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What do you think should happen to the Police Officer?
"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it"
Social mobility in this country has almost disappeared.
The lack of opportunity for some kids these days is shocking. And kids without opportunity and ambition are easily persuaded that they may as well create havoc.
A friend of my youngest was up the house earlier, he couldn’t wait to tell me he’d managed to get a start. In the last six months he’d sent off 172 applications, yes you’ve read that right, and no more than a handful had even taken the time to reply.
He’s landed a temporary job in a warehouse. Now I’m not disparaging the boys and girls who stack and unstuck shelves on nights but if you met this kid and saw how bright he is you’d weep, Lis.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
There’s no ‘being with Dr P’. Extensive research has been done and shows there is no correlation between police killing individuals and crime rates.
He’s made it up (or at least, some small minded person has to try to explain away bias). The biggest discrepancy in police killing and other brutality of suspects / members of the community between black and white is in non violent, non armed interactions. It is a matter of fact. I’m not arguing about it. Any more than I’d argue that the Earth is round rather than flat with someone who insists that’s not the case despite all evidence to the contrary.
On the wider question, more crime is committed by the poorest in society. Always has been. In Swansea the most crime is committed in, and by people from, the poorest areas. Same in London. Same in the US.
In London, as an example, the populations of the poorest areas happen to be a far larger percentage Black and people from other minority ethnic backgrounds than is the overall percentage in the U.K. . Same in the US. Hence the effect on the figures.
What in Gods name are you talking about now? Please read your first sentence again.
That’s like saying “extensive research has been done and there is no correlation between firemen using hoses and fires”.
Police contact is directly linked to crime rate. Of those police contacts many will go wrong. The higher the crime rate the more will go wrong.
It’s utterly ludicrous you are trying to suggest otherwise.
Put it this way. If tomorrow there was zero crime, police shootings would fall to almost zero. If you don’t think that is the case and you still think there would be as many then you should be able to name 100’s of cases last year out of the 1000 where no crime was committed.
If you can’t name hundreds... then you really are going to have to start coming round to the obvious fact that police shootings are directly linked to crime rate.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
A friend of my youngest was up the house earlier, he couldn’t wait to tell me he’d managed to get a start. In the last six months he’d sent off 172 applications, yes you’ve read that right, and no more than a handful had even taken the time to reply.
He’s landed a temporary job in a warehouse. Now I’m not disparaging the boys and girls who stack and unstuck shelves on nights but if you met this kid and saw how bright he is you’d weep, Lis.
As we’ve spoken about many times before, you’ll know that it’s one of my biggest bugbears.
The amount of talent in this country that goes to waste through lack of opportunity, lack of vision, lack of ambition, is criminal. It’s governments, teachers, schools, everything. It’s not even really money as such. It’s giving kids a vision. Showing them that the world really is their oyster. And that all of them have talents or skills that will set them up for life if only they can put in the effort needed to maximise those talents and skills. The problem is that so many are written off. Not shown what’s available. Not encouraged to make the most of what they have. Giving them chances to excel. Whether it’s in the classroom, music, sport, drama, carpentry, fixing stuff, using their physical attributes, their compassion, their kindness, their creativity, whatever it is.
And firms that can’t be ars*d to even send back a standard reply to anyone that’s contacted them about any job whether there’s a vacancy or whether it’s speculative should be shot. Lazy, rude gits.
As we’ve spoken about many times before, you’ll know that it’s one of my biggest bugbears.
The amount of talent in this country that goes to waste through lack of opportunity, lack of vision, lack of ambition, is criminal. It’s governments, teachers, schools, everything. It’s not even really money as such. It’s giving kids a vision. Showing them that the world really is their oyster. And that all of them have talents or skills that will set them up for life if only they can put in the effort needed to maximise those talents and skills. The problem is that so many are written off. Not shown what’s available. Not encouraged to make the most of what they have. Giving them chances to excel. Whether it’s in the classroom, music, sport, drama, carpentry, fixing stuff, using their physical attributes, their compassion, their kindness, their creativity, whatever it is.
And firms that can’t be ars*d to even send back a standard reply to anyone that’s contacted them about any job whether there’s a vacancy or whether it’s speculative should be shot. Lazy, rude gits.
100%, 200 even. We disagree on quite a lot, but on this we’ve always agreed.
The doors wide open for us in our teens must be held open for those who come behind us. Youngsters ARE the national interest; they carry the future with them.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
What in Gods name are you talking about now? Please read your first sentence again.
That’s like saying “extensive research has been done and there is no correlation between firemen using hoses and fires”.
Police contact is directly linked to crime rate. Of those police contacts many will go wrong. The higher the crime rate the more will go wrong.
It’s utterly ludicrous you are trying to suggest otherwise.
