| “We need to rotate” 19:32 - Mar 20 with 13075 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Can we stop with that nonsense now please, and realise the fact that we have an incredibly front loaded and lop sided squad.
Bidwell looked like a player that had been rotated, no sharpness and no fluidity and about 3 yards off the pace. Whittaker for all his effort has nowhere near the physical attributes to be playing at this level yet, he showed what he could be at times and is going to be a very good player I have no doubt, but he was knocked off the ball every time he was challenged and we gave up possession far too easily. Naughton is not a centre back and what benefits he may give us when we have the ball sadly we lose without it, we were dominated in the air in both boxes.
We need to play our best team and accept we will be tired at times, that’s the nature of football when you don’t have a big squad full of quality. Which is something we don’t have despite many pretending otherwise.
I am full of praise for the management team and their achievements thus far but one area where I feel disappointed in is I don’t think they have blocked out the noise efficiently enough. To me, it looks like they have allowed desperate opinion to be picked up by journalists and has allowed that to permeate their decision making. This latest game seems to be the epitome of that. It was a disjointed game with what looked like a cobbled together team.
Cabango, Lowe and Smith have to start. |  |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:57 - Mar 23 with 825 views | onehunglow |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:51 - Mar 23 by Thornburyswan |
Decently presented debate Dr - a tad pedantic at times but well debated nonetheless.
As we all know there are lies, dam lies & then statistics so keeping that in mind & noting that I, like you, cannot absolutely know Cooper’s thinking for me he uses Nauts ahead of Cabango as the RCB for a number of reasons (particularly in the tougher games):-
1. Nauts overall experience & ability to slot into the RB space if/when we lose the ball & Roberts is caught upfield vs a breakaway.
2. Nauts greater comfort on/with the ball in tight situations.
3. Possibly but acknowledge I’m less convinced on this one better fit with the other 2 CBs & Grimes ahead of them.
All that said I personally would prefer we started Cabango for the remaining games with Guehi (as clearly our best CB) plus one other as he adds physical presence, a threat at set pieces as already proven plus both Nauts & Guehi are both likely to exit come the end of the season so let’s start getting that sorted now. |
Greater comfort on the ball?
You what?
I 'll leave you and Chrissy to it. |  |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:58 - Mar 23 with 841 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:51 - Mar 23 by Thornburyswan |
Decently presented debate Dr - a tad pedantic at times but well debated nonetheless.
As we all know there are lies, dam lies & then statistics so keeping that in mind & noting that I, like you, cannot absolutely know Cooper’s thinking for me he uses Nauts ahead of Cabango as the RCB for a number of reasons (particularly in the tougher games):-
1. Nauts overall experience & ability to slot into the RB space if/when we lose the ball & Roberts is caught upfield vs a breakaway.
2. Nauts greater comfort on/with the ball in tight situations.
3. Possibly but acknowledge I’m less convinced on this one better fit with the other 2 CBs & Grimes ahead of them.
All that said I personally would prefer we started Cabango for the remaining games with Guehi (as clearly our best CB) plus one other as he adds physical presence, a threat at set pieces as already proven plus both Nauts & Guehi are both likely to exit come the end of the season so let’s start getting that sorted now. |
Having more possession with Cabango in the position isn't necessarily saying he is better on the ball, it doesn't have to be as one dimensional as that.
He could be far more efficient in his defensive duties meaning he wins the ball back quicker and gets it to the likes of Roberts and Bidwell to start the passages of play. Breaks down opposition attacks simply by better positional awareness and natural CB instincts, meaning the ball spends less time in our defensive third.
It could be any number of things, but what we do know is we are a more effective possession based team with him in the side. Why that is precisely, is up for debate. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 10:00]
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| “We need to rotate” on 12:32 - Mar 23 with 779 views | Badlands |
A back three has been worked by other teams, especially with the shockingly pedestrian midfield.
Plan B
Back 4 with two full backs and two CBs. |  |
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| “We need to rotate” on 13:09 - Mar 23 with 772 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:32 - Mar 23 by Badlands |
A back three has been worked by other teams, especially with the shockingly pedestrian midfield.
Plan B
Back 4 with two full backs and two CBs. |
Would take away our biggest/only threats in Roberts and Bidwell/Manning but I wouldn't be against us trying something new, far from it. |  | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:53 - Mar 23 with 758 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:32 - Mar 23 by Badlands |
A back three has been worked by other teams, especially with the shockingly pedestrian midfield.
