Forum | Has the world been conned over COVID-19? by A_Fans_Dad

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? 09:53 - Dec 13 with 33442 views

The actions of Governments all over the world are shaped on the basis of the PCR COVID test results.
For months now there have been serious question marks over the accuracy of the tests.
Well now there is a definitive study on the original research and it's world wide adoption which is totally condemning.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/

This does not decry the deaths that occur with COVID-19, but there are also many questions over the counting of them as well.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:26 - Dec 23 with 4134 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 18:51 - Dec 23 by exhmrc1

There are many problems associated with splitting hospitals for covid and non covid. Both need ICU so you would need to split the ICU staff. What happens if a non covid patient shows with it. You then have to transfer how many as others will have caught it. What about if staff in the non covid hospitals catch it. It will already have spread as has been happening in care homes and hospitals. Idont think these will have theatres. Will the non covid patients have to go covid hospitals for theatres. What about specialities like burns, cardiac, children, maternity etc

Perhaps testing them before they go to non covid hospitals would help.

I am not trying to re-invent the wheel here, it is the way that the World handled Infectious deseases before Vaccines got most of them under control.
Nightingales could have surgical units

https://www.portakabin.com/gb-
https://odulair.com/mobile-sur
http://www.johnsonmedical.com/

They also have scanners, my son's MRI was done in a portable unit.

Yes what about all those other patients, at the moment they have go to hotbeds of COVID infection and you actually think that is better?

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:27 - Dec 23 with 4134 views

Groo

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:07 - Dec 23 by shingle
750 UK 23 Sweden been this way for months no charts are going to change that i`m afraid, you do know these death rate figures come from an independent and official world Covid site Worldometers, surely you are old enough to try stop being taken in by Journals and newspapers.

oh and for you information the death rate per million population (a better value to compare with) comes from your precious Worldometer.

So you make simple mistakes, compare a sparsely populated Country to a densely populated Country, don't compare to neighbours and count total deaths not the deaths per population.

Groo does what Groo does best

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:40 - Dec 23 with 4105 views

exhmrc1

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:26 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad

It isnt just some portable stuff. It is the really specialised stuff used in cardiology and burns in Morriston or eyes in Singleton.

Cwm Cartref nursing home had staff tested every week. They found 1 member of staff tested and it ended up with 35 patients with covid and over 50 members of staff. 1 member of staff being found positive led to 14 residents dying. It is fine in principle but not so easy in practice. They are segregated in hospitals now. A couple of months ago there were cases in the cardiology wards. A patient brought in for say a heart attack or a staff member working there can contract covid and then it spreads. Almost impossible to stop as you dont know initially you have it and by the time you do it has already spread

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:44 - Dec 23 with 4100 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:40 - Dec 23 by exhmrc1

So, it worked before when we had Isolation Hospitals quite well all over the country and now it doesn't.
OK.

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:49 - Dec 23 with 4098 views

A_Fans_Dad

More on the nightingales.

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 20:08 - Dec 23 with 4090 views

exhmrc1

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:44 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad
So, it worked before when we had Isolation Hospitals quite well all over the country and now it doesn't. OK.

When we had isolation hospitals years ago they were small places. Take Hill House as an example. Today there are 312 patients in Swansea Bay Hospitals. We didnt have specialised burns or cardiac departments in those days. You need to keep those in Morriston due to their speicialities. There are approx 30 ICU beds in Morriston to cover covid and no covid patients. They have turned the old outpatiens area into ICU'S. You cannot use Singleton as it has specialised cancer facilities. The only choice you are left with is to use the Bay Hospital as a covid hospital. What happens about the seriously ill covid patients then. You cant transfer then into ICU because Morriston would be a non covid hospital.

My wife's friend's husband is going for cancer treatment. An ambulance picks him up takes him there and back. After he has been transported the ambulance has to go back for deep cleaning.

