| Coronavirus mortality 23:32 - Oct 2 with 16366 views | Professor |
Let’s put a true perspective on this. 99.5% of people survive. Well maybe, though probably closer to 99%. Imagine a full house at the Liberty.
Imagine as you go out a line of 120 people (maybe 240). They are executed.
That is a 0.5% mortality rate.
It’s not a binary disease either. More will have long term illness.
Just think about that.
This is not supporting a lockdown or any other specific intervention. Just a reality check. By the way flu has a 0.1% mortality rate. |  | | |  |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:49 - Oct 9 with 823 views | onehunglow |
I would personally be happy if masks wearing were enforced.It says "Mandatory".It is clearly not.
pass a law/regulation and not enforce it and actually say that show how dumb Bojo is. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 11:55 - Oct 9 with 815 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:45 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
You completely and continually fail to recognise that the figures you keep referring to were in March, April and early May. From June onwards the rate in Wales was lower than that in England. Even yesterday Wales has 638 new cases which is roughly 13000 UK wide yet the UK figure was 17000. In July and August the Wales rate was lower daily than England usually 1/2 pro rata and sometimes 1/4. This was at a time when Wales weren't wearing masks and England were. There were 8 cases shown on the daily figures by recording date and 5 by test date at the lowest point. When did England show 100 or 160 cases per day. It didnt.
Wales suffered massively at the beginning of the pandemic. The period to compare as to whether masks work or not is the period they were worn elsewhere in the UK and not worn in Wales and during that period the figures were lower daily in Wales. |
Is the wearing of masks the only difference in the entire way the lockdown has been handled in Wales compared to the rest of the UK?
The figures of infection per 100,000 on the official website right now are:-
England 853.9
Scotland 655
Wales 896.4
Your mask argument is absolutely stupid. [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 12:01]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 11:56 - Oct 9 with 815 views | controversial_jack |
| Coronavirus mortality on 10:53 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
They are realistic policies. We have to get the economy moving. Of course they may need to shut again but at least they will have feathered the nest somewhat. Keeping business closed until the virus is gone is absolutely ridiculous and impossible.
Most people have to be able to earn money.
You are putting two and two together and coming up with five. It's not just tourism or pubs it is a cumilation of everything, in fact they are a small part.
The vast majority of cases are from households or workplaces. Just look at the jump with students going back. It was always going to happen. |
It seems to be Unis now, but Professor will disagree with this for whatever reason | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 12:15 - Oct 9 with 808 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:56 - Oct 9 by controversial_jack |
It seems to be Unis now, but Professor will disagree with this for whatever reason |
Yes-but not just universities-the NW, NE and Leeds were ready high before. Entirely predictable lots of people in close proximity indoors for teaching and in accommodation . I won't blame students CJ. I blame the government in forcing a return to face-to-face teaching and being on campus. we have stopped face to face apart from clinical teaching as of yesterday. Hearing of staff falling ill in a number of universities across the north. Should have been online only (except clinical-medics, dentist, nurses, vets etc.) until January. Head of OfS should go. [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 12:28]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:03 - Oct 9 with 795 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:56 - Oct 9 by controversial_jack |
It seems to be Unis now, but Professor will disagree with this for whatever reason |
Yes students going back was always going to be a problem. Living in HMOs or Halls of Residence was always going to increase levels which is precisely why the figures needed to be low at this time. They weren't because of decisions taken by government. It stemmed from people returning with the virus from abroad. It is not by accident that some far eastern countries have largely prevented the virus in their countries and possibly had previous experience of other viruses. It is extremely arrogant to think we cannot learn the lessons from there. Places like Bangkok, Phuket and Koh Samui are tourist destinations but governments there put stopping the virus as the main policy. We didnt and are now seeing the results of the policy that you championed. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:06 - Oct 9 with 791 views | onehunglow |
It seems my question cannot be answered then by those believing smaks are not effective.
So again,
Where is the proof they are not and
is distancing effective
is washing hands effective.
Or are these too seen as scaremonging ? | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:21 - Oct 9 with 784 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:06 - Oct 9 by onehunglow |
It seems my question cannot be answered then by those believing smaks are not effective.
So again,
Where is the proof they are not and
is distancing effective
is washing hands effective.
Or are these too seen as scaremonging ? |
The evidence is increasing that airborne transmission, not surfaces are in fact the main route. Distancing and masks will reduce this risk. Surface contamination is a risk, so hand washing should be followed still. I do feel, as I did back in March, that the likelihood of airborne tranmsission was underplayed. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:24 - Oct 9 with 783 views | onehunglow |
Ive packed in Total Fitness a a result.Tough really as I went 4 times per week but the risk ,as I see it,aint worth the risk.
