| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 11:27 - Aug 23 with 978 views | Neath_Jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 10:09 - Aug 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
I have to take issue with your statement here. It is not legal to illegally enter another country. The clue is in the name “illegal immigrant”.
I’ve never wanted to be even seen to be close to the racist ghoul but the Sudan/Syria/Libya is not 23 miles across the channel!
The French have the cheek to funnel these poor unfortunate people to a camp within striking distance of the UK, treat them worse than animals with no provision of housing or support and then criticize the UK for not allowing them to risk their lives on toy dinghies overladen with people including children??
Im sorry to say they are not seeking asylum from persecution and maltreatment from some Middle Eastern warzone . They’re seeking asylum from the persecution and maltreatment by the French government !!! |
They only become an illegal immigrant if they disappear into the country, after failing to get asylum. Up until that point, they are asylum seekers.
Edit to say, that if they don't apply for asylum and just skip off into the country, that they would be illegals. [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 11:40]
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:04 - Aug 23 with 940 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 11:27 - Aug 23 by Neath_Jack |
They only become an illegal immigrant if they disappear into the country, after failing to get asylum. Up until that point, they are asylum seekers.
Edit to say, that if they don't apply for asylum and just skip off into the country, that they would be illegals. [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 11:40]
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As probably quite a few have done.
The main point I was trying to make though is the massive hypocrisy of the French in all this. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:09 - Aug 23 with 935 views | controversial_jack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:04 - Aug 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
As probably quite a few have done.
The main point I was trying to make though is the massive hypocrisy of the French in all this. |
Why? |  | | |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 14:14 - Aug 23 with 933 views | Andy1300 |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 11:05 - Aug 23 by controversial_jack |
No it's not. They can go to any country and apply for asylum. If they get it they become legal immigrants, if they don't they get get returned.At no time are they illegal |
So he got refused, didn’t get returned, he then became illegal In trying to get to Britain. |  |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 19:00 - Aug 23 with 888 views | Brynmill_Jack |
Read my main post | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 19:52 - Aug 23 with 872 views | AnotherJohn |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 21:49 - Aug 20 by LeonWasGod |
It's set out clearly in the fullfact article you yourself were quoting - https://fullfact.org/immigrati
As controvertial_jack say, they have no right to be granted asylum. Only the right to apply. Many fail and are deported. While we hang on to our EU rights we can still send unsuccessful claimants back to France I believe (we certainly were able to before we left the EU, and did). That option will end on 31st December unless we come up with a new reciprocal arrangement with France.
Again they have a right to travel through countries if they are seeking asylum, so it's not as simple as saying they are in any country illegally. And they're not de facto illegal here - they are legally allowed to travel here to claim asylum. Don't believe what the Brexiteer headbangers are telling you. |
Article 31 has been controversial ever since it was drafted, with pro-immigration law academics seeming to me to argue that the words do not mean what they say. For example, in the Full Facts article it is suggested that irregular migrants presenting themselves immediately to the authorities are exempted from legal penalties, but actually that isn't how Article 31 is phrased.
"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on
account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees
who, coming directly from a territory where their life or
freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization,
provided they present themselves without delay to the
authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or
presence".
It is clear on a literal reading of this passage that the last part of the sentence applies only to those who are "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened". Indeed this is clearly set out in the guidance on interpretation of Article 31 as applied in s31 of the Immigration Act 1999.
_____________
Section 31 (1) states there is a defence against prosecution for a refugee who:
ï‚· has come to the UK directly from a country where their life or freedom was threatened
(as defined in the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees)
ï‚· is charged with an offence section 31 applies to
if they can show they:
ï‚· presented themselves to the UK authorities as soon as possible
ï‚· showed good cause for their illegal entry or presence
ï‚· claimed asylum as soon as was reasonably practical after arriving in the UK
Section 31 (2) states sub section (1) only applies to refugees who have travelled to the UK
through another country, if they can show they could not reasonably have expected to be
given protection under the 1951 convention in that country.
https://assets.publishing.serv
______________
In short the law, including the case law. isn't as clear cut as the senior lecturer in law who advised on the Full Facts webpage suggested. [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 20:00]
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 20:23 - Aug 23 with 850 views | Kerouac |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 19:52 - Aug 23 by AnotherJohn |
Article 31 has been controversial ever since it was drafted, with pro-immigration law academics seeming to me to argue that the words do not mean what they say. For example, in the Full Facts article it is suggested that irregular migrants presenting themselves immediately to the authorities are exempted from legal penalties, but actually that isn't how Article 31 is phrased.
"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on
account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees
who, coming directly from a territory where their life or
freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization,
provided they present themselves without delay to the
authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or
presence".
