| Another US school shooting on 07:23 - May 25 with 2791 views | Gwyn737 |
That’s the 369th school shootings since the atrocity at Dunblaine.
Makes you wonder what could possibly make things change? |  | |  |
| Another US school shooting on 07:26 - May 25 with 2781 views | Dr_Parnassus |
You know Presidents don't have that power... don't you? It's their constitution.
But again, another poster using such a tragedy to point score politically is pretty abhorrent. Gun laws have been in America since the late 1700's.
Since 1800 there has been 17 Democrat Presidents, Biden being prompted to utter some words doesn't change anything and won't change anything.
The people will decide what they want. Any proposed amendment to the Constitution has to be passed by both the House and the Senate with two thirds majorities. It would then need to be ratified by three fourths of the 50 states.
What the current Presidents personal views on gun laws are, is neither here nor there. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 07:55 - May 25 with 2760 views | CountyJim |
Surely for the sake of these children even the hardest gun supporter realise ffs |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 08:06 - May 25 with 2748 views | Kilkennyjack |
Come on Joe, do the right thing.
This has to be prevented.
I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ?
Shirley they have to start somewhere in reducing the number of guns in circulation and that alone would take 30 years or more. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Another US school shooting on 08:08 - May 25 with 2739 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 07:55 - May 25 by CountyJim |
Surely for the sake of these children even the hardest gun supporter realise ffs |
It's not as easy as that.
Even if the people decided they no longer wanted gun laws. The people with bad intentions would still have them.
There are round about 400 million guns in the US. Those that would be handing them back in some form of amnesty would be the law abiding citizens and responsible gun owners.
You then face a situation where kids like the one above and other criminals are armed and everyone else is unarmed. So it's a bit of a vicious cycle.
Good chance I will be moving there in the next year or two with work. I'd rather have one accessible than not in that climate with serious crime rates rising. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 08:09 - May 25 with 2746 views | AguycalledJack |
| Another US school shooting on 08:06 - May 25 by Kilkennyjack |
Come on Joe, do the right thing.
This has to be prevented.
I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ?
Shirley they have to start somewhere in reducing the number of guns in circulation and that alone would take 30 years or more. |
Just read out a stat on tv that in America 22 teenagers/children a day die because of shootings. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 08:21 - May 25 with 2734 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Another US school shooting on 08:06 - May 25 by Kilkennyjack |
Come on Joe, do the right thing.
This has to be prevented.
I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ?
Shirley they have to start somewhere in reducing the number of guns in circulation and that alone would take 30 years or more. |
400 million guns in the USA more than 1 per person, very difficult to address. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 11:26 - May 25 with 2658 views | A_Fans_Dad |
"At least the current POTUS has spoken out against guns and said something needs to be done."
"That’s the 369th school shootings since the atrocity at Dunblaine. "
Let's contrast what the various governments and especially Biden have done during that time to their reaction to a so called insurrection at the capitol building where the only people killed were unarmed insurrectionists shot or beaten to death by the capitol police.
Schools, not much, most of them in "No gun zones", but lately calls to defund the police.
Compared to the Capitol Building, high razor wire topped fencing and up to 25,000 fully armed troops surrounding the area.
They know how to ensure the safety of the people that really matter to them, despite their talk. [Post edited 25 May 2022 11:27]
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| Another US school shooting on 11:30 - May 25 with 2649 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Another US school shooting on 08:06 - May 25 by Kilkennyjack |
Come on Joe, do the right thing.
This has to be prevented.
I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ?
Shirley they have to start somewhere in reducing the number of guns in circulation and that alone would take 30 years or more. |
"I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ? "
No they are scared of all the low lifes who already have guns and knives on their person all day every day and no compunction about using them. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 11:39 - May 25 with 2645 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Another US school shooting on 11:30 - May 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
"I saw that Florida has just gone in a direction that gives people the right to open carry. Why ?