It's harder to motivate fitness from home which is why a PT is a good idea. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 13:32 - Oct 9 with 782 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:06 - Oct 9 by onehunglow |
It seems my question cannot be answered then by those believing smaks are not effective.
So again,
Where is the proof they are not and
is distancing effective
is washing hands effective.
Or are these too seen as scaremonging ? |
Social distancing and hand washing has been proven to be effective. They were the basis of the reduction from 391 to 8 in a day so there isnt any doubt. Masks weren't part of this in Wales. It happened without people using masks. Since the introduction of masks in shops in Wales the numbers have rocketed 110 a day to 638 yesterday. If masks were the reason it wouldnt have come down and wouldnt have rocketed. The same thing happened in England. Figures rose when masks were introduced. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:03 - Oct 9 with 773 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:55 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
Is the wearing of masks the only difference in the entire way the lockdown has been handled in Wales compared to the rest of the UK?
The figures of infection per 100,000 on the official website right now are:-
England 853.9
Scotland 655
Wales 896.4
Your mask argument is absolutely stupid. [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 12:01]
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Here is a post from 19 July. Just look at how much the gap has narrowed showing how there has been less cases in Wales than England. A 86 point gap has closed to 43.
So Wales has highest rate in the U.K. then, despite dippy Drakeford and his pathetic political point scoring
England 253,585 453.0
Northern Ireland 5,834 310.0
Scotland 18,445 339.2
Wales 16,928 539.3 | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:15 - Oct 9 with 769 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 13:32 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
Social distancing and hand washing has been proven to be effective. They were the basis of the reduction from 391 to 8 in a day so there isnt any doubt. Masks weren't part of this in Wales. It happened without people using masks. Since the introduction of masks in shops in Wales the numbers have rocketed 110 a day to 638 yesterday. If masks were the reason it wouldnt have come down and wouldnt have rocketed. The same thing happened in England. Figures rose when masks were introduced. |
Let me explain again about masks.
All the countries that went through the 2 previous Epidemics, SARS & MERS all wear masks, it does not have to be mandated, it became almost automatic or second nature.
We have an epidemic put on your masks.
One of the most succesful countries in controlling epidemics is South Korea.
The head of the epidemic control team advocates masks, gloves and glasses as well as hand washing if gloves are not worn.
He also obviously advocates social distancing.
But they also have effective track & trace and quarantine of ill patients.
ie they the expertise that is missing from most western countries.
There is an old saying Viruses do not legs and cannot walk, they do not wings and cannot fly, they cannot swim.
Although in dry conditions it can float on the breeze.
It therefore stands to reason that "distancing works, in fact if you never got closer than 100 yards to anyone else you couldn't catch that way.
Although hand washing works when surfaces and objects are touched great care is needed, especially where cars are concerned.
The one problem with no mask and only hand washing as was first advised in the UK is that if you did move through a cloud of viruses from someone's cough, sneeze or breathing, not only do you breath it in it is also on your face and hair.
The evidence suggests that the higher the viral load the more severe the illness, so any and every method of reducing the load has to be a good thing. But you have to be careful handling masks and gloves.
For a classic example of how good masks can be consider Czechia, they are about the same population as Sweden. They were asked by their government to wear home made masks to save the real thing for the medical people.
At the height of their 1 st wave in April when mask wearing in public was practically 100% their new cases peaked at 377/day and mortality 18/day
They ended their state of emergency on the 17th of May, in August masks were no longer mandated anywhere but schools.
The result of this is that their 2nd wave now stands at 5397 cases per day and their mortality 40 per day.
Mind you their deaths/millions are still only 81 compared to Sweden's 583.
Look for yourself here
https://www.worldometers.info/ [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 15:16]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 14:56 - Oct 9 with 760 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 14:15 - Oct 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
Let me explain again about masks.
All the countries that went through the 2 previous Epidemics, SARS & MERS all wear masks, it does not have to be mandated, it became almost automatic or second nature.
We have an epidemic put on your masks.
One of the most succesful countries in controlling epidemics is South Korea.
The head of the epidemic control team advocates masks, gloves and glasses as well as hand washing if gloves are not worn.
He also obviously advocates social distancing.
But they also have effective track & trace and quarantine of ill patients.
ie they the expertise that is missing from most western countries.
