , which would have been a lot cheaper due to location but has zero transport infastructre around it , the if they wlll build thill come meant a bloody long walk from white city station most weeks.
sorry to disagree but the only way the owners will now get anything close to what they spunked up the wall is a land grab deal , we aren't going up and staying up anytime soon so cant grab the sky millions for a couple of seasons either |
I note the land cost, but given the preferred option from the planners is residential development I doubt we would have been successful building a football stadium in the middle, which would have been probably hamstrung by onerous operating limitations.
In my view, it is not a land grab. Local Council, with little available funding, following a process to re-develop an almost derelict site and with a very interested party who has the means to develop said site. Good deal - not a land grab. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 17:49 - Jun 26 with 2789 views | R_from_afar |
| Freeman to the blades on 14:13 - Jun 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I for one am not willing to sell the QPR soul for a slither of financial gain.
Would rather get relegated.
I just don’t trust this board. Not because of the Hughes / Redknapp years, but because they are all venture and property capitalists that don’t just buy into football clubs for the craic.
I suspect Loftus Rd is the reason that some of the property magnates are involved. You mark my words, QPR is just a vehicle to property speculation. That is my prediction.
Until a supporter is elected onto the board to keep an eye on things I just can’t relax. I don’t lose sleep over any Freeman or Luongo transfers, it’s the future of our stadium and the future flight of capital to absent billionaires like Reuben that keeps me awake. [Post edited 26 Jun 2019 14:19]
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I get where you are coming from and I too am uneasy about it, but to put things in perspective, there are a lot of clubs where the ownership picture is similar, or even worse. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Freeman to the blades on 18:28 - Jun 26 with 2665 views | GroveR |
| Freeman to the blades on 15:07 - Jun 26 by derbyhoop |
Quick correction, Clive. From a former Derby resident.
Pride Park was one of the first buildings on what used to be wasteland. It is now a thriving industrial/retail estate. |
I stayed in the penta for a week while working at Rolls Royce. It's a thriving industrial/retail area in the Hayes stylee (you go there if you have to). |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 19:36 - Jun 26 with 2500 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Freeman to the blades on 17:49 - Jun 26 by R_from_afar |
I get where you are coming from and I too am uneasy about it, but to put things in perspective, there are a lot of clubs where the ownership picture is similar, or even worse. |
I feel uneasy for them too!
I look upon Derby, Doncaster, and Darlington as examples of land exploitation that I don't want us to follow. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:13 - Jun 26 with 2115 views | Irish_Hoop |
| Freeman to the blades on 16:17 - Jun 26 by CorbyQPR |
I'm no accountant but I'm sure there must be a financial benefit to 'gifting' the naming rights to charity i.e. we can write the amount we could theoretically have sold the naming rights for to reduce the amount of tax we have to pay?
This would give an FFP benefit. |
I am an accountant and we can’t write off the amount foregone for tax purposes. Even if we did pay tax. | | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:05 - Jun 27 with 1996 views | timcocking |
Surprise, surprise, Crystal Palace sell an under 21 year old i've never heard of for 50 million. |  | | |
| Freeman to the blades on 01:23 - Jun 27 with 1992 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Freeman to the blades on 23:13 - Jun 26 by Irish_Hoop |
I am an accountant and we can’t write off the amount foregone for tax purposes. Even if we did pay tax. |
Mmm, interesting. In any case, given that QPR regularly make a loss is any corporation tax even due (and therefore there's nothing to write off against)? [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 1:25]
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| Freeman to the blades on 09:23 - Jun 27 with 1848 views | Northernr |
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| Freeman to the blades on 10:41 - Jun 27 with 1729 views | TheChef |
| Freeman to the blades on 09:23 - Jun 27 by Northernr |
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Ah how nice, so that's all OK then. |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 11:34 - Jun 27 with 1631 views | davman |
| Freeman to the blades on 10:41 - Jun 27 by TheChef |
Ah how nice, so that's all OK then. |
So, why don't we do it before they close that particular loop hole. This is not to wildly expand our expenditure and go on a supermarket frenzy, just to protect us against a second breach, which will mean at least one relegation for the club after a points deduction kicks in...
Yes, it means that the club potentially "loses" an asset, but surely there are clauses that can be installed to ensure that the stadium stays in friendly hands and cannot be sold separately from the club?
