| Vaccine 16:16 - Nov 9 with 7219 views | britferry |
10 million to be given by end of year, it will prevent Covid in 90%... is the end in sight? |  |
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| Vaccine on 13:35 - Nov 20 with 648 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 12:41 - Nov 20 by Professor |
Thats's a daft statement. It's not binary. Life or death. A colleague of mine in her 40s, very fit and healthy has been laid low for a second time. Prevention is better than cure. The treatments are helping, yes, but this is in the most severe cases. A 50% vaccine is more beneficial for a population than a good ICU therapeutic. |
Not if it does not save the most vulnerable it is not.
At this stage we have no idea of it's effectiveness.
You state that treatments help, but in the majority of cases they are not being used, we have ben though this argument before and nothing much has changed in the UK. [Post edited 21 Nov 2020 11:59]
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| Vaccine on 13:53 - Nov 20 with 633 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 13:35 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
Not if it does not save the most vulnerable it is not.
At this stage we have no idea of it's effectiveness.
You state that treatments help, but in the majority of cases they are not being used, we have ben though this argument before and nothing much has changed in the UK. [Post edited 21 Nov 2020 11:59]
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That's tosh. The treatment has been modified greatly in UK ICUs. Remember the most effective treatment came from the UK studies in dexamethasone. The kinase inhibitors have potential, but the best studies show a reduction in mortality of around 35%. They will not be without potential side effects.
Your last statement to OHL was monumentally stupid. Treatments may well halve mortality, but a vaccine is the ONLY route to control of the pandemic without huge mortality. The long term sequelae including stroke and psychiatric issues are only being discovered now. So lets allow 20,000 cases a day and people to suffer, because we may be able save some with therapeutic agents. Not to mention the cost to people unable to work for weeks or months and the strain and cost on the NHS. Think. | | | |
| Vaccine on 14:31 - Nov 20 with 604 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 13:53 - Nov 20 by Professor |
That's tosh. The treatment has been modified greatly in UK ICUs. Remember the most effective treatment came from the UK studies in dexamethasone. The kinase inhibitors have potential, but the best studies show a reduction in mortality of around 35%. They will not be without potential side effects.
Your last statement to OHL was monumentally stupid. Treatments may well halve mortality, but a vaccine is the ONLY route to control of the pandemic without huge mortality. The long term sequelae including stroke and psychiatric issues are only being discovered now. So lets allow 20,000 cases a day and people to suffer, because we may be able save some with therapeutic agents. Not to mention the cost to people unable to work for weeks or months and the strain and cost on the NHS. Think. |
Rubbish, dexamethasone is no where near the best treatment, just because it came from the Oxford trial you seem to think it is brilliant.
Other doctors in other countries have shown far better results with other drugs.
Classic exaggeration, the cases are coming from a Test that is not accurate and has been rated as not fit for purpose in a court of law.
The track and trace is abysmal, not even finding 60% of the contacts.
What is the current mortality rate when they are not using the best drugs.
The NHS are also not using the prophylactic drugs that available.
The other drugs available not only cut mortality they also cut down on symptoms, reactions of the immune system, need for ICUs and length of stay in hospital.
Everything is being thrown at the Vaccines while people are still dying unecessarily.
I am not anti Vaccine I am pro life and it is currently being wasted by total incompetence. | | | |
| Vaccine on 15:57 - Nov 20 with 600 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 14:31 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
Rubbish, dexamethasone is no where near the best treatment, just because it came from the Oxford trial you seem to think it is brilliant.
Other doctors in other countries have shown far better results with other drugs.
Classic exaggeration, the cases are coming from a Test that is not accurate and has been rated as not fit for purpose in a court of law.
The track and trace is abysmal, not even finding 60% of the contacts.
What is the current mortality rate when they are not using the best drugs.
The NHS are also not using the prophylactic drugs that available.
The other drugs available not only cut mortality they also cut down on symptoms, reactions of the immune system, need for ICUs and length of stay in hospital.
Everything is being thrown at the Vaccines while people are still dying unecessarily.
I am not anti Vaccine I am pro life and it is currently being wasted by total incompetence. |
Because we use an evidence base NOT random internet claims. You are just denigrating our healthcare workers and medical researchers providing the BEST evidence and care.
No doubt we will get the ‘big pharma’ conspiracy again. Of course medics would use prophylactic medicines IF there were evidence to merit it. Clueless | | | |
| Vaccine on 16:39 - Nov 20 with 586 views | onehunglow |
| Vaccine on 14:31 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
Rubbish, dexamethasone is no where near the best treatment, just because it came from the Oxford trial you seem to think it is brilliant.
