| Furs leaving on 11:06 - Nov 29 with 2378 views | JamesB1979 |
| Furs leaving on 10:53 - Nov 29 by QPR_Jim |
In response to Matt's article, I had a few thoughts of my own.
The Transparency Myth
Injuries and contracts – It took the uproar to get them too loosen this up, their instinct was that they could get away with telling us nothing and it backfired. Kind of suggests they have a bad read of the situation they are in.
Martí on gardening leave – He was a popular manager and an asset that we paid to leave, could have been handled better after the last game of the season, again poor reading of the situation I would say.
This week’s uproar about Furlong – See Clive’s point about not needing to settle people leaving amicably.
Why My View Has Changed — And Why I Back the Leadership
“I see genuine progress, genuine competence, and genuine strategy.” I find it hard to agree that there is competence given the above.
For years, fans have said:
· “We need a club model that isn’t dependent on the manager.”
· “We need clarity about who’s actually responsible for decisions.”
· “We need to modernise our operations.”
“Well, now we finally have exactly that”. – We don’t, what do all these new head of whatever do? What does Ben Williams do? nobody knows.
We already had a DoF role, the issue wasn’t the structure so much as the owner interference as far as I could work out.
The Evidence: Tangible, Measurable Progress
Criticism thrives in the absence of information. So let’s focus on what we do know, using actual data and on-pitch evidence.
1. The Managerial Decision: Replacing Martí Was Spot On
“Stephan is a clear upgrade on Martí” He’s different but you’re not going to get a fair comparison when you compare his performance this season with actual strikers to choose from against last seasons squad.
2. Talent Acquisition: A Recruitment Structure That Actually Works
In the last two years, recruitment has transformed. The structure, the process, the profiles, all of it.
“The squad is more balanced than at any point in the last decade.” – Again it took having a very unbalanced squad last season to get to that realisation you can’t just keep buying 10’s. Learning on the job and we’re still short in some areas.
“The club is smarter, leaner, and far more strategic than during the Ferdinand era.” – There seems to be less interference from above. Not sure I’d say repeatedly telling players they’re free to leave then needing to rely on them is massively strategic.
“In two years, Nourry has achieved more with less.” – I’m not sure he does have less, some expensive seasons rolled out of our FFP window for Marti’s second season and we spent money on several players but ended up with the most unbalanced squad I can remember then this summer the Eze money. Why is this being framed as doing more with less?
3. Youth Structure: Real Progress, Real Results
Too early to tell, we’ve signed some exciting 18yo prospects that should be able to come through into the first team after some time in the development squad. But we did that with Eze, Manning, BOS, Walsh, Kelman, Lloyd previously with varying results, so not new.
4. Operational Decisions: Small Things That Make a Big Difference
Small things like how we treat our staff and players, sacking managers and coaches that are popular, telling players they can leave when we still need them, all bound to have more of an effect than who’s sat in the School end.
The Owners: Still Investing, Still Writing Off Losses
“People love to assume the owners are inactive or detached. Yet they continue to write off losses and keep the club afloat while moving us toward becoming as self-sufficient as possible. That matters. It’s real commitment, not PR.” – Not doubting the owners financial commitment, but they can still be hands off day to day, which is a concern if the people in charge start to put their own interests above those of the club.
So Why the Relentless Negativity?
See above |
But you’ve said nothing positive. Isn’t there anything you’re happy with the club at the moment? |  | |  |
| Furs leaving on 11:32 - Nov 29 with 2255 views | GroveR |
| Furs leaving on 11:06 - Nov 29 by JamesB1979 |
But you’ve said nothing positive. Isn’t there anything you’re happy with the club at the moment? |
... and Matt said nothing negative in his post.
Following Rangers is becoming increasingly Brexit-ish - if you're not 100% behind Nourry and the project you're an idiot and if you are, conversely everyone else is an idiot. It's a tired trope but two things can be true at the same time.
Matt finishes by exhorting us all to "support the things we do know." I do know our best options at left-back are a loan deemed surplus to requirements at a team in the relegation spots and Sam Field. You cannot look at that one position - an issue for 3 years now - and wax lyrical about balance and depth. |  | | |
| Furs leaving on 11:34 - Nov 29 with 2248 views | QPR_Jim |
| Furs leaving on 11:06 - Nov 29 by JamesB1979 |
But you’ve said nothing positive. Isn’t there anything you’re happy with the club at the moment? |
The article is about why the negativity towards the leadership, so I'm explaining why some people, like myself, can be negative about the leadership.
