| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale 17:00 - Aug 13 with 34307 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:24 - Aug 15 with 4037 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 22:34 - Aug 15 by beat_the_bishop |
I can only hope you are right in terms of some air cleared and a response on Saturday.
Lots of people calling for a formation change and reverting back to what we know but if Ian Watson does that…then he might aswell pack up and go. He looks weak and not a leader if he does. Or he sticks to his plan, it will come good or it will fail.
The only thing we have is time to see how it unfolds. And of course, support him and the team as much as we can. |
He wouldn’t look weak. He’s be acknowledging a problem and doing his best to find a solution.
Moss, EEL, Wilson as a back three.
TAR and Hannant as wing backs.
Adeeko and two of East/Gilmour/Francis in midfield
Dieseruvwe and one other up front.
If he really wants to stick to the ‘play with wingers’ stay with the midfield two and have a wide player either side of the centre forward. But play three at the back with wingbacks and see if it makes us look more comfortable in our own third.
My biggest worry was the body language and how we looked short of bite and a commitment to win battles, that’s on individuals. What can be controlled aside from that is giving the man on the ball more options.
Having another central defender nearer to pass to, a ball into a forward player who isn’t miles away from the players employed wide or in midfield. It can start to be addressed by finding a structure that makes better use of what we have.
As it is, all the opposition have to is mark our wingers. That ensures there’s no pass on as that is our designated threat. It’s predictable and puts unnecessary pressure on when we have the ball. [Post edited 15 Aug 23:39]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:43 - Aug 15 with 3970 views | 49thseason |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:12 - Aug 15 by beat_the_bishop |
He should not be here. It’s really that simple. Let alone in the starting 11. What standard/example does it set for those on the outskirts of the 11? If you can drift through a game with little to no involvement, fail to simply control a ball and pass it at the right weight it’s okay because 15 games ago you had a good game. It’s wrong. He needs loaning out until January to prove he can still perform or want to. |
Not sure anyone else can get a tune out of him either... from the little I have seen so far this season, given that at least 60% of the probable first 11 is injured...those in the side seem incapable of winning and retaining the ball, little is coming from the wings that will excite Dieseruwve, much less Rodney.
We need a midfield destroyer, a Lund or a Jones type. Probably Brown will completely replace Rodney once we get a few players back, maybe the 2 new lads from Wigan will sort out the midfield and the delivery into the penalty area whenmthey are both available ... Maguire is the hope at the back, we need a vocal organiser, EEL isnt at the races so far, and has never been vocal enough .. The keeper will be OK, I think, once they get organised but too many went missing when the ball was punted into our penalty area, and we are going to be on the wrong end of plenty of that....
Lots to do but its been a poor start and I worry that we dont have enough warriors...next Saturday has to be better.....we will see if the Manager's apparent disappointment will be turned into affirmative action on the pitch. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:47 - Aug 15 with 3932 views | 442Dale |
Not listened to the club interview yet, but Watson’s comments on the radio were fair enough:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/p | |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 00:37 - Aug 16 with 3821 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:22 - Aug 15 by TalkingSutty |
The Chairman interviewed him and gave him the job because he played a similar style to McNulty and they wanted continuity. Watsons first interview seemed to contradict that though, he mentioned a style that nobody else will be playing, klopp style, wingers, high energy and a lot of running, he prefers a back four in defence. None of that sounds similar to how we played under McNulty and we know the players are taking weeks and weeks to adapt to Watson's ways.
It seems obvious that Watson has inherited a squad that simply isn't designed to play the way that he wants and win games. It's a squad that McNulty built and moulded to suit his style of play. If you go through the retained players you can pick out individuals who simply dont have the engine, mobility or physical attributes to play a high octane, pressing game but Watson is stuck with players on contracts. So he has a conundrum to solve and there only looks like two choices open to him. He either keeps persisting and hopes the players will adapt ( i don't think some of them can and some might not want to do), or he rethinks his tactics to suit his squad of players and picks up enough points to keep us up. Then he recruits again over the Summer and reverts back to plan A.
