| Covid in Israel 21:43 - Sep 2 with 7201 views | britferry |
They led the world in the vaccine rollout.
They are now the Covid hotspot
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| Covid in Israel on 09:09 - Sep 6 with 896 views | Professor |
| Covid in Israel on 07:46 - Sep 6 by Professor |
99.7% is a lie though. Always has been. Cumulative U.K. mortality is lose to 3%’and currently about 1.2%. You can repeat it, but still a fabrication |
If 99.7% people survive, based on deaths of 140,000, then around 45 million people in the U.K. have been infected. I am prepared to admit the actual cases may be twice or perhaps even three times the reported level. But 6 to 7 times is unrealistic. Even seen 99.9% bandied around -
Which means everyone has been infected . Twice | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 09:23 - Sep 6 with 889 views | onehunglow |
Were these arguments around when polio and TB were an issue for all. | |
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| Covid in Israel on 09:31 - Sep 6 with 880 views | Professor |
| Covid in Israel on 09:23 - Sep 6 by onehunglow |
Were these arguments around when polio and TB were an issue for all. |
They have been around since the 18th century when Jenner developed his vaccine for smallpox (Variola) using cowpox (Vaccinia)
Jenner also described the nesting habit of the cuckoo. Plenty of cuckoos on here. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 09:43 - Sep 6 with 864 views | jackrmee |
| Covid in Israel on 09:09 - Sep 6 by Scotia |
There will always be debate, the vast majority of those that state the vaccines don't work or aren't safe are fuelled by mis and disinformation. It is crystal clear that they work and are safe.
Yes an unvaccinated child is more likely to kill gran than a vaccinated child.
JCVI haven't reccommended it - they look purely at the health benefits to that child. They did say that the benefit outweighed the risk. When missed education and onward transmission are considered too I would expect the government to give the go ahead.
I wouldn't put my child at risk for anything at all and I wish the vaccines weren't needed, my child has received all her vaccinations so far, and this will be another if /when the time comes. |
I thought it was the health benefits of the child/the benefits of the child having the vaccine towards society?
All vaccines are a risk to children though. None are completely safe. Especially one that is brand new.
I understand the risk is worth it, if it helps the child to keep itself safe ie. not being harmed by measles or polio etc. but this is different, as the vaccine is not to help the child, but to help other people the child may come into contact with.
IMO it’s totally wrong to make that child responsible for another persons welfare.
And not fair to put a risky vaccine in them when the virus will not affect them anyway. Especially as the virus has been shown to have side effects on kids. One of them seems a pretty serious heart abnormality from what I saw somewhere. |  |
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| Covid in Israel on 09:45 - Sep 6 with 857 views | jackrmee |
| Covid in Israel on 09:23 - Sep 6 by onehunglow |
Were these arguments around when polio and TB were an issue for all. |
It’s surely different though mate.
TB and polio could actually harm the person having the jab, or am I wrong?
This jab is being taken by most people, when they don’t need it, and simply to stop the spread of the virus. Apparently | |
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| Covid in Israel on 09:51 - Sep 6 with 847 views | controversial_jack |
| Covid in Israel on 09:45 - Sep 6 by jackrmee |
It’s surely different though mate.
TB and polio could actually harm the person having the jab, or am I wrong?
This jab is being taken by most people, when they don’t need it, and simply to stop the spread of the virus. Apparently |
The TB vaccine didn't work.There were many outbreaks after the mass immunisation programme happened. It's clear now, that vaccinations do not stop the spread. They probably mitigate the seriousness, but that's all they do. Masks, distancing and hygiene are far more important in stopping the spread. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 09:59 - Sep 6 with 837 views | jackrmee |
| Covid in Israel on 09:51 - Sep 6 by controversial_jack |
The TB vaccine didn't work.There were many outbreaks after the mass immunisation programme happened. It's clear now, that vaccinations do not stop the spread. They probably mitigate the seriousness, but that's all they do. Masks, distancing and hygiene are far more important in stopping the spread. |
Along with being fat and not having enough vitamin d apparently.
People still do not understand it properly, yet we are being pushed into having a vaccine that is brand new and not even proven to be safe. There are no long term studies.
