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Club accounts to show significant loss on 20:41 - Sep 1 by londonlisa2001
You'd capitalise as much of it as possible unless you were actively seeking to make a loss.
And even then, the auditors shouldn't allow you to expense an asset that you will have use over for several years.
And the lease at Fairwood makes no difference to the way you're allowed to treat expenditure - it's over a long period.
I'll bet it's all to do with timing on contracts and sales, all of which happened around the year end. In other words, it'll be an accounting thing with no impact on what was available this window.
I can't remember how we account for players, but if there's a carrying value, then we sure as shit have some impaired assets out on loan.
Club accounts to show significant loss on 20:41 - Sep 1 by londonlisa2001
You'd capitalise as much of it as possible unless you were actively seeking to make a loss.
And even then, the auditors shouldn't allow you to expense an asset that you will have use over for several years.
And the lease at Fairwood makes no difference to the way you're allowed to treat expenditure - it's over a long period.
I'll bet it's all to do with timing on contracts and sales, all of which happened around the year end. In other words, it'll be an accounting thing with no impact on what was available this window.
Useful for PR purposes following a botched transfer window though ! I was expecting a statement talking about stadium expansion to deflect attention but that would have raised expectations again I suppose. So they decided to leak accounting losses and of course Wathan was there to prepare the ground with a pre written piece on how Fair Play Rules mean that the "Investors" are now not allowed to "invest".
Club accounts to show significant loss on 20:44 - Sep 1 by morningstar
£50k investments? Seriously now. Is there anywhere these investments can even be verified, as i seriously doubt Huw Jenkins in particular would have had £50k of disposable income to throw at a seemingly lost cause at that time. I honestly don't know about the others, just call it a hunch. 50k? Nope, can't see it sorry.
[Post edited 1 Sep 2016 20:45]
His total investment into the club was £125k, £50k at outset I think from memory and then the second lot at a later date.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 21:25 - Sep 1 with 2218 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 21:25 - Sep 1 by morningstar
I don't doubt you Phil if you state that's the case. Highly unusual though at a time when his own personal business was going to the wall!
[Post edited 1 Sep 2016 21:26]
I'm going to be mega cynical and totally beyond paranoid now and speculate it was perhaps a low risk one way bet whatever happened. I always wondered why Katzen was interested as he was always in things for the money as an investor in the true sense. Not sure how but I think they knew this would be a winner, although obviously not on such a grand scale. To do with business contracts maybe? - obviously I'm not suggesting anything untoward here. I just have this cynical thought that perhaps the 'doing it all for the love of the club' has been a useful cover from the start, even though I don't doubt Jenks and Mogs love the club. Otherwise, why Katzen? And why shit on the trust from early doors (2008?) when they insisted on scrapping the membership hypothecation. Well, I told you it was paranoid, but someone tell me why Katzen would risk 50k for something he cared nothing for if it was such a selfless punt and put my mind at rest.
I've had a few ciders mind. Crumpton Oaks 89p in tesco.
Club accounts to show significant loss on 21:44 - Sep 1 by monmouth
I'm going to be mega cynical and totally beyond paranoid now and speculate it was perhaps a low risk one way bet whatever happened. I always wondered why Katzen was interested as he was always in things for the money as an investor in the true sense. Not sure how but I think they knew this would be a winner, although obviously not on such a grand scale. To do with business contracts maybe? - obviously I'm not suggesting anything untoward here. I just have this cynical thought that perhaps the 'doing it all for the love of the club' has been a useful cover from the start, even though I don't doubt Jenks and Mogs love the club. Otherwise, why Katzen? And why shit on the trust from early doors (2008?) when they insisted on scrapping the membership hypothecation. Well, I told you it was paranoid, but someone tell me why Katzen would risk 50k for something he cared nothing for if it was such a selfless punt and put my mind at rest.
I've had a few ciders mind. Crumpton Oaks 89p in tesco.
[Post edited 1 Sep 2016 22:04]
I have always had the vibe/inkling that the reason why some (businessmen in particular!) buy into a football club is because it is a big-boys-toy, ego-trip and status symbol that can come with additional benefits e.g. procuring business contacts/contracts and the opening of doors.
People join more 'exclusive' and 'expensive' golf clubs like Wentworth etc and pay £125,000 a year not I suspect because of a love of golf but because of membership status and the fact it offers unique access and a connection to the inner circle of its clientele.
[Post edited 1 Sep 2016 22:26]
Argus!
