| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing 14:57 - Dec 14 with 6080 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
In what world is this allowed? Murdering scumbag Jordan McSweeney is refusing to come up from his cell and face the court on the grounds that he doesn’t want to have to view cctv of what he did. It’s making my blood boil. He should be dragged kicking and screaming to that courtroom. By his testicles if necessary and if they can find any.
https://www.independent.co.uk/ |  |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:40 - Dec 14 with 684 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:30 - Dec 14 by onehunglow |
The cases highlighted here were in days when they wasn’t the overwhelming compelling evidence .
DNA alone brings a totally different perspective
Capital deterrent was only removed because MPs were told the alternative would be full life . They were lied to.
Countless villains ,murderers etc have got literally with murder because of some obfuscation created by defence barrister sufficient to plant seeds of doubt into Jury mindsets . Innocent they were not. |
DNA does not bring a different perspective, there are many problems with it, it is a developing science which is flawed.
Give me an example of these ‘countless ‘ cases where barristers have placed doubt. How do you know that ? Did you sit through the trials ? How do you know they were guilty ?
You have a bizarre hatred of defence barristers. |  | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:45 - Dec 14 with 673 views | Flashberryjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:25 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
I completely agree with you.
However, if your family member was wrongly executed would you shrug and say ‘oh well’ at least other people who genuinely murdered can’t do it again ?
We see in America how it doesn’t work. You’d have jurors refusing to sit on panels, judges and barristers refusing to participate and the backlog would be many many years. It will never ever happen. |
Well, if capital punishment wont be re-introduced, then life in prison should mean, life in prison, and mean in a prison, not the cushy excuses we call prisons these day, no parole, no realise and no hope, just like their victims laying in the ground. |  |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:51 - Dec 14 with 655 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:45 - Dec 14 by Flashberryjack |
Well, if capital punishment wont be re-introduced, then life in prison should mean, life in prison, and mean in a prison, not the cushy excuses we call prisons these day, no parole, no realise and no hope, just like their victims laying in the ground. |
Whole life sentences are an option. This person received a min 38 year sentence before he can even be considered for release.
May I ask have to ever visited a prison ? I’ve been in countless, they’re anything but cushy. Many are rat infested. Suicide rate is huge. Holidays camps they ain’t | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:54 - Dec 14 with 647 views | Boundy |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:51 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Whole life sentences are an option. This person received a min 38 year sentence before he can even be considered for release.
May I ask have to ever visited a prison ? I’ve been in countless, they’re anything but cushy. Many are rat infested. Suicide rate is huge. Holidays camps they ain’t |
and yet how many inmates are repeat offenders |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:01 - Dec 14 with 632 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:54 - Dec 14 by Boundy |
and yet how many inmates are repeat offenders |
Virtually all of them.
However, many also have real mental health problems, homelessness which leads to alcohol and drug abuse. There’s no money to treat people who need help, it’s not a vote winner.
There are evil people out there and people who just commit offences but there’s also
a high proportion who need help and are let down by the system, especially in the magistrates. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:03 - Dec 14 with 626 views | Gwyn737 |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:54 - Dec 14 by Boundy |
and yet how many inmates are repeat offenders |
Unfortunately I think it’s inevitable that when someone has been inside there’s such a high reoffending rate as once you’ve got that record so many options are closed to you.
I’d like to see a wider variety of noncustodial punishments (not for serious crimes obviously) and sensible limitations on how long minor offences stay on DBS checks. Somebody who got nicked for shoplifting at 18 might be a very different person at 30 with no other convictions. Yet they would be barred from numerous jobs and even voluntary posts. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:10 - Dec 14 with 620 views | Sirjohnalot |
Brilliant thread. So many different opinions all really well argued. Great to see | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:17 - Dec 14 with 611 views | Dr_Winston |
The other thing to consider is if one perpetrator of a major crime is a bigger societal issue than a perpetrator of many smaller crimes.
Most people won't be affected by a murderer. They may be affected by a smackrat burglar/shoplifter. Is someone guilty of dozens of smaller crimes as suitable for a serious sentence as someone who may previously have been of good character?
Personally I'm aware of people guilty of 50+ minor offences that I'd rather see locked away for a couple of decades than one offender guilty of one major offence. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:22 - Dec 14 with 594 views | Dr_Winston |
I mean, to me, someone like the specimen in the attached article needs to be sent down for multiple decades. She's a blight on society. In reality she may get a couple of years then she's let straight back out to cause misery for anyone around her.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/ | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:26 - Dec 14 with 591 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:17 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
The other thing to consider is if one perpetrator of a major crime is a bigger societal issue than a perpetrator of many smaller crimes.
Most people won't be affected by a murderer. They may be affected by a smackrat burglar/shoplifter. Is someone guilty of dozens of smaller crimes as suitable for a serious sentence as someone who may previously have been of good character?
Personally I'm aware of people guilty of 50+ minor offences that I'd rather see locked away for a couple of decades than one offender guilty of one major offence. |
Domestic burglars got hammered by the courts, they cause devastation for victims, it’s an abhorrent crime.