This study shows that 78% of hospitalisations happen to overweight people.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/0
This one shows that 80% of hospitalisations had a deficiency in vitamin d.
https://www.endocrine.org/news | |
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| Covid in Israel on 10:10 - Sep 6 with 837 views | Professor |
| Covid in Israel on 09:45 - Sep 6 by jackrmee |
It’s surely different though mate.
TB and polio could actually harm the person having the jab, or am I wrong?
This jab is being taken by most people, when they don’t need it, and simply to stop the spread of the virus. Apparently |
Whilst it's clear younger people are less at risk and generally have milder disease, to day it's not harmful is rather naive. It can cause multi-systemic inflammatory disease in infants which is pretty serious along with the usual respiratory problems. Long Covid affects perhaps as much as 10% of teenagers. There is an argument that 12-16 year old should be vaccinated-nearly everywhere else is.
The median age of Delta hospitalisation is much younger than the original Wuhan and Alpha variants-around 50 down from 59. This suggests more problems in 20 -40 age group. | | | |
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| Covid in Israel on 10:11 - Sep 6 with 837 views | Catullus |
| Covid in Israel on 09:45 - Sep 6 by jackrmee |
It’s surely different though mate.
TB and polio could actually harm the person having the jab, or am I wrong?
This jab is being taken by most people, when they don’t need it, and simply to stop the spread of the virus. Apparently |
To stop the spread, yes that's part of it though it's hardly doing that. Mostly it's to ensure the majority of people don't develop serious illness and maybe die, to try and reduce the number of hospitalisations and reduce the strain on the NHS.
Look,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
I posted that on another thread but it's just as valid here. The unvaccinated are causing major problems. When you see a queue of ambulances outside A&E, when your operation is delayed, think about what not getting vaccinated means. To give that extra context, there are around 18 million who haven't had a vaccine yet, over 43 million have had both jabs so about one third of people (in Cardiff and Vale at least) are taking up 80% of critical care beds. Those figures will be a bit out but as in the UK around 65% have been vaccinated but in Wales it's very close to 70% fully vaccinated. | |
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| Covid in Israel on 10:19 - Sep 6 with 833 views | Professor |
| Covid in Israel on 09:51 - Sep 6 by controversial_jack |
The TB vaccine didn't work.There were many outbreaks after the mass immunisation programme happened. It's clear now, that vaccinations do not stop the spread. They probably mitigate the seriousness, but that's all they do. Masks, distancing and hygiene are far more important in stopping the spread. |
It depends. It worked well in Europe-with around 80% efficacy originally. A problem emerged as there were multiple variants of BCG-it's a live bacterial vaccine, some of which were less effective.
TB was also reduced by control in cattle and pasteurisation of milk.
It's a big problem though-as BCG is no longer effective in most of the world and is increasingly antibiotic resistant. It's actually Sarah Gilbert's main research area. A new TB vaccine should be a priority | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 10:27 - Sep 6 with 826 views | onehunglow |
Begs the question then,does any vaccine work. | |
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| Covid in Israel on 11:15 - Sep 6 with 814 views | controversial_jack |
| Covid in Israel on 10:27 - Sep 6 by onehunglow |
Begs the question then,does any vaccine work. |
If we look at mortality rates for every infectious disease going back over a century, they came down steadily with improvements in living conditions, sanitation, clean water, diet, medicines etc. Vaccines have only been a recent innovation, and after they were introduced, there was no significant change in the decline of mortality. Vaccines have taken the credit when it has been improvements in living conditions, hygiene, etc that have been the main factor. It;s why we are seeing a rise in cases now, because all common sense, discipline and hygiene has gone out of the window. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 12:04 - Sep 6 with 790 views | RonaldStump |
| Covid in Israel on 10:11 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
To stop the spread, yes that's part of it though it's hardly doing that. Mostly it's to ensure the majority of people don't develop serious illness and maybe die, to try and reduce the number of hospitalisations and reduce the strain on the NHS.
Look,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
I posted that on another thread but it's just as valid here. The unvaccinated are causing major problems. When you see a queue of ambulances outside A&E, when your operation is delayed, think about what not getting vaccinated means. To give that extra context, there are around 18 million who haven't had a vaccine yet, over 43 million have had both jabs so about one third of people (in Cardiff and Vale at least) are taking up 80% of critical care beds. Those figures will be a bit out but as in the UK around 65% have been vaccinated but in Wales it's very close to 70% fully vaccinated. |
So if you have very fit and healthy unvax person and a morbidly obese double jabbed person who spends his days down the pub and in the bookies.