Look at the injured players and their particular injuries, are they capable of returning to the team and playing the type of football Watson requires without sustaining further injury? Smith and Beckwith have recently had very serious injuries and Maguire has been nowhere to be seen, Hayes and Petit will need managing after bad injuries also. I think he's going to have to sit down with senior players and rethink what he's doing, otherwise this might not have a good ending. [Post edited 15 Aug 23:34]
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Agree with this. There does seem to be a mismatch between Watson's stated preferred style of play and what's been said by our Chairmen
We also need a new leader on the pitch, Watson's own man. EEL suited JM's style of management and it'd be a blow to him to have the club captaincy taken away but first of all, he's struggling with pace and also nowhere near vocal enough to push the team when things aren't going our way
It also appears (but gives me no pleasure in saying so) that the tide of opinion has turned on Rodney. He's an absolute passenger when we need every single man to be pulling their tripe out to help turn things around |  |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 01:06 - Aug 16 with 3781 views | rich_dale |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:24 - Aug 15 by 442Dale |
He wouldn’t look weak. He’s be acknowledging a problem and doing his best to find a solution.
Moss, EEL, Wilson as a back three.
TAR and Hannant as wing backs.
Adeeko and two of East/Gilmour/Francis in midfield
Dieseruvwe and one other up front.
If he really wants to stick to the ‘play with wingers’ stay with the midfield two and have a wide player either side of the centre forward. But play three at the back with wingbacks and see if it makes us look more comfortable in our own third.
My biggest worry was the body language and how we looked short of bite and a commitment to win battles, that’s on individuals. What can be controlled aside from that is giving the man on the ball more options.
Having another central defender nearer to pass to, a ball into a forward player who isn’t miles away from the players employed wide or in midfield. It can start to be addressed by finding a structure that makes better use of what we have.
As it is, all the opposition have to is mark our wingers. That ensures there’s no pass on as that is our designated threat. It’s predictable and puts unnecessary pressure on when we have the ball. [Post edited 15 Aug 23:39]
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Will be interesting to see if IW changes it - I think this type of setup, either a 352 or 343, would suit the players we have much better than today's formation, and could be seen as a way to recapture and continue the control and belief we had last season. Using 3 CBs with wingbacks makes it easier to play out from the back, and also to defend, particularly when there's no pace in the middle. You could understand it if we were adopting a more direct style but it's basically a continuation of the same philosophy although with a system that makes it harder to implement.
We've landed in game 1 with zero/backwards momentum from last season which can't all be blamed on a higher league and a few players leaving or being injured - the tactical approach has looked dodgy all pre-season and you wonder whether the players are buying into it. York, with all that's happened in the last 3 weeks or so and a more recent new manager hit the ground running today and beat promotion favourites while we were comfortably beaten by relegation favourites. Remember Robbie Savage saying last season that it was tough playing us as we were 2-3 years into a project with a system that worked and a team that gelled. Hopefully it's too early to say that's been undone but the signs aren't good - minimum 2 goals conceded every game in the last month culminating in schoolboy defending and no shots on target today. | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 06:57 - Aug 16 with 3526 views | Bazzanne |
If Ian Watson reads this forum, I'd like to say to him that 4 back line players constantly passing the ball between themselves and the goal keeper is not entertaining. After all we watch the game to be entertained. That as nothing to do with injuries, and everything to do with playing style. It needs changing and rapidly. I don't think either centre backs are good enough. Nor is playing two full backs out of position a good move. A big rethink is needed before Saturday. | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 07:00 - Aug 16 with 3520 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:47 - Aug 15 by 442Dale |
Not listened to the club interview yet, but Watson’s comments on the radio were fair enough:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/p |
Makes a difference when the right question's are being asked, too
Huge week ahead for Watson. In a sense, his Dale career starts here | |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:11 - Aug 16 with 3348 views | NorthernDale |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 06:57 - Aug 16 by Bazzanne |
If Ian Watson reads this forum, I'd like to say to him that 4 back line players constantly passing the ball between themselves and the goal keeper is not entertaining. After all we watch the game to be entertained. That as nothing to do with injuries, and everything to do with playing style. It needs changing and rapidly. I don't think either centre backs are good enough. Nor is playing two full backs out of position a good move. A big rethink is needed before Saturday. |
Totally agree and what made it worse, they dithered on the ball, and unlike the NL, where you could get away with it, in the EFL the players are faster and as I said on a previous post, our players were 'mugged' and lost the ball constantly. I watched the Clubs highlights youtube video and the first two goals look worse, then at the match, when you rewind and watch time and time again.
Will Ian Watson learn? He rightly stated the performance was unacceptable, but the question should be, 'can he changed tactics and formation'? Because after previous games he said we need to cut out the mistakes and learn from the errors, yet we clearly have not. So I have my doubts and he seems to be learning on the job, which is a worrying factor.
I would agree a 3-5-2 formation may help, in that our midfield was overrun yesterday. | | | |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:12 - Aug 16 with 3338 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 23:24 - Aug 15 by 442Dale |
He wouldn’t look weak. He’s be acknowledging a problem and doing his best to find a solution.
