| Could the Trust run the club 09:40 - Jul 29 with 4923 views | onehunglow |
Seeing these current owners aint going anywhere,I raise the possiblity |  |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 10:19 - Jul 30 with 974 views | Catullus |
| Could the Trust run the club on 12:56 - Jul 29 by ReslovenSwan1 |
If you want Swansea to be Exeter city of Wales yes. Exeter had 3000 members a couple of years ago paying £25 each bring in £75,000 which was given to the club. It kept their noses above water. This is what the Guardian journo that has attached himself to Swansea wants it to be, rainbow laces and social inclusion being the main key performance indicator.
They sold Ampadu Watkins and Grimes for less than £5m. Worth about £45m today.
Personally I think the Trust system is something devised by thinking people for 'unsophisticated' people to run. Fans "investing" cannot make any profit. "Thicko fans cannot be trusted with their own money" might be the mentality.
Some might argue the only people to make profit out of the some Trusts are the ruling elite of bankers, lawyers and insurance companies. The member pay and take the risks and dividend if there are any, the lawyers take a big cut of the cash if their are successful. Just like that.
The lefties on here need to wake up and smell the coffee. Trusts are designed to stop the working fan making money from his own cash investment. The £5 I put in a bucket in 2002 was worth £500 by 2016. If I could have cashed it in I would have and gone to Majorca for a well deserved break. I want my £5 back. [Post edited 29 Jul 2021 13:47]
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If you'd put £5 in a bank account in 2002, 14 years later it would have been £500?
Maybe someone who knows more about the economy could answer a question, is £5 worth more or less today than it was in 2002 and was it worth less in 2016 than 2002. Also what interest rate would be needed to get 5 up to 500 in 14 years?
Maybe with the benefit of hindsight I can go back in time and put a £5 bet on. I could turn it into thousands over a weekend and into millions over the following week. Simple.
Or possibly an utterly stupid thing for me to say and a ridiculous idea from the OP. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 10:34 - Jul 30 with 946 views | onehunglow |
| Could the Trust run the club on 10:19 - Jul 30 by Catullus |
If you'd put £5 in a bank account in 2002, 14 years later it would have been £500?
Maybe someone who knows more about the economy could answer a question, is £5 worth more or less today than it was in 2002 and was it worth less in 2016 than 2002. Also what interest rate would be needed to get 5 up to 500 in 14 years?
Maybe with the benefit of hindsight I can go back in time and put a £5 bet on. I could turn it into thousands over a weekend and into millions over the following week. Simple.
Or possibly an utterly stupid thing for me to say and a ridiculous idea from the OP. |
The OP seems to have led to some debate which proves it wasn't as dumb as some might think.
That said,the Trust is there and was created to "protect" the club. I d suggest ,right now,we need some inspiration and in some ways ,the dark days it was supposed to protect are here now.
Right now, we cannot find ANY manager . Think on that . | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 11:17 - Jul 30 with 926 views | Catullus |
| Could the Trust run the club on 10:34 - Jul 30 by onehunglow |
The OP seems to have led to some debate which proves it wasn't as dumb as some might think.
That said,the Trust is there and was created to "protect" the club. I d suggest ,right now,we need some inspiration and in some ways ,the dark days it was supposed to protect are here now.
Right now, we cannot find ANY manager . Think on that . |
The OP never wastes an opportunity to attack the trust. In doing so he regularly makes large assumptions, presents his views as facts even though many others see it a different way and constantly defends the previous owners even though, again, many others see things a different way.
He's entitled to his opinions but it doesn'tmean he's right.
Tell me OHL, do you think you could turn £5 into £500 in 14 years? Guaranteed I mean, not by gambling. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 11:17 - Jul 30 with 926 views | owainglyndwr |
Couldn't the trust ask the board of directors to look at selling the club |  | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 11:29 - Jul 30 with 923 views | raynor94 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 11:17 - Jul 30 by owainglyndwr |
Couldn't the trust ask the board of directors to look at selling the club |
But sell the club to who? |  |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 11:52 - Jul 30 with 912 views | onehunglow |
| Could the Trust run the club on 11:17 - Jul 30 by Catullus |
The OP never wastes an opportunity to attack the trust. In doing so he regularly makes large assumptions, presents his views as facts even though many others see it a different way and constantly defends the previous owners even though, again, many others see things a different way.
He's entitled to his opinions but it doesn'tmean he's right.