Who do you think is more likely to be hospitalised if they contract covid ?
Yes we both know the answer to that, so to say it's unvax people causing the NHS headaches is a complete pack of lies.
You can only base it on each individual case and if their health is that important to them they won't be in hospital.
If you think you can live your life any old way you want knowing the NHS are their to save you should it go t1ts up then you only have yourself to blame.
Not someone who has made their own choice as to what goes into their body who also looks after themselves. [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 12:06]
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| Covid in Israel on 12:07 - Sep 6 with 787 views | RonaldStump |
| Covid in Israel on 09:23 - Sep 6 by onehunglow |
Were these arguments around when polio and TB were an issue for all. |
There is a difference between a real vaccine and a bit of code developed in Chy na [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 12:08]
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| Covid in Israel on 12:36 - Sep 6 with 782 views | Professor |
| Covid in Israel on 12:07 - Sep 6 by RonaldStump |
There is a difference between a real vaccine and a bit of code developed in Chy na [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 12:08]
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Enlighten us then. Tell us all about what is a real vaccine.
Because I smell BS again. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 13:12 - Sep 6 with 766 views | jackrmee |
| Covid in Israel on 10:11 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
To stop the spread, yes that's part of it though it's hardly doing that. Mostly it's to ensure the majority of people don't develop serious illness and maybe die, to try and reduce the number of hospitalisations and reduce the strain on the NHS.
Look,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
I posted that on another thread but it's just as valid here. The unvaccinated are causing major problems. When you see a queue of ambulances outside A&E, when your operation is delayed, think about what not getting vaccinated means. To give that extra context, there are around 18 million who haven't had a vaccine yet, over 43 million have had both jabs so about one third of people (in Cardiff and Vale at least) are taking up 80% of critical care beds. Those figures will be a bit out but as in the UK around 65% have been vaccinated but in Wales it's very close to 70% fully vaccinated. |
OK, 5 out of the 6 people i critical care are unvaccinated...
But how many of those are actually young people who chose not to nbe vaccinated?
I suggest that they are probably older people, which no-one is suggesting should not have the vaccine. | |
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| Covid in Israel on 14:03 - Sep 6 with 731 views | Scotia |
| Covid in Israel on 12:04 - Sep 6 by RonaldStump |
So if you have very fit and healthy unvax person and a morbidly obese double jabbed person who spends his days down the pub and in the bookies.
Who do you think is more likely to be hospitalised if they contract covid ?
Yes we both know the answer to that, so to say it's unvax people causing the NHS headaches is a complete pack of lies.
You can only base it on each individual case and if their health is that important to them they won't be in hospital.
If you think you can live your life any old way you want knowing the NHS are their to save you should it go t1ts up then you only have yourself to blame.
Not someone who has made their own choice as to what goes into their body who also looks after themselves. [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 12:06]
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So can we all stop getting older? | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 15:45 - Sep 6 with 702 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Covid in Israel on 10:11 - Sep 6 by Catullus |
To stop the spread, yes that's part of it though it's hardly doing that. Mostly it's to ensure the majority of people don't develop serious illness and maybe die, to try and reduce the number of hospitalisations and reduce the strain on the NHS.
Look,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
I posted that on another thread but it's just as valid here. The unvaccinated are causing major problems. When you see a queue of ambulances outside A&E, when your operation is delayed, think about what not getting vaccinated means. To give that extra context, there are around 18 million who haven't had a vaccine yet, over 43 million have had both jabs so about one third of people (in Cardiff and Vale at least) are taking up 80% of critical care beds. Those figures will be a bit out but as in the UK around 65% have been vaccinated but in Wales it's very close to 70% fully vaccinated. |
You have selected the data from one hospital.
How about the England & Wales data for the Delta variant?
Vaccinated hospitalised = 3153
Unvaccinated hospitalised = 4033
So a difference of 22%, but what you have to remember is that all those unvaccinated will have Natural Immunity, but the Vaccinated will not, they will continue to be infected and hospitalised at the same or higher rates until they have all (90% of the popuation) also gained natural immunity.
Unless the pandemic stops of course.
Can you honestly see an end to it, with leaky vaccines and new variants?
