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Firstly, what got me thinking about the subject...
I caught the start of Andrew Marr yesterday and they (Marr, Polly Toynbee and Fraser Nelson) were going through the papers. The subject of Toby Young and his internet history came up and Toynbee was going to town on him. Nelson made coments to the effect of, it was all in the past and at least he is a doer, passionate about his brief and should be judged on what he does now (instead of what he tweeted 5yrs ago). He then praised Young as a journalist who actually put his money where his mouth was and put his ideas into practice, making a real difference, which is more than Toynbee or himself ever did. Toynbee comes back with "Oh yes, because he just wants to create a school for his kids". Nelson retorts; "Yes, it's better than sending them private as some columnists I could mention". Ouch!
A quick bit of online research reveals that Toynbee sent 2 out of her 3 children to Private School. More interesting detail re: Toynbee...
- She is from a super privileged background - She herself went to Private School in her primary years - She still managed to fail the 11+ and went to a state school - She achieved only 1 'A' level - Yet still went to Oxford University - She then drops out (like Corbyn) to "work in a factory and write great fiction in her spare time, like Tolstoy" - Before realising that the reality of working in a factory for long hours doesn't lend itself to such intellectual pursuits.
Is it just me or is this woman a f*cking imbecile.
...anyway, I digress.
Q1. What do the good posters of Planet Swans think about Private Education Vs State?
and
Q2. Why is it that people who call themselves left-wing (vote Labour, preach socialism and anti-privatisation) find privatisation to be such a good thing when it comes to their own offspring's education?
Why should state schools be less educating than private schools ? That’s the issue here nothing to do with affordability etc
There should be no need to have to go to a private school to get a better education .
This is why I mentioned socialism, Tom. Private business tend to perform better than government run businesses. This is because there tends to be less accountability. If you're ordering equipment and paying for it out of your own pocket you take more care to get a good price. If the government are paying you just bang the order in and hand the receipt up the chain of command.
If a private school starts having kids failing exams the money will soon dry up. Not so with government schools.
I'm saying the private schools are performing better because of the way the are structured.
[Post edited 8 Jan 2018 17:15]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Private Education on 17:07 - Jan 8 with 1793 views
would most people pay fro private education if they can afford it probably yes Is it right that money should buy a better education no. What is more interesting is some universities policies. Bristol and Exeter offer lower grades to prospective students who come from schools whose a level results are in the bottom 40% for A level results. Their evidence is that these students get better degree results than those from so called better schools. Leeds for example offer lower grades if you are in poorer post code areas. Most universities offer lower grades where students have been in care. I once attended an open day in Lancaster where the admission tutor was asked why his university were offering lower grades than others. His reply was he didn't believe in penalising students for the quality of their education. This is a top 10 university and the current Sunday Times University of the Year.
For bonus points (professor need not reply) - which group of people gain the highest points for the Teaching Excellence Framework when achieving grades at Uni?
you can have a better education if your parents can afford it ?
Nothing to do with socialism
It's everything to do with socialism because the state funded education system sees every child as equal and every child follows the same tired curriculum so all children get a similar education.
There's no acknowledgement that kids aren't all equal, they excel at different things. If a child shows a certain aptitude or passion for certain subjects their education should be tailored around that. Instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of lessons in subjects they have absolutely no interest in.
You may have a maths genius who is physically pathetic, to have him smashed around by the bigger lads on the rugby pitch for two hours twice a week isn't helping anyone.
Whereas you might have a bit of a thicko who is skilled at making things, yet you make him struggle with quadratic equations.
Educate kids to their strengths.
The current system is not fit for purpose.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
I heard a statistic on radio 4 a few months ago that surprised me. People taking GCSE and A level exams are allowed extra time if they have special needs and/or are on the spectrum. Private school pupils get the extra time at a far higher percentage than state school pupils. I think it was 3 or 4 times higher. What does that tell us?
On a practical level, If private education was abolished tomorrow the state sector would need to accommodate 625,000 children into a system that is already groaning under the financial and physical pressure of today.
Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
It's everything to do with socialism because the state funded education system sees every child as equal and every child follows the same tired curriculum so all children get a similar education.
There's no acknowledgement that kids aren't all equal, they excel at different things. If a child shows a certain aptitude or passion for certain subjects their education should be tailored around that. Instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of lessons in subjects they have absolutely no interest in.