Plan B
Back 4 with two full backs and two CBs. |
We’ve been playing it for a year. It only got ‘worked out’ when we added CH to the midfield and slowed ourselves down.
Bit of a break, come back with energised players and revert to the second half team against Cardiff, I’m sure we’ll do ok. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 15:23 - Mar 23 with 738 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:53 - Mar 23 by jack247 |
We’ve been playing it for a year. It only got ‘worked out’ when we added CH to the midfield and slowed ourselves down.
Bit of a break, come back with energised players and revert to the second half team against Cardiff, I’m sure we’ll do ok. |
Agree this break has come at right time. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 16:24 - Mar 23 with 726 views | vetchonian |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:53 - Mar 23 by jack247 |
We’ve been playing it for a year. It only got ‘worked out’ when we added CH to the midfield and slowed ourselves down.
Bit of a break, come back with energised players and revert to the second half team against Cardiff, I’m sure we’ll do ok. |
People keep saying we have been worked out and our wing backs have been neutralised yet our equaliser at Stoke came from the wingbacks...cross by Manning and header by Roberts.
I think the "pressure" is starting to tell plus as many have said the midfield has been thrown out of balance since Hourihane has arrived.
Cooper is accused of having no plan B yet is criticisied for using Roberts long throw....
Maybe Cooper is sticking rigidly to "the system" as the schedule does not allow sufficient time between games to work on tactics...
Look at this month awat to Stoke Wednesday evening I expect we dont back to Swansea until early hours of Thursday morning doubt they train then maybe a session on Friday before playing Boro at home Saturday then a trip to Blackburn on Tuesday again not getting baCK to Swansea until early hours of Wednesday maybe train Thursday and Friday before heading to Luton for lunchtime kick off Saturday..possible train Sundayand Monday before Bournemouth Tuesday. Get back earky hours of WEdnesday possibly Thursday and Friday before Cardiff game.
Not a lot of time between fixtures to work on differnt shapes etc and remember a very short close season this year too. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 18:20 - Mar 23 with 703 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 16:24 - Mar 23 by vetchonian |
People keep saying we have been worked out and our wing backs have been neutralised yet our equaliser at Stoke came from the wingbacks...cross by Manning and header by Roberts.
I think the "pressure" is starting to tell plus as many have said the midfield has been thrown out of balance since Hourihane has arrived.
Cooper is accused of having no plan B yet is criticisied for using Roberts long throw....
Maybe Cooper is sticking rigidly to "the system" as the schedule does not allow sufficient time between games to work on tactics...
Look at this month awat to Stoke Wednesday evening I expect we dont back to Swansea until early hours of Thursday morning doubt they train then maybe a session on Friday before playing Boro at home Saturday then a trip to Blackburn on Tuesday again not getting baCK to Swansea until early hours of Wednesday maybe train Thursday and Friday before heading to Luton for lunchtime kick off Saturday..possible train Sundayand Monday before Bournemouth Tuesday. Get back earky hours of WEdnesday possibly Thursday and Friday before Cardiff game.
Not a lot of time between fixtures to work on differnt shapes etc and remember a very short close season this year too. |
I agree with you. The schedule also means teams have less time to prepare to play against us. It’s one thing working it out, it’s another having time to practice pressing high to neutralise our wingbacks.
Honestly believe it’s a combination of the wrong mix in midfield and fatigue creeping in for the likes of Ayew and Roberts who start every game, Lowe who did until after it was obvious he needed a break and (though I haven’t really seen it with him) Grimes, who did start a few games on the bench, but that seems a long time ago now.
My worry at the moment is CR, who is often still sprinting at the end of games, not getting the break the rest of them do. | | | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 20:54 - Apr 6 with 579 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 17:57 - Mar 22 by Dr_Parnassus |
My point is obvious.
Cabango in the box stops that melee more times than Naughton in the box. |
Different defender, same result off the long throw. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 01:23 - Apr 7 with 547 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 20:54 - Apr 6 by 34dfgdf54 |
Different defender, same result off the long throw. |
Did you think I said we would never concede a goal with Cabango in the box or something?
I said we concede a ball into the box more times if Naughton is there than if Cabango is. It’s simple common sense.
One is a 5 foot 9 right back who is poor in the air, the other a 6 foot 2 centre back who is excellent in the air.
I understand you like to disagree with everything I say to please the newly formed clique, but this ditching of fact and common sense really doesn’t reflect well on things as when you do actually have a point people will assume you are saying it for the effect and not the substance.... like the Americans didn’t bring in Bob Bradley. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 06:30 - Apr 7 with 532 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 01:23 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Did you think I said we would never concede a goal with Cabango in the box or something?