You also posted the BBC article about Maisy Evans the 17 year old girl who got COVID a couple of days after her first Pfizer vaccine, just like hundreds of other teenagers after their first and second vaccines.
But she doesn't believe that the vaccine had anything to do with how ill she was, she actually stated "I haven't got any underlying health conditions, so the severe symptoms are unexplained,".
No they are explained just like all the other thousands of youngsters having unexplained severe symptoms after vaccinations.
Oh, I forgot, you don't believe their is any correlation or causation between them, but thousands do. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 16:22 - Sep 6 with 693 views | Scotia |
| Covid in Israel on 15:45 - Sep 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
You have selected the data from one hospital.
How about the England & Wales data for the Delta variant?
Vaccinated hospitalised = 3153
Unvaccinated hospitalised = 4033
So a difference of 22%, but what you have to remember is that all those unvaccinated will have Natural Immunity, but the Vaccinated will not, they will continue to be infected and hospitalised at the same or higher rates until they have all (90% of the popuation) also gained natural immunity.
Unless the pandemic stops of course.
Can you honestly see an end to it, with leaky vaccines and new variants?
You also posted the BBC article about Maisy Evans the 17 year old girl who got COVID a couple of days after her first Pfizer vaccine, just like hundreds of other teenagers after their first and second vaccines.
But she doesn't believe that the vaccine had anything to do with how ill she was, she actually stated "I haven't got any underlying health conditions, so the severe symptoms are unexplained,".
No they are explained just like all the other thousands of youngsters having unexplained severe symptoms after vaccinations.
Oh, I forgot, you don't believe their is any correlation or causation between them, but thousands do. |
A difference of 22%, can't or won't you understand that is clearly demonstrating how fantastically successful these vaccines are?
Natural immunity will only last so long. When the Delta variant mutates again and natural immunity wanes, those infected will be in the same position as the current vaccinted population. Of course those that have been vaccinated won't have run the risk of death and severe illness from having contracted covid to gain that immunity.
There is no end to covid, it is here to stay. You will contract it at some point. Perhaps numerous times.
Your post about Maisy Evans is again completely misunderstood. She developed a blood clot I believe.
There have been around 15 reports of blood clots after Pfizer vaccination in the UK. 35 million doses have been given. That's about a 1 in 2 million chance. These are largely cerebral blood clots.
The risk of a cerebral blood clot is 10 times greater from catching covid than the vaccine.
Covid is as much a vascular disease as a respiratory disease. It causes blood clotting abnormalities.
Maisy Evans caught covid and developed a blood clot, as I understand in her lung, so not a cerebral blood clot associated with the vaccines.
She was very ill because of covid not the vaccine. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 17:11 - Sep 6 with 681 views | Gwyn737 |
| Covid in Israel on 16:22 - Sep 6 by Scotia |
A difference of 22%, can't or won't you understand that is clearly demonstrating how fantastically successful these vaccines are?
Natural immunity will only last so long. When the Delta variant mutates again and natural immunity wanes, those infected will be in the same position as the current vaccinted population. Of course those that have been vaccinated won't have run the risk of death and severe illness from having contracted covid to gain that immunity.
There is no end to covid, it is here to stay. You will contract it at some point. Perhaps numerous times.
Your post about Maisy Evans is again completely misunderstood. She developed a blood clot I believe.
There have been around 15 reports of blood clots after Pfizer vaccination in the UK. 35 million doses have been given. That's about a 1 in 2 million chance. These are largely cerebral blood clots.
The risk of a cerebral blood clot is 10 times greater from catching covid than the vaccine.
Covid is as much a vascular disease as a respiratory disease. It causes blood clotting abnormalities.
Maisy Evans caught covid and developed a blood clot, as I understand in her lung, so not a cerebral blood clot associated with the vaccines.
She was very ill because of covid not the vaccine. |
Those figures are absolutely fantastic, especially when you take into account the elderly and ill will be in the vaccinated figures.
I think AFD has given the best example of vaccine effectiveness so far 👠| | | |
| Covid in Israel on 18:17 - Sep 6 with 656 views | Scotia |
| Covid in Israel on 17:11 - Sep 6 by Gwyn737 |
Those figures are absolutely fantastic, especially when you take into account the elderly and ill will be in the vaccinated figures.
I think AFD has given the best example of vaccine effectiveness so far 👠|
Absolutely.