Are they scared of life ? "
No they are scared of all the low lifes who already have guns and knives on their person all day every day and no compunction about using them. |
What are the statistics of "low lifes" being shot in self defence. I have no idea. Does it happen frequently?. It does not make news if it happens. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Another US school shooting on 13:31 - May 25 with 2608 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Another US school shooting on 11:39 - May 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What are the statistics of "low lifes" being shot in self defence. I have no idea. Does it happen frequently?. It does not make news if it happens. |
It appears to be approximately 2.5% of all firearm fatalities in the past.
But how many homocides are committed with illegal guns?
According to this politifact (which seems to be favoured by posters on here) article
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/12/john-faso/do-illegal-gun-owner
It would appear that the higher the restrictions the more illegal guns are used, so the restriction and checks work, but guns are still obtained. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 13:38 - May 25 with 2590 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 13:31 - May 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
It appears to be approximately 2.5% of all firearm fatalities in the past.
But how many homocides are committed with illegal guns?
According to this politifact (which seems to be favoured by posters on here) article
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/12/john-faso/do-illegal-gun-owner
It would appear that the higher the restrictions the more illegal guns are used, so the restriction and checks work, but guns are still obtained. |
Yep the damage is already done with decades of gun production. You can’t just revoke 400 million guns.
All you will be doing is taking arms away from the good people who can no longer protect themselves against the guns of the bad.
You can put as many regulations in place as you like; but if someone wants to do something like this in a country with so many guns in circulation then they will find a way to get one illegally.
People seem to think you can just pass a law and then that’s that, problem solved. Not even close to the truth.
If you banned knife purchases in London for anyone under 18, does anyone really think knife carrying among youths would be affected? No way.
There are already too many knives in circulation and if someone wants one they will get one. Same in America just replace knives with guns. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 13:51 - May 25 with 2596 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another US school shooting on 13:38 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep the damage is already done with decades of gun production. You can’t just revoke 400 million guns.
All you will be doing is taking arms away from the good people who can no longer protect themselves against the guns of the bad.
You can put as many regulations in place as you like; but if someone wants to do something like this in a country with so many guns in circulation then they will find a way to get one illegally.
People seem to think you can just pass a law and then that’s that, problem solved. Not even close to the truth.
If you banned knife purchases in London for anyone under 18, does anyone really think knife carrying among youths would be affected? No way.
There are already too many knives in circulation and if someone wants one they will get one. Same in America just replace knives with guns. |
So why do we bother having laws if people just break them if they want to (or can)? | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 13:52 - May 25 with 2592 views | onehunglow |
| Another US school shooting on 13:38 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep the damage is already done with decades of gun production. You can’t just revoke 400 million guns.
All you will be doing is taking arms away from the good people who can no longer protect themselves against the guns of the bad.
You can put as many regulations in place as you like; but if someone wants to do something like this in a country with so many guns in circulation then they will find a way to get one illegally.
People seem to think you can just pass a law and then that’s that, problem solved. Not even close to the truth.
If you banned knife purchases in London for anyone under 18, does anyone really think knife carrying among youths would be affected? No way.
There are already too many knives in circulation and if someone wants one they will get one. Same in America just replace knives with guns. |
That is a very good post Dr P.
The core issue is the fact Americans see gun owning and use as a constitutional right notwithtanding the Constitution was drafted when America itself was being forged by the gun.
I suppose Americans really haven't grown up. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 14:08 - May 25 with 2574 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 13:51 - May 25 by Gwyn737 |
So why do we bother having laws if people just break them if they want to (or can)? |
I suppose it’s like saying why do we have prisons if we have laws? | |
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| Another US school shooting on 14:13 - May 25 with 2580 views | BryanSwan |
Wasnt the original intention to in effect create a citizen militia and a ready made army for times of conflict?
In recent history there has never been the need for guns, but Americas insistance on being the "land of the free" and doing what they want has lead to this catastrophe.
Ban all guns, offer amnesty to turn them in with cash being paid. Any guns held after that point illegally carries a long prison sentence. If it sounds simple it is because it is.