Moss, EEL, Wilson as a back three.
TAR and Hannant as wing backs.
Adeeko and two of East/Gilmour/Francis in midfield
Dieseruvwe and one other up front.
If he really wants to stick to the ‘play with wingers’ stay with the midfield two and have a wide player either side of the centre forward. But play three at the back with wingbacks and see if it makes us look more comfortable in our own third.
My biggest worry was the body language and how we looked short of bite and a commitment to win battles, that’s on individuals. What can be controlled aside from that is giving the man on the ball more options.
Having another central defender nearer to pass to, a ball into a forward player who isn’t miles away from the players employed wide or in midfield. It can start to be addressed by finding a structure that makes better use of what we have.
As it is, all the opposition have to is mark our wingers. That ensures there’s no pass on as that is our designated threat. It’s predictable and puts unnecessary pressure on when we have the ball. [Post edited 15 Aug 23:39]
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That's it in a nutshell, we saw it in the Bradford game. All the opposition have to do is push up tight on our wide players and our game falls to pieces, there's nowhere for the wingers to go apart from control the ball facing their own goal and funnel the ball back, invariably they are so tightly marked they fail to control the ball.
There's big improvement needed and very quickly otherwise that succesion planning that the chairman talked about is going to be needed again. They took a gamble by appointing a rooky manager at this level, at a time when we needed to recruit tried and tested players. To compound matters the manager has made the transition even more difficult by trying to implement a style of play that the players don't appear to be able to get to grips with.
Football is full of modern day coaches who think they have invented a different way of playing the game to everybody else, i think that's what we are seeing now with Ian Watson and it's clearly not working. Complicating a very simple game. [Post edited 16 Aug 8:43]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:26 - Aug 16 with 3256 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:11 - Aug 16 by NorthernDale |
Totally agree and what made it worse, they dithered on the ball, and unlike the NL, where you could get away with it, in the EFL the players are faster and as I said on a previous post, our players were 'mugged' and lost the ball constantly. I watched the Clubs highlights youtube video and the first two goals look worse, then at the match, when you rewind and watch time and time again.
Will Ian Watson learn? He rightly stated the performance was unacceptable, but the question should be, 'can he changed tactics and formation'? Because after previous games he said we need to cut out the mistakes and learn from the errors, yet we clearly have not. So I have my doubts and he seems to be learning on the job, which is a worrying factor.
I would agree a 3-5-2 formation may help, in that our midfield was overrun yesterday. |
Whilst agreeing that we spend too much time on the ball at the back before releasing it, that’s a structural issue (see above), not because we’re in the EFL.
The front three players for Newport who were pressuring our defenders on the ball were all playing in non-league last year. Doidge and Bamba didn’t feature much at Forest Green, whilst Gwengwe was at Poole Town in the Southern League Premier Division South. | |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:38 - Aug 16 with 3224 views | Cedar_Room |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 22:34 - Aug 15 by beat_the_bishop |
I can only hope you are right in terms of some air cleared and a response on Saturday.
Lots of people calling for a formation change and reverting back to what we know but if Ian Watson does that…then he might aswell pack up and go. He looks weak and not a leader if he does. Or he sticks to his plan, it will come good or it will fail.
