| Coronavirus mortality 23:32 - Oct 2 with 16377 views | Professor |
Let’s put a true perspective on this. 99.5% of people survive. Well maybe, though probably closer to 99%. Imagine a full house at the Liberty.
Imagine as you go out a line of 120 people (maybe 240). They are executed.
That is a 0.5% mortality rate.
It’s not a binary disease either. More will have long term illness.
Just think about that.
This is not supporting a lockdown or any other specific intervention. Just a reality check. By the way flu has a 0.1% mortality rate. |  | | |  |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:34 - Oct 8 with 973 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Coronavirus mortality on 18:50 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
Nobody knows. The figures dont show that. The only thing that is shown in the Public Health Wales figures is that there have been 677 cases in the last week in the figures provided for Wales which were resident outside Wales which relate to Welsh students studying mainly in England. The majority of students didnt come back until 19 September and by 23 September there were 41 cases. Given that the recording date is several days after the actual test date it is highly unlikely these all related to students. It has risen since which may or may not be attributable to students. Over the last 4 days the amounts have been 95, 47, 105 and 72 in a day despite masks being worn in shops. |
I think that due to social distancing in most shops continuing through the non lockdown period that very few cases are infected in shops.
Parties, pubs, clubs, raves, discos etc are much more likely. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:46 - Oct 8 with 977 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:34 - Oct 8 by A_Fans_Dad |
I think that due to social distancing in most shops continuing through the non lockdown period that very few cases are infected in shops.
Parties, pubs, clubs, raves, discos etc are much more likely. |
I agree totally and all the evidence suggests that it doesnt get passed on in shops with or without masks. The figures dropped from April to August when people were not wearing masks in shops. You would have thought it would have dropped further when the wearing of masks was introduced but in Wales like England it has gone up. It might be people being comfortable and not socially distancing thinking they are safe with a mask.
The things that appear to have caused the greatest problems are the opening of borders, opening of pubs and students going to university. Australia has now decided to close their borders until the end of 2021. Had we kept our borders closed we would probably be in a far better position now and other industries would not be struggling as they are. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 20:12 - Oct 8 with 969 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 19:46 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
I agree totally and all the evidence suggests that it doesnt get passed on in shops with or without masks. The figures dropped from April to August when people were not wearing masks in shops. You would have thought it would have dropped further when the wearing of masks was introduced but in Wales like England it has gone up. It might be people being comfortable and not socially distancing thinking they are safe with a mask.
The things that appear to have caused the greatest problems are the opening of borders, opening of pubs and students going to university. Australia has now decided to close their borders until the end of 2021. Had we kept our borders closed we would probably be in a far better position now and other industries would not be struggling as they are. |
If only we were a four hour flight from our nearest similar neighbour rather than swimming distance.
We can not keep our borders completely closed and we cannot keep businesses closed. They can all open safely under the correct conditions. It is the fault of every UK government that this hasn't happened.
Your comments on masks and increasing cases don't make sense.
You could say that Wales was last to introduce masks and in the second wave (as the first) we have the highest rate of infection so we should have introduced them sooner. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 20:22 - Oct 8 with 963 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 20:12 - Oct 8 by Scotia |
If only we were a four hour flight from our nearest similar neighbour rather than swimming distance.
We can not keep our borders completely closed and we cannot keep businesses closed. They can all open safely under the correct conditions. It is the fault of every UK government that this hasn't happened.
Your comments on masks and increasing cases don't make sense.
You could say that Wales was last to introduce masks and in the second wave (as the first) we have the highest rate of infection so we should have introduced them sooner. |
We are seeing the result of your ideas and businesses of all types are closing and it will get worse. Probably back in a full lockdown shortly. Other places who are used a different system are not in our position. We have chosen our path as you wanted and we are now paying for it.
The UK new cases are now over 17,000 today. You have been claiming this has been in control. You cannot just control the virus as you say. You have to stop it getting here just as Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and South Korea have done [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 20:49]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 21:11 - Oct 8 with 935 views | onehunglow |
So this is definate?Mask are useless. Why do surgeons wear them,dentists too and always have done. How about distancing? Shyte too? Washing hands?
Jesus, we are actually looking at ways of killing each other.
You take whatever view you have then trawl through until you find something that fits the narrative .
