| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season 21:11 - Oct 19 with 2858 views | 73__73 |
Patience is a word Some on here don’t understand.
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 08:20 - Oct 20 with 799 views | magicdaps10 |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 08:03 - Oct 20 by Whiterockin |
Still early days into the season, remember if the season ended today we would be outside the play offs. Nothing achieved yet. |
Bang on, things can change quickly in these league.....a few defeats and it's plummeting towards 18th or so.
Reality is much needed but certainly goes hand in hand with understanding also.
Football isn't played on a piece of paper and never as straight forward as its suggested on it. |  |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:30 - Oct 20 with 756 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 08:20 - Oct 20 by magicdaps10 |
Bang on, things can change quickly in these league.....a few defeats and it's plummeting towards 18th or so.
Reality is much needed but certainly goes hand in hand with understanding also.
Football isn't played on a piece of paper and never as straight forward as its suggested on it. |
There is no way we should be competing down the bottom end of the league as you suggested we should.
Playing a sensible way will ensure we don’t plummet to “18th or so” , and it’s those pieces of paper that harbour the sufficient tactics and systems to ensure games are given the best chance to be won. |  |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:33 - Oct 20 with 755 views | KeithHaynes |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:30 - Oct 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
There is no way we should be competing down the bottom end of the league as you suggested we should.
Playing a sensible way will ensure we don’t plummet to “18th or so” , and it’s those pieces of paper that harbour the sufficient tactics and systems to ensure games are given the best chance to be won. |
I see that as a Martin strength. |  |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:40 - Oct 20 with 743 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:33 - Oct 20 by KeithHaynes |
I see that as a Martin strength. |
It’s a squad strength thing… which was largely assembled by Martin, so in a sense I suppose it is.
But it’s also been this way for the best part of a year and a half and only recently he’s decided to change to get the best out of them when it’s been blindingly obvious for months on end, that’s a Martin negative.
No point in assembling a good squad if your tactics hamper them like they did last season and the start of this season.
We will see how he goes from here and how strong he is to keep his urge away to revert to type. It’s a trust thing for me and until he comes out and talks about his commitment to this way of playing (like he did with the last) then the trust will always be on shaky ground, as the first half in the last match showed.
Notice I didn’t criticise after defeat to Burnley despite it being heavy - because we played the right way, just with the wrong side. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 09:47 - Oct 20 with 740 views | onehunglow |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 07:55 - Oct 20 by jojaca |
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, only a third through the season and it's the most open championship I have ever seen and things can change very quickly. There are still some issues, mainly we are still conceding more than we are scoring, if that carries on we won't be threatening promotion and the real weakness of the team is wing backs and its probably the most important clog to the system.
I still think Russell would love to start out playing Martinball every game, his tactics have been hampered by selecting Benda. He's had to concede that Benda is no sweeper keeper, hence the goalkick routine having to change and less build up play from the back. If Fisher was still in goal, we would be playing the old way.
I am still of the opinion that that towards the end of season we will be mid table, we concede far too many soft goals, we get games where we receive some real beatings and I still think we poor on the creating chances side. But if we are in touching distance by the end of January transfer window, maybe our owners will take a gamble. [Post edited 20 Oct 2022 7:56]
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It is a Mediocre League.
We have enough talent to at least make play offs
Question is,do we want it ? | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 10:27 - Oct 20 with 726 views | controversial_jack |
It took him so long to realise that his martinball doesn't work. He has thankfully changed it, probably after some prompting. Not the sign of a good manager for me.He won't take us to the next level | | | |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 11:16 - Oct 20 with 705 views | Dr_Winston |
The enthusiasm in certain areas for us to appoint Neil Warnock or someone of similar ilk as our next manager is startling. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 11:19 - Oct 20 with 700 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 11:16 - Oct 20 by Dr_Winston |
The enthusiasm in certain areas for us to appoint Neil Warnock or someone of similar ilk as our next manager is startling. |
Who on earth has suggested we employ such a manager?