I said we concede a ball into the box more times if Naughton is there than if Cabango is. It’s simple common sense.
One is a 5 foot 9 right back who is poor in the air, the other a 6 foot 2 centre back who is excellent in the air.
I understand you like to disagree with everything I say to please the newly formed clique, but this ditching of fact and common sense really doesn’t reflect well on things as when you do actually have a point people will assume you are saying it for the effect and not the substance.... like the Americans didn’t bring in Bob Bradley. |
Not sure what you’re talking about to be honest doc, this was a discussion between me and you. You seem to have a bit of an obsession with 9MH.
Doesn’t much seem like common sense does it? As everything you are saying seems to be wrong. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:21 - Apr 7 with 470 views | jack247 |
In the set up we had against Preston, I’d play Cabango every time.
In the 532, he’s not even competing with Naughton, it’s between him and Bennett for the central spot. Guehi, Naughton and Latabaudiere for the other two. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:58 - Apr 7 with 454 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:21 - Apr 7 by jack247 |
In the set up we had against Preston, I’d play Cabango every time.
In the 532, he’s not even competing with Naughton, it’s between him and Bennett for the central spot. Guehi, Naughton and Latabaudiere for the other two. |
Agreed. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:18 - Apr 7 with 448 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 10:58 - Apr 7 by 34dfgdf54 |
Clutching at straws there, Cabango had a 63.6% pass accuracy, mainly as tried 8 long balls with only 4 successful.
No slight on Ben, I thought he played well, but I also know what he is good at, and what he isn't as good at. |
No clutching at anything, just stating facts. When Cabango is in the side we have more possession than when we don’t. Could be due to him being more efficient in defence meaning we win the ball back quicker... but we have been through this on the previous pages.
You don’t have to like the fact, but it’s a fact all the same. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 12:21 - Apr 7 with 444 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:21 - Apr 7 by jack247 |
In the set up we had against Preston, I’d play Cabango every time.
In the 532, he’s not even competing with Naughton, it’s between him and Bennett for the central spot. Guehi, Naughton and Latabaudiere for the other two. |
Not for me. Cabango every single time, in a 4 or a 3, in the centre or the right of centre. He’s roughly played the same amount of games in centre of the 3 as he has on the right of the 3 (16 vs 14 or something of that ilk).
More points per game with him in the side. More goals scored with him in the side. Less goals conceded with him in the side. More efficient in defence and attack with him in the side.
We tried it with him solely on the right, we tried it taking out the big sides, keeping the big sides in, we tried it taking out games with Hourihane in, keeping games with him in... didn’t matter and it won’t matter, it always came back the same. I asked anyone if they wanted to shoehorn any more criteria, they wisely declined.
Those aren’t opinions. I’m sure you get the picture.
Quite why we are all having the same discussion 3 weeks later is beyond me, maybe someone needed some attention? Who knows. But I’m afraid none of this has changed. [Post edited 7 Apr 2021 12:57]
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| “We need to rotate” on 12:56 - Apr 7 with 412 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:21 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not for me. Cabango every single time, in a 4 or a 3, in the centre or the right of centre. He’s roughly played the same amount of games in centre of the 3 as he has on the right of the 3 (16 vs 14 or something of that ilk).
More points per game with him in the side. More goals scored with him in the side. Less goals conceded with him in the side. More efficient in defence and attack with him in the side.
We tried it with him solely on the right, we tried it taking out the big sides, keeping the big sides in, we tried it taking out games with Hourihane in, keeping games with him in... didn’t matter and it won’t matter, it always came back the same. I asked anyone if they wanted to shoehorn any more criteria, they wisely declined.
Those aren’t opinions. I’m sure you get the picture.
Quite why we are all having the same discussion 3 weeks later is beyond me, maybe someone needed some attention? Who knows. But I’m afraid none of this has changed. [Post edited 7 Apr 2021 12:57]
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"not for me, Cabango every single time"
That is an opinion, Cooper has a different one. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:57 - Apr 7 with 411 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:56 - Apr 7 by 34dfgdf54 |
"not for me, Cabango every single time"
That is an opinion, Cooper has a different one. |
Indeed. But we have been through this once already haven’t we? | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 13:09 - Apr 7 with 403 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 12:57 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Indeed. But we have been through this once already haven’t we? |
We've been through alot of things lately, and all of them you've been wrong in. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:12 - Apr 7 with 402 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:09 - Apr 7 by 34dfgdf54 |
We've been through alot of things lately, and all of them you've been wrong in. |
I have been right in absolutely every single one of our exchanges. Mainly because you say the things to get seal claps no matter how ridiculous you have to make your “view” in order to get them... and I say things because they are factual or common sense.