The only thing we have is time to see how it unfolds. And of course, support him and the team as much as we can. |
I think it’s the opposite - a weak manager sticks rigidly with a system even when it’s not working because they don’t have any other ideas (hello BBM). The best managers find a way to win. Next week will therefore be a big test for Watson - does he stick with a system that has spectacularly failed in the first game (and in pre season) or does he adapt and try something different. He may think it’s too early in the season to throw it all in the air and try again but I would argue the performance yesterday warrants exactly that. Managers need a plan B and a plan C. There will always be injuries, players running out of form/confidence. Managers have to be able to adapt as the priority is winning games, however it’s done and whatever formation is deployed. I would have a huge amount of respect if Watson showed the pragmatism, flexibility and humility to make some serious changes next week. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:52 - Aug 16 with 3132 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:38 - Aug 16 by Cedar_Room |
I think it’s the opposite - a weak manager sticks rigidly with a system even when it’s not working because they don’t have any other ideas (hello BBM). The best managers find a way to win. Next week will therefore be a big test for Watson - does he stick with a system that has spectacularly failed in the first game (and in pre season) or does he adapt and try something different. He may think it’s too early in the season to throw it all in the air and try again but I would argue the performance yesterday warrants exactly that. Managers need a plan B and a plan C. There will always be injuries, players running out of form/confidence. Managers have to be able to adapt as the priority is winning games, however it’s done and whatever formation is deployed. I would have a huge amount of respect if Watson showed the pragmatism, flexibility and humility to make some serious changes next week. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. |
Agree with all of that. It's also about having the players who are suited to play a particular system . Somebody mentioned putting square pegs into round holes, i think that's what Watsons been trying to do and it doesn't work. I don't think the return of the injured players can make it work neither. He does now have a good squad of players though, work as a team on the training ground and thrash out a style of play that the players will buy into. [Post edited 16 Aug 9:19]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:19 - Aug 16 with 2979 views | beat_the_bishop |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 08:38 - Aug 16 by Cedar_Room |
I think it’s the opposite - a weak manager sticks rigidly with a system even when it’s not working because they don’t have any other ideas (hello BBM). The best managers find a way to win. Next week will therefore be a big test for Watson - does he stick with a system that has spectacularly failed in the first game (and in pre season) or does he adapt and try something different. He may think it’s too early in the season to throw it all in the air and try again but I would argue the performance yesterday warrants exactly that. Managers need a plan B and a plan C. There will always be injuries, players running out of form/confidence. Managers have to be able to adapt as the priority is winning games, however it’s done and whatever formation is deployed. I would have a huge amount of respect if Watson showed the pragmatism, flexibility and humility to make some serious changes next week. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. |
I absolutely agree. I’m not saying I agree he should stick to it, my gut feels tells me he will. A lot of these coaches and young managers these days are so brainwashed by their own philosophies that the result is secondary. Meanwhile, as fans… I think I plus the other 3,000 would have took a 1-0 win yesterday with a header from a corner and a crap game but full of fight and grit. Performances and style can follow it’s about putting a marker down early and not letting it become a psychological issue which if we don’t get a result over Crawley already pressure will be through the roof.
As you note, the best in the business set up various way and make tactical changes in games and be brave. The thing I disliked the most yesterday was he didn’t change a thing. Changing personal (too late) is just too NVQ Level 1 for me. It was glaringly obvious it was all wrong from very early on yet the pain continued right to the end.
Hopefully he isn’t stubborn. I am sure the analysis will be easy if nothing else. |  | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:43 - Aug 16 with 2845 views | dawlishdale |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 19:12 - Aug 15 by EllDale |
Perhaps today was the massive wake-up call that was needed.
On a par with the 3-0 loss to Leyton Orient in 1969.
The most glaring thing to my mind is that Gordon, such a component for the last couple of years, hasn’t been replaced adequately unless Wilson is going to be the solution here.
If not, give Moss a go there instead of Tobi who has spent the last few seasons shuttling up and down as a wingback. Or instead of Edwards who seems to have taken the p1ss over the close season.
Gordon was two players in one given his attacking and creative ability as well as his defensive proficiency, curling those channel balls down the line. East in particular seems to miss him.
OK I get that injuries haven’t helped. Jenkins was signed to do a job at number 10 and there doesn’t seem to be an obvious replacement.
Beckwith and Pettit are other huge losses but we don’t really know where they were visualised as fitting into the grand scheme of things.
Poor old Rodney is getting a lot of stick but he hasn’t consistently performed to his full potential since the second half of the season before last. Where do you play to maximise his talent?
And we’re always going to be vulnerable to crosses when we have wingbacks playing at fullback and so many forward thinking players.
There’s a lot for messrs Watson and Magnay to ponder tonight on the ride back up the A1. There’s no need to press the panic button immediately but we can’t have a repetition of today next week. [Post edited 15 Aug 19:14]
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Blimey.. that 0-3 defeat to Orient was my first league game at Spotland, which makes it 57 years I've been supporting us rather than the 55 I thought.
I still think that yesterday was the worst , most disappointing and soul destroying overall team performance that I have seen from the club on an opening day. All the other defeats (and there have been quite a few) have offered some hope...a few good efforts or good saves etc. Yesterday offered absolutely nothing from us. Much work to be done on and off the pitch. | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:47 - Aug 16 with 2829 views | NorthernDale |
I would agree that squad on paper is good and if we can get Smith and Hendo back next week, with possibly Beckwith and Maguire, and if you look at the latest addition of Adeeko. Then we have options, but look at yesterday, we had a natural fullback on the bench in Moss, but played TAR at fullback, as TalkingSutty says it is trying to put square pegs in round holes. It is the same with Rodney, who seemed to operate on the wing, when he is not suited for that role.