This really isnt as simple as you make out. There are major problems with having separate hospitals for covid and non covid even without the staffing problems.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 20:51 - Dec 23 with 4069 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 20:08 - Dec 23 by exhmrc1

I am sure it wouldn't be easy, but none of that is insurmountable.
Like I said you would need to add IC Units to the Bay Hospital, except of course it has gone.
You look at all the negatives which could be overcome with proper planning and finances.
Which mostly precludes it workingin the UK because for at least 3 years their planning has been abysmal where Pandemics are concered.

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:07 - Dec 23 with 4060 views

controversial_jack

All patients have to be admitted through A&E and tested there before admittance to any ward.The only one is at Morriston, so whatever happens they would have to be transferred via ambulance.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:20 - Dec 23 with 4056 views

exhmrc1

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 20:51 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad
I am sure it wouldn't be easy, but none of that is insurmountable. Like I said you would need to add IC Units to the Bay Hospital, except of course it has gone. You look at all the negatives which could be overcome with proper planning and finances. Which mostly precludes it workingin the UK because for at least 3 years their planning has been abysmal where Pandemics are concered.

The Bay Hospital hasnt gone. They are using it for blood tests. My sister was there today. They are using it as a mass vaccination centre. It opened on Monday. There is going to be a problem staffing it and originally it was going to be used for people to stay until they were well enough to go home whether that be covid or non covid patients. You still have the problem of transferring patients when the ambulance service is currently over stretched.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:45 - Dec 23 with 4037 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:07 - Dec 23 by controversial_jack
All patients have to be admitted through A&E and tested there before admittance to any ward.The only one is at Morriston, so whatever happens they would have to be transferred via ambulance.

Why does the A&E have to be in one place, there used to be one in every hospital, centralisation is one of the problems that created the current situation.
People with covid symptoms can be tested anywhere before being assigned to hospital.
The problem is everyone continues to think with the way things are compared to the way that would work better.
Even the designs of major hospitals with central corridors is wrong when epidemics are in play.
But what do I know, other than remembering what it was like 60 years ago.

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 22:15 - Dec 23 with 4024 views

majorraglan

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:45 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad

We certainly need to rethink our approach to health care provision gong forward.

A and E’s have centralised them because they have become so complex, need specialist knowledge ( minor injuries units apart) and are very expensive to run. Also, recruiting doctors to work in the smaller, less specialised units can be more difficult because a lot of young doctors want to work on the cutting edge of medicine in centres of excellence. I seem to recall Betsi Cadwaladr have linked in with Stoke Hospital to deliver specialised A and E care in North Wales.

PPH in Llanelli have down graded their A and E to a Minor Injuries Unit to save money, I think Port Talbot Hospital have done the same and there was uproar when they tried to shut down an A and E up around Llantrisant way a few months ago.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 22:50 - Dec 23 with 4010 views

exhmrc1

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 21:45 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad

Years ago we had 2 major hospitals in Swansea which could both be put into the Morriston Hospital of today. We didnt have a specialised burns unit or a cardiac centre. People with burns had to go to Chepstow and I dont really know where cardiac patients went. Today there are 10 cardiologists in Morriston. 20 years ago there were 3. Time has moved on and treatments are far better than they were.

I spoke to an old school friend a couple of years ago who outlined how difficult it was getting staff to go to places like Glangwili. The young up and coming specialists of today are looking at going into the big hospitals with lots of specialities. He was saying how difficult it was to attract the really good doctors west of Swansea.

He spoke about the closure of Prince Phillip in Llanelli casualty. One of the problems was that it wasnt safe to keep it open due to staffing difficulties. At one of the public meetings he attended one woman had said she would rather be dead in Prince Phillip than being kept alive in Glangwili. They couldnt believe what she had said and asked her what did she juts say and she repeated it again. My mate was a senior manager before retirement.

When I was in hospital in the cardiac unit in Morriston they brought a guy in the next bed from Withybush. He kept telling me he couldnt believe doctors were there at night and weekends. He said that didnt happen in Withybush.