So easy running and owning a football club, isn't it? |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 11:46 - Jun 27 with 1577 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Freeman to the blades on 11:34 - Jun 27 by davman |
So, why don't we do it before they close that particular loop hole. This is not to wildly expand our expenditure and go on a supermarket frenzy, just to protect us against a second breach, which will mean at least one relegation for the club after a points deduction kicks in...
Yes, it means that the club potentially "loses" an asset, but surely there are clauses that can be installed to ensure that the stadium stays in friendly hands and cannot be sold separately from the club?
So easy running and owning a football club, isn't it? |
It’s not just an asset, it’s a asset we’ve held onto on and off for 100 years and will only grow in value and holds a special place one every QPR fan’s heart.
Imagine we sold it and brought the equivalent of 3 or 4 Bosingwas?
This FFP saga is only a blip in the QPR story, Loftus Rd is it’s backbone.
Would be a massive, massive, MASSIVE mistake. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 11:52]
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| Freeman to the blades on 11:52 - Jun 27 with 1551 views | Gloucs_R |
| Freeman to the blades on 11:46 - Jun 27 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It’s not just an asset, it’s a asset we’ve held onto on and off for 100 years and will only grow in value and holds a special place one every QPR fan’s heart.
Imagine we sold it and brought the equivalent of 3 or 4 Bosingwas?
This FFP saga is only a blip in the QPR story, Loftus Rd is it’s backbone.
Would be a massive, massive, MASSIVE mistake. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 11:52]
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So what do we do, drop down a League to where we would naturally sit under FFP? Be happy with mediocracy and mid-table finishes every season in league one?
or do we find land outside of the borough at a much cheaper rate and buy / build a new stadium? | |
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| Freeman to the blades on 12:10 - Jun 27 with 1495 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Freeman to the blades on 11:52 - Jun 27 by Gloucs_R |
So what do we do, drop down a League to where we would naturally sit under FFP? Be happy with mediocracy and mid-table finishes every season in league one?
or do we find land outside of the borough at a much cheaper rate and buy / build a new stadium? |
Yes! Shit but solvent suits me fine. We’ve been mediocre in League 1 for 90% of our existence. I look at similarly sized clubs like Burnley who have been reasonably successful recently without selling their stadium as an example not Derby County!
Like selling your house to pay for a Gas Bill then renting it back for 30 years.
And as for building outside the Borough for cheaper land it’s not worked out for Bolton,Coventry, Darlington, Reading.
No thanks. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 12:25]
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| Freeman to the blades on 12:46 - Jun 27 with 1410 views | CamberleyR |
| Freeman to the blades on 12:10 - Jun 27 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yes! Shit but solvent suits me fine. We’ve been mediocre in League 1 for 90% of our existence. I look at similarly sized clubs like Burnley who have been reasonably successful recently without selling their stadium as an example not Derby County!
Like selling your house to pay for a Gas Bill then renting it back for 30 years.
And as for building outside the Borough for cheaper land it’s not worked out for Bolton,Coventry, Darlington, Reading.
No thanks. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 12:25]
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"We’ve been mediocre in League 1 for 90% of our existence"
You do like to exaggerate sometimes.
92 seasons in the league
39 seasons outside the top two divisions which included 3 promotions amongst them
So more like 40% |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 13:20 - Jun 27 with 1312 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Freeman to the blades on 12:10 - Jun 27 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yes! Shit but solvent suits me fine. We’ve been mediocre in League 1 for 90% of our existence. I look at similarly sized clubs like Burnley who have been reasonably successful recently without selling their stadium as an example not Derby County!
Like selling your house to pay for a Gas Bill then renting it back for 30 years.
And as for building outside the Borough for cheaper land it’s not worked out for Bolton,Coventry, Darlington, Reading.
No thanks. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 12:25]
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Reading had the best time of their existence since the new stadium. Bolton also had their best years for deacdes with the Reebok. Cov was a disaster. Darlington, well that was George Reynolds.
But i do agree with you otherwise. It's only a short term fix anyway and you can only do it once.
but galling that some clubs will use it as a loophole all the same. |  |
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| Freeman to the blades on 13:24 - Jun 27 with 1300 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Freeman to the blades on 12:46 - Jun 27 by CamberleyR |
"We’ve been mediocre in League 1 for 90% of our existence"
You do like to exaggerate sometimes.
92 seasons in the league
39 seasons outside the top two divisions which included 3 promotions amongst them
So more like 40% |
Fair enough I do exaggerate but they all look the same in the dark.
My point stands. | | | |
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