Other doctors in other countries have shown far better results with other drugs.
Classic exaggeration, the cases are coming from a Test that is not accurate and has been rated as not fit for purpose in a court of law.
The track and trace is abysmal, not even finding 60% of the contacts.
What is the current mortality rate when they are not using the best drugs.
The NHS are also not using the prophylactic drugs that available.
The other drugs available not only cut mortality they also cut down on symptoms, reactions of the immune system, need for ICUs and length of stay in hospital.
Everything is being thrown at the Vaccines while people are still dying unecessarily.
I am not anti Vaccine I am pro life and it is currently being wasted by total incompetence. |
If you are pro life why not try to save people by giving them a vaccine that MIGHT help .
MIGHT is better than not at all.
Frankly,I 'll go with a top line world renowned scientist rather than you. | |
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| Vaccine on 17:54 - Nov 20 with 573 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 16:39 - Nov 20 by onehunglow |
If you are pro life why not try to save people by giving them a vaccine that MIGHT help .
MIGHT is better than not at all.
Frankly,I 'll go with a top line world renowned scientist rather than you. |
Please point out where I have even mentioned "not giving people the Vaccines".
I am not arguing that vaccines are not good, what I am arguing about is that the whole attention is on the new untried vaccines when there are quite a few drugs that should be being used NOW ( and before now) and not keep repeating that nothing can be done but vaccines.
By reducing the symptoms, viral load, time in hospital, ICU use and mortality it will reduce the fear factor.
And that appears to be the whole point of not authorising their use, as Andy would say, everything coming from the so called experts is to keep the public in a panic and justify draconian lockdowns.
Ask yourself this what have they got to lose from using them, I know what the patients have got to lose by not using them, their health and their lives.
Shouldn't they be throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the virus?
ps how do we manage all the illnesses that we do not have vaccines for and the answer is medicine. [Post edited 20 Nov 2020 18:15]
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| Vaccine on 18:08 - Nov 20 with 563 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Vaccine on 14:31 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
Rubbish, dexamethasone is no where near the best treatment, just because it came from the Oxford trial you seem to think it is brilliant.
Other doctors in other countries have shown far better results with other drugs.
Classic exaggeration, the cases are coming from a Test that is not accurate and has been rated as not fit for purpose in a court of law.
The track and trace is abysmal, not even finding 60% of the contacts.
What is the current mortality rate when they are not using the best drugs.
The NHS are also not using the prophylactic drugs that available.
The other drugs available not only cut mortality they also cut down on symptoms, reactions of the immune system, need for ICUs and length of stay in hospital.
Everything is being thrown at the Vaccines while people are still dying unecessarily.
I am not anti Vaccine I am pro life and it is currently being wasted by total incompetence. |
Yes life is being wasted because people still refuse to believe the science that vaccination has saved 100s of millions of lives since they were introduced world wide. | |
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| Vaccine on 18:17 - Nov 20 with 553 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 18:08 - Nov 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes life is being wasted because people still refuse to believe the science that vaccination has saved 100s of millions of lives since they were introduced world wide. |
I agree, it is amazing isn't it?
But life is being wasted because people refuse to believe that Medicines and Immune boosting works as well. | | | |
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| Vaccine on 18:36 - Nov 20 with 546 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 18:17 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
I agree, it is amazing isn't it?
But life is being wasted because people refuse to believe that Medicines and Immune boosting works as well. |
Immune boosting!
No you can't-not without inherent dangers such an increased risk of leukaemia or induction of septic shock. You can maintain function through healthy diet and lifestyle. For some supplements are needed, yes-like Vitamin D. But the idea of immune boosting is the kind of claptrap Gwyneth Paltrow spouts on Gloop.
You also need a healthy microbiome to develop the immune system, and potentially to maintain it. But again a normal diet with plenty of fruit and veg (with variety as much as quantity), not too much booze and certainly no fags, does this for the majority. | | | |
| Vaccine on 18:43 - Nov 20 with 539 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 18:36 - Nov 20 by Professor |
Immune boosting!
No you can't-not without inherent dangers such an increased risk of leukaemia or induction of septic shock. You can maintain function through healthy diet and lifestyle. For some supplements are needed, yes-like Vitamin D. But the idea of immune boosting is the kind of claptrap Gwyneth Paltrow spouts on Gloop.