There are some positives but it's hard to get excited about it when we're still being run by people who you can't trust. Some of the examples I put show a pattern of getting obvious things wrong and having to be told which makes me question their competence.
It's a bit like the playoff final, walking down the steps at Wembley after celebrating the win my dad mentioned HR and I wanted him to be sacked before the start of next season. Short term wins shouldn't cloud the longer term picture and I don't the people running the day to day are competent. |  | | |
| Furs leaving on 11:37 - Nov 29 with 2220 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Berating WLS for uncovering 'Furgate', is like slagging off Bernstein and Woodward for their unpatriotic cheek at uncovering 'Watergate.'
Ok, bit extreme, but isn't that Bernstein, Woodward, and DMc's job? They are journos and that's what they are supposed to do: Uncover the news!
I'm not WLS' biggest fan, I often find the chuckle brothers a bit dour, but DMc has never struck me as anything other than being honest and isn't a sensationalist scandalmonger, prepared to write unfounded crap. I'd trust him on all things QPR related over many others currently and down the years, and, oh yeah, he was also 100% correct on this one! |  |
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| Furs leaving on 11:39 - Nov 29 with 2203 views | KensalT |
| Furs leaving on 23:38 - Nov 28 by Ned_Kennedys |
And a large percentage of QPR fans agree with a lot of Matt Winton’s opinions and prefer not to dwell in negativity a lot of the time. Supporters eh? |
QPR is a football club not a religion.
People are allowed to have different opinions and question the leadership.
My problem with Matt Winton's piece is that it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. It's all feeling and emotion without displaying any serious thinking.
I'm not saying Matt Winton is stupid and it's clear that a lot of people do agree with what he has to say. But it's very easy to pick apart what he wrote and see it as nothing more than wishful thinking
Paul Furlong has a long association with the club and has achieved success and popularity here. For him to be leaving mid season with no clear explanation as to why is bound to raise questions as to what is going on and why.
I would much prefer that we did have real transparency and proper discussion around these things rather than being a happy clappy congregation grateful for whatever we are served up on and off the pitch.
We pride ourselves on being a maverick club.
Maverick's are independent and think for themselves. They don't settle for being told what to think and believe. | | | |
| Furs leaving on 11:40 - Nov 29 with 2198 views | QPR_Jim |
| Furs leaving on 10:54 - Nov 29 by JamesB1979 |
That wasn’t really my point. I had a few light ales so maybe it wasn’t clear though. Earlier it was said that Matt Winton said that both WLS and this site reported something that wasn’t based on facts. My point was that Matt Winton doesn’t say that. He says the reasons were not given and that led to fan reactions etc. Fans can think what they like. That part I disagree with Matt on. But he certainly wasn’t disparaging Dave Mc or Clive in my view.
I also respect and like what Clive writes a hell of a lot. When my Dad was dying in hospital (many years ago), I used to print his match reports for him as they would cheer him up! I certainly don’t come on here for the political debates! |
Wasn't having a pop at you, just responding to the point that Matt made. Why the reaction to the WLS article, because they've been around a long time and the fans trust them.
I think it's one of the things we should be proud of as a club with writing like Clive's and AKUTR's. As you point out, it allows people to keep connected to the club wherever they are and in whatever circumstances. | | | |
| Furs leaving on 12:43 - Nov 29 with 1983 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Furs leaving on 11:34 - Nov 29 by QPR_Jim |
The article is about why the negativity towards the leadership, so I'm explaining why some people, like myself, can be negative about the leadership.
There are some positives but it's hard to get excited about it when we're still being run by people who you can't trust. Some of the examples I put show a pattern of getting obvious things wrong and having to be told which makes me question their competence.
It's a bit like the playoff final, walking down the steps at Wembley after celebrating the win my dad mentioned HR and I wanted him to be sacked before the start of next season. Short term wins shouldn't cloud the longer term picture and I don't the people running the day to day are competent. |
As my Russian tattoo artist told me (mid-tattoo), 'trust nobody - not even yourself!' |  |
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| Furs leaving on 12:50 - Nov 29 with 1984 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Furs leaving on 11:32 - Nov 29 by GroveR |
... and Matt said nothing negative in his post.
Following Rangers is becoming increasingly Brexit-ish - if you're not 100% behind Nourry and the project you're an idiot and if you are, conversely everyone else is an idiot. It's a tired trope but two things can be true at the same time.