Put it this way. If tomorrow there was zero crime, police shootings would fall to almost zero. If you don’t think that is the case and you still think there would be as many then you should be able to name 100’s of cases last year out of the 1000 where no crime was committed.
If you can’t name hundreds... then you really are going to have to start coming round to the obvious fact that police shootings are directly linked to crime rate.
Dear God. I posted the graph that showed it. You just don’t accept it because it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Some facts for you.
In 2020, 120 police killings happened after a traffic stop, 97 were after a mental health welfare check.. 194 after what are termed ‘non violent offences’. 160 domestic disturbance. 341 alleged violent crime. 93 someone seen with a weapon. 4# other crimes against people. 77 no specific offence alleged.
In Buffalo New York. Population c. 250,000. Violent Crime rate 12 per 1000. Orlando. Population also c. 250,000. Violent crime rate 9 per 1000. Buffalo police killings between 2013 and 2016 - nil. Orlando police killings between 2013 and 2016 - 13.
Between 2013 and 2020 police killings have decreased in cities and increased in rural and suburban areas - which do you think has the highest crime rate?
Dear God. I posted the graph that showed it. You just don’t accept it because it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Some facts for you.
In 2020, 120 police killings happened after a traffic stop, 97 were after a mental health welfare check.. 194 after what are termed ‘non violent offences’. 160 domestic disturbance. 341 alleged violent crime. 93 someone seen with a weapon. 4# other crimes against people. 77 no specific offence alleged.
In Buffalo New York. Population c. 250,000. Violent Crime rate 12 per 1000. Orlando. Population also c. 250,000. Violent crime rate 9 per 1000. Buffalo police killings between 2013 and 2016 - nil. Orlando police killings between 2013 and 2016 - 13.
Between 2013 and 2020 police killings have decreased in cities and increased in rural and suburban areas - which do you think has the highest crime rate?
You are wrong.
No, you posted a graph that you didn’t understand or realise why it was flawed.
You aren’t understanding what you are saying, and are too ignorant to see it.
120 killings happened after a traffic stop. Right? What does that mean exactly? Are you suggesting that someone had a broken tail-light so they shot them? No
Police contact is where things can go wrong. Whether it is someone reaching for a weapon, attacking an officer. Anything. These can happen after a policeman telling someone they had their shoelace undone too... but to list it as they shot someone for having a shoelace undone is intentionally misleading.
I’m not even close to being wrong, I am not even giving an opinion, it’s a cold hard fact of the most obvious kind.
Police killings are linked to crime. They contact criminals and people being reported for crime. Things can then escalate.
If we isolate each race and their crime rates, the police do not kill any race disproportionately. It really is that simple, what you are suggesting is utterly bonkers.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
A routine traffic stop turned deadly in San Antonio Friday morning.
It happened at about 11:30 in the West Side.
McManus said the conversation between the driver and the officer was casual, but at some point, the driver pulled a gun and shot at the officer.
"He [the officer] approached the vehicle, spoke very casually at the window for maybe a minute and a half, maybe two minutes," McManus said. "All of a sudden the gun was pulled and he ran backwards."
The officer was struck in the hand, but was able return fire, hitting the male driver and passenger, as well as a female passenger.
"I know multiple shots were fired from the truck," McManus said. "I couldn't tell you how many shots were fired from the police officer at this point. There were multiple rounds, but I couldn't tell you how many exactly."
The two men died at the scene, officials said. They haven't been identified.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
News just in Lisa. 5 hours ago, another one for your traffic stop stats (let’s ignore the crime that happened with a butchers knife during it though).. traffic stop.
Bloody racist police.
Edit- and another in Hollywood breaking news. Another justified shooting that will go down on your “unarmed” list where they were not called to any crime, the crime and threat to life developed after contact was made:-
Now if you can provide me some data as to how many police killings happened where no crime was committed or being committed (not just the ‘initial reason for them being called’ which is the list you provided, but the proceeding crime or threat to life that took place when contacted) that would be great.
Although something tells me you may only need one hand out of the thousand per year. But aye, not linked at all (?!).
[Post edited 27 Apr 2021 6:25]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
100%, 200 even. We disagree on quite a lot, but on this we’ve always agreed.
The doors wide open for us in our teens must be held open for those who come behind us. Youngsters ARE the national interest; they carry the future with them.
Agree too-we three are a similar age.Despite claims made here anyone can 'make it' if they work hard, this is tempered against lack and unevenness of opportunity. The use of unpaid internships-lovely if you are financially supported and have the route in.
