| Americans out : Petition change.org on 17:29 - Jul 29 with 955 views | BillyChong |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 13:22 - Jul 29 by Chief |
I've asked this on another thread.
Very intriguing that that particular poster should provide that particular nugget |
I have my suspicions the yanks/mouthpieces are lining up Winter to be the fall guy |  | |  |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 17:32 - Jul 29 with 951 views | NotLoyal |
I think this site reported his instability two weeks ago, not sure this site is anything to do with the tanks tho😂 |  |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 17:42 - Jul 29 with 925 views | Catullus |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 10:37 - Jul 29 by KeithHaynes |
Anymore, the PL killed tha. |
Keith, it was the EPL that spoiled football for me. I was happy to get relegated and happy to see some games where we could actually say we can win this. It's why my passion has gone and now I say I want and need to be entertained, if it's boring (every week) I just won't go.
Under the current ownership we still have a club and no massive financial problems. I am old enough to remember otherwise. Save our Swans, the meeting in the Patti, the march against Petty. I prefer the stability of the current regime to the boom and bust we might get if they were forced out. | |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 22:04 - Jul 29 with 869 views | blaenaugwentjack |
Could not agree more. Yanks out. | | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 22:57 - Jul 29 with 832 views | Badlands |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 17:42 - Jul 29 by Catullus |
Keith, it was the EPL that spoiled football for me. I was happy to get relegated and happy to see some games where we could actually say we can win this. It's why my passion has gone and now I say I want and need to be entertained, if it's boring (every week) I just won't go.
Under the current ownership we still have a club and no massive financial problems. I am old enough to remember otherwise. Save our Swans, the meeting in the Patti, the march against Petty. I prefer the stability of the current regime to the boom and bust we might get if they were forced out. |
Noticeable how many of our fans became everything they accused others of ... a few years in the top league and they think we are in the depths of non-league obscurity in the Championship and it is our right to be in the Premier League. |  |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 22:57 - Jul 29 with 832 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 17:42 - Jul 29 by Catullus |
Keith, it was the EPL that spoiled football for me. I was happy to get relegated and happy to see some games where we could actually say we can win this. It's why my passion has gone and now I say I want and need to be entertained, if it's boring (every week) I just won't go.
Under the current ownership we still have a club and no massive financial problems. I am old enough to remember otherwise. Save our Swans, the meeting in the Patti, the march against Petty. I prefer the stability of the current regime to the boom and bust we might get if they were forced out. |
Some seem to think its a crime to ask to be entertained, its not paying £3 on the turnstile anymore, it costs thousands to follow a team these days, at least it should be enjoyable. |  | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 23:36 - Jul 29 with 799 views | jack247 |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 22:57 - Jul 29 by Treforys_Jack |
Some seem to think its a crime to ask to be entertained, its not paying £3 on the turnstile anymore, it costs thousands to follow a team these days, at least it should be enjoyable. |
I think it was more entertaining back then. Obviously the standard was lower, but virtually every team played 442 and tried to win every game. We never set out to defend for our lives at home and hope to nick a goal on the break. Nobody else did either. | | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 00:36 - Jul 30 with 787 views | jasper_T |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 22:57 - Jul 29 by Treforys_Jack |
Some seem to think its a crime to ask to be entertained, its not paying £3 on the turnstile anymore, it costs thousands to follow a team these days, at least it should be enjoyable. |
Football's an entertainment industry, if it were simply about competition and winning it would be an amateur game and the olympics would be the pinnacle. | | | |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 03:31 - Jul 30 with 759 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 00:36 - Jul 30 by jasper_T |
Football's an entertainment industry, if it were simply about competition and winning it would be an amateur game and the olympics would be the pinnacle. |
It’s actually not though.
It may be for some fans, but those that run football clubs want success, it’s how they get returns on their investments and how their company value grows.
Football in whatever guise, be that all out attack or defensive like the Italian style will always sell and will always be propped up by sponsorship and endorsements.
It’s very rare a team is good enough to have wonderful slowing attacks going out to score on every possession and being tight enough at the back to get consistent results. If it was that easy then everyone would do it.
If a team with some considerable shortcomings can make up for them and improve what would be a mid table finish for a playoff place simply by being pragmatic in style then they will do so and the owners of football clubs will choose that every single day over a manager who wants to go all out attack and entertainment at the sake of results.
Since huge money came into the game it’s results in lucrative competitions that matter, which is why the Cups which used to be wonderfully entertaining are now glorified youth tournaments.