Where it does or not,it it s a regulation yet we have people who ognore only becasue they are selfish and self centred. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 21:15]
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| Coronavirus mortality on 21:19 - Oct 8 with 929 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:11 - Oct 8 by onehunglow |
So this is definate?Mask are useless. Why do surgeons wear them,dentists too and always have done. How about distancing? Shyte too? Washing hands?
Jesus, we are actually looking at ways of killing each other.
You take whatever view you have then trawl through until you find something that fits the narrative .
Where it does or not,it it s a regulation yet we have people who ognore only becasue they are selfish and self centred. [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 21:15]
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I dont suggest people ignore the law but the evidence doesnt support the wearing of masks in shops. If it did the figures would have been going down instead of up and it has gone up in England and Wales when they were brought in at different times. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:23 - Oct 8 with 925 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 20:22 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
We are seeing the result of your ideas and businesses of all types are closing and it will get worse. Probably back in a full lockdown shortly. Other places who are used a different system are not in our position. We have chosen our path as you wanted and we are now paying for it.
The UK new cases are now over 17,000 today. You have been claiming this has been in control. You cannot just control the virus as you say. You have to stop it getting here just as Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and South Korea have done [Post edited 8 Oct 2020 20:49]
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It's a bit too late to stop it getting here. It's been here since we had 10's of thousands of UK residents coming home from holidays in hotspots.
There is absolutely nothing to compare us to those countries whatsoever.
How many Kiwis were skiing in the Dolomites in March? | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:27 - Oct 8 with 921 views | onehunglow |
Never aid you did but I read masks dont work,which ,for me, is bizarre. Its why medical peolple have always worn masks.
But no,our internet experts know better.
It really does show our stupidity. We have people saying
Virus is exaggerated
Only kill a small percentage
masks dont help.
Its ok to drink in pubs until late hours and crawl over each other ?
Well,Im asking about distancing. That work? If so, then we shouldnt wear masks but keep distance?And washing hands not necessary as you dont get the virus from door handles..
Mankind is truly up its own arse and mainly | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 21:48 - Oct 8 with 905 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:27 - Oct 8 by onehunglow |
Never aid you did but I read masks dont work,which ,for me, is bizarre. Its why medical peolple have always worn masks.
But no,our internet experts know better.
It really does show our stupidity. We have people saying
Virus is exaggerated
Only kill a small percentage
masks dont help.
Its ok to drink in pubs until late hours and crawl over each other ?
Well,Im asking about distancing. That work? If so, then we shouldnt wear masks but keep distance?And washing hands not necessary as you dont get the virus from door handles..
Mankind is truly up its own arse and mainly |
Your last but one sentence is right. Social distancing certainly does work and that is where we should be concentrating. Figures came own through it until the government decided to open borders and pubs. Cases were brought in through holidays then got passed on through people passing it on in houses and pubs. That is what created the start of the second spike.
The likelyhood is that it has spread as students move around the country and living close together so it gets passed on. Just like if you or I were unfortunate enough to catch it then it would spread to our family.
Take Hendrefoilan Student Village as an example. Students are currently living in houses of 7 with a shared kitchen and bathroom. If one has it then it is likely to spread to the others in the house.
The reason medical people wear masks is that they spend longer very close to people and it is far more likely to spread. Also some of the masks offer far more protection than the masks we purchase.
As far as shops are concerned we are rarely next to people for long. You go around picking your goods up and take it to the checkout. Unless you meet someone and have a discussion you are highly unlikely to catch it in a shop. Keeping distance and using sanitiser also helps.
One of the experts from Public Health Wales the other day mentioned that most catch it from people they know and said you would be very unlikely to catch it from a stranger in a shop. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:53 - Oct 8 with 902 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:27 - Oct 8 by onehunglow |
Never aid you did but I read masks dont work,which ,for me, is bizarre. Its why medical peolple have always worn masks.
But no,our internet experts know better.
It really does show our stupidity. We have people saying
Virus is exaggerated
Only kill a small percentage
masks dont help.
Its ok to drink in pubs until late hours and crawl over each other ?
Well,Im asking about distancing. That work? If so, then we shouldnt wear masks but keep distance?And washing hands not necessary as you dont get the virus from door handles..
Mankind is truly up its own arse and mainly |
No Rich
Any mask reduced your virus transmission to another significantly. They don’t protect you that much but a bit. (Unless an FPP3/N95). The link to the news piece in Nature I posted this morning was showing that is pretty conclusive. If we all wore masks and distanced then we would not be having this huge rise.