Shoplifters are normally quite pathetic people. They’re normally desperate people who owe huge amount of money for drugs or who nick to pay for their drugs
Problem with a very harsh sentences for minor offences is that you’d may as well go for broke and rob a bank or hold up a shop with a gun, if the sentences are going to be similar. You’d got for the much higher reward and put people are risk, as opposed to stealing vodka from Tesco’s.
People also steal food as they’re no money | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:28 - Dec 14 with 585 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:22 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
I mean, to me, someone like the specimen in the attached article needs to be sent down for multiple decades. She's a blight on society. In reality she may get a couple of years then she's let straight back out to cause misery for anyone around her.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/ |
Don’t disagree, horrihle offence,
She’ll serve a min of 4 in reality she will serve 6-7 at least | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:37 - Dec 14 with 569 views | Dr_Winston |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:26 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Domestic burglars got hammered by the courts, they cause devastation for victims, it’s an abhorrent crime.
Shoplifters are normally quite pathetic people. They’re normally desperate people who owe huge amount of money for drugs or who nick to pay for their drugs
Problem with a very harsh sentences for minor offences is that you’d may as well go for broke and rob a bank or hold up a shop with a gun, if the sentences are going to be similar. You’d got for the much higher reward and put people are risk, as opposed to stealing vodka from Tesco’s.
People also steal food as they’re no money |
I have quite a lot of experience of minor offenders. To be honest and at the risk of sounding condescending I'd argue that it's probably more my bailiwick than yours as most of mine rarely make Crown Court.
The vast, overwhelming majority of acqusitive crime, the kind of crime that causes misery for your average person in the street is not done out of desperation, or for lack of cash, but purely to raise money for drugs.
I'm not saying that people should get ten years for shoplifting, but there must come a point when a court is looking at someone with 30, even 40 previous convictions that a "F*ck off, have 20 years" limit must be reached. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:37 - Dec 14 with 569 views | pencoedjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:26 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Domestic burglars got hammered by the courts, they cause devastation for victims, it’s an abhorrent crime.
Shoplifters are normally quite pathetic people. They’re normally desperate people who owe huge amount of money for drugs or who nick to pay for their drugs
Problem with a very harsh sentences for minor offences is that you’d may as well go for broke and rob a bank or hold up a shop with a gun, if the sentences are going to be similar. You’d got for the much higher reward and put people are risk, as opposed to stealing vodka from Tesco’s.
People also steal food as they’re no money |
If you run a shop that was being robbed by smack heads on a regular basis I’m pretty sure you’d have a different view. |  | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:39 - Dec 14 with 566 views | Flashberryjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 19:51 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Whole life sentences are an option. This person received a min 38 year sentence before he can even be considered for release.
May I ask have to ever visited a prison ? I’ve been in countless, they’re anything but cushy. Many are rat infested. Suicide rate is huge. Holidays camps they ain’t |
No, I haven't been inside a prison, but 3 of my friends are prison officers, so I have a good idea what things are like.
They are cushy to what they used to be, a high suicide rate is hardly surprising either, and I can't recall any of my friends mentioning that they were infested with rats, and I never suggested they were holiday camps. | |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:42 - Dec 14 with 560 views | pencoedjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:39 - Dec 14 by Flashberryjack |
No, I haven't been inside a prison, but 3 of my friends are prison officers, so I have a good idea what things are like.
They are cushy to what they used to be, a high suicide rate is hardly surprising either, and I can't recall any of my friends mentioning that they were infested with rats, and I never suggested they were holiday camps. |
Same for me have a few mates who are guards at Parc prison Bridgend reckon it’s a holiday camp. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:47 - Dec 14 with 548 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:37 - Dec 14 by pencoedjack |
If you run a shop that was being robbed by smack heads on a regular basis I’m pretty sure you’d have a different view. |
Absolutely I would, completely agree with you, as ever when I talk about anything law based, it’s from a completely cold, legal basis. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:52 - Dec 14 with 538 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:37 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
I have quite a lot of experience of minor offenders. To be honest and at the risk of sounding condescending I'd argue that it's probably more my bailiwick than yours as most of mine rarely make Crown Court.
The vast, overwhelming majority of acqusitive crime, the kind of crime that causes misery for your average person in the street is not done out of desperation, or for lack of cash, but purely to raise money for drugs.
I'm not saying that people should get ten years for shoplifting, but there must come a point when a court is looking at someone with 30, even 40 previous convictions that a "F*ck off, have 20 years" limit must be reached. |
Completely understand that, and I entirely sympathise with that view. All my point was that the people stealing for drugs are, themselves being exploited by the dealers. They’re the real evil people | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:56 - Dec 14 with 530 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:39 - Dec 14 by Flashberryjack |
No, I haven't been inside a prison, but 3 of my friends are prison officers, so I have a good idea what things are like.
They are cushy to what they used to be, a high suicide rate is hardly surprising either, and I can't recall any of my friends mentioning that they were infested with rats, and I never suggested they were holiday camps. |
Strangeways is horrific, Victorian, hugely overcrowded, infested, similar to Liverpool. Some of the private ones are better.