These myths are becoming tiresome. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 13:29 - Oct 20 with 666 views | vetchonian |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 11:16 - Oct 20 by Dr_Winston |
The enthusiasm in certain areas for us to appoint Neil Warnock or someone of similar ilk as our next manager is startling. |
Who has suggested this?
IT amazes me that so many so called football supporters cannot differentiate between hoofball and pragmatic play
Did Glenn Hoddle play hoofball when he was spraying defence splitting passes from 40 yards?
What I and others have advocated is a move away from the passing for passing sake and get the ball moving forwads more quickly using maybe 6 or 7 passes rather than 20...sometimes using a long pass rather than trying to pass the opposition to death. LAst season I sat through many games where I witnessed Naughton and Grimes tapping the ball back and fore each other rooted to the same spots for 4 or 5 passes with the ball just going sideways.
The last few games our football has been more Luadrupesque he certainly wouldnt had put up with the ball being played so much in our defensive third and he was one quoted about passing for passing sake.
Im not aware of anyone on here advocating a manager such as Pullis or Warnock I certainly wouldnt want to watch that week in and week out we had our share of that post Tosh and John Bond with the likes of Colin Appleton. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 13:42 - Oct 20 with 659 views | onehunglow |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 13:29 - Oct 20 by vetchonian |
Who has suggested this?
IT amazes me that so many so called football supporters cannot differentiate between hoofball and pragmatic play
Did Glenn Hoddle play hoofball when he was spraying defence splitting passes from 40 yards?
What I and others have advocated is a move away from the passing for passing sake and get the ball moving forwads more quickly using maybe 6 or 7 passes rather than 20...sometimes using a long pass rather than trying to pass the opposition to death. LAst season I sat through many games where I witnessed Naughton and Grimes tapping the ball back and fore each other rooted to the same spots for 4 or 5 passes with the ball just going sideways.
The last few games our football has been more Luadrupesque he certainly wouldnt had put up with the ball being played so much in our defensive third and he was one quoted about passing for passing sake.
Im not aware of anyone on here advocating a manager such as Pullis or Warnock I certainly wouldnt want to watch that week in and week out we had our share of that post Tosh and John Bond with the likes of Colin Appleton. |
Nobody
It is just a poster expressing an opinion .
Pragmatism is key | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 16:14 - Oct 20 with 620 views | heatwave |
I get the patience bit. Patience was the buzzword when Process was in play.
What I see now is a manager who has finally given up on the way he thought he could get the players to perform and is actually using the the players to play to the ability they have.
Hence Benda and Jay have been two of the more impressive players in our upturn in form.
So I think now may be the time to patient for him to address our defensive frailties.
I didn't want him out at the start of the season. I wanted him out last season.
Russ now starts with a clean slate with me. |  | | |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:07 - Oct 21 with 556 views | cadleigh |
Let's be clear about the actual course of events over the past 14 months.
1 Martin comes in, insisting that there is no Plan B, it's Martinball or nothing. The club removes pretty much everyone associated with previous managers apart from KO'L, which may or may not be at Martin's instigation. Some of us express concern that he's a pretty young and inexperienced manager, and could do with some support, and are slated for it.
2 Certain posters on social media declare that he is "the real deal" before a ball is kicked and declare that we mustn't judge him until he's had at least a season and a half (sometimes two) and/or at least three transfer windows (including the one he joined halfway through) so he can assemble the squad of his dreams. With the qualification that the evil owners might deprive him of the backing needed to execute his master plan, so even if he fails, it will never be his fault.
3 We endure a pretty pointless season of under-achievement with some frankly iffy new recruits, and everything strongly suggests that he plans to do exactly what he did at MK Dons: play a rigid, predictable style of football with lots of possession for possession's sake, and end up mid table.
4 But we win the double for the first time ever so he gets triple XP and a special power-up which means his job is safe until the next season.