Rises that match a change do not necessarily mean they are connected. The rise has been on since August. Please carry on wearing a mask. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:56 - Oct 8 with 900 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:48 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
Your last but one sentence is right. Social distancing certainly does work and that is where we should be concentrating. Figures came own through it until the government decided to open borders and pubs. Cases were brought in through holidays then got passed on through people passing it on in houses and pubs. That is what created the start of the second spike.
The likelyhood is that it has spread as students move around the country and living close together so it gets passed on. Just like if you or I were unfortunate enough to catch it then it would spread to our family.
Take Hendrefoilan Student Village as an example. Students are currently living in houses of 7 with a shared kitchen and bathroom. If one has it then it is likely to spread to the others in the house.
The reason medical people wear masks is that they spend longer very close to people and it is far more likely to spread. Also some of the masks offer far more protection than the masks we purchase.
As far as shops are concerned we are rarely next to people for long. You go around picking your goods up and take it to the checkout. Unless you meet someone and have a discussion you are highly unlikely to catch it in a shop. Keeping distance and using sanitiser also helps.
One of the experts from Public Health Wales the other day mentioned that most catch it from people they know and said you would be very unlikely to catch it from a stranger in a shop. |
The point is masks reduce you transmitting to another (massively around 90% gave it take). Protection to the wearer is small. It is an altruistic act that we should all do. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:58 - Oct 8 with 895 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 20:12 - Oct 8 by Scotia |
If only we were a four hour flight from our nearest similar neighbour rather than swimming distance.
We can not keep our borders completely closed and we cannot keep businesses closed. They can all open safely under the correct conditions. It is the fault of every UK government that this hasn't happened.
Your comments on masks and increasing cases don't make sense.
You could say that Wales was last to introduce masks and in the second wave (as the first) we have the highest rate of infection so we should have introduced them sooner. |
I agree fully. Travel quarantine since the summer has been almost pointless and given the levels now is now pointless. It’s political window dressing | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:05 - Oct 8 with 894 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 21:48 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
Your last but one sentence is right. Social distancing certainly does work and that is where we should be concentrating. Figures came own through it until the government decided to open borders and pubs. Cases were brought in through holidays then got passed on through people passing it on in houses and pubs. That is what created the start of the second spike.
The likelyhood is that it has spread as students move around the country and living close together so it gets passed on. Just like if you or I were unfortunate enough to catch it then it would spread to our family.
Take Hendrefoilan Student Village as an example. Students are currently living in houses of 7 with a shared kitchen and bathroom. If one has it then it is likely to spread to the others in the house.
The reason medical people wear masks is that they spend longer very close to people and it is far more likely to spread. Also some of the masks offer far more protection than the masks we purchase.
As far as shops are concerned we are rarely next to people for long. You go around picking your goods up and take it to the checkout. Unless you meet someone and have a discussion you are highly unlikely to catch it in a shop. Keeping distance and using sanitiser also helps.
One of the experts from Public Health Wales the other day mentioned that most catch it from people they know and said you would be very unlikely to catch it from a stranger in a shop. |
Cases almost certainly weren't brought in through holidays. They were on this island already.
I'd guess over 80% of the population of Zante in the summer is from the UK, do you think it is a coincidence that now Brits aren't going there it is no longer on the quarantine list? It was transmitted between between UK residents and was at the time safer to visit than someone from Wrexham going shopping to Liverpool.
Anyone doing anything at a safe distance is safe. That is what we need to ensure. And wear masks. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:39 - Oct 8 with 882 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:05 - Oct 8 by Scotia |
Cases almost certainly weren't brought in through holidays. They were on this island already.
I'd guess over 80% of the population of Zante in the summer is from the UK, do you think it is a coincidence that now Brits aren't going there it is no longer on the quarantine list? It was transmitted between between UK residents and was at the time safer to visit than someone from Wrexham going shopping to Liverpool.
Anyone doing anything at a safe distance is safe. That is what we need to ensure. And wear masks. |
My mother lives in Tenerife in a residential rather than resort area. The Canaries were almost free of virus thanks to strictly enforced measures until tourists and a boat load of infected immigrants from North Africa pitched up illegally and secretively in Gran Canaria. My wife and daughter went out in July and felt far more secure there. The plane journey and airport in the U.K. being the greater risk. It’s absolutely a political decision to appease a certain demographic with no evidence to support efficacy. Parts of Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle and Nottingham are running at Twenty time the level for quarantine cut off. Areas with no restrictions five times higher.