You are either losing your mind or you have a very selective memory. I’ll go for a mixture of both. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 13:24 - Apr 7 with 393 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:12 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
I have been right in absolutely every single one of our exchanges. Mainly because you say the things to get seal claps no matter how ridiculous you have to make your “view” in order to get them... and I say things because they are factual or common sense.
You are either losing your mind or you have a very selective memory. I’ll go for a mixture of both. |
Since being back on this site:
Trump for the election - Spectacular Loss - "election was corrupt"
Naughton hasn't been preferred over Cabango - Wrong
Rotation isn't an issue, Brentford have proved - Wrong
The deluded dr. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:30 - Apr 7 with 389 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:24 - Apr 7 by 34dfgdf54 |
Since being back on this site:
Trump for the election - Spectacular Loss - "election was corrupt"
Naughton hasn't been preferred over Cabango - Wrong
Rotation isn't an issue, Brentford have proved - Wrong
The deluded dr. |
Trump for the election? What does that mean? You have about as much understanding of what was discussed politically as you do about what was discussed in football - which isn’t very much.
I said I think Biden would win and stated the exact reasons for it, which turned out to be correct. The postal voting was massively in Biden’s favour and he won. I called the election spot on in various aspects months in advance, even down the the backlash.
I never said the election was corrupt. I said any complaints need to be taken seriously and investigated, I went on to say any corruption that there may have been would have been unlikely to swing the election. I think that’s fair to say I was spot on.
Rotation isn’t an issue, we don’t have the talent to rotate.
Cabango was preferred when I said it, he had more games under his belt than Naughton. You then changed it to “being preferred in the big games”.
Next... | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 13:31 - Apr 7 with 388 views | Thornburyswan |
Not sure how this turned into Cabango in or out debate, as unfortunately our abject form will not be fixed either way - that said personally I’d prefer him in the side.
For me & at this late stage of the season I’d be sticking with the back 3 (or 5 if you prefer), using 2 central midfielders leaving 3 spots in front of that between Ayew, Whitaker, Lowe, Dhanda & Hourihane.
Noting the majority of our goals this season have come from Ayew, Lowe & more recently Hourihane I guess you start with that - personally I’d be telling Hourihane you are getting hooked after 60 mins so burn whatever you have & then depending on game situation subbing him with Whitaker or Dhanda if we need to score or Smith/Manning if we are looking to manage a lead.
Back 3 : Guehi, Bennett & Cabango with Roberts and Bidders wider
CM. : Grimes & Fulton.
Yes I know that has supposedly been ‘worked out’ but it is also our strongest 11 & formation plus in the next two away games both sides will attack us so might as well play a side that at least knows the set-up. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:36 - Apr 7 with 383 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 13:31 - Apr 7 by Thornburyswan |
Not sure how this turned into Cabango in or out debate, as unfortunately our abject form will not be fixed either way - that said personally I’d prefer him in the side.
For me & at this late stage of the season I’d be sticking with the back 3 (or 5 if you prefer), using 2 central midfielders leaving 3 spots in front of that between Ayew, Whitaker, Lowe, Dhanda & Hourihane.
Noting the majority of our goals this season have come from Ayew, Lowe & more recently Hourihane I guess you start with that - personally I’d be telling Hourihane you are getting hooked after 60 mins so burn whatever you have & then depending on game situation subbing him with Whitaker or Dhanda if we need to score or Smith/Manning if we are looking to manage a lead.
Back 3 : Guehi, Bennett & Cabango with Roberts and Bidders wider
CM. : Grimes & Fulton.
Yes I know that has supposedly been ‘worked out’ but it is also our strongest 11 & formation plus in the next two away games both sides will attack us so might as well play a side that at least knows the set-up. |
Because they knew I preferred Cabango and saw it as an angle for conflict - they then got annoyed when I annihilated all their reasons for having Naughton instead showing we were better in every facet when Cabango plays, including areas they attempted to say we were weaker in.
It’s clearly rattled some. Hence why it’s been inexplicably bumped 3 weeks later... when literally nothing has changed.
That’s Planetswans life when you have the reputation of being correct and using facts. It annoys certain people who have certain narratives they want to push, people who put their points across in such a clear cut manner are a danger.
I’m used to it. I take it as a compliment. | |
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