You also need a healthy microbiome to develop the immune system, and potentially to maintain it. But again a normal diet with plenty of fruit and veg (with variety as much as quantity), not too much booze and certainly no fags, does this for the majority. |
Just vitamin D, how about A, C, B2, B9, B12, E, Zinc, Selenium and omega 3.
Shouldn't the first thing to establish be what your levels are compared to what they should be?
Vitamin C in very high doses are given in the treatment of COVID.
But hey what the hell do I know I am not a doctor or a professor, oh wait I do know how to read though. | | | |
| Vaccine on 18:51 - Nov 20 with 533 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 18:43 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
Just vitamin D, how about A, C, B2, B9, B12, E, Zinc, Selenium and omega 3.
Shouldn't the first thing to establish be what your levels are compared to what they should be?
Vitamin C in very high doses are given in the treatment of COVID.
But hey what the hell do I know I am not a doctor or a professor, oh wait I do know how to read though. |
YES-THEY ARE ALL MICRONUTRIENTS FFS! Needed for normal function. Vitamin C is water soluble and excess goes when you micturate.
Yes, there are reasons for its use in treatment, but 5 a day should give you all you need. Its a myth started by Linus Pauling that won't go away that high vitamin C has some booster effect.
After all I have only worked on Infection Immunology in people and animals for 31 years, so what would I know? | | | |
| Vaccine on 18:59 - Nov 20 with 532 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 18:51 - Nov 20 by Professor |
YES-THEY ARE ALL MICRONUTRIENTS FFS! Needed for normal function. Vitamin C is water soluble and excess goes when you micturate.
Yes, there are reasons for its use in treatment, but 5 a day should give you all you need. Its a myth started by Linus Pauling that won't go away that high vitamin C has some booster effect.
After all I have only worked on Infection Immunology in people and animals for 31 years, so what would I know? |
"5 a day SHOULD give you all you need."
Well not in my Son's case his Vitamin B12 was way below the current accepted threshold, it required Injections to bring it in line and keep it correct.
So without testing how the hell would you know what is required.
It is like the UK attitude towards women's HRT, they just chuck hormones at them.
In Australia they monitor their normal hormone levels and when they reach menopause they adjust them back to where they were.
So just how much of your experience with Immunology has been with humans and how long ago?
So you do not accept the usefullness of Vitamin C or D treatment for COVID then? | | | |
| Vaccine on 19:16 - Nov 20 with 522 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 18:59 - Nov 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
"5 a day SHOULD give you all you need."
Well not in my Son's case his Vitamin B12 was way below the current accepted threshold, it required Injections to bring it in line and keep it correct.
So without testing how the hell would you know what is required.
It is like the UK attitude towards women's HRT, they just chuck hormones at them.
In Australia they monitor their normal hormone levels and when they reach menopause they adjust them back to where they were.
So just how much of your experience with Immunology has been with humans and how long ago?
So you do not accept the usefullness of Vitamin C or D treatment for COVID then? |
I said about the Vitamin c therapeutic use already. What I put to you is taking high dose vitamins is not going to stop an infection. A vaccine can.
I still work on human salmonellosis, but very much a side project with my colleagues in Malawi where we have a major research centre. But as I said I am mainly an experimental person.
Most is related to reducing zoonotic pathogens in poultry through genetics, vaccines and modulating the Microbiome in young animals. Some of this work also models human infection where there is not a good mammalian model. Most immune function is common to birds and mammals which suggests this evolved around 300-220 million years ago where evolutionary divergence
Of mammals, aves and dinosauria occurred | | | |
| Vaccine on 19:27 - Nov 20 with 519 views | Neath_Jack |
| Vaccine on 19:16 - Nov 20 by Professor |
I said about the Vitamin c therapeutic use already. What I put to you is taking high dose vitamins is not going to stop an infection. A vaccine can.
I still work on human salmonellosis, but very much a side project with my colleagues in Malawi where we have a major research centre. But as I said I am mainly an experimental person.