Now we have the focus on students . Again a political move to drive face to face teaching and being on campus forced by the OFS under pressure. It is an absolute shit show. We (Liverpool) have done all we reasonably can, but suspended all but clinical face to face in conjunction with the local director of public health. All too predictable and hardly the fault of 18 year olds expected to make decisions that they should not.
We all have to behave responsibly and really consider actions as individuals and as a country. We can’t afford a long lockdown, equally if not careful we will be so swamped that the economy no longer matters. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:44 - Oct 8 with 878 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:05 - Oct 8 by Scotia |
Cases almost certainly weren't brought in through holidays. They were on this island already.
I'd guess over 80% of the population of Zante in the summer is from the UK, do you think it is a coincidence that now Brits aren't going there it is no longer on the quarantine list? It was transmitted between between UK residents and was at the time safer to visit than someone from Wrexham going shopping to Liverpool.
Anyone doing anything at a safe distance is safe. That is what we need to ensure. And wear masks. |
Public Health Wales have access to track, trace and protect and their evidence says it was and that some of those infected had come home and gone to pubs and passed it on there. There were around 30 who had come back from Zante alone and no doubt others from elsewhere. At the time in Wales we were averaging 15 new cases a day. As they actually have the evidence following questioning the people concerned I will trust their view before yours.
It really doesnt matter whether they contracted it from other British residents or not. The fact is they went to Zante caught it there and then brought it back and spread it. They were cases brought back into Wales from holidays abroad and since that time it has escalated. Fact. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:52 - Oct 8 with 869 views | Professor |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:44 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
Public Health Wales have access to track, trace and protect and their evidence says it was and that some of those infected had come home and gone to pubs and passed it on there. There were around 30 who had come back from Zante alone and no doubt others from elsewhere. At the time in Wales we were averaging 15 new cases a day. As they actually have the evidence following questioning the people concerned I will trust their view before yours.
It really doesnt matter whether they contracted it from other British residents or not. The fact is they went to Zante caught it there and then brought it back and spread it. They were cases brought back into Wales from holidays abroad and since that time it has escalated. Fact. |
The point is, and I agree with Scotia, is that a coach trip to Blackpool would have been as great a risk. The Zante flight clearly had no enforcement of distancing or use of masks. There was no single introduction event originally but more than a 1000 individual outbreaks. I certainly consider pub and restaurant reopening, lack of social distancing and not wearing masks a far greater driver. No to say the Zante flight was not an issue, but more like a bucket of water in the tide | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 23:20 - Oct 8 with 866 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:52 - Oct 8 by Professor |
The point is, and I agree with Scotia, is that a coach trip to Blackpool would have been as great a risk. The Zante flight clearly had no enforcement of distancing or use of masks. There was no single introduction event originally but more than a 1000 individual outbreaks. I certainly consider pub and restaurant reopening, lack of social distancing and not wearing masks a far greater driver. No to say the Zante flight was not an issue, but more like a bucket of water in the tide |
I disagree. It was the bringing back cases from overseas that was the catalyst then compounded by people going into pubs. If you stop cases coming in you can then deal with the ones you already have. It is no coincidence that the countries with the very low rates all closed their borders and this has allowed their businesses to operate in a way ours cant. At the time we were averaging 1 case per 2 local authorities per day. Going back we had 1 new case in Swansea Bay over 5 days in August. There was 1 new case over 8 days in early August in Powys and 1 case over 4 days in Aneurin Bevan. With very low cases there would have been very little spread. Then people brought it back from abroad and it has escalated. Had this not happened we would have gone into September with very low rates meaning very few cases in school but we ruined that by allowing people to bring back cases. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 07:51 - Oct 9 with 836 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 22:44 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
Public Health Wales have access to track, trace and protect and their evidence says it was and that some of those infected had come home and gone to pubs and passed it on there. There were around 30 who had come back from Zante alone and no doubt others from elsewhere. At the time in Wales we were averaging 15 new cases a day. As they actually have the evidence following questioning the people concerned I will trust their view before yours.
It really doesnt matter whether they contracted it from other British residents or not. The fact is they went to Zante caught it there and then brought it back and spread it. They were cases brought back into Wales from holidays abroad and since that time it has escalated. Fact. |
Of course it matters.
