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For comparison, some players I have witnessed improving due to (I suspect) the quality of the coaching...
1 - Leon Britton. Learnt the role of a defensive-midfielder, playmaker in front of our eyes. No coincidence that his manager Martinez had played that role...Leon surpassed him of course, which is what a manager is trying to achieve.
2 - Garry Monk Very limited footballer, took on board what the manager wanted to see from him and adapted to play at a level I wouldn't have thought him capable of playing.
3 - Alan Tate (See Garry Monk)
4 - Nathan Dyer Came to us very raw. Didn't know how to use his abilities effectively, learnt a new style and improved himself (helped that he had Rangel behind him)
5 - Joey Allen Went from being neat and tidy, busy, to being an attacking threat as well under Brendan.
6 - Ben Davies Didn't look like he had it if I'm honest, but Laudrup and his boys taught Ben how to be a Premier League footballer...improved week on week, truly remarkable growth.
7 - Wayne Routledge Laudrup unlocked his talent from where I was sitting. Had flattered to deceive, some good tools but nothing more than solid. Laudrup turned him into a creative dynamo between the lines.
8. Connor Roberts When he broke in he looked solid, good engine, willing runner. Over the next 3 years, under Potter and Cooper he was taught to believe in himself and attack at the right times.
9. Daniel James Just pace, no end product was the criticism. We watched him learn how to be composed when shooting and (the thing I was most impressed by) to deliver excellent crosses with his left foot. Potter and his team I believe.
10. Marc Guehi I couldn't believe how bad he was when he came in, 'yes he is strong and quick enough but he is no footballer' I thought. Made bizarre decisions. We watched Cooper and his team first teach him how to be a rock solid, no frills, defender at this level...and then we watched as he learnt to play it out from the back and bring the ball forward (committing men). Massive turnaround.
...when trying to think of a player that improved under Martin the best I can come up with is Patterson, briefly.
Russell Martin coaching on 22:16 - Aug 3 by Kerouac
For comparison, some players I have witnessed improving due to (I suspect) the quality of the coaching...
1 - Leon Britton. Learnt the role of a defensive-midfielder, playmaker in front of our eyes. No coincidence that his manager Martinez had played that role...Leon surpassed him of course, which is what a manager is trying to achieve.
2 - Garry Monk Very limited footballer, took on board what the manager wanted to see from him and adapted to play at a level I wouldn't have thought him capable of playing.
3 - Alan Tate (See Garry Monk)
4 - Nathan Dyer Came to us very raw. Didn't know how to use his abilities effectively, learnt a new style and improved himself (helped that he had Rangel behind him)
5 - Joey Allen Went from being neat and tidy, busy, to being an attacking threat as well under Brendan.
6 - Ben Davies Didn't look like he had it if I'm honest, but Laudrup and his boys taught Ben how to be a Premier League footballer...improved week on week, truly remarkable growth.
7 - Wayne Routledge Laudrup unlocked his talent from where I was sitting. Had flattered to deceive, some good tools but nothing more than solid. Laudrup turned him into a creative dynamo between the lines.
8. Connor Roberts When he broke in he looked solid, good engine, willing runner. Over the next 3 years, under Potter and Cooper he was taught to believe in himself and attack at the right times.
9. Daniel James Just pace, no end product was the criticism. We watched him learn how to be composed when shooting and (the thing I was most impressed by) to deliver excellent crosses with his left foot. Potter and his team I believe.
10. Marc Guehi I couldn't believe how bad he was when he came in, 'yes he is strong and quick enough but he is no footballer' I thought. Made bizarre decisions. We watched Cooper and his team first teach him how to be a rock solid, no frills, defender at this level...and then we watched as he learnt to play it out from the back and bring the ball forward (committing men). Massive turnaround.
...when trying to think of a player that improved under Martin the best I can come up with is Patterson, briefly.
Leon roomed with Martinez at away games and spent all their spare time analysing games. Probably helped Leon become the player he was.