The reality is that there are staffing problems everywhere in the health service and finding the staff for another temporary 1000 bed hospital bigger than Morriston wasnt going to happen.

They have split Morriston A&E into 2 separate areas for covid. There are covid and non covid wards. They have turned the outpatient area into a further 100 beds.

What is not going to change is staff getting covid and bringing it in unknown and that is a problem even if somehow you had separate hospitals.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:39 - Dec 24 with 3962 views

Scotia

Staffing is definitely an issue, my friends who work there have been placed by the NHS rather than applied to work here. Neither are originally from Wales but love it here and want to stay, but at this stage of their career don't get much choice. In fact one has just been moved to the Heath in Cardiff.

It would be great to have Covid only hospitals, it makes sense, but we just haven't got the staff.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:48 - Dec 24 with 3959 views

Andy1300

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:39 - Dec 24 by Scotia

So why waste all that money building the nightingales?

Number 1 team in Wales

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 08:22 - Dec 24 with 3951 views

Scotia

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:48 - Dec 24 by Andy1300
So why waste all that money building the nightingales?

I think it was a PR stunt by the government.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 08:31 - Dec 24 with 3946 views

majorraglan

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:48 - Dec 24 by Andy1300
So why waste all that money building the nightingales?

I think a couple of the Welsh Nightingales are being used, but for patients who are recovering and who’ve been moved out of main hospitals to make space, those individuals need lower levels of care.
I suspect the facilities were opened in a panic after we saw those horrendous images from Italy where people were dying in corridors and what looked like factories. The recruiting of volunteers assisted, but there aren’t many people who’d volunteer indefinitely especially if they were putting themselves at increased risk, for example they were older.

The initial lockdown served its purpose which was flattening the curve, we are currently in an upward trajectory, increased numbers of wards in local hospitals have Covid patients.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 10:31 - Dec 24 with 3909 views

Dr_Winston

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 07:48 - Dec 24 by Andy1300
So why waste all that money building the nightingales?

Probably because they'd have been absolutely pilloried if they hadn't.

Everyone saw the images from Italy of people lying in hospital corridors. There was a huge panic about capacity (and ventilators) that the Govt had little choice but to react to.

Fortunately that never became a major issue in the UK, probably because everything else got cancelled (which will probably also cost lives), new treatments developed etc. The NHS was stretched to the limits but it didn't break.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:25 - Dec 24 with 3893 views

Catullus

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:44 - Dec 23 by A_Fans_Dad
So, it worked before when we had Isolation Hospitals quite well all over the country and now it doesn't. OK.

Actually it didn't work too well in the last global pandemic, did it. The 1918 pandemic lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 years and killed around 500 million.

Interestingly social distancing helped but when it was relaxed things got bad again and the 2nd and 3rd waves were worse.

https://www.britannica.com/sto

So modern medical practises are much better even without isolation hopsitals.

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:40 - Dec 24 with 3877 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:25 - Dec 24 by Catullus
Actually it didn't work too well in the last global pandemic, did it. The 1918 pandemic lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 years and killed around 500 million. Interestingly social distancing helped but when it was relaxed things got bad again and the 2nd and 3rd waves were worse. https://www.britannica.com/sto So modern medical practises are much better even without isolation hopsitals.

They didn't even have Hot running water, Antiseptics, Anti-biotics, Resuscitation Equipment, let alone ICUs and all the modern things hospitals have now.
They all had compromised immune systems after 4 years of world war, their average life span was not much more than half ours.
Hardly an adequate or fair comparsion is it?

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:57 - Dec 24 with 3865 views

Catullus

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:40 - Dec 24 by A_Fans_Dad
They didn't even have Hot running water, Antiseptics, Anti-biotics, Resuscitation Equipment, let alone ICUs and all the modern things hospitals have now. They all had compromised immune systems after 4 years of world war, their average life span was not much more than half ours. Hardly an adequate or fair comparsion is it?

It's the only comparison we have. How can you say isolation hospitals worked when we haven't had anything on this scale to compare it to.