If you went to NZ with a rugby club from Gtr Manchester and caught covid who do you think you could have caught it from? A Manc who lives in a highly infected area you have been sitting with for hours or the kiwi (where there is very little virus) who brought you a coffee.
You think the virus was imported from Greece. Whereas it has probably been caught of a fellow Brits. So trips like that didn't bring any extra virus back to the UK just moved it around no different to the trip to Doncaster races or students going back to uni. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 09:44 - Oct 9 with 822 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 07:51 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
Of course it matters.
If you went to NZ with a rugby club from Gtr Manchester and caught covid who do you think you could have caught it from? A Manc who lives in a highly infected area you have been sitting with for hours or the kiwi (where there is very little virus) who brought you a coffee.
You think the virus was imported from Greece. Whereas it has probably been caught of a fellow Brits. So trips like that didn't bring any extra virus back to the UK just moved it around no different to the trip to Doncaster races or students going back to uni. |
The real position is that places like Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent had extremely few cases. Neath Port Talbot went 8 days without a single case. Had people not come back from abroad infected then there would still be very few cases. It was brought back through people travelling abroad and it doesnt matter where those people are from. Also there were very fee cases if any of people being infected through tourism in Wales. When tourism opened the cases still went down. It is when overseas travel and pubs reopened that the cases started spreading again.
You have been the person wanting borders and pubs reopening on the basis that the virus could be controlled. We are now seeing the results of your foolish policies. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 10:28 - Oct 9 with 810 views | Catullus |
| Coronavirus mortality on 23:20 - Oct 8 by exhmrc1 |
I disagree. It was the bringing back cases from overseas that was the catalyst then compounded by people going into pubs. If you stop cases coming in you can then deal with the ones you already have. It is no coincidence that the countries with the very low rates all closed their borders and this has allowed their businesses to operate in a way ours cant. At the time we were averaging 1 case per 2 local authorities per day. Going back we had 1 new case in Swansea Bay over 5 days in August. There was 1 new case over 8 days in early August in Powys and 1 case over 4 days in Aneurin Bevan. With very low cases there would have been very little spread. Then people brought it back from abroad and it has escalated. Had this not happened we would have gone into September with very low rates meaning very few cases in school but we ruined that by allowing people to bring back cases. |
Hang on, if it was British people infecting British people then it wasn't brought back from there, it was taken there from here, surely? If those people were diregarding rules then they probably would have spread the virus here instead of abroad. Your point is fairly moot.
You often say the Uk has been getting it wrong and we should follow what other countries have done, shall I put up a list of all those countries that insist on mask wearing? No, I'll just share this,
https://www.bloomberg.com/news
I'll also point out that other European countries, including Germany were stricter about mask wearing than us back in July,
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2
You keep saying masks don't work yetother countries that had brought wearing them in sooner than us have done better than us. Also, New Zealand, who you often reference, have only recently relaxed mask wearing rules as cases started to drop,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor
Like people keep saying to you, masks don't protect the wearer, they protet other people from you. Masks alone are not the answer but used in combination with the other rules they will help.
A last thought, though we are supposed to wear masks many don't bother and it's not enforced. What if it's those not wearing the masks causing the rise? I had to go to Tesco on Friday and my rough guess was around 1 in 5 had no mask and many didn't worry about distance either.
Maybe (as Onehunglow keeps pointing out) the rise in cases is as much down to human stupidity as anything else? Actually, when I say "maybe" I should add that I believe that is the case.
With this extract,
But some of the countries with the strictest policies on wearing masks are also reporting lowest number of cases per capita. In China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan mask-wearing has become the norm, with some stores refusing entry to those without face covers. A Singaporean study also found cases where patients had spread the virus despite showing no symptoms.
Now even nations that had been steadfast in their opposition to usage by the masses, such as the U.S., have changed their tune as the number of infections linked to local sources with no history of international travel continues to grow. Sources familiar with the White House’s thinking told Bloomberg that it was likely to urge face covers to combat the virus. | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 10:51 - Oct 9 with 800 views | onehunglow |
and yet more stupidity.
On line experts spouting abject unproven bollox and what for?
Last night I aw Andy Burnham,bleeding over pubs closing early. Where,pray tell me is that wrong?
How is it that pubs are seen as pre eminent in our society when throughout history they have colluded with the alcohol , tobacco and gambling to cause domestic carnage over decades. Government are only bothered about how much tax alcohol industry takes from us. Pubs as culture just about sums this country up.