Tell me OHL, do you think you could turn £5 into £500 in 14 years? Guaranteed I mean, not by gambling. |
Thanks Cat.
"attack" ,well maybe;it' jut the case I fin them underwhelming and not really as vital as you make out. But that's me.I accept that and most certainly I am entitled to my opinion. People don't agree fine but cut the personal abuse.I read some appalling shyte my way,often from lovely lisa.
Could I turn money into profit as you suggest. Absolutely.
I could also have spent our profit on players like Siggi better too and Asoro,and paying for the appalling Holourihane and Woody-the most overated keeper we ever had.
Send me your bank details by PM and I'll enrol you in my consultancy scheme.
The way we have handled finance has been appalling. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 12:27 - Jul 30 with 890 views | majorraglan |
| Could the Trust run the club on 10:19 - Jul 30 by Catullus |
If you'd put £5 in a bank account in 2002, 14 years later it would have been £500?
Maybe someone who knows more about the economy could answer a question, is £5 worth more or less today than it was in 2002 and was it worth less in 2016 than 2002. Also what interest rate would be needed to get 5 up to 500 in 14 years?
Maybe with the benefit of hindsight I can go back in time and put a £5 bet on. I could turn it into thousands over a weekend and into millions over the following week. Simple.
Or possibly an utterly stupid thing for me to say and a ridiculous idea from the OP. |
If you had £5 in 2002, in terms of purchasing power today it would be worth £3. In 2021, you’d need £8.36 to have the equivalent spending power as a Fiver had back in the day.
Interest rate would be around 27%
https://www.in2013dollars.com/ | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 12:56 - Jul 30 with 873 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 10:19 - Jul 30 by Catullus |
If you'd put £5 in a bank account in 2002, 14 years later it would have been £500?
Maybe someone who knows more about the economy could answer a question, is £5 worth more or less today than it was in 2002 and was it worth less in 2016 than 2002. Also what interest rate would be needed to get 5 up to 500 in 14 years?
Maybe with the benefit of hindsight I can go back in time and put a £5 bet on. I could turn it into thousands over a weekend and into millions over the following week. Simple.
Or possibly an utterly stupid thing for me to say and a ridiculous idea from the OP. |
I have done a little back of an envelope sums. Here is my view.
Under Huw Jenkins's leader ship the great man delivered for the SCST and other shareholders over the period 2002 -2016 and annual return of just under 20% per year on average. This is 40 times time what you will get from their bank today with an ISA bond.
This benefited from the concept of compound interest. This means all markup were reinvested and no cash taken or dividends paid (in general) . Therefore Investors looking for growth benefited (the sellers). Investors looking for income lost (The non sellers) if the overall value of the club dropped. A simple failed strategy it seems to me.
All the shareholders except one were ecstatic at this performance. It has to be accepted that football is a highly volatile investment. The non sellers wanted dividends. Profits were recorded as all surplus cash was pumped into Infrastructure and players increasing the sale value of the club. No profits mean no corporation tax. Once the infrastructure was complete the club was put up for sale as I understand it.
My £5 put in a bucket in 2002 was worth £500 in 2016 and roughly £150 today perhaps. If I invested it in a cash ISA I reckon at a guess the £5 would be worth about £6 or or £7 perhaps (as ISA rates were quite high around the millenium period).
Due to inflation which i was low and falling the £5 would be worth in real term s probably Between £4 and £4.50. Football inflation is greater. I used to pay about £10 to watch the Swans play under Brian Flynn at he crumbling and frankly unsafe Vetch field
Hope that helps. |  |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 13:25 - Jul 30 with 843 views | onehunglow |
| Could the Trust run the club on 13:03 - Jul 30 by waynekerr55 |
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You been quiet wAyne! | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 14:15 - Jul 30 with 822 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I always thought that was the point of the Trust. To potential buy 100% of the club or even better, join a more capable consortium 50:50.
As soon as they said that wasn’t their ambition I lost all faith in them. Seems a bit of a pointless exercise otherwise.
To be fair, they haven’t shown any sort of competence to be able to be any sort of investable partner up to this point anyway.
My views of the Trust have gone from anger to complete and utter apathy. A pointless entity unfortunately. I’d love to be proven wrong one day regarding them. |  |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 14:41 - Jul 30 with 809 views | KGriz16 |
Trust cannot even run themselves. |  | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:34 - Jul 30 with 788 views | onehunglow |
| Could the Trust run the club on 14:41 - Jul 30 by KGriz16 |
Trust cannot even run themselves. |
Hence my OP really.