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Russell Martin coaching on 22:26 - Aug 3 with 1508 views
Russell Martin coaching on 21:47 - Aug 3 by Dr_Parnassus
Indeed, same with Darling.
He will be off for big money. He was a special player last season too.
Big clubs will often let a championship club take the plunge first to see if they sink or swim. If they swim then they are happy to pay the premium that comes with it.
Whatever the pundits think players do seem to want to follow Martin from club to club. O'Reilly was another who it was reported was keen to come. It is an important aspect of being a sucessfull manager.
One hopes Martin is smart enough to adapt his methods There were not many examples of Swansea's style getting other teams out on their feet late on in games. In fact the opposite was true with 3 second half collapses v Reading AFCB and Forest concededing 1o0 goals in 135 mins. Hopefully he and the analysts have figured it out.
Russell Martin coaching on 22:26 - Aug 3 by ReslovenSwan1
Whatever the pundits think players do seem to want to follow Martin from club to club. O'Reilly was another who it was reported was keen to come. It is an important aspect of being a sucessfull manager.
One hopes Martin is smart enough to adapt his methods There were not many examples of Swansea's style getting other teams out on their feet late on in games. In fact the opposite was true with 3 second half collapses v Reading AFCB and Forest concededing 1o0 goals in 135 mins. Hopefully he and the analysts have figured it out.
Because it’s a stepping stone and an easy way to multiply your pay packet.
Most people have ambition to play as high as possible and earn as much as possible. If Martin took a step down to League 2, do you think the MK Dons boys would be so eager to join? Clearly not.
Fisher for example was on £1500 at MK Dons and now estimated to be on £10,000. Would he get that chance without following Martin? Unlikely.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Russell Martin coaching on 21:44 - Aug 3 by Dr_Parnassus
Trying to achieve something and having the ability to achieve something are completely different things.
This is now his 4th year as manager and he hasn’t had a single successful season.
I think at this stage it’s more likely that he doesn’t understand what he’s trying to achieve.
In addition to this.
Just to get back the “what he’s trying to achieve” thing that keeps getting repeated.
Should we start Cullen every game because we can see he is trying to achieve his goal of becoming a good striker?
When did “trying to achieve” something trump ones actual ability to, when it comes to giving people jobs and chances?
Aidan Newhouse was trying to achieve his goal of being a good footballer. Bob Bradley was trying to achieve success for both himself and the club etc etc etc
Trying to achieve something is useless unless you CAN achieve it. And if you can achieve it then you need to show it in a timely manner. This is now his 4th season as manager and is the 8th longest serving one in the Championship currently.
The time to show what he can achieve is now. No more excuses.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Sorry just watched this. Normally I can’t - but saw it was a short clip so gave it a go.
“Eventually… they will stop running” (?!!!!???!!!??!!)
“Defend your box with mentality” (?!??!!???!!!!???)
Does anyone remember the show “faking it”? I think there was a group of 4 people, 3 pros and 1 who has never done that thing in their lives. They get trained up for like 6 weeks then a group of people come in and have to see if they can spot the one that is “faking it”.
This reminds me of an episode from that. There is no technical communication at all. It’s just words that mean nothing and solutions that appear devoid of actual reality.
“Eventually they will stop running” is such a negative way of thinking about the game. Instead of taking them on from the off and challenging them that we are better than them. His tactic is essentially to condense a 90 minute game into a 20 minute game, hope we have survived until the 70th minute and then hope they are tired by the end where we have a short window to capitalise.
Just awful.
“Defend your box with mentality” is a prime example of someone telling someone to do something without the ability to tell them how.
Depressing.
Similar to how I felt when I saw Bob Bradley teaching the players to make 5 yard passes in the most basic of drills.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Russell Martin coaching on 22:59 - Aug 3 by Dr_Parnassus
Jesus…
Sorry just watched this. Normally I can’t - but saw it was a short clip so gave it a go.