Those that don’t like it really should get used to it, otherwise it’s going to be a torrid time for those going to football expecting their aims of entertainment to be aligned with that of the owners, managers or players. Because they won’t be. |  |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:25 - Jul 30 with 708 views | jasper_T |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 03:31 - Jul 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s actually not though.
It may be for some fans, but those that run football clubs want success, it’s how they get returns on their investments and how their company value grows.
Football in whatever guise, be that all out attack or defensive like the Italian style will always sell and will always be propped up by sponsorship and endorsements.
It’s very rare a team is good enough to have wonderful slowing attacks going out to score on every possession and being tight enough at the back to get consistent results. If it was that easy then everyone would do it.
If a team with some considerable shortcomings can make up for them and improve what would be a mid table finish for a playoff place simply by being pragmatic in style then they will do so and the owners of football clubs will choose that every single day over a manager who wants to go all out attack and entertainment at the sake of results.
Since huge money came into the game it’s results in lucrative competitions that matter, which is why the Cups which used to be wonderfully entertaining are now glorified youth tournaments.
Those that don’t like it really should get used to it, otherwise it’s going to be a torrid time for those going to football expecting their aims of entertainment to be aligned with that of the owners, managers or players. Because they won’t be. |
The reason the money is there at the top is because fans want to watch. The game was changed to make it more marketable, more pleasing to the eye of the general public from what were to many older fans "the good old days" when you could put in a real tackle etc.
You can make money winning ugly but the football industry exists as it does because of it's entertainment value to the fans. People (or customers as we're now called) always have a choice whether they want to travel or pay their £5/10 to watch a game online, and glitz, glamour and quality of play have their influence, not simply the final score or "where are we in the table". A fan demanding entertainment is not being naive, they're a discerning customer.
Just look at Potter and Brighton if you want an example of a club deliberately replacing reliable pragmatism for something more progressive and entertaining. Managers like Russell Martin are frequently linked with moves up due to style of play even when results at their level are merely mediocre. Massive clubs pay outrageous fees for players who will earn millions off the field through shirt sales and endorsements due to popularity, not because they're 10000x better than alternatives.
Competition is part of the product, not the whole thing. | | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:51 - Jul 30 with 689 views | Whiterockin |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:25 - Jul 30 by jasper_T |
The reason the money is there at the top is because fans want to watch. The game was changed to make it more marketable, more pleasing to the eye of the general public from what were to many older fans "the good old days" when you could put in a real tackle etc.
You can make money winning ugly but the football industry exists as it does because of it's entertainment value to the fans. People (or customers as we're now called) always have a choice whether they want to travel or pay their £5/10 to watch a game online, and glitz, glamour and quality of play have their influence, not simply the final score or "where are we in the table". A fan demanding entertainment is not being naive, they're a discerning customer.
Just look at Potter and Brighton if you want an example of a club deliberately replacing reliable pragmatism for something more progressive and entertaining. Managers like Russell Martin are frequently linked with moves up due to style of play even when results at their level are merely mediocre. Massive clubs pay outrageous fees for players who will earn millions off the field through shirt sales and endorsements due to popularity, not because they're 10000x better than alternatives.
Competition is part of the product, not the whole thing. |
Nail bang on the head. |  | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:56 - Jul 30 with 680 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:25 - Jul 30 by jasper_T |
The reason the money is there at the top is because fans want to watch. The game was changed to make it more marketable, more pleasing to the eye of the general public from what were to many older fans "the good old days" when you could put in a real tackle etc.
You can make money winning ugly but the football industry exists as it does because of it's entertainment value to the fans. People (or customers as we're now called) always have a choice whether they want to travel or pay their £5/10 to watch a game online, and glitz, glamour and quality of play have their influence, not simply the final score or "where are we in the table". A fan demanding entertainment is not being naive, they're a discerning customer.
Just look at Potter and Brighton if you want an example of a club deliberately replacing reliable pragmatism for something more progressive and entertaining. Managers like Russell Martin are frequently linked with moves up due to style of play even when results at their level are merely mediocre. Massive clubs pay outrageous fees for players who will earn millions off the field through shirt sales and endorsements due to popularity, not because they're 10000x better than alternatives.
Competition is part of the product, not the whole thing. |
I pretty much covered that in what I said.
Many fans just want to watch winning football, support successful teams. Which is why Chelsea have more fans than Doncaster for example.
However many fans are lost due to football not being as entertaining as they like, they will be replaced ten-fold by fans wanting to be attached to a successful team.
I think the mistake many seem to make is thinking all fans prefer pretty football over winning football, but they don’t, not even close.
I’ve been watching Swansea since the dark days of being thumped by nobodies on our own patch and applauding if we manage to string 4 passes together in mud bath pitches. I went because I fell in love with the club, not because the football was pretty. This will always be the case and will never change.