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 22:26 - Sep 1 with 2048 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 21:44 - Sep 1 by monmouth
I'm going to be mega cynical and totally beyond paranoid now and speculate it was perhaps a low risk one way bet whatever happened. I always wondered why Katzen was interested as he was always in things for the money as an investor in the true sense. Not sure how but I think they knew this would be a winner, although obviously not on such a grand scale. To do with business contracts maybe? - obviously I'm not suggesting anything untoward here. I just have this cynical thought that perhaps the 'doing it all for the love of the club' has been a useful cover from the start, even though I don't doubt Jenks and Mogs love the club. Otherwise, why Katzen? And why shit on the trust from early doors (2008?) when they insisted on scrapping the membership hypothecation. Well, I told you it was paranoid, but someone tell me why Katzen would risk 50k for something he cared nothing for if it was such a selfless punt and put my mind at rest.
I've had a few ciders mind. Crumpton Oaks 89p in tesco.
Huw's reputation has been in free fall since his MBE. In terms of his roles
As Chairman and CEO financial performance looks to have been terrible running at loss despite TV windfalls. Loss seems to be attributable to player wages (DOF) and poor commercial department (LD) and party attributable to the real cost of the 'free' transfers like Gomis Huw likes so much. A proper CEO would've done a far better job at running the club and commercial side. As DOF lots had been said but both the quality and terms of new player signings has gone backwards since he took this on.
Finally as Shareholder he's done an amazing job making him and co shareholders wealth beyond their wildest dreams. And naturally there is no question of any conflict of interest in these 4 roles.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:44 - Sep 2 with 1881 views
So now we have reached the point where we are calling out the old owners for being clairvoyant... it wasn't a risk at all they all knew it was going to be a success. Lost for words.
This board right now
[Post edited 2 Sep 2016 7:46]
Its just a ride...
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:55 - Sep 2 with 1866 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:44 - Sep 2 by Shonky
So now we have reached the point where we are calling out the old owners for being clairvoyant... it wasn't a risk at all they all knew it was going to be a success. Lost for words.
This board right now
[Post edited 2 Sep 2016 7:46]
edit. Misread original post
[Post edited 2 Sep 2016 8:05]
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:55 - Sep 2 with 1866 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:44 - Sep 2 by Shonky
So now we have reached the point where we are calling out the old owners for being clairvoyant... it wasn't a risk at all they all knew it was going to be a success. Lost for words.
This board right now
[Post edited 2 Sep 2016 7:46]
So go on then. Explain Katzen's investment to me, plus why our trust director at the time was so keen to chuck in 50k of his own money after he'd seen the score close up. Clairvoyant my arse.
Edit - look, I'm not saying they did anything wrong or that they didn't save the club, or that some of them aren't true fans, and I'm not saying they ever dreamt of the riches they might accrue. I'm just speculating that there was always a business opportunity there and the fairy story that has been woven around that in terms of a wholly unselfish act for the benefit of the club and the community is just that, a fairy story.
Club accounts to show significant loss on 07:29 - Sep 2 by awayjack
Huw's reputation has been in free fall since his MBE. In terms of his roles
As Chairman and CEO financial performance looks to have been terrible running at loss despite TV windfalls. Loss seems to be attributable to player wages (DOF) and poor commercial department (LD) and party attributable to the real cost of the 'free' transfers like Gomis Huw likes so much. A proper CEO would've done a far better job at running the club and commercial side. As DOF lots had been said but both the quality and terms of new player signings has gone backwards since he took this on.
Finally as Shareholder he's done an amazing job making him and co shareholders wealth beyond their wildest dreams. And naturally there is no question of any conflict of interest in these 4 roles.
The fact though is that one mistake in the transfer window costs the club millions and millions.Do this twice a year and the mistake could be 10 Mill if you take in the transfer fee, agents and wages. He needs to sell players then to cover it.
the commercial side is totally insignificant in comparison unless your a man united of the world. Nothing can be done about ticket revenue unless prices are put up . In fact I'd take a guess revenue is down due to subsidising the away tickets. That leaves sponsorship, catering and merchandise . I haven't a clue where We are with sponsorship other than the papers put us us in around 10Th for value of front of shirt. Most of the other stuff in the stadium isn't ours including the naming rights. Catering isn't ours. That leaves merch. If we sold another 100,000 shirts it would bring in 2 million in profit. As I said an increase in commercial revenue is welcome but it's the football that makes all the difference both in revenue ( tv rights/ performance) and cost. Your man UnitedS of the world can generate large commercial revenue streams by having millions of supporters and spending millions on commercial/ marketing staff etc. We do not have that supporter base nor the resource. Let us hope the Americans put more resource behind commercial. The previous board used every penny on the football side and didn't invest off the field. Time will tell if there is a significant increase in revenues. I don't think there will without a a larger stadium, control of the stadium to take in catering etc and ticket price increases.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:24 - Sep 2 with 1831 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:05 - Sep 2 by dougie
The fact though is that one mistake in the transfer window costs the club millions and millions.Do this twice a year and the mistake could be 10 Mill if you take in the transfer fee, agents and wages. He needs to sell players then to cover it.