“Eventually… they will stop running” (?!!!!???!!!??!!)
“Defend your box with mentality” (?!??!!???!!!!???)
Does anyone remember the show “faking it”? I think there was a group of 4 people, 3 pros and 1 who has never done that thing in their lives. They get trained up for like 6 weeks then a group of people come in and have to see if they can spot the one that is “faking it”.
This reminds me of an episode from that. There is no technical communication at all. It’s just words that mean nothing and solutions that appear devoid of actual reality.
“Eventually they will stop running” is such a negative way of thinking about the game. Instead of taking them on from the off and challenging them that we are better than them. His tactic is essentially to condense a 90 minute game into a 20 minute game, hope we have survived until the 70th minute and then hope they are tired by the end where we have a short window to capitalise.
Just awful.
“Defend your box with mentality” is a prime example of someone telling someone to do something without the ability to tell them how.
Depressing.
Similar to how I felt when I saw Bob Bradley teaching the players to make 5 yard passes in the most basic of drills.
"Defend your box with mentality” is a prime example of someone telling someone to do something without the ability to tell them how."
Exactly Doc. Obviously, he was a pro, so he had the tools to be useful in the professional game. I will give him credit for a good career...
...but it doesn't mean you possess the skill of being able to teach.
I think the best coaches are ex-players (whether that be pro or semi-pro, it doesn't seem to matter) who did not rely on their physical attributes when they played.
Players who were thinkers. Players who are having an intelligent conversation with themselves in their head as they play. The anticipators. Those who make those around them play better by pulling the strings and leading them. Those who work out their own weaknesses and find ways to compensate for them. Those who work out their opponents weaknesses during the game, in real time, and have the nous to work out how to exploit those weaknesses. The canny. The players with the vision to play killer balls...as this involves an appreciation of the whole picture during the game. Those who see the danger developing and consistently make correct defensive decisions.
These people can take a bunch of athletes with great physical attributes and give them the piece that they are missing, improving them as footballers by teaching them to be engaged mentally...
If you have ex-players who rely on their pace, strength, ability in the air, finishing ability etc. as managers...they tend to be people who aren't thinking deeply about the game.
I have no idea how Russell Martin was as a player, I don't remember him, so can't pass judgement...but that video above shows somebody who is incoherent and poor at expressing his ideas. I am not fooled by the shine of the teeth as he smiles or the pretentious language of a 'Guardian' reader in his interviews.
Russell Martin coaching on 20:19 - Aug 3 by union_jack
What did make me laugh was one of the coaches checking the time on his watch as Martin was mid flowðŸ˜
A picture paints a thousand words, the other coach just staring into space, clearly zoned out.
When he asked if anyone had anything to add behind him, there was just blank expression and silence.
I was expecting one of them to panic and snap out of the trance they were in and say “ahem, yep, yep agree with all that Russ. I’d have said much the same”.
[Post edited 4 Aug 2022 3:48]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Russell Martin coaching on 03:47 - Aug 4 by Dr_Parnassus
A picture paints a thousand words, the other coach just staring into space, clearly zoned out.
When he asked if anyone had anything to add behind him, there was just blank expression and silence.
I was expecting one of them to panic and snap out of the trance they were in and say “ahem, yep, yep agree with all that Russ. I’d have said much the same”.
[Post edited 4 Aug 2022 3:48]
I thought he asked “anything Gills?”
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Russell Martin coaching on 09:43 - Aug 4 with 1223 views
Russell Martin coaching on 22:59 - Aug 3 by Dr_Parnassus
Jesus…
Sorry just watched this. Normally I can’t - but saw it was a short clip so gave it a go.
“Eventually… they will stop running” (?!!!!???!!!??!!)
“Defend your box with mentality” (?!??!!???!!!!???)
Does anyone remember the show “faking it”? I think there was a group of 4 people, 3 pros and 1 who has never done that thing in their lives. They get trained up for like 6 weeks then a group of people come in and have to see if they can spot the one that is “faking it”.