Matt finishes by exhorting us all to "support the things we do know." I do know our best options at left-back are a loan deemed surplus to requirements at a team in the relegation spots and Sam Field. You cannot look at that one position - an issue for 3 years now - and wax lyrical about balance and depth. |
What a terrible example to make your point: Larkeche was due to be our first choice left back with Esquerdinha as back up and a few others like Field able to play there if needed. Larkeche gets a long term injury so the club bring in a loan player with Championship experience to cover who has turned out to be a very good left back for us.
Well done for finding the negatives about QPR from that. |  | | |
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| Furs leaving on 12:52 - Nov 29 with 1989 views | bullshootr |
| Furs leaving on 12:43 - Nov 29 by stainrods_elbow |
As my Russian tattoo artist told me (mid-tattoo), 'trust nobody - not even yourself!' |
Your Russian tattoo artist wasn't called Ludo by any chance?
Reminds me of a song Mike Harding used to sing about getting his todger inked as a young man then regretting it when he was older:
“It used to say Llandudno but now it just says Ludo, 90% of the time” (c) M.Harding [Post edited 29 Nov 12:58]
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| Furs leaving on 12:56 - Nov 29 with 1961 views | Geoff78 |
We'll always have Oldham! | | | |
| Furs leaving on 13:10 - Nov 29 with 1914 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Furs leaving on 12:56 - Nov 29 by Geoff78 |
We'll always have Oldham! |
And if Tommy Williams had squared it, we'd have had Cardiff too!!!! | |
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| Furs leaving on 14:38 - Nov 29 with 1758 views | numptydumpty |
| Furs leaving on 08:22 - Nov 29 by Hunterhoop |
As I keep saying lots of people know a lot more than is in the public domain because people talk. However there are serious insinuations of legal action which means no one can say everything they would want to. And people at the club have their livelihoods to think about, so they need to get things out through others. To ask for fans who are saying they know more than they can let on to just spill the beans on a public forum is, to be put it bluntly, stupid.
Instead some fans are trying to make other fans aware of what they can get away sharing, and some fans are trying to warn others who, not privy to the same information, they can see are misreading the situation(s).
Consider who on this MB has actually met members of our leadership, looked them in the eye, spoken with them, asked questions, etc. Then consider what their opinion seems to be about them. I have found there to be a remarkable consistency in these people.
And all of this does not mean everything the club and its leadership do is bad; it isn’t. But doing some good things doesn’t make the concerns of many less valid. |
Tell me on a private message then.
Thank you.
If you dont then i know what you are saying is just noise and is just your antagonism against Nourry and wishing him gone and you influencing others who will accept what you are implying, as opposed to genuinely knowing such awful and allegedly abuse of power behaviour which you are absolutely implying with no evidence or syatements explaining it so.
Send me a pm, as its hidden from public view, if you dont its evident whats happening here Hunter. [Post edited 29 Nov 14:55]
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| Furs leaving on 15:00 - Nov 29 with 1674 views | mart_Goblin |
Round and round and round we go .
The people throwing up distress flares on this message board don’t do it for their own ego as far as I can tell. They are trying to warn fans , without getting people in trouble of things they may find alarming and what other likeminded fans might be interested in .
The constant push back from the same old faces is frustrating .
You don’t have to agree or believe what’s said , of course , but the constant playground ‘politics of envy ‘, not liking that people know things you don’t know, is a little tiring .
Anyway , enjoy the game |  | | |
| Furs leaving on 15:07 - Nov 29 with 1643 views | GroveR |
| Furs leaving on 12:50 - Nov 29 by Ned_Kennedys |
What a terrible example to make your point: Larkeche was due to be our first choice left back with Esquerdinha as back up and a few others like Field able to play there if needed. Larkeche gets a long term injury so the club bring in a loan player with Championship experience to cover who has turned out to be a very good left back for us.
Well done for finding the negatives about QPR from that. |
I make a point that some people hold absolutist binary opinions and you prove it with the first four words of your reply. Well done, I'm impressed.
If you were at the Ipswich game and think that Esquerdinha is ready to be considered back up, I worry for you. | | | |
| Furs leaving on 15:40 - Nov 29 with 1584 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Can SUFC recall RND?
I wonder if we're trying something in lieu of his returning t'Yarkshire in a few weeks. | |
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| Furs leaving on 15:51 - Nov 29 with 1546 views | numptydumpty |
| Furs leaving on 15:00 - Nov 29 by mart_Goblin |
Round and round and round we go .
The people throwing up distress flares on this message board don’t do it for their own ego as far as I can tell. They are trying to warn fans , without getting people in trouble of things they may find alarming and what other likeminded fans might be interested in .
The constant push back from the same old faces is frustrating .