the commercial side is totally insignificant in comparison unless your a man united of the world. Nothing can be done about ticket revenue unless prices are put up . In fact I'd take a guess revenue is down due to subsidising the away tickets. That leaves sponsorship, catering and merchandise . I haven't a clue where We are with sponsorship other than the papers put us us in around 10Th for value of front of shirt. Most of the other stuff in the stadium isn't ours including the naming rights. Catering isn't ours. That leaves merch. If we sold another 100,000 shirts it would bring in 2 million in profit. As I said an increase in commercial revenue is welcome but it's the football that makes all the difference both in revenue ( tv rights/ performance) and cost. Your man UnitedS of the world can generate large commercial revenue streams by having millions of supporters and spending millions on commercial/ marketing staff etc. We do not have that supporter base nor the resource. Let us hope the Americans put more resource behind commercial. The previous board used every penny on the football side and didn't invest off the field. Time will tell if there is a significant increase in revenues. I don't think there will without a a larger stadium, control of the stadium to take in catering etc and ticket price increases.
That the Yanks know they can do a much better job controlling costs, increasing commercial revenues and buying assets (stadium) illustrates my point that Huw/Board are too stretched / not experienced at running 100m+ business. I'm suprised Yanks haven't brought in either a new CEO and DOF to support Huw as Chair but it's early days yet.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:58 - Sep 2 with 1796 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:24 - Sep 2 by awayjack
That the Yanks know they can do a much better job controlling costs, increasing commercial revenues and buying assets (stadium) illustrates my point that Huw/Board are too stretched / not experienced at running 100m+ business. I'm suprised Yanks haven't brought in either a new CEO and DOF to support Huw as Chair but it's early days yet.
If what i have heard regarding huw is true, mainly from these sites i admit, he would most certainly not accept a DOF as that is his job. The minute they bring one in he will be gone
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 09:17 - Sep 2 with 1773 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:05 - Sep 2 by dougie
The fact though is that one mistake in the transfer window costs the club millions and millions.Do this twice a year and the mistake could be 10 Mill if you take in the transfer fee, agents and wages. He needs to sell players then to cover it.
the commercial side is totally insignificant in comparison unless your a man united of the world. Nothing can be done about ticket revenue unless prices are put up . In fact I'd take a guess revenue is down due to subsidising the away tickets. That leaves sponsorship, catering and merchandise . I haven't a clue where We are with sponsorship other than the papers put us us in around 10Th for value of front of shirt. Most of the other stuff in the stadium isn't ours including the naming rights. Catering isn't ours. That leaves merch. If we sold another 100,000 shirts it would bring in 2 million in profit. As I said an increase in commercial revenue is welcome but it's the football that makes all the difference both in revenue ( tv rights/ performance) and cost. Your man UnitedS of the world can generate large commercial revenue streams by having millions of supporters and spending millions on commercial/ marketing staff etc. We do not have that supporter base nor the resource. Let us hope the Americans put more resource behind commercial. The previous board used every penny on the football side and didn't invest off the field. Time will tell if there is a significant increase in revenues. I don't think there will without a a larger stadium, control of the stadium to take in catering etc and ticket price increases.
"The previous board used every penny on the football side and didn't invest off the field"
Whilst the football side should benefit, a fair few £m went onto the 2 training complexes.
We are told that the loss is down to increased wages.
Who sanctioned those wages? Who sanctioned taking a loss/pay players and managers off? Who changed the accounts for last year from 12 to 14 months.?
The statement from the club is so full of holes, was everything such a surprise to them?
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 09:30 - Sep 2 with 1745 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 08:58 - Sep 2 by dougie
If what i have heard regarding huw is true, mainly from these sites i admit, he would most certainly not accept a DOF as that is his job. The minute they bring one in he will be gone
Good
""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make."
I really don't understand what people expected of the directors? They were sitting on a fortune that could so easily have gone overnight if they hadn't sold up!