This reminds me of an episode from that. There is no technical communication at all. It’s just words that mean nothing and solutions that appear devoid of actual reality.
“Eventually they will stop running” is such a negative way of thinking about the game. Instead of taking them on from the off and challenging them that we are better than them. His tactic is essentially to condense a 90 minute game into a 20 minute game, hope we have survived until the 70th minute and then hope they are tired by the end where we have a short window to capitalise.
Just awful.
“Defend your box with mentality” is a prime example of someone telling someone to do something without the ability to tell them how.
Depressing.
Similar to how I felt when I saw Bob Bradley teaching the players to make 5 yard passes in the most basic of drills.
It is surprising how many professional players cannot pass accurately for 5m. Doing drills on this would be appropriate for some.
Bob Bradley must have something about him. A manager almost continually fo the last 25 years tells me he has qualities in the right settings.
Russell Martin coaching on 21:44 - Aug 3 by Dr_Parnassus
Trying to achieve something and having the ability to achieve something are completely different things.
This is now his 4th year as manager and he hasn’t had a single successful season.
I think at this stage it’s more likely that he doesn’t understand what he’s trying to achieve.
As you say its Martins 4th season in management , we have had other "rookie" managers in the past who in their 4th season had led us though successive promotions,ending up in the old Div1
Another who took us to within a whisker of the play offs in his first season then got us promoted as champions in his second season picking up several Manager of the Month awards along the way.
Another rookie manager who took us to 6th and the play offs in his first season of senior management and then to the play off final in his second season.
Martin must be a Svengali the way he has posters defending him...he has yet to finish higher than 12th in any league.....borrowing something pointed out by a poster on PS we fininshed 14th last season with a side that included a midfielder just sold for £12M and two strikers being valued at around £10M.
He needs to ensure we have 17 points at the 10 point mark.....that shows the "process" is working
Russell Martin coaching on 15:07 - Aug 4 by vetchonian
As you say its Martins 4th season in management , we have had other "rookie" managers in the past who in their 4th season had led us though successive promotions,ending up in the old Div1
Another who took us to within a whisker of the play offs in his first season then got us promoted as champions in his second season picking up several Manager of the Month awards along the way.
Another rookie manager who took us to 6th and the play offs in his first season of senior management and then to the play off final in his second season.
Martin must be a Svengali the way he has posters defending him...he has yet to finish higher than 12th in any league.....borrowing something pointed out by a poster on PS we fininshed 14th last season with a side that included a midfielder just sold for £12M and two strikers being valued at around £10M.
He needs to ensure we have 17 points at the 10 point mark.....that shows the "process" is working
I didn't know that you didn't like Martin.
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Russell Martin coaching on 16:23 - Aug 4 with 1015 views
Russell Martin coaching on 15:07 - Aug 4 by vetchonian
As you say its Martins 4th season in management , we have had other "rookie" managers in the past who in their 4th season had led us though successive promotions,ending up in the old Div1
Another who took us to within a whisker of the play offs in his first season then got us promoted as champions in his second season picking up several Manager of the Month awards along the way.
Another rookie manager who took us to 6th and the play offs in his first season of senior management and then to the play off final in his second season.
Martin must be a Svengali the way he has posters defending him...he has yet to finish higher than 12th in any league.....borrowing something pointed out by a poster on PS we fininshed 14th last season with a side that included a midfielder just sold for £12M and two strikers being valued at around £10M.
He needs to ensure we have 17 points at the 10 point mark.....that shows the "process" is working
Challenging top 2 then?
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Russell Martin coaching on 15:18 - Aug 4 by Fireboy2
I didn't know that you didn't like Martin.
I have no problem with him as a person . He seems like Svengali the way he seems to have some on here enthusing over him..