5 Season 2 starts like like season 1, but worse. We are in freefall.
6 Something happens that makes Martin junk everything he's tried to date and rotate 180 degrees. Suddenly the squad - who most of us said all along had the talent to compete for the play-offs - are playing with obvious joy and delivering the goods, freed of the shackles of Martinball. Before you know it we have gone from relegation zone to play-off positions.
If anyone thinks that this describes the culmination of a plan that Martin was hatching from the day he was appointed then I have a London bridge that you might be interested in investing in.
He's had a decent run of games recently, by abandoning everything he stood for previously. Of course you don't sack a manager under those circumstances. But you don't erect a statue of him or give him the freedom of the city either. Not yet anyway. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:17 - Oct 21 with 551 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:07 - Oct 21 by cadleigh |
Let's be clear about the actual course of events over the past 14 months.
1 Martin comes in, insisting that there is no Plan B, it's Martinball or nothing. The club removes pretty much everyone associated with previous managers apart from KO'L, which may or may not be at Martin's instigation. Some of us express concern that he's a pretty young and inexperienced manager, and could do with some support, and are slated for it.
2 Certain posters on social media declare that he is "the real deal" before a ball is kicked and declare that we mustn't judge him until he's had at least a season and a half (sometimes two) and/or at least three transfer windows (including the one he joined halfway through) so he can assemble the squad of his dreams. With the qualification that the evil owners might deprive him of the backing needed to execute his master plan, so even if he fails, it will never be his fault.
3 We endure a pretty pointless season of under-achievement with some frankly iffy new recruits, and everything strongly suggests that he plans to do exactly what he did at MK Dons: play a rigid, predictable style of football with lots of possession for possession's sake, and end up mid table.
4 But we win the double for the first time ever so he gets triple XP and a special power-up which means his job is safe until the next season.
5 Season 2 starts like like season 1, but worse. We are in freefall.
6 Something happens that makes Martin junk everything he's tried to date and rotate 180 degrees. Suddenly the squad - who most of us said all along had the talent to compete for the play-offs - are playing with obvious joy and delivering the goods, freed of the shackles of Martinball. Before you know it we have gone from relegation zone to play-off positions.
If anyone thinks that this describes the culmination of a plan that Martin was hatching from the day he was appointed then I have a London bridge that you might be interested in investing in.
He's had a decent run of games recently, by abandoning everything he stood for previously. Of course you don't sack a manager under those circumstances. But you don't erect a statue of him or give him the freedom of the city either. Not yet anyway. |
That my good sir, is a wonderful post.
Although I will add, nobody said he needed 2 seasons to start with.
It was generally said judge after 10 games, then Xmas, then it then went to 20, then after Jan window, then 6 months, then the whole season (this is when transition season was coined), then 4 transfer windows - each time getting extended ‘subtly’.
But as you say, it’s nothing to do with patience. It’s about scrapping that nonsense style long after it should have been, we are now playing like we should have last season which was a complete waste of time and money for both the supporter and club (Fisher being a prime example).
As stated, if he goes back to that (which many have a feeling he wants to) he should be gone with his feet not touching the ground. This squad is deserving of a style of play to do it justice, we are in a wonderful position squad wise as many stated last season, it would be criminal to waste it again.
[Post edited 21 Oct 2022 22:26]
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:27 - Oct 21 with 539 views | 73__73 |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:17 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
That my good sir, is a wonderful post.
Although I will add, nobody said he needed 2 seasons to start with.
It was generally said judge after 10 games, then Xmas, then it then went to 20, then after Jan window, then 6 months, then the whole season (this is when transition season was coined), then 4 transfer windows - each time getting extended ‘subtly’.
But as you say, it’s nothing to do with patience. It’s about scrapping that nonsense style long after it should have been, we are now playing like we should have last season which was a complete waste of time and money for both the supporter and club (Fisher being a prime example).