Bazzanne raises an interesting point, I think EEL is a good defender, but is not the fastest anymore and I am unsure about Sherring, so if Maguire is fit do you give him or Wilson a start? I would go further, we have wingers, but yesterday how many times did they take on the fullbacks and whip a cross into the box, it was more of seeking to walk it into the box.
Cedar Room also raises a good point, a manager needs a Plan B or C, but is Ian blinkered in having a plan A and will continue with Plan A, no matter the performances and results. That raises the question, which is if he cannot change, what will the chairman do? | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:49 - Aug 16 with 2811 views | Duckegg |
Watson must consider loaning out EEL and Rodney they are just not good enough even in the NL the last couple of seasons showed that.
Playing TAR as a RB is also a wrong tactic aswell..
I also dont think that dessie up front is an EFL player it is a step to far..
Problem is the injury situation which should not be an excuse, Watson has now to prove his clout as the manager and reorganise things on the field.... |  | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:52 - Aug 16 with 2789 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:19 - Aug 16 by beat_the_bishop |
I absolutely agree. I’m not saying I agree he should stick to it, my gut feels tells me he will. A lot of these coaches and young managers these days are so brainwashed by their own philosophies that the result is secondary. Meanwhile, as fans… I think I plus the other 3,000 would have took a 1-0 win yesterday with a header from a corner and a crap game but full of fight and grit. Performances and style can follow it’s about putting a marker down early and not letting it become a psychological issue which if we don’t get a result over Crawley already pressure will be through the roof.
As you note, the best in the business set up various way and make tactical changes in games and be brave. The thing I disliked the most yesterday was he didn’t change a thing. Changing personal (too late) is just too NVQ Level 1 for me. It was glaringly obvious it was all wrong from very early on yet the pain continued right to the end.
Hopefully he isn’t stubborn. I am sure the analysis will be easy if nothing else. |
If he doesn't change tact and performance and results don't improve then the bravery will need to come from the chairman who appointed Watson in the first place. Hold their hand up and accept they made the wrong call and get somebody in who knows their way around this league and how to get results. Don't let things fester and the position become irretreavable. The ideal scenario is everything starts to click next Saturday, but after a full pre-season, two Carabao Cups and a league game it feels like we are already grasping at straws. I was worried after watching my first pre-season friendly, Halifax at home. They outplayed us in every aspect of the game, we were like headless chickens against lower league opponents. [Post edited 16 Aug 10:02]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:56 - Aug 16 with 2757 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:47 - Aug 16 by NorthernDale |
I would agree that squad on paper is good and if we can get Smith and Hendo back next week, with possibly Beckwith and Maguire, and if you look at the latest addition of Adeeko. Then we have options, but look at yesterday, we had a natural fullback on the bench in Moss, but played TAR at fullback, as TalkingSutty says it is trying to put square pegs in round holes. It is the same with Rodney, who seemed to operate on the wing, when he is not suited for that role.
Bazzanne raises an interesting point, I think EEL is a good defender, but is not the fastest anymore and I am unsure about Sherring, so if Maguire is fit do you give him or Wilson a start? I would go further, we have wingers, but yesterday how many times did they take on the fullbacks and whip a cross into the box, it was more of seeking to walk it into the box.
Cedar Room also raises a good point, a manager needs a Plan B or C, but is Ian blinkered in having a plan A and will continue with Plan A, no matter the performances and results. That raises the question, which is if he cannot change, what will the chairman do? |
Watson was interviewed post match yesterday by BBC Radio Bolton about our injury situation and he said he doesn't expect any other players to be available for selection next Saturday. [Post edited 16 Aug 10:04]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 10:07 - Aug 16 with 2699 views | jonahwhereru |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 17:34 - Aug 15 by D_Alien |
That's probably unfair on Watson, and your previous experience with a manager using that line isn't relevant
Also, we beat Tranmere, on penalties i.e. the same result we achieved at Wembley, and don't recall anyone not calling that "a win"
Looks like we've gone backwards from that game; however, both Hayes and Pettit played and aren't now available, leaving us looking unbalanced, short of experience and playing a forward line with little service and at least one player who doesn't fit into any position the manager can conjure for him
These aren't excuses particularly for lack of fight today (we fought back at Tranmere) but the right to the benefit of the doubt is a long way from being conceded by our new manager [Post edited 15 Aug 17:35]
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Having now listened to the BBC interview yes what I said was unfair on Watson.
Needing to do a reset after the first league game of the season is far from idle. A period of calm after the chaos of the closed season is imperative now. A couple of wins will do that.