HMP Berwyn near Wrexham is a decent facility.
In order to help maintain discipline, there needs to be decent facilities, work, education etc. your mates do an incredible job for not much money. I couldn’t do it. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:00 - Dec 14 with 522 views | Dr_Winston |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:52 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Completely understand that, and I entirely sympathise with that view. All my point was that the people stealing for drugs are, themselves being exploited by the dealers. They’re the real evil people |
I'd cheerfully shoot drug dealers in the head and leave their bodies on public display so no argument there.
My issue comes with the exploitation thing. Nobody at this point can reasonably claim ignorance of the effects of taking drugs. It's simply not an excuse. It's a choice made and no allowances can be made for it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:09 - Dec 14 with 509 views | Flashberryjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 20:56 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Strangeways is horrific, Victorian, hugely overcrowded, infested, similar to Liverpool. Some of the private ones are better.
HMP Berwyn near Wrexham is a decent facility.
In order to help maintain discipline, there needs to be decent facilities, work, education etc. your mates do an incredible job for not much money. I couldn’t do it. |
They've been violently assaulted, spat on and called all sorts of vile names, one of them retaliated after a prisoner spat in his face, he was suspended and nearly lost his job after the guy reported him for giving him a good shaking. | |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:09 - Dec 14 with 508 views | pencoedjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:00 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
I'd cheerfully shoot drug dealers in the head and leave their bodies on public display so no argument there.
My issue comes with the exploitation thing. Nobody at this point can reasonably claim ignorance of the effects of taking drugs. It's simply not an excuse. It's a choice made and no allowances can be made for it. |
Yes it’s like when I hear ‘they had no father figure when they were growing up’ neither did I & a few of my mates, none of us turned to dealing drugs.
Made me a better Dad mind. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:17 - Dec 14 with 489 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:00 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
I'd cheerfully shoot drug dealers in the head and leave their bodies on public display so no argument there.
My issue comes with the exploitation thing. Nobody at this point can reasonably claim ignorance of the effects of taking drugs. It's simply not an excuse. It's a choice made and no allowances can be made for it. |
Yes and no. I represented a lad who’s parents were dealers and from a very young age they used him to run drugs and tested a new batch on him. Addicted thereafter.
Homeless people who use to get through the night, mentally ill, kids who were given cannabis eg for free then suddenly owed a lot of money and were forced to deal (modern slavery) young girls forced into prostitution by older boyfriends and injected to keep them loyal. People with horrendous sexual abuse histories who turn to drugs to forget.
Some of the backstories are devastating. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:18 - Dec 14 with 485 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:09 - Dec 14 by Flashberryjack |
They've been violently assaulted, spat on and called all sorts of vile names, one of them retaliated after a prisoner spat in his face, he was suspended and nearly lost his job after the guy reported him for giving him a good shaking. |
Which is where a decent lawyer would get that thrown out. | | | |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:24 - Dec 14 with 477 views | Dr_Winston |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:17 - Dec 14 by Sirjohnalot |
Yes and no. I represented a lad who’s parents were dealers and from a very young age they used him to run drugs and tested a new batch on him. Addicted thereafter.
Homeless people who use to get through the night, mentally ill, kids who were given cannabis eg for free then suddenly owed a lot of money and were forced to deal (modern slavery) young girls forced into prostitution by older boyfriends and injected to keep them loyal. People with horrendous sexual abuse histories who turn to drugs to forget.
Some of the backstories are devastating. |
I know the backstories. I also know plenty who have circumvented them.
One of my favourites was a girl from up North. Leeds I think. Every horrible childhood story you can think of applied to her. Then she fell in with a boyfriend who pimped her out. Several years on the needle and game followed.
She decided to up sticks and move to Swansea. Get away from everything and get herself clean. She managed it. The sense of pride that radiated from her was almost a physical force and being able to help her better herself from there (not that she really needed my paltry assistance) was and remains one of my proudest professional moments.
Ultimately, it's still a choice. Maybe I'm being unduly harsh but it can be done and there's plenty of assistance out there to help people make it. Not many do. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:27 - Dec 14 with 468 views | pencoedjack |
| Murderer refuses to attend court for sentencing on 21:24 - Dec 14 by Dr_Winston |
I know the backstories. I also know plenty who have circumvented them.
One of my favourites was a girl from up North. Leeds I think. Every horrible childhood story you can think of applied to her. Then she fell in with a boyfriend who pimped her out. Several years on the needle and game followed.
She decided to up sticks and move to Swansea. Get away from everything and get herself clean. She managed it. The sense of pride that radiated from her was almost a physical force and being able to help her better herself from there (not that she really needed my paltry assistance) was and remains one of my proudest professional moments.
Ultimately, it's still a choice. Maybe I'm being unduly harsh but it can be done and there's plenty of assistance out there to help people make it. Not many do. |
Think you are probably underestimating yourself there Dr.
Fair dos you should feel proud. | | | |
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