| 4-2-3-1 08:55 - Aug 17 with 1875 views | ParkRoyalR |
4-3-3 does not suit players currently available + fit to play, you cannot start SJ + Dozell together in a 3 man midfield,
4-2-3-1 worked last season and gave us more width in attack and provided fullback cover when they were being doubled up on like against Boro,
4-3-3 is just too narrow and we are a team with few athletes, so does not suit.
I get Beale is a top level coach but sometimes even top level coaches do not see the obvious (who would play Harry Maguire on the left of 3 CB's but at least 2 top level coaches have!)
Hopefully Willock is back against Rotherham and fit to start with Roberts + Chair in the 3 as we sorely missed his creativity in final 3rd last night.
I actually didn't think we played that badly last night and their goal was a fortunate rebound, but when you don't take your chances, are playing a narrow formation against young athletic team and are missing your stand-out creative player, this will happen.
More concerning with the 4-3-3 were our previous performances where we were fortunate to pick up points and maybe masked over the formation not being the right one to suit the players available. |  | | |  |
| 4-2-3-1 on 09:03 - Aug 17 with 1838 views | nix |
This seems to make a lot of sense. Maybe it's a horses for courses situation, but certainly this formation with these players didn't work against a team, as you say, that's full of running and direct like Blackpool last night. And without Willock in our team to provide extra drive and creativity. Maybe Roberts was a bit tired yesterday because he didn't provide that extra energy that he did against Sunderland.
Maybe being used to work with Premiership players doesn't help with MB because Championship players by definition have more limitations so are going to be less adaptable to certain formations. |  | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 09:17 - Aug 17 with 1787 views | MedwayR |
I prefer 4 at the back but I struggle to see us scoring so I’d go 3-5-2 to get 2 forwards on the pitch. |  |
| |
| 4-2-3-1 on 09:21 - Aug 17 with 1781 views | ParkRoyalR |
| 4-2-3-1 on 09:03 - Aug 17 by nix |
This seems to make a lot of sense. Maybe it's a horses for courses situation, but certainly this formation with these players didn't work against a team, as you say, that's full of running and direct like Blackpool last night. And without Willock in our team to provide extra drive and creativity. Maybe Roberts was a bit tired yesterday because he didn't provide that extra energy that he did against Sunderland.
Maybe being used to work with Premiership players doesn't help with MB because Championship players by definition have more limitations so are going to be less adaptable to certain formations. |
I think you make a good point about having only worked with premiership quality players and not having worked in the Championship and is definitely learning on the job, just hope he is not too dogmatic about 4-3-3 and is prepared to change to get his best 11 players on the pitch in the right formation.
Playing Dozzell on the right of a midfield 3 in front of a right back who has only been at the club a few days and has barely trained with the team is a massively high risk call and one where you could question his judgement. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:12 - Aug 17 with 1718 views | daveB |
completly agree with ParkRoyalR, the 4-3-3 is hindering us, doesn't seem to suit any of our players, He needs to change it quickly either to 4-2-3-1 or to a back 3. |  | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:19 - Aug 17 with 1706 views | Myke |
| 4-2-3-1 on 09:03 - Aug 17 by nix |
This seems to make a lot of sense. Maybe it's a horses for courses situation, but certainly this formation with these players didn't work against a team, as you say, that's full of running and direct like Blackpool last night. And without Willock in our team to provide extra drive and creativity. Maybe Roberts was a bit tired yesterday because he didn't provide that extra energy that he did against Sunderland.
Maybe being used to work with Premiership players doesn't help with MB because Championship players by definition have more limitations so are going to be less adaptable to certain formations. |
'Maybe being used to work with Premiership players doesn't help with MB' As well as the quality of players available , I also think it may affect his use of substitutes. You rarely see a substitution made in the prem before the hour mark, but clearly last night our formation/personnel needed changing after 20/25 minutes, long before they scored. I thought after Stef came off that Dozzell improved significantly and was trying to move us forward for the last 30. Also with 5 subs Beale needs to be more proactive with changes. Fine against Boro when we were flying early on, but v Sunderland and again last night we needed to shake it up much earlier.
Finally,I think Beale is trying to make both Field and Stef play roles they are not comfortable with; Field is not a 'box to box' midfielder and Stef is more effective further forward. When he is asked to 'sit' he is doing so too deeply and impeding the progress of the CB's - particularly Dickie - in coming out with the ball. He should be shielding our defenders when the oppo are attacking, but he even does it when we have the bloody ball! Add in Field's natural reluctance to get forward and that whole area between our 'D' and the half-way line becomes congested. This means when (if) we eventually get further forward the oppo are fully set, which makes it very difficult to break them down. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:24 - Aug 17 with 1694 views | ParkRoyalR |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:12 - Aug 17 by daveB |
completly agree with ParkRoyalR, the 4-3-3 is hindering us, doesn't seem to suit any of our players, He needs to change it quickly either to 4-2-3-1 or to a back 3. |
Paal not being a natural WB seems to be a weakness in a back 3 formation but, when all fit, you have the real benefit of having 2 ball-playing CB's (Dickie + Clarke Salter) either side of a championship growler of a CB (Dunne)
Plus you can compensate Paal's shortcomings in attack by playing Willock in front of him in the 2 and you have the benefit of Field being left sided also and he covers so much ground,
It's all down to who's is fit out of our obvious best XI players and playing the formation to suit them, not shoe-horning them into the Managers preferred formation regardless. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:29 - Aug 17 with 1681 views | StreathamRanger |
Not sure what exactly an effective 4-3-3 is supposed to look like. I'd imagine having three left footers as your 3 midfielders, one of whom seems intent on stopping the CBs running the ball out, is probably not ideal. Nobody seemed to know how to find any space yesterday to the point where most of them just stopped running. A number of times in the second half Dickie or Dozzell carried the ball forwards but there was no options on for them.