Veterinary Science is a white, middle class profession. There are few working class vet students of any racial background. Meeting the entry criteria of 'seeing' practice, time in a veterinary-related lab, working in a zoo/wildlife park need the route in and capacity to travel to and frequency stay away from home.Whilst I would be happy to take someone from inner city Liverpool or Manchester to get work experience-they can't reach our semi-rural location on public transport-barrier one. They, if from South Wales could not afford to stay in the area easily-Barrier 2 and so on.
Agree too-we three are a similar age.Despite claims made here anyone can 'make it' if they work hard, this is tempered against lack and unevenness of opportunity. The use of unpaid internships-lovely if you are financially supported and have the route in.
Veterinary Science is a white, middle class profession. There are few working class vet students of any racial background. Meeting the entry criteria of 'seeing' practice, time in a veterinary-related lab, working in a zoo/wildlife park need the route in and capacity to travel to and frequency stay away from home.Whilst I would be happy to take someone from inner city Liverpool or Manchester to get work experience-they can't reach our semi-rural location on public transport-barrier one. They, if from South Wales could not afford to stay in the area easily-Barrier 2 and so on.
Within reason.
I mean, no matter how hard I work at it I will never be an 8 foot point guard in the NBA.
However to suggest there are barriers for progression for someone if their skin is a different color, I just don't buy it. Certainly not on any kind of mass measurable scale anyway. Logistical barriers, sure. But that isn't race specific.
In fact, in America (and I imagine in the UK too but would have to check), the most logistical issues faced by non wealthy people would be Caucasians, as they tend to live in rural areas with less access to certain things people living in urban areas do.
In the main however, if someone wants to be a teacher, sports person, hairdresser, entrepreneur, chef, electrician, builder, stock broker... you name it, if people work at it, there are no real barriers to entry.
It's often that different people make different choices and there can be a variety of reasons for that. Equality of opportunity is wholly desirable, equality of outcome is not.
There will be examples of people from all walks of life that work extremely hard and don't get where they want to be. Hard work and application doesn't guarantee success, but its highly correlated regardless of color, gender, sexuality or creed.
In terms of class mobility UK and the US are very high, both with scores 70 or above. In and around the top 20 on the planet I believe.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2021 10:20]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
I mean, no matter how hard I work at it I will never be an 8 foot point guard in the NBA.
However to suggest there are barriers for progression for someone if their skin is a different color, I just don't buy it. Certainly not on any kind of mass measurable scale anyway. Logistical barriers, sure. But that isn't race specific.
In fact, in America (and I imagine in the UK too but would have to check), the most logistical issues faced by non wealthy people would be Caucasians, as they tend to live in rural areas with less access to certain things people living in urban areas do.
In the main however, if someone wants to be a teacher, sports person, hairdresser, entrepreneur, chef, electrician, builder, stock broker... you name it, if people work at it, there are no real barriers to entry.
It's often that different people make different choices and there can be a variety of reasons for that. Equality of opportunity is wholly desirable, equality of outcome is not.
There will be examples of people from all walks of life that work extremely hard and don't get where they want to be. Hard work and application doesn't guarantee success, but its highly correlated regardless of color, gender, sexuality or creed.
In terms of class mobility UK and the US are very high, both with scores 70 or above. In and around the top 20 on the planet I believe.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2021 10:20]
Nor will I, and have accepted at 53 I am not going to be a professional sportsman.
I don't think race in a major bar to most professions in the UK-access to opportunity for some areas still is-but that's not race it's money and nepotism. A different question entirely. Is there still racism in society? I think yes, but less and generally decreasing over my lifetime, or certainly was.
Nor will I, and have accepted at 53 I am not going to be a professional sportsman.
I don't think race in a major bar to most professions in the UK-access to opportunity for some areas still is-but that's not race it's money and nepotism. A different question entirely. Is there still racism in society? I think yes, but less and generally decreasing over my lifetime, or certainly was.
Yeah I can't disagree with that.
Racism in terms of what people go on about and revel in 'combatting' today is rare, so rare that in many cases it needs to be created to be kept alive.
The vast majority of people are decent human beings. There will always be idiots, that will never change.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Racism in terms of what people go on about and revel in 'combatting' today is rare, so rare that in many cases it needs to be created to be kept alive.
The vast majority of people are decent human beings. There will always be idiots, that will never change.
News just in Lisa. 5 hours ago, another one for your traffic stop stats (let’s ignore the crime that happened with a butchers knife during it though).. traffic stop.
Bloody racist police.
Edit- and another in Hollywood breaking news. Another justified shooting that will go down on your “unarmed” list where they were not called to any crime, the crime and threat to life developed after contact was made:-
Now if you can provide me some data as to how many police killings happened where no crime was committed or being committed (not just the ‘initial reason for them being called’ which is the list you provided, but the proceeding crime or threat to life that took place when contacted) that would be great.