There is an old saying Viruses do not legs and cannot walk, they do not wings and cannot fly, they cannot swim.
Although in dry conditions it can float on the breeze.
It therefore stands to reason that "distancing works, in fact if you never got closer than 100 yards to anyone else you couldn't catch that way.
Although hand washing works when surfaces and objects are touched great care is needed, especially where cars are concerned.
The one problem with no mask and only hand washing as was first advised in the UK is that if you did move through a cloud of viruses from someone's cough, sneeze or breathing, not only do you breath it in it is also on your face and hair.
The evidence suggests that the higher the viral load the more severe the illness, so any and every method of reducing the load has to be a good thing. But you have to be careful handling masks and gloves.
For a classic example of how good masks can be consider Czechia, they are about the same population as Sweden. They were asked by their government to wear home made masks to save the real thing for the medical people.
At the height of their 1 st wave in April when mask wearing in public was practically 100% their new cases peaked at 377/day and mortality 18/day
They ended their state of emergency on the 17th of May, in August masks were no longer mandated anywhere but schools.
The result of this is that their 2nd wave now stands at 5397 cases per day and their mortality 40 per day.
Mind you their deaths/millions are still only 81 compared to Sweden's 583.
Look for yourself here
https://www.worldometers.info/ [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 15:16]
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Mart6 is back
AFD- excellent post. Excellent advice. Some viruses can be airborne for a fair distance, though tend to be the tougher DNA viruses. Foot and Mouth has a much greater transmission range, but for these coronaviruses close contact indoors or prolonged and close outdoor contact is needed.
Oddly chicken viruses are a good example to illustrate the poinnt-IBV (corona) and Mareks' Disese (a herpesvirus) only became major pathogens with intensification-lots of animals in close proximity indoors for long periods. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:22 - Oct 9 with 739 views | onehunglow |
So distancing ok and hand washing but not masks!.Great.
That is not proof taxman. I could also append figures believing masks to have effect.
Now,distancing.2 metres/1 metre? Jury is out on both. Which is right..
Frankly,it's all rubbish and I'll remind you AGAIN of how dumb we are.
War Criminals Blair and Campbell had the brilliant idea to open our pubs to stop binge drinking.Yep, all bars were open to all hours if they wanted as were clubs. And he stated we would drink more sensibly as a nation like they do on Continent. Really. Any belief we could drink sensibly shows we lack politicians with what they deem we have,ie common sense. Blair promulated a massive increase in assaults on emergency workers,violent domestics and other abuse not forgetting the appalling detritus left in our cities in the aftermath .
Until we enforce ,we will die.
Again,why do surgeons and doctors wear masks
[Post edited 9 Oct 2020 19:49]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 16:25 - Oct 9 with 737 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:22 - Oct 9 by onehunglow |
So distancing ok and hand washing but not masks!.Great.
That is not proof taxman. I could also append figures believing masks to have effect.
Now,distancing.2 metres/1 metre? Jury is out on both. Which is right..
Frankly,it's all rubbish and I'll remind you AGAIN of how dumb we are.
War Criminals Blair and Campbell had the brilliant idea to open our pubs to stop binge drinking.Yep, all bars were open to all hours if they wanted as were clubs. And he stated we would drink more sensibly as a nation like they do on Continent. Really. Any belief we could drink sensibly shows we lack politicians with what they deem we have,ie common sense. Blair promulated a massive increase in assaults on emergency workers,violent domestics and other abuse not forgetting the appalling detritus left in our cities in the aftermath .
Until we enforce ,we will die.
Again,why do surgeons and doctors wear masks
[Post edited 9 Oct 2020 19:49]
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That is your choice. I think the figures are pretty clear. They went down to next to nothing when masks weren't being worn. That speaks for itself. If you have a different view that's fine. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:40 - Oct 9 with 730 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:25 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
That is your choice. I think the figures are pretty clear. They went down to next to nothing when masks weren't being worn. That speaks for itself. If you have a different view that's fine. |
It doesn't speak for itself. That is your interpretation and it is wrong.
We were in a stricter and longer lock down. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:42 - Oct 9 with 729 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:40 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
It doesn't speak for itself. That is your interpretation and it is wrong.