And while, yes, you will get some fans that are only happy when the football is pleasing to the eye, the vast majority will be happy if the team wins. The proof is in how many fans follow successful clubs with unattractive football and how many follow unsuccessful sides with pretty football.
[Post edited 30 Jul 2021 8:02]
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 08:57 - Jul 30 with 615 views | vetchonian |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 23:36 - Jul 29 by jack247 |
I think it was more entertaining back then. Obviously the standard was lower, but virtually every team played 442 and tried to win every game. We never set out to defend for our lives at home and hope to nick a goal on the break. Nobody else did either. |
Again this myth perpetuates that Cooper went out to defend at home, I have posted links to highlights of various of our home games across threads even as recent as yesterday which show this not to be the case...admittedly as the season wore on Cooper became more cautious but even then there were signs of attacking intent, in the Coventry game at home after going 1 up following Cabangos goal from a HOurihane corner we still looked to attack including doing so from our own box when defending.
Check out the First 6 games or so highlights form the start of last season also what about the Bristol City game we lost at home we went full ou tattack yet couldnt finish.
I agree the final was a washout...we set out not to concede in the first quarter but failed to do so once Brentford went ahead it was game over
Watching the last season at home on screen with no crowds and zero atmosphere also makes it less entertaining. Crowds lift things I remember sitting in the centre stand of the Vetch watching combination games back in the days when we were in Div ! under TOshack.....there was a very small crowd and some of the football was fantastic I can rememebr Spurs reserves with Alan BRazil, and other baig names playing and playing nice football as well as other similar games but due to the lack of atmosphere the "entertainment" seemd low [Post edited 30 Jul 2021 9:02]
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:20 - Jul 30 with 577 views | vetchonian |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 07:25 - Jul 30 by jasper_T |
The reason the money is there at the top is because fans want to watch. The game was changed to make it more marketable, more pleasing to the eye of the general public from what were to many older fans "the good old days" when you could put in a real tackle etc.
You can make money winning ugly but the football industry exists as it does because of it's entertainment value to the fans. People (or customers as we're now called) always have a choice whether they want to travel or pay their £5/10 to watch a game online, and glitz, glamour and quality of play have their influence, not simply the final score or "where are we in the table". A fan demanding entertainment is not being naive, they're a discerning customer.
Just look at Potter and Brighton if you want an example of a club deliberately replacing reliable pragmatism for something more progressive and entertaining. Managers like Russell Martin are frequently linked with moves up due to style of play even when results at their level are merely mediocre. Massive clubs pay outrageous fees for players who will earn millions off the field through shirt sales and endorsements due to popularity, not because they're 10000x better than alternatives.
Competition is part of the product, not the whole thing. |
Themoney is there simply because of TV...fans wanted to be able watch Premeier league football I grew up only being able to see highlights on MOTD or the The Big Match, some European footie midweek on sportsnight only live game was the FA Cup, otherwise most football fans wnet to watch and support their local league side.
Satellite TV in partciular changed all that allowing access to live premier football to who ever would pay the subscription. Pubs saw the ptoential and they were chagred more genereating more monies for the broadcasters and more for them to "donate" to the clubs and then also allow them to dictate changes in kick off times form the traditional 3pm on saturdays to lunchtimes, early evenings,Sunday Lunchtimes and evenings...this all contributed to crowds dwindling away....so it was fans wanting to watch the top level games not necessarily enteratining games and as a reuslt the game has changed as expectations have changed...and clubs want to get to higher levels to get more cash and that is done by winning | |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:21 - Jul 30 with 577 views | jack247 |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 08:57 - Jul 30 by vetchonian |
Again this myth perpetuates that Cooper went out to defend at home, I have posted links to highlights of various of our home games across threads even as recent as yesterday which show this not to be the case...admittedly as the season wore on Cooper became more cautious but even then there were signs of attacking intent, in the Coventry game at home after going 1 up following Cabangos goal from a HOurihane corner we still looked to attack including doing so from our own box when defending.
Check out the First 6 games or so highlights form the start of last season also what about the Bristol City game we lost at home we went full ou tattack yet couldnt finish.
I agree the final was a washout...we set out not to concede in the first quarter but failed to do so once Brentford went ahead it was game over
Watching the last season at home on screen with no crowds and zero atmosphere also makes it less entertaining. Crowds lift things I remember sitting in the centre stand of the Vetch watching combination games back in the days when we were in Div ! under TOshack.....there was a very small crowd and some of the football was fantastic I can rememebr Spurs reserves with Alan BRazil, and other baig names playing and playing nice football as well as other similar games but due to the lack of atmosphere the "entertainment" seemd low [Post edited 30 Jul 2021 9:02]
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It’s not a myth, we did set out to defend at home. I’m not blaming Cooper for that, he set his teams out the way he thought most likely to get a result.