I m being forever "schooled" by my more learned forum betters ,who know far more than me ,that the Trust is effectively the club's goalkeeper. It seems a Woodman kind of keeper to me.
It has ,IMO,served little purpose and it's inception was to protect the club.It has not.
The sale,for whatever reason,was done on their watch. If they couldn't do anything about the sellers and the sale then what is the point of them.
Meanwhile,when is the Court action. Not long ago it was "soon" ,"impending" and the barristers couldn't wait to get stuck in.
Meanwhile, we cannot find a manager.
So someone really try to convince me this proposed action doea not make us ,to others,rather a basket case,where the club is clearly split.
Few managers would be attracted to this scenario. No manager ,from outside,can be assured that the action would not affect the club and its business.
The club's business IS football. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 15:46 - Jul 30 with 782 views | 3swan |
Whether you think the Trust is useful or not let's understand the aim of the Trust has never been to own the club outright. It was to try and keep a football club in Swansea and get it closer to the community. Putting aside the ownership issue the Trust effectively was involved in decision making on things like ST pricing, ticket allocation and a voice for getting more day to day stuff done that affected fans. Improvement for disabled fans etc. Since the takeover that voice has not been heard as much. So please let's have a balance the Trust isn't all about club ownership. | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:57 - Jul 30 with 770 views | onehunglow |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:46 - Jul 30 by 3swan |
Whether you think the Trust is useful or not let's understand the aim of the Trust has never been to own the club outright. It was to try and keep a football club in Swansea and get it closer to the community. Putting aside the ownership issue the Trust effectively was involved in decision making on things like ST pricing, ticket allocation and a voice for getting more day to day stuff done that affected fans. Improvement for disabled fans etc. Since the takeover that voice has not been heard as much. So please let's have a balance the Trust isn't all about club ownership. |
Clive.
Would you say the Trust has brought the club closer to the people of Swansea.
To keep football in Swansea would mean talking control of the club otherwise it couldn't.
It is profoundly depressing to think we needed a Trust to protect the club from local people whose devious selling precipitated this miasma. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 16:11 - Jul 30 with 762 views | 3swan |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:57 - Jul 30 by onehunglow |
Clive.
Would you say the Trust has brought the club closer to the people of Swansea.
To keep football in Swansea would mean talking control of the club otherwise it couldn't.
It is profoundly depressing to think we needed a Trust to protect the club from local people whose devious selling precipitated this miasma. |
Just caught me as I had logged off. Firstly I'm not here to bang the drum for the Trust. I can't answer if the Trust has brought the club closer to the community as I live away. What I do know as fact though (not used lightly) is the Trust was heavily involved in improving things for the fans. I know again that as the club became successful the help from the Trust was seen less of a requirement from within the club. Now some can read that as the Trust being impotent, and in some issues it has been but if a wall is being built then their aims become more difficult. | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 16:29 - Jul 30 with 743 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:46 - Jul 30 by 3swan |
Whether you think the Trust is useful or not let's understand the aim of the Trust has never been to own the club outright. It was to try and keep a football club in Swansea and get it closer to the community. Putting aside the ownership issue the Trust effectively was involved in decision making on things like ST pricing, ticket allocation and a voice for getting more day to day stuff done that affected fans. Improvement for disabled fans etc. Since the takeover that voice has not been heard as much. So please let's have a balance the Trust isn't all about club ownership. |
That was not the Trusts aim when it started because it was a million miles from reality. Nobody could have envisioned the rise to fame and the dividends and share values that went along with it. So what the aims were when it started should be irrelevant.
The stark reality however is that the Trusts aims should have shifted and evolved with what was happening with the club.
As the club started to rise, so should their thoughts on the future protection of the club and what that may look like. Initial short term thoughts of a fund to keep the electric on, or to fend off future winding up orders - should have turned to protecting the club long term by becoming a strong and equal stakeholder.
The very second it became clear that the owners wanted out and that buying extra shares wasn’t an option, they should have been screaming from the rooftops that they want in on any deal. Yet they made all the noises that they didn’t want to sell and potentially going to make any sale difficult.
£20m sat in the bank or whatever it would be (do they pay tax?) would have been a very good war chest for even this scenario if they could find a consortium to partner with. £40m cash offer for a club floundering in the Championship or upon relegation to league 1 would be a pretty fair offer.