America and Americans just cannot admit to being wrong. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 14:19 - May 25 with 2566 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 14:13 - May 25 by BryanSwan |
Wasnt the original intention to in effect create a citizen militia and a ready made army for times of conflict?
In recent history there has never been the need for guns, but Americas insistance on being the "land of the free" and doing what they want has lead to this catastrophe.
Ban all guns, offer amnesty to turn them in with cash being paid. Any guns held after that point illegally carries a long prison sentence. If it sounds simple it is because it is.
America and Americans just cannot admit to being wrong. |
Not really, its inception is to stop tyranny and Government overreach.
It allows the citizens to rise up against a Putin like figure should the Government turn on their own people. There not being a need for them yet is a good thing, not really an argument to take them away.
It really is not as simple as you claim. Do you really think someone intent on shooting up a mass gathering is going to be put off by the threat of prison? Or drug dealers? Or gang members?
As has been said, the only people who will be handing their guns back are law abiding citizens… who aren’t the threat anyway. The mentally ill and the criminally minded aren’t going to be put off by the threat of prison.
What you seem to be missing is there is already long prison sentences for anyone who misuses a gun.
So if that threat of long prison sentences isn’t working for those who commit these atrocities, why will the threat of prison sentences for owning a gun stop them? It won’t.
Taking the guns out of responsible owners and putting them in the hands of criminals. [Post edited 25 May 2022 14:22]
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| Another US school shooting on 14:40 - May 25 with 2545 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 14:19 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not really, its inception is to stop tyranny and Government overreach.
It allows the citizens to rise up against a Putin like figure should the Government turn on their own people. There not being a need for them yet is a good thing, not really an argument to take them away.
It really is not as simple as you claim. Do you really think someone intent on shooting up a mass gathering is going to be put off by the threat of prison? Or drug dealers? Or gang members?
As has been said, the only people who will be handing their guns back are law abiding citizens… who aren’t the threat anyway. The mentally ill and the criminally minded aren’t going to be put off by the threat of prison.
What you seem to be missing is there is already long prison sentences for anyone who misuses a gun.
So if that threat of long prison sentences isn’t working for those who commit these atrocities, why will the threat of prison sentences for owning a gun stop them? It won’t.
Taking the guns out of responsible owners and putting them in the hands of criminals. [Post edited 25 May 2022 14:22]
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The problem is your view and that is the one held by most Americans, nobody should have a gun it is not needed, responsible owner or not.
Unless guns are banned and ownership becomes illegal many more will die.
Do you really believe there is a place for such gun ownership in a modern society? | |
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| Another US school shooting on 14:41 - May 25 with 2545 views | Gwyn737 |
| Another US school shooting on 14:08 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
I suppose it’s like saying why do we have prisons if we have laws? |
Exactly. We know laws won't stop all wrong doing so we add additioanl safeguards.
Saying you can't totally eradicate a problem from society, so why bother doing anything doesn't wash. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 15:16 - May 25 with 2506 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 14:41 - May 25 by Gwyn737 |
Exactly. We know laws won't stop all wrong doing so we add additioanl safeguards.
Saying you can't totally eradicate a problem from society, so why bother doing anything doesn't wash. |
It’s not about totally eradicating the problem, it’s about not touching the problem.
The problem isn’t gun ownership, the problem is people deciding to kill other people.
Making the first bit illegal won’t affect the second part. It’s the second part that is the problem. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 15:18 - May 25 with 2504 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 14:40 - May 25 by BryanSwan |
The problem is your view and that is the one held by most Americans, nobody should have a gun it is not needed, responsible owner or not.
Unless guns are banned and ownership becomes illegal many more will die.
Do you really believe there is a place for such gun ownership in a modern society? |
I don’t understand your view at all.
Again, why would making guns illegal stop people killing other people? Does making drugs illegal stop people that want to take drugs from taking drugs? Ironically some say accessing drugs in prison can be easier than on the street.