As stated, if he goes back to that (which many have a feeling he wants to) he should be gone with his feet not touching the ground. This squad is deserving of a style of play to do it justice, we are in a wonderful position squad wise as many stated last season, it would be criminal to waste it again.
[Post edited 21 Oct 2022 22:26]
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27 August | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:28 - Oct 21 with 535 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:27 - Oct 21 by 73__73 |
27 August |
Absolutely, should have been sacked for all money.
Coffee? | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:29 - Oct 21 with 535 views | onehunglow |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:07 - Oct 21 by cadleigh |
Let's be clear about the actual course of events over the past 14 months.
1 Martin comes in, insisting that there is no Plan B, it's Martinball or nothing. The club removes pretty much everyone associated with previous managers apart from KO'L, which may or may not be at Martin's instigation. Some of us express concern that he's a pretty young and inexperienced manager, and could do with some support, and are slated for it.
2 Certain posters on social media declare that he is "the real deal" before a ball is kicked and declare that we mustn't judge him until he's had at least a season and a half (sometimes two) and/or at least three transfer windows (including the one he joined halfway through) so he can assemble the squad of his dreams. With the qualification that the evil owners might deprive him of the backing needed to execute his master plan, so even if he fails, it will never be his fault.
3 We endure a pretty pointless season of under-achievement with some frankly iffy new recruits, and everything strongly suggests that he plans to do exactly what he did at MK Dons: play a rigid, predictable style of football with lots of possession for possession's sake, and end up mid table.
4 But we win the double for the first time ever so he gets triple XP and a special power-up which means his job is safe until the next season.
5 Season 2 starts like like season 1, but worse. We are in freefall.
6 Something happens that makes Martin junk everything he's tried to date and rotate 180 degrees. Suddenly the squad - who most of us said all along had the talent to compete for the play-offs - are playing with obvious joy and delivering the goods, freed of the shackles of Martinball. Before you know it we have gone from relegation zone to play-off positions.
If anyone thinks that this describes the culmination of a plan that Martin was hatching from the day he was appointed then I have a London bridge that you might be interested in investing in.
He's had a decent run of games recently, by abandoning everything he stood for previously. Of course you don't sack a manager under those circumstances. But you don't erect a statue of him or give him the freedom of the city either. Not yet anyway. |
Wow.
Just look at that …
Incredible really. The sharpest critique of what we currently have. It’s really quite alarming and shameful that decent fans have been targeted and vilified. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:31 - Oct 21 with 531 views | onehunglow |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:28 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely, should have been sacked for all money.
Coffee? |
Had he been, we might be top of the league | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:39 - Oct 21 with 526 views | 73__73 |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:28 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely, should have been sacked for all money.
Coffee? |
Name a manager who would have come to Swansea and done a better job ? You can’t
August 27 | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:48 - Oct 21 with 519 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:39 - Oct 21 by 73__73 |
Name a manager who would have come to Swansea and done a better job ? You can’t
August 27 |
Any competent manager should have been able to get this squad to compete for play offs, both this season and last.
August 27th he should have been sacked, he’s a lucky man.
Coffee? | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:54 - Oct 21 with 503 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:31 - Oct 21 by onehunglow |
Had he been, we might be top of the league |
Unquestionably we should be higher than we are, the first part of the season where we ‘amassed’ 5 points from 6 games was a complete waste and a simple follow on from last season. Had we played the way we should have from game 1 then I don’t see how anyone can argue.
But I’m not going to hold it against him as long as he does the right thing and sets us up correctly from this point forward - but I’m also not going to forget, especially when he clearly has the itch to return us to that style. It should be in everyone’s mind how awful that style is.
While he’s behaving he can stay and that’s largely due to it being cost effective, the second he reverts - he needs to be gone. He was lucky he caved when he did and changed, he couldn’t have been very far from the edge of the cliff at the time - which I’m guessing is what prompted it. | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 23:06 - Oct 21 with 488 views | 73__73 |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 22:54 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Unquestionably we should be higher than we are, the first part of the season where we ‘amassed’ 5 points from 6 games was a complete waste and a simple follow on from last season. Had we played the way we should have from game 1 then I don’t see how anyone can argue.