I think I was at the game where Warburton changed to a back 3 at half time and we went on to win the game and play with a back 3 pretty much every game after that. Barbet was a liability in a 2 but was brilliant in a 3. I think we really miss his diags as they were often very accurate. Dunne can't do that and Dickie is more effective running with the ball. As soon as JCS is fit I'd like to see him try a back 3. Paal and Laird as wingbacks. Field +1 sitting and Willock + Chair just behind Roberts.
I've given up on Dykes. Lost my shit in the lower loft last night. Don't think I'll make it to many games this year if he keeps getting picked. Don't need the stress. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:34 - Aug 17 with 1659 views | Hunterhoop |
Yes, I came away uncomfortable with our system (again). Every game I’ve seen I think it makes us too narrow in attack and leaves our full backs completely exposed in defence. It just doesn’t seem to be working very well.
Whether that’s players failing to execute what they’re instructed, I don’t know. But they’re struggling with it.
I’d be tempted to go old school 442 against Rotherham. Roberts and Dykes (last chance) up top. Willock and Chair on the wings, Dozzell and Field in the middle. Armstrong off the bench on the hour with Adomah. Play wider. Tell Field and Dozzell to sit.
Johansen doesn’t deserve his spot. And this system gets 4 attacking players into the side whilst giving us width, which will also help our full backs out. And that front two offers pace in behind and someone to (hopefully) flick it on. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| 4-2-3-1 on 10:39 - Aug 17 with 1637 views | 89_50 |
While I agree that 4-2-3-1 could be a solution, it looks like it's been a case of playing with what's available.
Roberts has been getting up to fitness, Willock similar, Amos and Richards are out until October. So that only really leaves a handful of players that can operate in the middle.
I can also understand the idea behind sticking three in the middle (as we do at the moment) to congest the area. The problem that then gives is that unless one of the middle three are really mobile (which they aren't) you lose an attacking presence. |  | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:07 - Aug 17 with 1594 views | ozexile |
If we're not getting width in a 4-3-3 the the players are either being coached incorrectly or simply not listening. 4-3-3 player well will let you use the whole field. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:35 - Aug 17 with 1544 views | ParkRoyalR |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:07 - Aug 17 by ozexile |
If we're not getting width in a 4-3-3 the the players are either being coached incorrectly or simply not listening. 4-3-3 player well will let you use the whole field. |
Or the midfield 3 may just not be athletic enough to cover the ground at the pace needed in the championship.
Its not always just down to coaching or listening, it sometimes down to the raw materials avilable and Dozzell is not a natural runner imo and SJ no longer has the legs to play in a 3 imo. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:54 - Aug 17 with 1521 views | WestbourneR |
I fear Beale may be one of British footballs new pseudo tactical intellectuals.
Any one who thinks Field box to box and Johansen deep lying defensive midfielder doesn’t have a clue. Field doesn’t have the feet to be in and around the box and Johansen lacks the physicality to protect the back four.
It’s been a disastrous ‘tweak’ that’s totally unsettled the midfield.
Time to bring back the back 3 always I’d say. Be good for the three CBS and good to cover the light weight defensive properties or Paal and Laird.
Team looks more athletic and rapid but powder puff. I’m personally missing Wallace and Odebajo myself. |  |
| |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:55 - Aug 17 with 1520 views | ozexile |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:35 - Aug 17 by ParkRoyalR |
Or the midfield 3 may just not be athletic enough to cover the ground at the pace needed in the championship.
Its not always just down to coaching or listening, it sometimes down to the raw materials avilable and Dozzell is not a natural runner imo and SJ no longer has the legs to play in a 3 imo. |
You make a very good point. In an ideal midfield 3 you have a number 6 who's basically a DM.
A number 8 who's an up and downer and a number 10 who links the whole thing between midfield and wide players.
Our problem is we're using 3 x number 6's. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 12:03 - Aug 17 with 1509 views | ParkRoyalR |
| 4-2-3-1 on 11:55 - Aug 17 by ozexile |
You make a very good point. In an ideal midfield 3 you have a number 6 who's basically a DM.
A number 8 who's an up and downer and a number 10 who links the whole thing between midfield and wide players.
Our problem is we're using 3 x number 6's. |
Yes, and Field's an ideal 6, Amos the 8, and either Richards or Chair the 10. | | | |
| 4-2-3-1 on 12:21 - Aug 17 with 1485 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
The goal last night and the 2 against Sunderland came from mistakes down the centre of the team. We look so weak in the centre that a switch to 3 at the back will probably happen. Field needs to move to holding role a Johansen isnt strong enough. | |
| |
| 4-2-3-1 on 12:31 - Aug 17 with 1460 views | nix |
| 4-2-3-1 on 12:21 - Aug 17 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
The goal last night and the 2 against Sunderland came from mistakes down the centre of the team. We look so weak in the centre that a switch to 3 at the back will probably happen. Field needs to move to holding role a Johansen isnt strong enough. |
And Field tried to push forward a bit last night because Dozzell and Johansen weren't but as stated, although he's got talent, quick feet and shooting are not where his strengths lie. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