All you are doing is taking law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves away from armed criminals. Funnily enough criminals don’t tend to be bothered about what is and isn’t illegal.
The country already has 400 million guns in it. Whoever wants one will get one, illegal or not. Those that will require them under these situations will be criminals - to which normal people will then want to protect themselves against - and thus the issue continues. [Post edited 25 May 2022 15:54]
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| Another US school shooting on 15:54 - May 25 with 2490 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 15:18 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t understand your view at all.
Again, why would making guns illegal stop people killing other people? Does making drugs illegal stop people that want to take drugs from taking drugs? Ironically some say accessing drugs in prison can be easier than on the street.
All you are doing is taking law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves away from armed criminals. Funnily enough criminals don’t tend to be bothered about what is and isn’t illegal.
The country already has 400 million guns in it. Whoever wants one will get one, illegal or not. Those that will require them under these situations will be criminals - to which normal people will then want to protect themselves against - and thus the issue continues. [Post edited 25 May 2022 15:54]
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Everyone having a gun makes it safer? Think ive heard it all now.
Nutters will always kill people, but removing ease of access to military weaponry reduces the damage.
Australias gun amnesty and banning of guns seems to have gone quite well. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 16:00 - May 25 with 2473 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 15:54 - May 25 by BryanSwan |
Everyone having a gun makes it safer? Think ive heard it all now.
Nutters will always kill people, but removing ease of access to military weaponry reduces the damage.
Australias gun amnesty and banning of guns seems to have gone quite well. |
It’s not the options though, that’s fantasy.
There is no option to take everyone’s guns away or let them keep them. Those aren’t the two options that will ever be available because the first one is impossible.
The real scenario is:-
- Make guns illegal which will make responsible owners that aren’t causing the problems turn them in, leaving them in the hands of the people that DO cause the problems.
- Continue as it is where the ones that cause the problems have them, but so do responsible owners that protect their families from these people.
Again, illegal or not - those that wish to cause harm will source a gun regardless of whether it is illegal or illegal in a country that has 400 million of them knocking about.
That’s just the reality of the matter.
In terms of Australia, there are 3.5 million registered guns in the country of 20 million. There isn’t an epidemic level mental health problem, if there was then someone could certainly pick up one of those weapons easily enough.
There have been several shootings in Bankstown and the like whilst I’ve lived in Australia. There is nothing stopping those perpetrators shooting a school up like this example in the OP. The mentality is different - that’s the crux of the issue.
If someone wants to cause harm then they will. You have to get to the reason behind why they want to as opposed to their chosen method to carry out their crazy thoughts. [Post edited 25 May 2022 16:04]
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| Another US school shooting on 16:12 - May 25 with 2465 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 16:00 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not the options though, that’s fantasy.
There is no option to take everyone’s guns away or let them keep them. Those aren’t the two options that will ever be available because the first one is impossible.
The real scenario is:-
- Make guns illegal which will make responsible owners that aren’t causing the problems turn them in, leaving them in the hands of the people that DO cause the problems.
- Continue as it is where the ones that cause the problems have them, but so do responsible owners that protect their families from these people.
Again, illegal or not - those that wish to cause harm will source a gun regardless of whether it is illegal or illegal in a country that has 400 million of them knocking about.
That’s just the reality of the matter.
In terms of Australia, there are 3.5 million registered guns in the country of 20 million. There isn’t an epidemic level mental health problem, if there was then someone could certainly pick up one of those weapons easily enough.
There have been several shootings in Bankstown and the like whilst I’ve lived in Australia. There is nothing stopping those perpetrators shooting a school up like this example in the OP. The mentality is different - that’s the crux of the issue.
If someone wants to cause harm then they will. You have to get to the reason behind why they want to as opposed to their chosen method to carry out their crazy thoughts. [Post edited 25 May 2022 16:04]
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A man without a gun can cause a lot less damage than one with a gun, it is simple.
Americans just do not want to give up their precious guns. It matters not how many children die so long as they can keep their guns.
If you dont address a problem it remains a problem. | |
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