ITs all about opinions though in my opinion he is taking us backwards...I have said previously lets wait to see where we are after 10 games..Like you I have a great love for our club and the team. I love to see us win and succeed....last season was the dullest we have had for a long time at least under Potter we had the FA Cup semi final ,then two seasons on the play offs followed by a low midtable finish and no end of season flourish. I dont buy into theis player on the beach crap....and why not use those closing games to blood some youngsters?
Im sorry I dont believe Martin has it...he is a good talker but he says the same thing over and over again...we dominated possesion last season finishing top of that table but what did that yield in wins?
I dont deny there were moments where it looked like things were working ...going 3 nil up at home to Bournemouth...only for it all to go pear shaped....and again at Reading.
Martin is trying to play a system which by his own admission is played by other teams....after 3 seasons in management it has not brought him success apart from topping the possession stats table. He seems unwilling to learn he is now in his fourth season..allbeit only his third full season .
His system returned him 18 wins, 11, draws, 17 losses in Lg 1 last season we had 16 wins,.13 draws,17 losses...
Its not the man its his "process" I have a problem with and now it seems this process is not to be measured. Also we have fans lowering their expectaions....and coming out with multiple excuses for why we shouldnt expect success. The football was' nt all that entertaining last season either..it was not Matinezesque or Laudrup esque.
Russell Martin coaching on 16:23 - Aug 4 by vetchonian
I have no problem with him as a person . He seems like Svengali the way he seems to have some on here enthusing over him..
ITs all about opinions though in my opinion he is taking us backwards...I have said previously lets wait to see where we are after 10 games..Like you I have a great love for our club and the team. I love to see us win and succeed....last season was the dullest we have had for a long time at least under Potter we had the FA Cup semi final ,then two seasons on the play offs followed by a low midtable finish and no end of season flourish. I dont buy into theis player on the beach crap....and why not use those closing games to blood some youngsters?
Im sorry I dont believe Martin has it...he is a good talker but he says the same thing over and over again...we dominated possesion last season finishing top of that table but what did that yield in wins?
I dont deny there were moments where it looked like things were working ...going 3 nil up at home to Bournemouth...only for it all to go pear shaped....and again at Reading.
Martin is trying to play a system which by his own admission is played by other teams....after 3 seasons in management it has not brought him success apart from topping the possession stats table. He seems unwilling to learn he is now in his fourth season..allbeit only his third full season .
His system returned him 18 wins, 11, draws, 17 losses in Lg 1 last season we had 16 wins,.13 draws,17 losses...
Its not the man its his "process" I have a problem with and now it seems this process is not to be measured. Also we have fans lowering their expectaions....and coming out with multiple excuses for why we shouldnt expect success. The football was' nt all that entertaining last season either..it was not Matinezesque or Laudrup esque.
😴
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Russell Martin coaching on 16:55 - Aug 4 with 987 views
Russell Martin coaching on 16:23 - Aug 4 by raynor94
Challenging top 2 then?
17 points from 10 if extrapolated would give us 78 points last seasons 6th place had 75 points... we have as has been said a strike force being valued at £25M how many of our competitors have the same?
!7 points is an improvement on the 14 points we achieved in the last 10 games of last season.
After Martins first 10 games we had 10 points an average of a point per game as the season closed we were average 1.4 so a 40% improvement I have targeted a 30% improvement for the beginning of this...other wise its not a "process" as processes are measurable. He has had 46 league games a couple of cup games and a full preseason...we have added Wood and Darling and brought in Sorinola another player used to working with Martin we hopefully will still have Obafemi and Piroe
Russell Martin coaching on 16:23 - Aug 4 by vetchonian
I have no problem with him as a person . He seems like Svengali the way he seems to have some on here enthusing over him..
ITs all about opinions though in my opinion he is taking us backwards...I have said previously lets wait to see where we are after 10 games..Like you I have a great love for our club and the team. I love to see us win and succeed....last season was the dullest we have had for a long time at least under Potter we had the FA Cup semi final ,then two seasons on the play offs followed by a low midtable finish and no end of season flourish. I dont buy into theis player on the beach crap....and why not use those closing games to blood some youngsters?