It is clear on a literal reading of this passage that the last part of the sentence applies only to those who are "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened". Indeed this is clearly set out in the guidance on interpretation of Article 31 as applied in s31 of the Immigration Act 1999.
_____________
Section 31 (1) states there is a defence against prosecution for a refugee who:
ï‚· has come to the UK directly from a country where their life or freedom was threatened
(as defined in the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees)
ï‚· is charged with an offence section 31 applies to
if they can show they:
ï‚· presented themselves to the UK authorities as soon as possible
ï‚· showed good cause for their illegal entry or presence
ï‚· claimed asylum as soon as was reasonably practical after arriving in the UK
Section 31 (2) states sub section (1) only applies to refugees who have travelled to the UK
through another country, if they can show they could not reasonably have expected to be
given protection under the 1951 convention in that country.
https://assets.publishing.serv
______________
In short the law, including the case law. isn't as clear cut as the senior lecturer in law who advised on the Full Facts webpage suggested. [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 20:00]
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Correct. |  |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 12:47 - Aug 24 with 788 views | Catullus |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 19:52 - Aug 23 by AnotherJohn |
Article 31 has been controversial ever since it was drafted, with pro-immigration law academics seeming to me to argue that the words do not mean what they say. For example, in the Full Facts article it is suggested that irregular migrants presenting themselves immediately to the authorities are exempted from legal penalties, but actually that isn't how Article 31 is phrased.
"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on
account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees
who, coming directly from a territory where their life or
freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization,
provided they present themselves without delay to the
authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or
presence".
It is clear on a literal reading of this passage that the last part of the sentence applies only to those who are "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened". Indeed this is clearly set out in the guidance on interpretation of Article 31 as applied in s31 of the Immigration Act 1999.
_____________
Section 31 (1) states there is a defence against prosecution for a refugee who:
ï‚· has come to the UK directly from a country where their life or freedom was threatened
(as defined in the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees)
ï‚· is charged with an offence section 31 applies to
if they can show they:
ï‚· presented themselves to the UK authorities as soon as possible
ï‚· showed good cause for their illegal entry or presence
ï‚· claimed asylum as soon as was reasonably practical after arriving in the UK
Section 31 (2) states sub section (1) only applies to refugees who have travelled to the UK
through another country, if they can show they could not reasonably have expected to be
given protection under the 1951 convention in that country.
https://assets.publishing.serv
______________
In short the law, including the case law. isn't as clear cut as the senior lecturer in law who advised on the Full Facts webpage suggested. [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 20:00]
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Is that a case of lawyers drafting a law that is deliberately ambiguous that it guarantees a long time in court arguing about it and so ensuring them a good payday?
To me it's a bit like the big corporate tax lawyers being invited in by our government to advise on new tax laws, in other words a big con. | |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:55 - Aug 24 with 775 views | Flashberryjack |
Apparently he was aged 28 not 16, and his application for asylum in France was refused, he then stole an inflatable intending to paddle across the channel but accidentally punctured it with a makeshift oar.
He was a non-swimmer and subsequently drowned, and was washed up on the French coast.
I read this in the Sun, so it may be a complete load of old bullox |  |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 15:09 - Aug 24 with 758 views | Catullus |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:55 - Aug 24 by Flashberryjack |
Apparently he was aged 28 not 16, and his application for asylum in France was refused, he then stole an inflatable intending to paddle across the channel but accidentally punctured it with a makeshift oar.
He was a non-swimmer and subsequently drowned, and was washed up on the French coast.
I read this in the Sun, so it may be a complete load of old bullox |
It might be but we do know that migrants (whatever their status) have lied about their age,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor
Under 18's are far less likley to be returned to wherever they came from or refused asylum. Some of them lose their papers on purpose because a passport showing you are 21 won't go down well if you are claiming to be 15!
And yes it's the Daily Mail,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne | |
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| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 15:11 - Aug 24 with 756 views | Highjack |
| Dead 16yr old washed up on Calais beach... on 13:55 - Aug 24 by Flashberryjack |
Apparently he was aged 28 not 16, and his application for asylum in France was refused, he then stole an inflatable intending to paddle across the channel but accidentally punctured it with a makeshift oar.
He was a non-swimmer and subsequently drowned, and was washed up on the French coast.
I read this in the Sun, so it may be a complete load of old bullox |
So basically Darwinism in action.
Honestly I can’t think of many things more stupid than leaving the safety of a nice, peaceful country like France and attempting to cross 20 odd miles of freezing cold water with incredibly strong tidal currents with several people balanced on a small lilo trying to avoid P&O ferries and other massive ships in the biggest shipping lane in the world. |  |
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