We were in a stricter and longer lock down. |
Not in July and August we weren't. Even if we were in a stricter lockdown it doesn't alter the fact that the figures dropped whilst masks were not being used. Fact not fiction. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:44 - Oct 9 with 728 views | Catullus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:45 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
You completely and continually fail to recognise that the figures you keep referring to were in March, April and early May. From June onwards the rate in Wales was lower than that in England. Even yesterday Wales has 638 new cases which is roughly 13000 UK wide yet the UK figure was 17000. In July and August the Wales rate was lower daily than England usually 1/2 pro rata and sometimes 1/4. This was at a time when Wales weren't wearing masks and England were. There were 8 cases shown on the daily figures by recording date and 5 by test date at the lowest point. When did England show 100 or 160 cases per day. It didnt.
Wales suffered massively at the beginning of the pandemic. The period to compare as to whether masks work or not is the period they were worn elsewhere in the UK and not worn in Wales and during that period the figures were lower daily in Wales. |
You continually fail to realise that wearing masks hopefully lowers the spread but mainly it's about reducing viral load, a lower viral load results in a less severe illness and maybe it's because of masks that the death rate with this wave is significantly lower so far. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 17:00 - Oct 9 with 724 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:44 - Oct 9 by Catullus |
You continually fail to realise that wearing masks hopefully lowers the spread but mainly it's about reducing viral load, a lower viral load results in a less severe illness and maybe it's because of masks that the death rate with this wave is significantly lower so far. |
If it was the mask that lowered the spread then the figures wouldnt drop when people weren't wearing them from 391 in a day to 8 in a day. This didnt happen because of masks. It happened through good social distancing and hand washing and due to the stay local rule. These worked. The evidence shows that. Masks weren't generally being worn and figures were down to next to nothing. They only went back up when borders and pubs were opened. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:10 - Oct 9 with 720 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:00 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
If it was the mask that lowered the spread then the figures wouldnt drop when people weren't wearing them from 391 in a day to 8 in a day. This didnt happen because of masks. It happened through good social distancing and hand washing and due to the stay local rule. These worked. The evidence shows that. Masks weren't generally being worn and figures were down to next to nothing. They only went back up when borders and pubs were opened. |
Why do you say that people weren't wearing masks?
Some of us have been wearing them right from the beginning, we did not need the government to lead us by the hand and tell us what was the best thing to do.
Why do you think it took the UK so long to get it under control compared to countries that had lockdown, social distancing, hand washing and masks? [Post edited 9 Oct 2020 17:22]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 17:11 - Oct 9 with 720 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 16:42 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
Not in July and August we weren't. Even if we were in a stricter lockdown it doesn't alter the fact that the figures dropped whilst masks were not being used. Fact not fiction. |
Weren't we? When did pubs and restaurants open in Wales again? When did the moronic 5 mile rule get relaxed? When was I allowed back to the gym?
You do realise that covid doesn't infect everyone the day lockdown is relaxed at first there is a gradual increase.
It may be a fact that cases dropped while masks weren't being worn but it is in spite of that not because of it.
Do you really believe that this is proof that masks don't work? Can't you see there are a multitude of other factors too. I'm genuinely a bit baffled by that.
I could say I know seven people who ho have had covid, none of them have ginger hair, therefore ginger haired people don't get covid. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:21 - Oct 9 with 718 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:11 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
Weren't we? When did pubs and restaurants open in Wales again? When did the moronic 5 mile rule get relaxed? When was I allowed back to the gym?
You do realise that covid doesn't infect everyone the day lockdown is relaxed at first there is a gradual increase.
It may be a fact that cases dropped while masks weren't being worn but it is in spite of that not because of it.
Do you really believe that this is proof that masks don't work? Can't you see there are a multitude of other factors too. I'm genuinely a bit baffled by that.
I could say I know seven people who ho have had covid, none of them have ginger hair, therefore ginger haired people don't get covid. |
I can confirm that my Grandson has ginger hair and he hasn't had COVID.
Must be true. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:35 - Oct 9 with 714 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:21 - Oct 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
I can confirm that my Grandson has ginger hair and he hasn't had COVID.
Must be true. |
No one positive i know up here is ginger either. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:57 - Oct 9 with 707 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Science: Correlation is NOT Causation (Causality) | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:05 - Oct 9 with 706 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:57 - Oct 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
Science: Correlation is NOT Causation (Causality) |
A lot of people and the media fail to get this. Anyway if Scotia, you and me agree it must be pretty conclusive. Have a good weekend and stay safe all! | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:06 - Oct 9 with 704 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 17:21 - Oct 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
I can confirm that my Grandson has ginger hair and he hasn't had COVID.
Must be true. |
I'm off to panic buy ginger hair dye. I'm convinced. | | | |
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