We've had 6 fantastic years in the Prem, training facilities have been developed etc etc.
What the fu ck do/did people expect?
Are they nice people, possibly/probably not. Are they dodgy characters...Yes. I just don't see what they have done wrong in selling up.
I only wish Jenkins had gone and a proper director of football put in place.
Club accounts to show significant loss on 20:41 - Sep 1 by londonlisa2001
You'd capitalise as much of it as possible unless you were actively seeking to make a loss.
And even then, the auditors shouldn't allow you to expense an asset that you will have use over for several years.
And the lease at Fairwood makes no difference to the way you're allowed to treat expenditure - it's over a long period.
I'll bet it's all to do with timing on contracts and sales, all of which happened around the year end. In other words, it'll be an accounting thing with no impact on what was available this window.
The other factors to take into account now that we are an 'established' premier league club is the ongoing increase in :-
1. Staffing levels/costs as we've taken on Cat 1 status 2. Overall employee numbers increasing with growing investment in our academy & training facilities + support to it. 3. Players salaries increasing significantly ahead of everything else whilst the club have subsidised away tickets/ frozen season ticket prices. 4. Agents fees spiralling up. 5. Some investment at the Liberty e.g. screens but no expansion so no uplift in ticket revenue. 6. Very weak commercial success - this is where I suspect we'll see the yanks focus. 7. Suspect uplift in shirt sales has long since flattened.
So in summary all cost levers rising with only the TV money income stream going the same way.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 18:59 - Sep 2 with 1397 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 16:58 - Sep 2 by Thornburyswan
The other factors to take into account now that we are an 'established' premier league club is the ongoing increase in :-
1. Staffing levels/costs as we've taken on Cat 1 status 2. Overall employee numbers increasing with growing investment in our academy & training facilities + support to it. 3. Players salaries increasing significantly ahead of everything else whilst the club have subsidised away tickets/ frozen season ticket prices. 4. Agents fees spiralling up. 5. Some investment at the Liberty e.g. screens but no expansion so no uplift in ticket revenue. 6. Very weak commercial success - this is where I suspect we'll see the yanks focus. 7. Suspect uplift in shirt sales has long since flattened.
So in summary all cost levers rising with only the TV money income stream going the same way.
Probably explained why the sale took so long. The Americans needed an army of wall street accountants and financial wizards to unwind the real accounts from the past few years.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 21:57 - Sep 2 with 1324 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 18:59 - Sep 2 by clloy2
Probably explained why the sale took so long. The Americans needed an army of wall street accountants and financial wizards to unwind the real accounts from the past few years.
Quick look at 23 players sold, loaned or released versus 7 we've brought in shows focus on the wage costs. No doubt some in the know will have accurate figures but considering the outs include high earners like Gomis, Ayew and Ash my fag packet maths looks like we've cut £13m or so off net player wages. Fair enough - match that with profit on player sales and Extra TV money could see a huge shift from loss to record profits this season. If we have an average season without relegation It'll look like an amazing financial transformation post our Amercian 'investment'. Maybe double their investment value in year just by doing basic cost cuts.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 22:17 - Sep 2 with 1302 views
There was a company called Jaxx Bay Limited that the club seemed to have done a lot of business with in last years accounts.
It was something to do with Transactions with directors.
Interesting if any of the financial analysts on here can tell if this company made a year on year increase in profits - at the same time as the club making a significant loss.
Given the materiality of the income £2.5m (2015) and £1.7m (2014) reported in the accounts with regards to this company - assume the Trust were all over this with regards of competitive tendering process.
Not alluding to anything fishy just that potential conflicts of interest could arise if club is trading with companies owned by directors (past or present). Hence my comment that assume Trust were all over this.
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Club accounts to show significant loss on 22:43 - Sep 2 with 1259 views
Club accounts to show significant loss on 22:17 - Sep 2 by Nookiejack
There was a company called Jaxx Bay Limited that the club seemed to have done a lot of business with in last years accounts.
It was something to do with Transactions with directors.
Interesting if any of the financial analysts on here can tell if this company made a year on year increase in profits - at the same time as the club making a significant loss.
Given the materiality of the income £2.5m (2015) and £1.7m (2014) reported in the accounts with regards to this company - assume the Trust were all over this with regards of competitive tendering process.
Not alluding to anything fishy just that potential conflicts of interest could arise if club is trading with companies owned by directors (past or present). Hence my comment that assume Trust were all over this.
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