Last night desperate attempts in Glasgow and Edinburgh to get into pubs before they cloe.Why? Desperate.
Nobody has suggested washing hands doesn't prevent infection.Well does it? Any proof it doesn't. What's that-it does,no no masks but wash hands. Take a look at any public toilet and see who doesnt wash hands.
Now distance,is it ok for us all to cwtch up to strangers who might have it? Well,is it.?
It's not? Who says so. It is-2 out of 3 aint bad then.
Right now,we are seeing the alcohol industry subtley taking measures to ensure it can carry on as it always does.Making huge profits out of mug ,like us.
We need to lose 50% of the pubs in this country | |
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| Coronavirus mortality on 10:53 - Oct 9 with 800 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 09:44 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
The real position is that places like Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent had extremely few cases. Neath Port Talbot went 8 days without a single case. Had people not come back from abroad infected then there would still be very few cases. It was brought back through people travelling abroad and it doesnt matter where those people are from. Also there were very fee cases if any of people being infected through tourism in Wales. When tourism opened the cases still went down. It is when overseas travel and pubs reopened that the cases started spreading again.
You have been the person wanting borders and pubs reopening on the basis that the virus could be controlled. We are now seeing the results of your foolish policies. |
They are realistic policies. We have to get the economy moving. Of course they may need to shut again but at least they will have feathered the nest somewhat. Keeping business closed until the virus is gone is absolutely ridiculous and impossible.
Most people have to be able to earn money.
You are putting two and two together and coming up with five. It's not just tourism or pubs it is a cumilation of everything, in fact they are a small part.
The vast majority of cases are from households or workplaces. Just look at the jump with students going back. It was always going to happen. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:21 - Oct 9 with 795 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 10:28 - Oct 9 by Catullus |
Hang on, if it was British people infecting British people then it wasn't brought back from there, it was taken there from here, surely? If those people were diregarding rules then they probably would have spread the virus here instead of abroad. Your point is fairly moot.
You often say the Uk has been getting it wrong and we should follow what other countries have done, shall I put up a list of all those countries that insist on mask wearing? No, I'll just share this,
https://www.bloomberg.com/news
I'll also point out that other European countries, including Germany were stricter about mask wearing than us back in July,
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2
You keep saying masks don't work yetother countries that had brought wearing them in sooner than us have done better than us. Also, New Zealand, who you often reference, have only recently relaxed mask wearing rules as cases started to drop,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor
Like people keep saying to you, masks don't protect the wearer, they protet other people from you. Masks alone are not the answer but used in combination with the other rules they will help.
A last thought, though we are supposed to wear masks many don't bother and it's not enforced. What if it's those not wearing the masks causing the rise? I had to go to Tesco on Friday and my rough guess was around 1 in 5 had no mask and many didn't worry about distance either.
Maybe (as Onehunglow keeps pointing out) the rise in cases is as much down to human stupidity as anything else? Actually, when I say "maybe" I should add that I believe that is the case.
With this extract,
But some of the countries with the strictest policies on wearing masks are also reporting lowest number of cases per capita. In China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan mask-wearing has become the norm, with some stores refusing entry to those without face covers. A Singaporean study also found cases where patients had spread the virus despite showing no symptoms.
Now even nations that had been steadfast in their opposition to usage by the masses, such as the U.S., have changed their tune as the number of infections linked to local sources with no history of international travel continues to grow. Sources familiar with the White House’s thinking told Bloomberg that it was likely to urge face covers to combat the virus. |
The facts dont lie. In Wales the cases dropped from 391 in a day in April to 8 in a day in August. This was done with people not wearing masks in shops. Since people have started wearing masks the cases have now reached over 500 per day. On the day that compulsory maths wearing was brought in there were no new cases in Swansea Bay. Yesterday there 72 following on from 131 the day before. This destroys the myth that people not wearing masks infect others.
One of the consultants to Public Health Wales actually stated a couple of weeks ago that people catch virus from people they know not people they dont and the virus isnt caught in shops but in pubs and peoples homes. This is why Scotland is now closing or putting further restrictions on opening pubs which will doubtless be followed elsewhere in the UK.
There was a report the other day that at 1 metre people catch the virus in 1 minute but at 2 metres it took 15 minutes. The reason it hasnt been spreading in shops is that we are never next to anyone for long enough unlike places like pubs where are next to others for far longer periods.
