| bang goes oct then on 15:39 - Sep 22 with 2764 views | Cliff |
Perhaps this will be the final straw that makes clubs realise the lunacy of paying players such ridiculous wages |  | |  |
| bang goes oct then on 15:43 - Sep 22 with 2739 views | stowmarketrange |
| bang goes oct then on 15:39 - Sep 22 by Cliff |
Perhaps this will be the final straw that makes clubs realise the lunacy of paying players such ridiculous wages |
Then again,probably not. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 16:00 - Sep 22 with 2689 views | Cliff |
| bang goes oct then on 15:43 - Sep 22 by stowmarketrange |
Then again,probably not. |
No, probably not  | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 16:49 - Sep 22 with 2598 views | switchingcode |
| bang goes oct then on 10:58 - Sep 22 by loftboy |
And bang goes half the teams in the EFL |
If this is carried on into the new year then yes.Was hoping to get away from the tv and watch some non league ah well |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 17:45 - Sep 22 with 2501 views | francisbowles |
| bang goes oct then on 15:14 - Sep 22 by BostonR |
Just walk away from the TV contracts as a whole group. It's not enough to sustain the FL. |
The point I was trying to make is the club has certain fixed costs, the largest of which is paying the players, and may also include leases on training grounds, and these are there whether we play or not.
So does the TV money and any revenue from streaming cover the variable costs, which will include matchday operating costs and probably player bonuses, covid testing etc? | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 17:55 - Sep 22 with 2476 views | Cliff |
| bang goes oct then on 17:45 - Sep 22 by francisbowles |
The point I was trying to make is the club has certain fixed costs, the largest of which is paying the players, and may also include leases on training grounds, and these are there whether we play or not.
So does the TV money and any revenue from streaming cover the variable costs, which will include matchday operating costs and probably player bonuses, covid testing etc? |
Most clubs post a loss, so the revenues including ticket sales don't appear to cover expenses so I doubt they will without them | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 17:57 - Sep 22 with 2468 views | VancouverHoop |
| bang goes oct then on 12:13 - Sep 22 by stowmarketrange |
Does anybody know if these rules also apply to non league games?My season ticket at Needham Market might be as much use as my Qpr one if it does.
I spoke to one of the officials at AFC Sudbury last month at my daughter’s friendly match against their women’s team,and he said that their players contracts state that they have to be paid after the first competitive match of the season,which was the FA cup qualifying round last month.
But they were hoping to have a few hundred fans allowed in by then.There will be some really serious problems with a lot of clubs going to the wall if fans aren’t allowed in. [Post edited 22 Sep 2020 12:13]
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Apparently clubs at Step 3 and below are exempt. So Needham Market should be OK (as should Hitchin Town, my 'other team.' )
It's likely to finish many National League clubs though. | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 18:08 - Sep 22 with 2430 views | terryb |
| bang goes oct then on 12:13 - Sep 22 by stowmarketrange |
Does anybody know if these rules also apply to non league games?My season ticket at Needham Market might be as much use as my Qpr one if it does.
I spoke to one of the officials at AFC Sudbury last month at my daughter’s friendly match against their women’s team,and he said that their players contracts state that they have to be paid after the first competitive match of the season,which was the FA cup qualifying round last month.
But they were hoping to have a few hundred fans allowed in by then.There will be some really serious problems with a lot of clubs going to the wall if fans aren’t allowed in. [Post edited 22 Sep 2020 12:13]
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I don't think attendfing Needham is affected, but we will know for definite by the weekend. It will certainly hit non-league fans hard if they can't have crowds
That was a bad result for them last night. Going out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle in a season when the prize money is so important!
Good luck to Chesh at Hastings tonight & the 60 (full away ticket allocation) of their fans in attendance. | | | |
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| bang goes oct then on 18:18 - Sep 22 with 2390 views | Mistication92 |
Be honest, with the clear prospect that there'll be no fans this season, continue or bin? I'm mainly talking about the entertainment value of it, rather than financial.
TBH I'm not really enjoying it and I wouldn't be bothered if it was cancelled. | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 18:57 - Sep 22 with 2326 views | The_Beast1976 |
| bang goes oct then on 18:18 - Sep 22 by Mistication92 |
Be honest, with the clear prospect that there'll be no fans this season, continue or bin? I'm mainly talking about the entertainment value of it, rather than financial.