You forget, people are highly infectious in the 3-4 days before showing symptoms. That's what drives the spread. Isolating only works if staff are isolated too. If those staff are going home and spreading it to families before they know theyve got it and those families spread it out in the community it doesn't work.

Isolation, in my opinion, will work in areas where the disease incubates and kills very quickly. So Ebola, isoaltion works in Africa because people don't get very far before they keel over. In a more densely populated area with people travelling further than we used to for work and play the things that work best are proper lockdowns, social disatncing and plenty of handwashing/not touching faces, wearing masks and not being a selfish dick when out and about!

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 12:03 - Dec 24 with 3856 views

Neath_Jack

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:25 - Dec 24 by Catullus
Actually it didn't work too well in the last global pandemic, did it. The 1918 pandemic lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 years and killed around 500 million. Interestingly social distancing helped but when it was relaxed things got bad again and the 2nd and 3rd waves were worse. https://www.britannica.com/sto So modern medical practises are much better even without isolation hopsitals.

I watched a 3 part documentary this week on The Great Plague, was interesting to see that even back then, distancing and isolation was the order of the day. Good series, think it was on channel 5.

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Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 12:54 - Dec 24 with 3843 views

Catullus

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 12:03 - Dec 24 by Neath_Jack
I watched a 3 part documentary this week on The Great Plague, was interesting to see that even back then, distancing and isolation was the order of the day. Good series, think it was on channel 5.

I've recorded it. No one else here wants to watch it so it'll be for when they are in bed.

Distancing and isolation yes, it shows that it can work and also that when you relax the rules too soon it all goes bad again. We should have learned that by now.

Of course in the great plague they didn't know it was fleas spreading the disease and even towns where nobody was allowed out or in were ravaged by something as simple as a delivery of food and clothes. Once the infected critters were in it was too late.

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 14:35 - Dec 24 with 3817 views

A_Fans_Dad

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 11:57 - Dec 24 by Catullus

Which is not much of a comparison is it. They couldn't do testing and track & trace (but then neither can we very well).
I have never said that Quarantine was the only answer, just a major part of it, just like boosted immune systems and using every possible medicine.
Which is something else we haven't and aren't doing.
The speed of transport is much higher now, but the idea of quarantine still works.
Ask New Zealand they will tell you, but we don't even do that instead we do "self Isolation" which of course is totally voluntary.
Old style medicine mixed with new Medical ability should be doing a much better job than we are doing.
Make as many excuses as you like Quarantine has and always will make sense, your "distancing" is just a small part of it.
But it should have been used right from before the start. ie when it was announced in China, but there was no will and very little in the way of facilities left.

[Post edited 25 Dec 2020 9:49]

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 18:43 - Dec 24 with 3793 views

shingle

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 19:27 - Dec 23 by Groo
oh and for you information the death rate per million population (a better value to compare with) comes from your precious Worldometer. So you make simple mistakes, compare a sparsely populated Country to a densely populated Country, don't compare to neighbours and count total deaths not the deaths per population.

Deaths today in Sweden 17 and nearly 600 here, same old story day after day month after month, you must see these figures every day and think blimey its taking them months to publish the back date figures i saw on a few of my charts, anyway what you think of the lives they have saved by continuing normal medical procedures you never mention that statistic, goes over your head no doubt or surely you would have found some chart out there you to try and convince us that is false as well.

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 18:56 - Dec 24 with 3785 views

Groo

Has the world been conned over COVID-19? on 18:43 - Dec 24 by shingle

Your obviously extremely thick.

YOU CANNOT COMPARE THE UK TO SWEDEN.

For a number of reasons.

Compare apples to apples, not pears.

What do you think the death rate would be in the UK, if the UK did the same?

Sweden is 10 times more than their neighbours.

France is UK's neighbour, France is sat at 953 deaths per million, lets be kind and say 5 times, the UK's death rate could be as high as 5000 per million, 5 times higher than current level.

Groo does what Groo does best

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