One clear sign from yesterday for me is that we need more quality in the squad. This reality check has happened early enough in the season for us to remedy the quality before the transfer window closes.
UTD | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 10:15 - Aug 16 with 2657 views | Beechball |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 10:07 - Aug 16 by jonahwhereru |
Having now listened to the BBC interview yes what I said was unfair on Watson.
Needing to do a reset after the first league game of the season is far from idle. A period of calm after the chaos of the closed season is imperative now. A couple of wins will do that.
One clear sign from yesterday for me is that we need more quality in the squad. This reality check has happened early enough in the season for us to remedy the quality before the transfer window closes.
UTD |
Yes but we will need to shunt players out to keep within the squad limit and might have to sub their wages to do that. | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 10:28 - Aug 16 with 2572 views | fitzochris |
After the Bradford game, I was left thinking there were some things Watson needed to work on, but that there were enough mitigating circumstances to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm less inclined to do that after Newport.
The obvious difference is that Bradford are a League One side who pressed us very well. Newport aren't. We should be expecting to compete with Newport, particularly given they are tipped to struggle this season. We barely laid a glove on them.
The possession stat is almost misleading. Watching the game, I was surprised when I saw it afterwards because all I recall, especially in the first half, was us giving the ball away time and time again, either by being weak in the challenge or misplacing basic passes.
Very little of what we did was actually hurting Newport. The possession stat may have been boosted by the fact we spent far too much time passing it between the goalkeeper and the centre-backs, then into midfield and back again, without really getting through them.
That's something I mentioned after Bradford and I thought it was even more obvious here.
If you're going to play with a back four and two in midfield, those two midfielders have to be available all the time. They need to be close enough to the defence to receive the ball but then be able to turn and get us up the pitch. Too often at Newport they were either marked, too far away or easily pressed and overrun, so the defenders didn't really have a good forward option.
That then has a knock-on effect. The ball goes has to go wide, but there's often nobody close enough to combine with the winger and that winger is closely marked. We end up asking them to beat their man, which they can’t, or play it backwards, and the whole thing starts again, if they haven’t already lost possession.
And when we did eventually get into their half, there wasn't enough happening in front of the ball.
I'm not blaming the forwards for that. If the ball isn't getting into useful areas, there's only so much they can do. But having to play Rodney out wide and Brown as a No.10 also highlights some of the limitations we currently have in that area. Neither is really playing in what you'd imagine to be their natural or best position, and it means we're trying to make the pieces fit rather than necessarily getting the best out of them. Jenkins being unavailable is particularly significant in that regard. He was clearly brought in to give us something between midfield and attack, and without him we're asking other players to fill roles that don't necessarily suit them.
The defensive side worries me more. EEL and Sherring don't look particularly comfortable defending large spaces, and the current set-up seems to leave quite a lot of ground for them to cover. The goals weren't all down to the formation, obviously. There were individual mistakes in there for the Newport goals that simply shouldn't happen, but the system doesn't seem to be giving us much protection either. Ramming had a difficult afternoon and there are obvious questions about his decision-making, particularly coming off his line.
This is where I keep coming back to the back three. I'm not saying we have to go back to it because that's what worked under McNulty, but I do think the squad looks better suited to it at the moment.
With three centre-backs you've got that extra player in the first line of the build-up and, assuming the wing-backs are doing their job, you've got your width without asking the midfield to spread itself too thinly.
It also potentially gives you another body in midfield. That might be more important than anything else at the moment because we don't seem to be getting enough out of the middle of the pitch. East and Gilmour are both perfectly capable footballers, but asking two players to control that area when the opposition can simply get tight to them isn't easy.
Maybe that's something that improves with time. Maybe the answer is different personnel. Or maybe Watson decides that the answer is simply to use a different shape. I'm not particularly bothered which it is, to be honest.
I said after Bradford that I'd be quite happy for Watson to change the system if he decides the squad is better suited to a back three. I still feel the same way.
There is still the injury situation to take into account, too. Jenkins being out is a big problem as said, but Pettit's injury is awful timing as I think the bite that was missing yesterday is something he would have provided. Hayes is another one missing on a longer-term basis. Then there are the players who have been unavailable that we have no information on at all.
At some point you simply run out of like-for-like replacements.
I do think there is a question to be asked about the recruitment as well, though. The calibre of some of the players we've brought in looks promising and I don't think anyone can accuse the club of simply signing bodies for the sake of it. But quite a few of them seem to come with less than ideal injury records, and we're already seeing the consequences of that.
And, given how wedded Watson appeared to be to playing with a back four when he arrived, I'm also surprised that we haven't signed a quality full-back. You'd have thought that would have been one of the more obvious priorities if that was going to be the system we're building around.