TBH I'm not really enjoying it and I wouldn't be bothered if it was cancelled. |
For the glory hunting masses watching the Premiershit around the globe I guess it makes little difference, therefore that will undoubtedly continue as it is (at the end of the day, the Premiershit is all about a global tv audience, tv money, and little else anyway)
Not sure what the Championship should do really. There will probably be mixed feelings amongst fans [Post edited 22 Sep 2020 19:19]
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| bang goes oct then on 19:10 - Sep 22 with 2289 views | francisbowles |
| bang goes oct then on 17:55 - Sep 22 by Cliff |
Most clubs post a loss, so the revenues including ticket sales don't appear to cover expenses so I doubt they will without them |
I think you have misunderstood my point:
I know that the revenue doesn't exceed the total costs as we make a loss normally. This is obviously made worse if no tickets are sold. However, some costs are incurred anyway, the fixed costs and some are only incurred if we play, the variable costs.
So can we make enough playing behind closed doors from TV etc to cover the variable costs or are we better off cancelling the fixtures?
If anyone is skilled in reading the club accounts and can answer this it would be interesting to know. | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 19:18 - Sep 22 with 2257 views | daveB |
| bang goes oct then on 18:18 - Sep 22 by Mistication92 |
Be honest, with the clear prospect that there'll be no fans this season, continue or bin? I'm mainly talking about the entertainment value of it, rather than financial.
TBH I'm not really enjoying it and I wouldn't be bothered if it was cancelled. |
I'd probably go on the side of bin the season off but I'd still miss even this weird crappy version of football |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 20:00 - Sep 22 with 2171 views | terryb |
| bang goes oct then on 19:18 - Sep 22 by daveB |
I'd probably go on the side of bin the season off but I'd still miss even this weird crappy version of football |
I think the problem with that is starting up again.
Many clubs went to the wall after the close downs for the first & second world wars. Adninistratively, continuing would be simpler.
It might even be cheaper for clubs to play this seasson at a loss than sitting out the season, as I assume they would still have full wages to pay. Especiallyy at Championship level wherer they receive some income from television. | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 20:40 - Sep 22 with 2098 views | Toast_R |
Football is nothing without the fans. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 21:04 - Sep 22 with 2058 views | slmrstid |
| bang goes oct then on 19:10 - Sep 22 by francisbowles |
I think you have misunderstood my point:
I know that the revenue doesn't exceed the total costs as we make a loss normally. This is obviously made worse if no tickets are sold. However, some costs are incurred anyway, the fixed costs and some are only incurred if we play, the variable costs.
So can we make enough playing behind closed doors from TV etc to cover the variable costs or are we better off cancelling the fixtures?
If anyone is skilled in reading the club accounts and can answer this it would be interesting to know. |
To be honest, I wouldn't say its the accounts for any club thats the problem - its cash.
Accounts can be manipulated (within reason, of course!) to enable insolvent businesses (which pretty much every football club is) for years and years and years.
The key to it all is access to cash - as long as a business has access to cashflow its ok. The moment it runs out of cash and hasn't got any access to any more - that's it. Game over.
If clubs go to the wall - it will be because they've run out of cash. And every club is going to be at risk of that - we're all subsidised by people who make their money off other businesses but if those businesses go to pot...
Cash is King, as they say. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 03:04 - Sep 23 with 1916 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I can’t believe many of the 72 FL clubs are solvent and viable business concerns. If all 72 clubs agreed to go into liquidation together, they would present many of the ‘issues’ from player contracts to paying local suppliers with a mass fait accompli - I wonder then if the government might step in?
A more probable thought from something suggested above about cancelling the season: you could furlough everyone and/or trigger any force majeure clause - which ‘should’ always be included in any contracts - to lawfully walk away from contractual obligations on the basis of an unforeseen event preventing contractual performance.