You may have a maths genius who is physically pathetic, to have him smashed around by the bigger lads on the rugby pitch for two hours twice a week isn't helping anyone.
Whereas you might have a bit of a thicko who is skilled at making things, yet you make him struggle with quadratic equations.
Educate kids to their strengths.
The current system is not fit for purpose.
Indeed it’s not , that’s the problem the state schooling system in flawed, so why should you be able to avoid this system not fit for purpose because you got a rich daddy ?
I'm not seeing the correlation between private schools and privatization. Private schools haven't been paid for by the taxpayer and then sold off for a song so private hands benefit, like so much of the UK's infrastructure and assets have. Conflating the two is a tad disingenuous.
Quick aside - I visited Cefn Hengoed School before Christmas as my son may be going there in a few years time. I must confess to being very impressed. The new head teacher has done amazing things there, it's a real shame she's leaving at the end of the year.
[Post edited 8 Jan 2018 19:21]
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Private Education on 17:55 - Jan 8 with 1724 views
For bonus points (professor need not reply) - which group of people gain the highest points for the Teaching Excellence Framework when achieving grades at Uni?
The answer is white working class males from certain postcodes.
Mart6 - instead of being a childish, shìthouse cūnt downarrowing people join in the debate. Or is that beyond you? You massive fûcking simpleton
Indeed it’s not , that’s the problem the state schooling system in flawed, so why should you be able to avoid this system not fit for purpose because you got a rich daddy ?
If the parent thinks it's better for the kid then yeah.
If we had a proper functioning state education system though that nurtured kids talents instead of making them good at one off exams then this argument wouldn't really exist.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
you can have a better education if your parents can afford it ?
Nothing to do with socialism
You can go on nicer holidays if you can afford it. You can have a nicer house, car, TV or whatever if you can afford it. That's, er, life.
If people want to educate their kids privately they should be completely entitled to do so.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Private Education on 18:45 - Jan 8 with 1683 views
Private Education on 10:56 - Jan 8 by whoflungdung
And this was a poster utterly ignored in POTY ?
Remarkable
If you can afford it then yep private school.
Massive hypocrisy in Labpur ranks, as there always has been .I well remember Anthony Crosland s hatred of grammar schools and forcing comprehensives on all ,whilst being a fully paid up member of the private educated dinner party navel gazers who had utter contempt for the " working class" who were used to further their political careers
Toynbee is beyond contempt
Wonderful come back Kerouac . Would you join us ,one day, for Dinner up here in west Wirral
I think he was a non runner in POTY because of his use of the term sp*stic r*pe in a thread last year and then tried to pass it off as a joke. He's a f*cking Nazi anyway, so it's no surprise you like him
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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Private Education on 20:00 - Jan 8 with 1614 views
The focus should not be on banning private schools or handicapping them in some way by removing charity status etc.
The focus should 100% be on making the state system better. The same goes for rich people. So many people slate rich business owners, football players etc. We should be trying to make the poorer richer not the richer poorer.
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Private Education on 20:35 - Jan 8 with 1593 views
Some of the students that go to uni to get a PGCE is alarming. Many have come to a dead end and think they'll give teaching a go. So many drop out of teaching if they miraculously last the 3 year course!!!!
I OBVIOUSLY salute those that do it for the right reasons and become a credit to the profession.
We all know someone who's become a teacher, and we all talk about them behind their backs with disbelief, don't we?
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Private Education on 20:48 - Jan 8 with 1586 views
Some of the students that go to uni to get a PGCE is alarming. Many have come to a dead end and think they'll give teaching a go. So many drop out of teaching if they miraculously last the 3 year course!!!!
I OBVIOUSLY salute those that do it for the right reasons and become a credit to the profession.
We all know someone who's become a teacher, and we all talk about them behind their backs with disbelief, don't we?
Think you're bang on the money there mate. It doesn't seem to me that teaching is as respected a profession as it should be in this country. The salary for a teacher is nowhere near as high as it should be, and in Norway for example to teach upper secondary you need a masters degree in your topic I believe. I don't say this as a teacher myself, but as someone who is qualified to do it (baring the PGCE of course), but wouldn't dream of it for the money on offer, mostly because of kids. Some of the kids I went to school with... £22k is nowhere near enough worth putting up with them, double that, I'd think about it.