Yes, it’s easy to highlight particular games when we played more expansively, out of 46 plus the three playoff games, I’d be surprised if there were double figures. It looked better towards the end of the previous season when teams couldn’t pin Roberts and Bidwell back and we had a genuine striker alongside Ayew.
I agree to an extent about watching at home with no crowds, I think it affects exciting games more though. Drab football is drab football regardless.
It’s not a Cooper thing either, half the division do it, certainly a lot of the PL relegation battlers do. We had the same mindset under Clement and Carvahal, to an extent Monk, Guidolin and Sousa too.
When I first started going (early/mid nineties) we were lower league and the finances weren’t the same. Nobody really had that mindset. | | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:26 - Jul 30 with 563 views | vetchonian |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:21 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
It’s not a myth, we did set out to defend at home. I’m not blaming Cooper for that, he set his teams out the way he thought most likely to get a result.
Yes, it’s easy to highlight particular games when we played more expansively, out of 46 plus the three playoff games, I’d be surprised if there were double figures. It looked better towards the end of the previous season when teams couldn’t pin Roberts and Bidwell back and we had a genuine striker alongside Ayew.
I agree to an extent about watching at home with no crowds, I think it affects exciting games more though. Drab football is drab football regardless.
It’s not a Cooper thing either, half the division do it, certainly a lot of the PL relegation battlers do. We had the same mindset under Clement and Carvahal, to an extent Monk, Guidolin and Sousa too.
When I first started going (early/mid nineties) we were lower league and the finances weren’t the same. Nobody really had that mindset. |
Yes things changed with the creation of hte PL and satellite TV as I discuss in another post.
Just like "video killed the radio star", Money killed the lovely game of football as points make prizes and prizes mean money | |
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:47 - Jul 30 with 544 views | jack247 |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:26 - Jul 30 by vetchonian |
Yes things changed with the creation of hte PL and satellite TV as I discuss in another post.
Just like "video killed the radio star", Money killed the lovely game of football as points make prizes and prizes mean money |
Didn’t see the other thread but I completely agree.
Plus the more money, the greater the imbalance. Teams at the very top usually play decent football, because they can afford the game changing players. If you can’t compete financially, it’s more pragmatic to set up to stop opponents playing than construct attacks yourself.
Obviously there are managers that do try to play more expansively on a budget. They tend to be better thought of than their points tally I.e. Potter finishing 10th and getting a PL job then surviving and being linked to Spurs. Martin finishing mid table league one and being offered the job here. | | | |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:56 - Jul 30 with 530 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:47 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
Didn’t see the other thread but I completely agree.
Plus the more money, the greater the imbalance. Teams at the very top usually play decent football, because they can afford the game changing players. If you can’t compete financially, it’s more pragmatic to set up to stop opponents playing than construct attacks yourself.
Obviously there are managers that do try to play more expansively on a budget. They tend to be better thought of than their points tally I.e. Potter finishing 10th and getting a PL job then surviving and being linked to Spurs. Martin finishing mid table league one and being offered the job here. |
Cooper was linked with Spurs too and of course seems to have come incredibly close to the Palace job who seem to be an ever present mid table Premier League side. As we have previously talked about, the breakdown in the Palace move seemed to be what we were demanding as opposed to them not wanting him, that’s the narrative that seems to have been reported anyway.
Success will always be attractive regardless of style. The fact Cooper has been linked to a mid table Premier League side and also to Tottenham after two solitary Championship seasons tells you that.
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| Americans out : Petition change.org on 10:02 - Jul 30 with 525 views | jack247 |
| Americans out : Petition change.org on 09:56 - Jul 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Cooper was linked with Spurs too and of course seems to have come incredibly close to the Palace job who seem to be an ever present mid table Premier League side. As we have previously talked about, the breakdown in the Palace move seemed to be what we were demanding as opposed to them not wanting him, that’s the narrative that seems to have been reported anyway.
Success will always be attractive regardless of style. The fact Cooper has been linked to a mid table Premier League side and also to Tottenham after two solitary Championship seasons tells you that.
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Yes, absolutely, but Cooper reached the playoffs twice in two seasons. Success will always be the biggest driver.
I don’t think Potter would have got there or Martin been offered the job here (apparently he hasn’t now mind) if they didn’t play good football. | | | |
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