There would be a mad frenzy next season to sign players up, but at least there would be clubs about and able to sign players. [Post edited 23 Sep 2020 6:25]
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| bang goes oct then on 06:19 - Sep 23 with 1863 views | Myke |
Only a matter of time before another full lockdown both in England and Ireland so the 'no fans' thing becomes a non issue. West Ham and Charlton already have the virus so it's likely to run through all levels in the next few weeks. Second wave well up and running at this stage, at a more dangerous time of year than the first | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 06:56 - Sep 23 with 1837 views | Northernr |
I said it weeks ago but it remains astounding to me that this season was started before they'd held a vote on what would happen if it had to be suspended again or cancelled. After all that infighting, confusion and controversy over PPG or weighted points per game or take the tables as they are last time you'd think they'd have sorted out a definitive set of procedures for this one without just ploughing on with it. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 07:43 - Sep 23 with 1785 views | Phildo |
| bang goes oct then on 06:56 - Sep 23 by Northernr |
I said it weeks ago but it remains astounding to me that this season was started before they'd held a vote on what would happen if it had to be suspended again or cancelled. After all that infighting, confusion and controversy over PPG or weighted points per game or take the tables as they are last time you'd think they'd have sorted out a definitive set of procedures for this one without just ploughing on with it. |
I suppose that shows how desperate they were to get going again and of course at the time we were being told eat out to help out, some fans back from October et cetera. The scale of this is so big I think it's impossible to accurately forecast what is likely to happen. Even if they abandon FFP clubs with rich owners may start to find some of them are not as rich as expected. I think it was human nature to just hope things would be sorted out for the winter and it is now pretty obvious that it is not going to be that way. The obvious and sensible solution is for players to take pay cuts but the power of the PFA is something that is a major problem there. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 08:29 - Sep 23 with 1718 views | stevec |
| bang goes oct then on 06:56 - Sep 23 by Northernr |
I said it weeks ago but it remains astounding to me that this season was started before they'd held a vote on what would happen if it had to be suspended again or cancelled. After all that infighting, confusion and controversy over PPG or weighted points per game or take the tables as they are last time you'd think they'd have sorted out a definitive set of procedures for this one without just ploughing on with it. |
Absolutely. Unfortunately football has been driven by greed and for some reason club owners in EFL Championship still haven’t got their heads around the problems they’ve largely driven .
Hard to see a solution, least a legal one, but wonder if they should collectively agree to end season, defer existing contracts until football can start with full stadiums, and furlough players until contract resumption.
They’ll be a kickback from players and some may decide to walk as contracts broken but looking at a club like ours, whilst they’d lose potential sale value of BOS and a couple of others, probably no more than £5-8 million, the club would save itself around £20 mill in player wages over a postponed season.
I think then most players would swallow a season of furlough and hang onto their contracts. |  | | |
| bang goes oct then on 08:41 - Sep 23 with 1696 views | The_Beast1976 |
| bang goes oct then on 08:29 - Sep 23 by stevec |
Absolutely. Unfortunately football has been driven by greed and for some reason club owners in EFL Championship still haven’t got their heads around the problems they’ve largely driven .
Hard to see a solution, least a legal one, but wonder if they should collectively agree to end season, defer existing contracts until football can start with full stadiums, and furlough players until contract resumption.
They’ll be a kickback from players and some may decide to walk as contracts broken but looking at a club like ours, whilst they’d lose potential sale value of BOS and a couple of others, probably no more than £5-8 million, the club would save itself around £20 mill in player wages over a postponed season.
I think then most players would swallow a season of furlough and hang onto their contracts. |
"Most players would swallow a season for furlough".
There is no government furlough scheme after next month, so the clubs would need to pay the players in any event (unless they went into administration or liquidation) [Post edited 23 Sep 2020 8:41]
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| bang goes oct then on 09:32 - Sep 23 with 1633 views | stevec |
| bang goes oct then on 08:41 - Sep 23 by The_Beast1976 |
"Most players would swallow a season for furlough".
There is no government furlough scheme after next month, so the clubs would need to pay the players in any event (unless they went into administration or liquidation) [Post edited 23 Sep 2020 8:41]
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True but think that’ll change soon. | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 09:44 - Sep 23 with 1598 views | daveB |
| bang goes oct then on 20:00 - Sep 22 by terryb |
I think the problem with that is starting up again.
Many clubs went to the wall after the close downs for the first & second world wars. Adninistratively, continuing would be simpler.
It might even be cheaper for clubs to play this seasson at a loss than sitting out the season, as I assume they would still have full wages to pay. Especiallyy at Championship level wherer they receive some income from television. |
Oh yeah it's not feasible really to bin it now even after 2 games they'll need a bailout for the lower leagues and will carry on, i just meant as a fan if they scrapped it today for the season I wouldn't shed any tears | | | |
| bang goes oct then on 10:08 - Sep 23 with 1550 views | francisbowles |
| bang goes oct then on 09:44 - Sep 23 by daveB |
Oh yeah it's not feasible really to bin it now even after 2 games they'll need a bailout for the lower leagues and will carry on, i just meant as a fan if they scrapped it today for the season I wouldn't shed any tears |
I'd rather have it on a stream than not at all. | | | |
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