Those that do it and do it well.. they deserve a medal. I owe so much to my high school physics teacher, wouldn't be where I am today with out him, no doubt in my mind.
Upthecity!
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Private Education on 23:26 - Jan 8 with 1534 views
I think he was a non runner in POTY because of his use of the term sp*stic r*pe in a thread last year and then tried to pass it off as a joke. He's a f*cking Nazi anyway, so it's no surprise you like him
The Comprehensive system has failed. I attended both Grammar and Comp and the difference in education standards was staggering. The one size fits all style of education does not work, and bright kids and those less able have suffered because of it, and all for the sake of what is perceived as equality.
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Private Education on 05:37 - Jan 9 with 1482 views
Indeed it’s not , that’s the problem the state schooling system in flawed, so why should you be able to avoid this system not fit for purpose because you got a rich daddy ?
"...so why should you be able to avoid this system not fit for purpose because you got a rich daddy ?"
Good grief, Thomas, spoken like a true socialist there.
George Orwell, in his book 'A Road to Wigan Pier', said that socialists do not love the poor, they hate the rich.
And here's a quote from Mr Churchill...
"The equal sharing of misery" You see, you are not thinking how do we improve state education? You are thinking why aren't we also crippling rich kids as well?
It would be excellent if we could provide all kids with the same level of education. But surely we should be trying to improve the worst rather than tear down the best?
This kind of thinking led Pol Pot to kill the intellectuals and the educated because he couldn't make the dunces any cleverer and therefore people weren't equal. Don't run for power, Tom
[Post edited 9 Jan 2018 6:25]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Private Education on 05:43 - Jan 9 with 1481 views
The focus should not be on banning private schools or handicapping them in some way by removing charity status etc.
The focus should 100% be on making the state system better. The same goes for rich people. So many people slate rich business owners, football players etc. We should be trying to make the poorer richer not the richer poorer.
Excellent post.
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Private Education on 05:47 - Jan 9 with 1480 views
I'm not seeing the correlation between private schools and privatization. Private schools haven't been paid for by the taxpayer and then sold off for a song so private hands benefit, like so much of the UK's infrastructure and assets have. Conflating the two is a tad disingenuous.
Quick aside - I visited Cefn Hengoed School before Christmas as my son may be going there in a few years time. I must confess to being very impressed. The new head teacher has done amazing things there, it's a real shame she's leaving at the end of the year.
[Post edited 8 Jan 2018 19:21]
I'm not sure if you're referring to me here, JMO, but this is my point. I'm saying that the standards of education coming out of state and private schools is not going to be equal...because they are working under very different conditions.
Now I believe the focus should be on how we can improve the education of kids in state schools rather than dragging kids in performing schools back...because they have a rich daddy.
If people believe all kids deserve the highest standard of education possible, why would you take away the option of a good education that some kids are receiving because they have a rich daddy? This will not improve the education of the poorest kids. It just helps people who can't stand to see inequality feel better. The problem to be solved is that some kids are not getting a decent level of education, not that others are.
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Private Education on 07:55 - Jan 9 with 1428 views
It's divisive but understandable and I d suggest few,if they were able would not pay for better ,well equipped school
Thing is .... if rich people, who demand good education for their kids, were in the state school sector, then everyone might benefit. Standards might go up for all.
Just a thought.
Public schooling is a selfish act. Education can enrich a community.
Beware of the Risen People
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Private Education on 08:34 - Jan 9 with 1418 views
You are doing just fine until the last sentence abryn. Great to be back
It's quite often
It's a fact that those " with money" are the most "careful or tight ,if you like ,whereas many of a lower income bracket thrown what they have down the toilet
Many struggle to pay fees as not all are born into ludicrous wealth
Private Education on 07:55 - Jan 9 by Kilkennyjack
Thing is .... if rich people, who demand good education for their kids, were in the state school sector, then everyone might benefit. Standards might go up for all.
Just a thought.
Public schooling is a selfish act. Education can enrich a community.
FFS
The children of rich families don't get a better education because their parents demand it. They get it because their parents PAY FOR IT.
The only reason the rich get what they want, it's the same reason they have the label 'rich', btw, is because of their money. If their kids go to a free state school then the parents are not paying and they have no power to demand. In a private school they can threaten to stop paying if their kids results start dropping.
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