Although something tells me you may only need one hand out of the thousand per year. But aye, not linked at all (?!).
It is a pity that Lisa didn't do a little research in support of the Police rather than pursuing her Police Brutality agenda, she would have realised that the simple Traffic Stop is the most dangerous "non Violent" contact for an American cop there is.
Racism in terms of what people go on about and revel in 'combatting' today is rare, so rare that in many cases it needs to be created to be kept alive.
The vast majority of people are decent human beings. There will always be idiots, that will never change.
I would change your last comment "The vast majority of people are decent human beings. There will always be greedy, evil and idiotic people, that will never change.
100%, 200 even. We disagree on quite a lot, but on this we’ve always agreed.
The doors wide open for us in our teens must be held open for those who come behind us. Youngsters ARE the national interest; they carry the future with them.
When I left school at age 16 in the mid 70's, myself and many at same age left school to start an apprenticeship.
One of my sons didn't want to go to University and instead wanted to do an apprenticeship, there was zero choice out there, instead he ended up joining the army just to get the apprenticeship.
Nowadays everyone is more or less forced to go to University, whether they want to or not. A lot having to do useless degrees that are no help at finding work later.
Decisions made during our lifetime has killed the future of our children.
When I left school at age 16 in the mid 70's, myself and many at same age left school to start an apprenticeship.
One of my sons didn't want to go to University and instead wanted to do an apprenticeship, there was zero choice out there, instead he ended up joining the army just to get the apprenticeship.
Nowadays everyone is more or less forced to go to University, whether they want to or not. A lot having to do useless degrees that are no help at finding work later.
Decisions made during our lifetime has killed the future of our children.
Yep My son went to a top name Grammar School here and passed all the required shed load of exams they train them to pass. He was quite bright and obviously "encouraged" if not pressurised to go to University. He did and has done well. He has a large house in Chester. I paid off his debt which was considerable.
My daughter went to a Comp and not a very good one,and passed as many exams to qualify to go to University and a good one at that;being her mum's daughter,she refused as she wasn't keen on the 4 yr pyss up basically.
She now has her own business ,loyal husband and a big house and has no debt and never has.
Yep My son went to a top name Grammar School here and passed all the required shed load of exams they train them to pass. He was quite bright and obviously "encouraged" if not pressurised to go to University. He did and has done well. He has a large house in Chester. I paid off his debt which was considerable.
My daughter went to a Comp and not a very good one,and passed as many exams to qualify to go to University and a good one at that;being her mum's daughter,she refused as she wasn't keen on the 4 yr pyss up basically.
She now has her own business ,loyal husband and a big house and has no debt and never has.
One chooses as one does.
They made opposite choices and are both successful, it must be something to with their parenting then.
They made opposite choices and are both successful, it must be something to with their parenting then.
That's very complimentary and I thank you sincerely for that.
My kids were brought up to be free thinkers ,free of religion for a start.Neither "christened" which pyssed my dad off for life. Tough.
Both were taught the value of money and the world really owes you nothing so you get out what you put in.
Both are not flag waving English/British and are internationally minded. One is quiet,deep and intense (son) and the other is raging fireball with a real business brain who looks ridiculous young for a woman of 35.
Both have been fired,both took temporary work instead of feeling self pity.
Lisa, please watch this video of a presentation by Heather MacDonald.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2021 22:04]
I’m surprised you post presentations from someone who thinks Covid is no worse then flu, doesn’t believe in lockdowns, social distancing or masks and thinks the only people dying from it are those who would have died anyway because they’re old or ill.
For me, her ignorance and complete bullshit on that subject tends to make me think she’s as ill informed on everything else.
She’s made a lot of money from her ‘black people bring everything on themselves’ position though to be fair. Almost exclusively from racist morons of course, but their dollars are the same as everyone else’s eh?
I’m surprised you post presentations from someone who thinks Covid is no worse then flu, doesn’t believe in lockdowns, social distancing or masks and thinks the only people dying from it are those who would have died anyway because they’re old or ill.
For me, her ignorance and complete bullshit on that subject tends to make me think she’s as ill informed on everything else.
She’s made a lot of money from her ‘black people bring everything on themselves’ position though to be fair. Almost exclusively from racist morons of course, but their dollars are the same as everyone else’s eh?
I note you've not commented on the police officers getting shot whilst carrying out their lawful duties
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
I note you've not commented on the police officers getting shot whilst carrying out their lawful duties
Doesnt have to be the likes of Yvonne Fletcher a London officer.Nicola Highes and Fiona Bone were blown away not that long ago.Both long forgotten but George Floyd,a career criminal,doped up to the eyballs,will remain in their hearts forever as martyrs and as Pelosi said, "sacrificed).
Plenty have been killed on the line of duty .All forgotten
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