It might be that there are still players to come in, of course, and I'm not writing off the recruitment based on a few weeks. But if you're going to commit to a particular way of playing, you need the personnel to make it work.
But, equally, injuries and recruitment don't explain the lack of intensity at Newport. That was the part I found hardest to accept.
Newport looked like they wanted the game more than we did, particularly once they got ahead. There wasn't much sign of us changing the momentum. That's something Watson needs to address quickly.
One thing I don't want to do is write off the manager after one league game. But having time doesn't mean doing exactly the same thing every week and hoping it eventually clicks. We've seen that in the past. He has to look at what he's got and adapt it.
The Watson team we were promised might still be in there somewhere, but at the moment we're not really seeing it. I'd like to see some evidence that he's prepared to sort it out rather than simply persevere with what he came in intending to do.
At the moment, I'm not particularly bothered what exact formation we use. I'd just like us to adapt and look like we know how to get from one end of the pitch to the other. [Post edited 16 Aug 10:31]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 11:02 - Aug 16 with 2443 views | D_Alien |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 09:43 - Aug 16 by dawlishdale |
Blimey.. that 0-3 defeat to Orient was my first league game at Spotland, which makes it 57 years I've been supporting us rather than the 55 I thought.
I still think that yesterday was the worst , most disappointing and soul destroying overall team performance that I have seen from the club on an opening day. All the other defeats (and there have been quite a few) have offered some hope...a few good efforts or good saves etc. Yesterday offered absolutely nothing from us. Much work to be done on and off the pitch. |
That Orient defeat was a real.eye opener, but not a wake up call
We didn't play badly, they simply ran rings round us and ended up promoted
It's the wrong example (i know you didn't pick it) and we went on a winning streak shortly afterwards with virtually the same team that got us promoted, under the same manager | |
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 11:18 - Aug 16 with 2360 views | TalkingSutty |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 10:28 - Aug 16 by fitzochris |
After the Bradford game, I was left thinking there were some things Watson needed to work on, but that there were enough mitigating circumstances to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm less inclined to do that after Newport.
The obvious difference is that Bradford are a League One side who pressed us very well. Newport aren't. We should be expecting to compete with Newport, particularly given they are tipped to struggle this season. We barely laid a glove on them.
The possession stat is almost misleading. Watching the game, I was surprised when I saw it afterwards because all I recall, especially in the first half, was us giving the ball away time and time again, either by being weak in the challenge or misplacing basic passes.
Very little of what we did was actually hurting Newport. The possession stat may have been boosted by the fact we spent far too much time passing it between the goalkeeper and the centre-backs, then into midfield and back again, without really getting through them.
That's something I mentioned after Bradford and I thought it was even more obvious here.
If you're going to play with a back four and two in midfield, those two midfielders have to be available all the time. They need to be close enough to the defence to receive the ball but then be able to turn and get us up the pitch. Too often at Newport they were either marked, too far away or easily pressed and overrun, so the defenders didn't really have a good forward option.
That then has a knock-on effect. The ball goes has to go wide, but there's often nobody close enough to combine with the winger and that winger is closely marked. We end up asking them to beat their man, which they can’t, or play it backwards, and the whole thing starts again, if they haven’t already lost possession.
And when we did eventually get into their half, there wasn't enough happening in front of the ball.
I'm not blaming the forwards for that. If the ball isn't getting into useful areas, there's only so much they can do. But having to play Rodney out wide and Brown as a No.10 also highlights some of the limitations we currently have in that area. Neither is really playing in what you'd imagine to be their natural or best position, and it means we're trying to make the pieces fit rather than necessarily getting the best out of them. Jenkins being unavailable is particularly significant in that regard. He was clearly brought in to give us something between midfield and attack, and without him we're asking other players to fill roles that don't necessarily suit them.
The defensive side worries me more. EEL and Sherring don't look particularly comfortable defending large spaces, and the current set-up seems to leave quite a lot of ground for them to cover. The goals weren't all down to the formation, obviously. There were individual mistakes in there for the Newport goals that simply shouldn't happen, but the system doesn't seem to be giving us much protection either. Ramming had a difficult afternoon and there are obvious questions about his decision-making, particularly coming off his line.
This is where I keep coming back to the back three. I'm not saying we have to go back to it because that's what worked under McNulty, but I do think the squad looks better suited to it at the moment.
With three centre-backs you've got that extra player in the first line of the build-up and, assuming the wing-backs are doing their job, you've got your width without asking the midfield to spread itself too thinly.