I wear masks in shops and buses. My personal view is that they are far better protection on buses where people are much closer together but the evidence shows they are not really needed in shops.
Wales chief medical officer who incidentally is English before I am accused of being anti English actually responded to a query about masks being compulsory in England asked a very pertinent question. Why are masks recommended in shops where people pass each other for short times but not in pubs or restaurants where people are closer to others for longer. You can argue about the need to eat or drink but the fact is the closer you are to people for longer periods the more likely you are to get the virus.
England's top scientist and medical advisers were advising against the wearing of masks but were over ruled by Johnson and I suspect Frank Atherton has been over ruled by Drakeford. It is the politicians who believe in mask wearing rather than the medical advisers.
As far as shops are concerned my experience shopping in Tesco and McColls in Pontardawe and the garage locally as well as places like M&S, Wilkos and the Coop in Swansea is that there have been very few not wearing masks since they have been made compulsory. I could probably count on 1 hand the people not wearing them. Wilko's for example have security at the door ensuring that they are worn. I cannot comment on Tesco's where you live. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:25 - Oct 9 with 793 views | Scotia |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:21 - Oct 9 by exhmrc1 |
The facts dont lie. In Wales the cases dropped from 391 in a day in April to 8 in a day in August. This was done with people not wearing masks in shops. Since people have started wearing masks the cases have now reached over 500 per day. On the day that compulsory maths wearing was brought in there were no new cases in Swansea Bay. Yesterday there 72 following on from 131 the day before. This destroys the myth that people not wearing masks infect others.
One of the consultants to Public Health Wales actually stated a couple of weeks ago that people catch virus from people they know not people they dont and the virus isnt caught in shops but in pubs and peoples homes. This is why Scotland is now closing or putting further restrictions on opening pubs which will doubtless be followed elsewhere in the UK.
There was a report the other day that at 1 metre people catch the virus in 1 minute but at 2 metres it took 15 minutes. The reason it hasnt been spreading in shops is that we are never next to anyone for long enough unlike places like pubs where are next to others for far longer periods.
I wear masks in shops and buses. My personal view is that they are far better protection on buses where people are much closer together but the evidence shows they are not really needed in shops.
Wales chief medical officer who incidentally is English before I am accused of being anti English actually responded to a query about masks being compulsory in England asked a very pertinent question. Why are masks recommended in shops where people pass each other for short times but not in pubs or restaurants where people are closer to others for longer. You can argue about the need to eat or drink but the fact is the closer you are to people for longer periods the more likely you are to get the virus.
England's top scientist and medical advisers were advising against the wearing of masks but were over ruled by Johnson and I suspect Frank Atherton has been over ruled by Drakeford. It is the politicians who believe in mask wearing rather than the medical advisers.
As far as shops are concerned my experience shopping in Tesco and McColls in Pontardawe and the garage locally as well as places like M&S, Wilkos and the Coop in Swansea is that there have been very few not wearing masks since they have been made compulsory. I could probably count on 1 hand the people not wearing them. Wilko's for example have security at the door ensuring that they are worn. I cannot comment on Tesco's where you live. |
Wales has the highest infection rate in the UK and was the last to become more strict on mask wearing.
For your point to have any relevance masks would need to be the only variable and it isn't.
I feel like a stuck record. | | | |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:45 - Oct 9 with 787 views | exhmrc1 |
| Coronavirus mortality on 11:25 - Oct 9 by Scotia |
Wales has the highest infection rate in the UK and was the last to become more strict on mask wearing.
For your point to have any relevance masks would need to be the only variable and it isn't.
I feel like a stuck record. |
You completely and continually fail to recognise that the figures you keep referring to were in March, April and early May. From June onwards the rate in Wales was lower than that in England. Even yesterday Wales has 638 new cases which is roughly 13000 UK wide yet the UK figure was 17000. In July and August the Wales rate was lower daily than England usually 1/2 pro rata and sometimes 1/4. This was at a time when Wales weren't wearing masks and England were. There were 8 cases shown on the daily figures by recording date and 5 by test date at the lowest point. When did England show 100 or 160 cases per day. It didnt.
Wales suffered massively at the beginning of the pandemic. The period to compare as to whether masks work or not is the period they were worn elsewhere in the UK and not worn in Wales and during that period the figures were lower daily in Wales. | | | |
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