Without owning a significant “scuppering share” in the club, the Trust will always be vulnerable (and powerless) to whoever the owners are. This lack of foresight was painful to witness, especially when they wouldn’t listen to reason. Ego and sheer pig headedness ruled, sadly.
So I don’t even think I care if they win the case if it ever materialises. I’m unsure as to how much good it would do, if they have no idea how to use it. While I can only assume it would impact the club negatively whether people say it won’t or not, even the uncertainly would.
I’d be fully behind a competent Trust but am yet to see a version of it that could be remotely described as that. It’s all a bit of “a camel being a horse designed by committee”, everyone wants their say and when it’s done, it comes out as just senseless nonsense. | |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 16:37 - Jul 30 with 742 views | GVJack |
Yes - but how successfully is anyone's guess. Certainly wouldn't be able to inject large sums into the club like our current..... oh! | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 16:50 - Jul 30 with 734 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:46 - Jul 30 by 3swan |
Whether you think the Trust is useful or not let's understand the aim of the Trust has never been to own the club outright. It was to try and keep a football club in Swansea and get it closer to the community. Putting aside the ownership issue the Trust effectively was involved in decision making on things like ST pricing, ticket allocation and a voice for getting more day to day stuff done that affected fans. Improvement for disabled fans etc. Since the takeover that voice has not been heard as much. So please let's have a balance the Trust isn't all about club ownership. |
Guest commentator comment. Opinion piece.
I believe some people in the SCST do see the possibility of owning the club outright. This would be to the Exeter city ownership model. If you throw in a community feel to the Forest green ecological stance you have sporting socially aware eco-community bliss.
Expect to see Pre season Morris dancing teams coming up from Wiltshire to help with player coordination and provide pre match entertainment. Swansea city will be re named Abertawe and be carbon neutral. Linking the club to our Cymro Celtic tree hugging heritage. It does quite appeal to me to be honest.
These are social activists that put social inclusion above team performance and aspiration. They being people of political persuasion believe in community ownership with low investment and good clean green eco friendly credentials .
If you do not believe in this take a look at the CV s of the new board members. It includes at least one social activist person that may have only a passing interest in the beautiful game, and what seems to us to be the perfectly reasonable past time of being abusive to Cardiff city fans. A little backward perhaps but also part of our industrial heritage perhaps?.
The court battle for me is a straight fight for the soul of the club.
a) Free market high risk capitalism growth development evolution profits and loses and trying to return the Premier league with ambitious big money Judeo American capitalists. The target is to be like Burnley and sold for £200m as a going Premier League concern. They will endeavour to make the club board 'sweat the asset' to get maximum return. Whiitacker will be pushed so hard he will play for England within 3 years with Brandon and Ben Cabango a monstous pair of hard guy bruisers.
b) Community low aspiration low risk touchy feely pink laced coffee morning club like Exeter with the members pumping non returnable money into the club to keep it afloat. An occasional FA cup run and a 7-0 thrashing by Klopp's Liverpool will suffice. Klop will comment on the very nice cakes the club had, So not a bad day all in all.
There is a danger that this club will see another Welsh American owned club like Wrexham over take it. In a few years time when Wrexham pass their high point their owners will also be called "Yanks". [Post edited 30 Jul 2021 16:53]
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| Could the Trust run the club on 17:07 - Jul 30 with 701 views | waynekerr55 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 16:50 - Jul 30 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Guest commentator comment. Opinion piece.
I believe some people in the SCST do see the possibility of owning the club outright. This would be to the Exeter city ownership model. If you throw in a community feel to the Forest green ecological stance you have sporting socially aware eco-community bliss.
Expect to see Pre season Morris dancing teams coming up from Wiltshire to help with player coordination and provide pre match entertainment. Swansea city will be re named Abertawe and be carbon neutral. Linking the club to our Cymro Celtic tree hugging heritage. It does quite appeal to me to be honest.
These are social activists that put social inclusion above team performance and aspiration. They being people of political persuasion believe in community ownership with low investment and good clean green eco friendly credentials .
If you do not believe in this take a look at the CV s of the new board members. It includes at least one social activist person that may have only a passing interest in the beautiful game, and what seems to us to be the perfectly reasonable past time of being abusive to Cardiff city fans. A little backward perhaps but also part of our industrial heritage perhaps?.