It also potentially gives you another body in midfield. That might be more important than anything else at the moment because we don't seem to be getting enough out of the middle of the pitch. East and Gilmour are both perfectly capable footballers, but asking two players to control that area when the opposition can simply get tight to them isn't easy.
Maybe that's something that improves with time. Maybe the answer is different personnel. Or maybe Watson decides that the answer is simply to use a different shape. I'm not particularly bothered which it is, to be honest.
I said after Bradford that I'd be quite happy for Watson to change the system if he decides the squad is better suited to a back three. I still feel the same way.
There is still the injury situation to take into account, too. Jenkins being out is a big problem as said, but Pettit's injury is awful timing as I think the bite that was missing yesterday is something he would have provided. Hayes is another one missing on a longer-term basis. Then there are the players who have been unavailable that we have no information on at all.
At some point you simply run out of like-for-like replacements.
I do think there is a question to be asked about the recruitment as well, though. The calibre of some of the players we've brought in looks promising and I don't think anyone can accuse the club of simply signing bodies for the sake of it. But quite a few of them seem to come with less than ideal injury records, and we're already seeing the consequences of that.
And, given how wedded Watson appeared to be to playing with a back four when he arrived, I'm also surprised that we haven't signed a quality full-back. You'd have thought that would have been one of the more obvious priorities if that was going to be the system we're building around.
It might be that there are still players to come in, of course, and I'm not writing off the recruitment based on a few weeks. But if you're going to commit to a particular way of playing, you need the personnel to make it work.
But, equally, injuries and recruitment don't explain the lack of intensity at Newport. That was the part I found hardest to accept.
Newport looked like they wanted the game more than we did, particularly once they got ahead. There wasn't much sign of us changing the momentum. That's something Watson needs to address quickly.
One thing I don't want to do is write off the manager after one league game. But having time doesn't mean doing exactly the same thing every week and hoping it eventually clicks. We've seen that in the past. He has to look at what he's got and adapt it.
The Watson team we were promised might still be in there somewhere, but at the moment we're not really seeing it. I'd like to see some evidence that he's prepared to sort it out rather than simply persevere with what he came in intending to do.
At the moment, I'm not particularly bothered what exact formation we use. I'd just like us to adapt and look like we know how to get from one end of the pitch to the other. [Post edited 16 Aug 10:31]
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I take it right back to the begining when McNulty, Taylor and Done jumped ship to Stockport. Straight away the club has been stripped of football experience. At that point commonsense should tell you that we're now playing at a higher level and preserving our status is the number one priority..we'll look to replace that lost experience so we are battle ready for the new season, ready to go. Instead the Chairman do the opposite and appoint a rooky manager and his assistant from two levels below. A absolute gamble after years of trying to get out of the National League. Planning too far ahead. The fans have no option but to rally behind the new manager, it's what we do, we are desperate to succeed. If things don't work out with Watson then Cameron and Simon have to shoulder their fare share of the blame and be brave enough to take the appropriate action sooner rather than later.
There's been a lot of naivety on display over the Summer and it's not just come from Watson and the players. If ever a experienced manager was needed it was when McNulty walked out and that's not hindsight. No lessons learned from Stockdales appointment, another really nice fella who came across very well. I also think there's been a under estimation of how tough this league is in comparison to the National League and a over estimation in the abilty of the retained players to perform at this level. A lot of the players have been here before and struggled, so yesterdays performance shouldn't be a complete shock. Not nice to talk about these things but Watson's now been at the club long enough to at least give us some cause for optimism, we're seeing the opposite and constantly look like conceding soft goals. [Post edited 16 Aug 12:49]
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| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 11:34 - Aug 16 with 2280 views | mingthemerciless |
I was there against Orient. They were a top class side with several players who either had or would later play at the top level. They actually won the division that season. No disgrace there at all. Just outplayed by a really good side. Newport aren’t anything like that. However the Dale ended the season in 8 th position. | | | |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 13:21 - Aug 16 with 1911 views | pioneer |
| Refwatch - Newport County v Rochdale on 11:34 - Aug 16 by mingthemerciless |
I was there against Orient. They were a top class side with several players who either had or would later play at the top level. They actually won the division that season. No disgrace there at all. Just outplayed by a really good side. Newport aren’t anything like that. However the Dale ended the season in 8 th position. |
Yes, Denis Rofe who later played for Chelsea and Tommy Taylor who had many years at the hammers.
It was a tough introduction to tier 3 football but we adapted quickly and reached top of the division by November. | | | |
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