Most is related to reducing zoonotic pathogens in poultry through genetics, vaccines and modulating the Microbiome in young animals. Some of this work also models human infection where there is not a good mammalian model. Most immune function is common to birds and mammals which suggests this evolved around 300-220 million years ago where evolutionary divergence
Of mammals, aves and dinosauria occurred |
Prof, why do you waste your time, seriously? |  |
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| Vaccine on 19:49 - Nov 20 with 507 views | onehunglow |
| Vaccine on 19:27 - Nov 20 by Neath_Jack |
Prof, why do you waste your time, seriously? |
Because he is a good man and one who actually educates people.Some dont want to listen though | |
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| Vaccine on 20:27 - Nov 20 with 498 views | Professor |
| Vaccine on 19:27 - Nov 20 by Neath_Jack |
Prof, why do you waste your time, seriously? |
What OHL says. We have a duty to at least try to inform. I don’t have a horse in the Covid race, but have friends and colleagues deeply involved in the basic virology,
Immunology, effects on the nervous system and on the basic public health messages. They deserve
to be fairly represented | | | |
| Vaccine on 20:36 - Nov 20 with 488 views | onehunglow |
I have now lost 4 good friends directly to covid so Im really getting angry over the way we try to skate around the issue-how to prevent it/how to treat it.
It will be solved by scientists;God Bless em.
Jeez,come to think of it,I d rather be treated by a doctor than by a fans dad who seems a barrackroom immuneologist. | |
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| Vaccine on 20:50 - Nov 20 with 484 views | jack2jack |
There was an article on Sky news today, and they showed a bottle containing a vaccine for nCov-19 the date on the bottle was 15th March 2020.
Does that mean the vaccine was ready on or before this date. Would be interested to know. |  | | |
| Vaccine on 20:54 - Nov 20 with 482 views | Neath_Jack |
| Vaccine on 20:50 - Nov 20 by jack2jack |
There was an article on Sky news today, and they showed a bottle containing a vaccine for nCov-19 the date on the bottle was 15th March 2020.
Does that mean the vaccine was ready on or before this date. Would be interested to know. |
Or was it the date that that particular trial started? | |
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| Vaccine on 20:58 - Nov 20 with 477 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 20:36 - Nov 20 by onehunglow |
I have now lost 4 good friends directly to covid so Im really getting angry over the way we try to skate around the issue-how to prevent it/how to treat it.
It will be solved by scientists;God Bless em.
Jeez,come to think of it,I d rather be treated by a doctor than by a fans dad who seems a barrackroom immuneologist. |
Would you rather be treated by a doctor in a country with a mortality rate of 0.3. or 0.4 or 0.9 or 10 or 15 deaths/million or one with a rate of 798 deaths/million. | | | |
| Vaccine on 21:03 - Nov 20 with 473 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Vaccine on 20:54 - Nov 20 by Neath_Jack |
Or was it the date that that particular trial started? |
It was probably when the first batches were made for the trials.
The one in the USA completed a shortened trial in October but was not announced until November. | | | |
| Vaccine on 21:04 - Nov 20 with 473 views | jack2jack |
| Vaccine on 20:54 - Nov 20 by Neath_Jack |
Or was it the date that that particular trial started? |
But we went on lockdown on the 23rd of March, and Hancock had said that we were safe as it wouldn't get here,can't remember the date he said that.
Anyway, how the hell were they trailing the vaccine as far back as that, that means the vaccine was being prepared, let say for the sake of argument, before the new year or earlier, someone's feeding us copious amounts of manure somewhere. | | | |
| Vaccine (n/t) on 21:09 - Nov 20 with 470 views | Flashberryjack |
| Vaccine on 20:50 - Nov 20 by jack2jack |
There was an article on Sky news today, and they showed a bottle containing a vaccine for nCov-19 the date on the bottle was 15th March 2020.
Does that mean the vaccine was ready on or before this date. Would be interested to know. |
[Post edited 20 Nov 2020 21:18]
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| Vaccine on 21:12 - Nov 20 with 451 views | A_Fans_Dad |
OOPs, someone has broken the post. | | | |
| Vaccine on 21:17 - Nov 20 with 442 views | Neath_Jack |
| Vaccine on 21:04 - Nov 20 by jack2jack |
But we went on lockdown on the 23rd of March, and Hancock had said that we were safe as it wouldn't get here,can't remember the date he said that.
Anyway, how the hell were they trailing the vaccine as far back as that, that means the vaccine was being prepared, let say for the sake of argument, before the new year or earlier, someone's feeding us copious amounts of manure somewhere. |
No idea when they would have started, but just found this (its from wiki by the way)
"The rapidly growing infection rate of COVID‑19 worldwide during early 2020 stimulated international alliances and government efforts to urgently organize resources to make multiple vaccines on shortened timelines,[9] with four vaccine candidates entering human evaluation in March (see the table of clinical trials started in 2020, below)." | |
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