The court battle for me is a straight fight for the soul of the club.
a) Free market high risk capitalism growth development evolution profits and loses and trying to return the Premier league with ambitious big money Judeo American capitalists. The target is to be like Burnley and sold for £200m as a going Premier League concern. They will endeavour to make the club board 'sweat the asset' to get maximum return. Whiitacker will be pushed so hard he will play for England within 3 years with Brandon and Ben Cabango a monstous pair of hard guy bruisers.
b) Community low aspiration low risk touchy feely pink laced coffee morning club like Exeter with the members pumping non returnable money into the club to keep it afloat. An occasional FA cup run and a 7-0 thrashing by Klopp's Liverpool will suffice. Klop will comment on the very nice cakes the club had, So not a bad day all in all.
There is a danger that this club will see another Welsh American owned club like Wrexham over take it. In a few years time when Wrexham pass their high point their owners will also be called "Yanks". [Post edited 30 Jul 2021 16:53]
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Have a day off will you. You're just embarrassing yourself more and more with every post. |  |
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| Could the Trust run the club on 17:08 - Jul 30 with 700 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 16:50 - Jul 30 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Guest commentator comment. Opinion piece.
I believe some people in the SCST do see the possibility of owning the club outright. This would be to the Exeter city ownership model. If you throw in a community feel to the Forest green ecological stance you have sporting socially aware eco-community bliss.
Expect to see Pre season Morris dancing teams coming up from Wiltshire to help with player coordination and provide pre match entertainment. Swansea city will be re named Abertawe and be carbon neutral. Linking the club to our Cymro Celtic tree hugging heritage. It does quite appeal to me to be honest.
These are social activists that put social inclusion above team performance and aspiration. They being people of political persuasion believe in community ownership with low investment and good clean green eco friendly credentials .
If you do not believe in this take a look at the CV s of the new board members. It includes at least one social activist person that may have only a passing interest in the beautiful game, and what seems to us to be the perfectly reasonable past time of being abusive to Cardiff city fans. A little backward perhaps but also part of our industrial heritage perhaps?.
The court battle for me is a straight fight for the soul of the club.
a) Free market high risk capitalism growth development evolution profits and loses and trying to return the Premier league with ambitious big money Judeo American capitalists. The target is to be like Burnley and sold for £200m as a going Premier League concern. They will endeavour to make the club board 'sweat the asset' to get maximum return. Whiitacker will be pushed so hard he will play for England within 3 years with Brandon and Ben Cabango a monstous pair of hard guy bruisers.
b) Community low aspiration low risk touchy feely pink laced coffee morning club like Exeter with the members pumping non returnable money into the club to keep it afloat. An occasional FA cup run and a 7-0 thrashing by Klopp's Liverpool will suffice. Klop will comment on the very nice cakes the club had, So not a bad day all in all.
There is a danger that this club will see another Welsh American owned club like Wrexham over take it. In a few years time when Wrexham pass their high point their owners will also be called "Yanks". [Post edited 30 Jul 2021 16:53]
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Absolute nonsense. From start to finish.
Ryan Reynolds is Canadian btw.
Out of interest, who is the ‘social activist that may have only passing interest in the game’?
Careful now. | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 17:09 - Jul 30 with 698 views | max936 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 11:29 - Jul 30 by raynor94 |
But sell the club to who? |
Owain, he's just had a bonus, my names on the first pint, that's what he promised me anyway |  | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 17:14 - Jul 30 with 692 views | max936 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 13:03 - Jul 30 by waynekerr55 |
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Its a heart warming tale, I tell thee, aye | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 17:19 - Jul 30 with 683 views | max936 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 15:46 - Jul 30 by 3swan |
Whether you think the Trust is useful or not let's understand the aim of the Trust has never been to own the club outright. It was to try and keep a football club in Swansea and get it closer to the community. Putting aside the ownership issue the Trust effectively was involved in decision making on things like ST pricing, ticket allocation and a voice for getting more day to day stuff done that affected fans. Improvement for disabled fans etc. Since the takeover that voice has not been heard as much. So please let's have a balance the Trust isn't all about club ownership. |
Great Post Clive.  | | | |
| Could the Trust run the club on 17:21 - Jul 30 with 681 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Could the Trust run the club on 17:07 - Jul 30 by waynekerr55 |
Have a day off will you. You're just embarrassing yourself more and more with every post. |
Just a bit of fun. Relax and play with your marbles. | |
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