Considerably more hospitalisations occurring in just 11% of the adult population. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 19:07 - Sep 6 with 629 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Covid in Israel on 16:22 - Sep 6 by Scotia |
A difference of 22%, can't or won't you understand that is clearly demonstrating how fantastically successful these vaccines are?
Natural immunity will only last so long. When the Delta variant mutates again and natural immunity wanes, those infected will be in the same position as the current vaccinted population. Of course those that have been vaccinated won't have run the risk of death and severe illness from having contracted covid to gain that immunity.
There is no end to covid, it is here to stay. You will contract it at some point. Perhaps numerous times.
Your post about Maisy Evans is again completely misunderstood. She developed a blood clot I believe.
There have been around 15 reports of blood clots after Pfizer vaccination in the UK. 35 million doses have been given. That's about a 1 in 2 million chance. These are largely cerebral blood clots.
The risk of a cerebral blood clot is 10 times greater from catching covid than the vaccine.
Covid is as much a vascular disease as a respiratory disease. It causes blood clotting abnormalities.
Maisy Evans caught covid and developed a blood clot, as I understand in her lung, so not a cerebral blood clot associated with the vaccines.
She was very ill because of covid not the vaccine. |
Well the difference was 22% as of the 15th of August, it is now down to 16% as of the 29th of August
Vaccinated hospitalised = 4268
Unvaccinated hospitalised = 5064
You have to remember that this data if from February 1st 2021, nearly 7 months.
So that equates to 450 Vaccinated hospitalisations per month and
576 Unvaccinated hospitalisations per month.
In the last 2 weeks there has been an another 1115 Vaccinated hospitalisations and 1031 Unvaccinated hospitalisations which equates to 2230/month for Vaccinated hospitalisations and 2062/month UnVaccinated hospitalisations.
The increases per month are down to the Delta variant.
The shift to more vaccinated per month that has taken place is most likely due to the waning Immunity of the vaccines to the Delta variant and it is likely to continue at an accelerating rate matching the vaccination programme.
Based on the Israeli data they are going to need to start the Boosters next month and they need to start with those vaccinated first, especially with the pfizer vaccine. [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 19:54]
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| Covid in Israel on 21:13 - Sep 6 with 601 views | Scotia |
| Covid in Israel on 19:07 - Sep 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well the difference was 22% as of the 15th of August, it is now down to 16% as of the 29th of August
Vaccinated hospitalised = 4268
Unvaccinated hospitalised = 5064
You have to remember that this data if from February 1st 2021, nearly 7 months.
So that equates to 450 Vaccinated hospitalisations per month and
576 Unvaccinated hospitalisations per month.
In the last 2 weeks there has been an another 1115 Vaccinated hospitalisations and 1031 Unvaccinated hospitalisations which equates to 2230/month for Vaccinated hospitalisations and 2062/month UnVaccinated hospitalisations.
The increases per month are down to the Delta variant.
The shift to more vaccinated per month that has taken place is most likely due to the waning Immunity of the vaccines to the Delta variant and it is likely to continue at an accelerating rate matching the vaccination programme.
Based on the Israeli data they are going to need to start the Boosters next month and they need to start with those vaccinated first, especially with the pfizer vaccine. [Post edited 6 Sep 2021 19:54]
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So still 16% more unvaccinated patients despite more people being vaccinated? 90% more people being vaccinated.
Do you realise this proves how effective the vaccines are?
I had my second Pfizer dose on March 3rd. I'm very confident that I won't get severe covid, I am expecting another appointment for a booster before Xmas, and many more after that. | | | |
| Covid in Israel on 22:37 - Sep 6 with 561 views | majorraglan |
| Covid in Israel on 21:13 - Sep 6 by Scotia |
So still 16% more unvaccinated patients despite more people being vaccinated? 90% more people being vaccinated.
Do you realise this proves how effective the vaccines are?
I had my second Pfizer dose on March 3rd. I'm very confident that I won't get severe covid, I am expecting another appointment for a booster before Xmas, and many more after that. |
I think you’ll get that appointment before Christmas. The infrastructure is now in place to deliver the programme very quickly. The vaccine centres have been established and Some Health boards have employed Non Registered Vaccinators to assist in delivering the vaccines. There’s also the flu jab to factor in, but I reckon the priority groups will be vaccinated a lot quicker than they were last time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/ | | | |
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