But I’m not going to hold it against him as long as he does the right thing and sets us up correctly from this point forward - but I’m also not going to forget, especially when he clearly has the itch to return us to that style. It should be in everyone’s mind how awful that style is.
While he’s behaving he can stay and that’s largely due to it being cost effective, the second he reverts - he needs to be gone. He was lucky he caved when he did and changed, he couldn’t have been very far from the edge of the cliff at the time - which I’m guessing is what prompted it. |
You simply don’t understand the game, as 27 August proved, and no matter how much you row back, you won’t change the fact that you wanted him sacked.
I think you and ohl heads will fall off should RM have a successful season 😎 | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 23:39 - Oct 21 with 478 views | STID2017 |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 23:06 - Oct 21 by 73__73 |
You simply don’t understand the game, as 27 August proved, and no matter how much you row back, you won’t change the fact that you wanted him sacked.
I think you and ohl heads will fall off should RM have a successful season 😎 |
I for one am glad the club had more patience and foresight than many fans ( and yes I also advocated his sacking in September. )
In spite of last Saturday's blip ( against a very good Burnley side), I feel we are on the cusp of something special.
Certainly nothing to fear in this division |  |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 01:08 - Oct 22 with 460 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
No one talks about process. By definition the play in the development stages of the process is not the same as the play at the end of the process.
The early stages might have had an emphasis on passing and possession. Only after this stage is complete slick passing and possession in a more direct way becomes playable with he players at hand. Longer balls have to be accurate.
Martin has made no secret that last season was a developing stage. It is no surprise to see the style evolve. The argument that this new winning is due to the failure of the process is bogus in my opinion. Some argue the club is winning because it is playing a winning style. This is is self defining. Martin has taken the team through a process. The current good performances are a result of the process not a result of ditching the process in my opinion.
Martin is the manager and he always had to adapt to get better results. He is adapting with the added coaching staff I have always recommended. Cooper would have done better himself had he brought in hired help to get him away from his turgid style of play successful as it was.
I am still not convinced he is a top six manager. Perhaps he has adapted into one with the addition of seasoned pros like Joey Allen and Mr Purslow. This is probably the best series of results in his whole career. It remains to be seen if he can keep the club around the top six. |  |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 02:21 - Oct 22 with 452 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 23:06 - Oct 21 by 73__73 |
You simply don’t understand the game, as 27 August proved, and no matter how much you row back, you won’t change the fact that you wanted him sacked.
I think you and ohl heads will fall off should RM have a successful season 😎 |
I have probably forgotten more about the game than you could ever know. Hence I am able to make such correct statements like I made on August 27th. Any manager playing that way knowing it doesn’t work should be sacked - he’s lucky he wasn’t, very lucky.
If RM has a successful season then it’s very likely he has continued the way we said he should be playing 14 months ago, my head my fall off in vindication possibly.
Coffee? | |
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| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 02:24 - Oct 22 with 450 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Just imagine if the club had sacked R M after our poor start to the season on 23:39 - Oct 21 by STID2017 |
I for one am glad the club had more patience and foresight than many fans ( and yes I also advocated his sacking in September. )
In spite of last Saturday's blip ( against a very good Burnley side), I feel we are on the cusp of something special.
Certainly nothing to fear in this division |
I think it’s more to do with not having the sufficient finances to do so.
But the result is the same, any competent manager should get a play off standard squad competing in the play offs.
It’s where we should be, not some miracle of patience. “Patience” has put us at a tremendous disadvantage that didn’t need to happen. We now have the likes of Fisher taking up a fairly large wage to play a style that has been scrapped.
That could have been better spent on some wing backs or a top quality loan to push us on. | |
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