Im sorry I dont believe Martin has it...he is a good talker but he says the same thing over and over again...we dominated possesion last season finishing top of that table but what did that yield in wins?
I dont deny there were moments where it looked like things were working ...going 3 nil up at home to Bournemouth...only for it all to go pear shaped....and again at Reading.
Martin is trying to play a system which by his own admission is played by other teams....after 3 seasons in management it has not brought him success apart from topping the possession stats table. He seems unwilling to learn he is now in his fourth season..allbeit only his third full season .
His system returned him 18 wins, 11, draws, 17 losses in Lg 1 last season we had 16 wins,.13 draws,17 losses...
Its not the man its his "process" I have a problem with and now it seems this process is not to be measured. Also we have fans lowering their expectaions....and coming out with multiple excuses for why we shouldnt expect success. The football was' nt all that entertaining last season either..it was not Matinezesque or Laudrup esque.
They just don’t get it do they Vetchy. They share the concerns but won’t admit it on this forum. Fireman wants us to be successful and like all he wants it badly.
Martin is NOT successful apart from selling himself
Success is about the glory. We ve had none that would justify this crazy love
One season and one game in, and the negative posters abound. Martin has done well with the likes of Piroe, Obafemi and Downes and based on last week Fisher, Wood and Darling. Yet some will give him no credit and cannot wait for him to go. Would be lovely if they got been the club - and that includes the manager and all the players
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Russell Martin coaching on 17:37 - Aug 4 by STID2017
One season and one game in, and the negative posters abound. Martin has done well with the likes of Piroe, Obafemi and Downes and based on last week Fisher, Wood and Darling. Yet some will give him no credit and cannot wait for him to go. Would be lovely if they got been the club - and that includes the manager and all the players
Recruitment has been an issue for the club for a long time now. Cooper did well with temporary loans. Guehi probably was a first teamer for as many games or more than James or McBurney but had no financial legacy in terms of cash.
Recruitment has always been a mixed bag and it cannot succeed without sorting out this issue. It was a shame Scott left. Was this necessary. A man that did well in recruitment replaced by a man that did not do well reportedly.
Russell Martin coaching on 17:46 - Aug 4 by ReslovenSwan1
Recruitment has been an issue for the club for a long time now. Cooper did well with temporary loans. Guehi probably was a first teamer for as many games or more than James or McBurney but had no financial legacy in terms of cash.
Recruitment has always been a mixed bag and it cannot succeed without sorting out this issue. It was a shame Scott left. Was this necessary. A man that did well in recruitment replaced by a man that did not do well reportedly.
The club can do well if its trading is spot on.
Hopefully seem to be going the right way now. Definetly need a couple more in but need rid of those who do not fit in his plans
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Russell Martin coaching on 16:55 - Aug 4 by vetchonian
17 points from 10 if extrapolated would give us 78 points last seasons 6th place had 75 points... we have as has been said a strike force being valued at £25M how many of our competitors have the same?
!7 points is an improvement on the 14 points we achieved in the last 10 games of last season.
After Martins first 10 games we had 10 points an average of a point per game as the season closed we were average 1.4 so a 40% improvement I have targeted a 30% improvement for the beginning of this...other wise its not a "process" as processes are measurable. He has had 46 league games a couple of cup games and a full preseason...we have added Wood and Darling and brought in Sorinola another player used to working with Martin we hopefully will still have Obafemi and Piroe
I meant the first 10 games! Let's take one game at a time, and see where we are after 10 games
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Russell Martin coaching on 20:49 - Aug 3 by Whiterockin
Then how did we get them so cheap. Don't let facts cloud your judgment or dislike of someone.
This in buckets and spades, some people will say the stupidest things purely because they don't like someone, look at the Anti Trump brigade for example haha
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