You don’t have to agree or believe what’s said , of course , but the constant playground ‘politics of envy ‘, not liking that people know things you don’t know, is a little tiring .
Anyway , enjoy the game |
No, am not enjoying the game so far.
And am not bothered that people know things i dont but if its so awful, then send me a pm and tell me so i can send to others, who are unaware, so we can all judge this with all knowing the full story and whether it is as atrocious as suggested
If its not shared in anyways without the danger of being on an open forum, then whats stopping people passing on information sensibly.
This is a forum where fans share their opinions to be discussed and we all come to our own conclusions. I
Perfectly reasonable suggestion and request surely !!! [Post edited 29 Nov 15:56]
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| Furs leaving on 15:56 - Nov 29 with 1522 views | eastside_r |
| Furs leaving on 14:38 - Nov 29 by numptydumpty |
Tell me on a private message then.
Thank you.
If you dont then i know what you are saying is just noise and is just your antagonism against Nourry and wishing him gone and you influencing others who will accept what you are implying, as opposed to genuinely knowing such awful and allegedly abuse of power behaviour which you are absolutely implying with no evidence or syatements explaining it so.
Send me a pm, as its hidden from public view, if you dont its evident whats happening here Hunter. [Post edited 29 Nov 14:55]
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And then have you blab it on here.
I can see why Hunter wouldn’t want to. |  | | |
| Furs leaving on 16:09 - Nov 29 with 1453 views | mart_Goblin |
| Furs leaving on 15:56 - Nov 29 by eastside_r |
And then have you blab it on here.
I can see why Hunter wouldn’t want to. |
Exactly.
How arrogant to think that people will just tell you privately.
Majority have no idea who you are or who you might tell .
People’s livelihoods are at stake. | | | |
| Furs leaving on 16:13 - Nov 29 with 1425 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Furs leaving on 16:09 - Nov 29 by mart_Goblin |
Exactly.
How arrogant to think that people will just tell you privately.
Majority have no idea who you are or who you might tell .
People’s livelihoods are at stake. |
Quite.
The arrogance is staggering.
Also the idea of Numpty telling people to post less on here! Not a hint of self awareness. |  | | |
| Furs leaving on 16:34 - Nov 29 with 1343 views | numptydumpty |
| Furs leaving on 16:09 - Nov 29 by mart_Goblin |
Exactly.
How arrogant to think that people will just tell you privately.
Majority have no idea who you are or who you might tell .
People’s livelihoods are at stake. |
i would not put it on here
Why would i
i would not at all....
Peoples livelihoods at stake.
Sounds illegal then...
[Post edited 29 Nov 16:37]
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| Furs leaving on 16:50 - Nov 29 with 1307 views | mart_Goblin |
| Furs leaving on 16:34 - Nov 29 by numptydumpty |
i would not put it on here
Why would i
i would not at all....
Peoples livelihoods at stake.
Sounds illegal then...
[Post edited 29 Nov 16:37]
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Sounds illegal then...
I don’t even know how to reply to that . | | | |
| Furs leaving on 17:14 - Nov 29 with 1207 views | numptydumpty |
| Furs leaving on 16:50 - Nov 29 by mart_Goblin |
Sounds illegal then...
I don’t even know how to reply to that . |
You really are making a mountain out of nothing.
I have asked politely and you, in particular, are completely misreading the sentiments.
its really not worth my while pursuing this and this is all rather strange.
I could ask in a world where its very difficult for employers to getvrid of staff without good legal reason, but this all seems all rather sad.
A silly little storm in a tea cup, but if it makes certain people feel important , so be it...
Good luck Goblin.
Anyhow you did me a favour. Wasnt at the game but had the feed on, and i lost focus second half. A terrible performance. This is where the important troubles are, not in a top secret god knows what !!! | |
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| Furs leaving on 17:59 - Nov 29 with 1119 views | numptydumpty |
| Furs leaving on 16:13 - Nov 29 by 1BobbyHazell |
Quite.
The arrogance is staggering.
Also the idea of Numpty telling people to post less on here! Not a hint of self awareness. |
Havent said anywhere for people to post less.
You making up stories.
This is all rather silly. | |
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| Furs leaving on 20:26 - Nov 29 with 908 views | ted_hendrix |
Phew this thread has gone down the pan. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Furs leaving (n/t) on 22:58 - Nov 29 with 698 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Furs leaving on 14:45 - Nov 26 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Does anyone know what time we'll be getting the Furlong was disloyal / incompetent lines? |
Call me nostradamus.
Anonymous accounts on social media claiming this very thing. [Post edited 29 Nov 23:13]
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