| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress 08:00 - Nov 21 with 3378 views | SwansIndependent |
Click above, it’s a wonderful world.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:13 - Nov 21 with 2455 views | onehunglow |
That’s a bright read to start the day .
Merry Christmas !
Depressing or what
We deserve better ,really we do. | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:35 - Nov 21 with 2430 views | Whiterockin |
Thank you for highlighting the questions that I have been asking for months. There really needs to be clarity in the investment into the club and the associate costs on running the club, outside of the playing side. The true facts are really worrying and until they are highlighted on forums like this nothing seems to be done and when it is is, it seems to backtracking to cover their inept mistakes. Currently the owners are not doing the best for our club, come clean. |  | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:39 - Nov 21 with 2409 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:35 - Nov 21 by Whiterockin |
Thank you for highlighting the questions that I have been asking for months. There really needs to be clarity in the investment into the club and the associate costs on running the club, outside of the playing side. The true facts are really worrying and until they are highlighted on forums like this nothing seems to be done and when it is is, it seems to backtracking to cover their inept mistakes. Currently the owners are not doing the best for our club, come clean. |
I’ve not really given much thought to it Whitey as I’m afraid of what it might reveal.
It’s actually hard for me to engage with any comments these days although ,one thing for sure,for me,the thrill has gone. Going to ( away) games ,now I travel on my own is depressing so I tend now not to do so.results still define my weekend though .
It’s sad we all bitch too much at each other instead of turning on these owners . | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:43 - Nov 21 with 2413 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:39 - Nov 21 by onehunglow |
I’ve not really given much thought to it Whitey as I’m afraid of what it might reveal.
It’s actually hard for me to engage with any comments these days although ,one thing for sure,for me,the thrill has gone. Going to ( away) games ,now I travel on my own is depressing so I tend now not to do so.results still define my weekend though .
It’s sad we all bitch too much at each other instead of turning on these owners . |
Have a browse through this for a start mate.
Clarity by the club or is it by Whiterockin 14 Nov 2023 10:57https://www.swanseacity.com/club/ownership-statement
I have cut and pasted in full, just in case it is edited or removed from the club website.
OWNERSHIP STATEMENT
Swansea City AFC Limited is a member of the English Football League and the Football Association of Wales and is an affiliate member of the West Wales Football Association.
It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Swansea City Football 2002 Limited.
Shareholders owning 10% or more of the issued share capital in the ultimate holding company are:
Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan, Jason Levien & Jake Silverstein (via Swansea Football LLC) - 70.76%
Nigel Morris – 15.22%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.35% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).
So the club put this on their website, without it being dated and without it being available through the latest news or club news section of the website. Was it slipped on without trying to draw attention after recent questions have been asked? Do they monitor the fan forums I wonder? Clearly this statement is after the latest investment and dilution going by the trust shareholding percentage.
We now know the names and shareholding of the main shareholders.
Swansea Football LLC-70.76%
Nigel Morris – 15.22%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.35% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).
Leaving 3.67% left between minority shareholders. This is down to dilution and will continue to be reduced with any future dilution.
Swansea Football LLC is the American investment vehicle of Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan, Jason Levien & Jake Silverstein and possibly others, we do not know for sure. Neither do we know what percentage stake each investor has in Swansea Football LLC. We do not know either if all the investment in Swansea Football LLC has now been transferred to SWANSEA CITY FOOTBALL 2002 LIMITED (our club registered at Companies House in the UK). The clarification here does go to explain Coleman's statement that he had "invested a considerable amount in Swansea City", when nobody could see it registered at companies house. He had in fact invested, IMO, it in Swansea Football LLC in the USA.
There is some clarity but also leaves many questions still unanswered.
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:47 - Nov 21 with 2396 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 09:43 - Nov 21 by Whiterockin |
Have a browse through this for a start mate.
Clarity by the club or is it by Whiterockin 14 Nov 2023 10:57https://www.swanseacity.com/club/ownership-statement
I have cut and pasted in full, just in case it is edited or removed from the club website.
OWNERSHIP STATEMENT
Swansea City AFC Limited is a member of the English Football League and the Football Association of Wales and is an affiliate member of the West Wales Football Association.
It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Swansea City Football 2002 Limited.
Shareholders owning 10% or more of the issued share capital in the ultimate holding company are:
Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan, Jason Levien & Jake Silverstein (via Swansea Football LLC) - 70.76%
Nigel Morris – 15.22%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.35% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).
So the club put this on their website, without it being dated and without it being available through the latest news or club news section of the website. Was it slipped on without trying to draw attention after recent questions have been asked? Do they monitor the fan forums I wonder? Clearly this statement is after the latest investment and dilution going by the trust shareholding percentage.
We now know the names and shareholding of the main shareholders.
Swansea Football LLC-70.76%
Nigel Morris – 15.22%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.35% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).
Leaving 3.67% left between minority shareholders. This is down to dilution and will continue to be reduced with any future dilution.
Swansea Football LLC is the American investment vehicle of Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan, Jason Levien & Jake Silverstein and possibly others, we do not know for sure. Neither do we know what percentage stake each investor has in Swansea Football LLC. We do not know either if all the investment in Swansea Football LLC has now been transferred to SWANSEA CITY FOOTBALL 2002 LIMITED (our club registered at Companies House in the UK). The clarification here does go to explain Coleman's statement that he had "invested a considerable amount in Swansea City", when nobody could see it registered at companies house. He had in fact invested, IMO, it in Swansea Football LLC in the USA.
There is some clarity but also leaves many questions still unanswered.
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I’m going out .
I might clean my drains out ,by hand .
I’m obviously getting on now and wonder if the club will still be around after I join the great dust bowl in the sky . | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 10:42 - Nov 21 with 2329 views | jasper_T |
Bit perplexed by this statement "when - let’s make it simple no investment other than received in the summers transfer fees has been made" given the recent (3rd November) allotment of new shares totalling £3.5m of investment. This has brought the total investment into the club over the last 12 months to (if I'm reading Companies House properly) "GBP 49,361,887" around half of which was writing off older ownership debt/CLNs, the rest being new cash from Morris and the LLC. Quickly spent in this division.
Summer business was pretty poor, and the excessive injuries haven't helped. I can't believe Yates would still be starting every game if everyone was fit, Duff did drop him briefly before we lost too many forwards to leave him out. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 11:33 - Nov 21 with 2270 views | JJJack |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 10:42 - Nov 21 by jasper_T |
Bit perplexed by this statement "when - let’s make it simple no investment other than received in the summers transfer fees has been made" given the recent (3rd November) allotment of new shares totalling £3.5m of investment. This has brought the total investment into the club over the last 12 months to (if I'm reading Companies House properly) "GBP 49,361,887" around half of which was writing off older ownership debt/CLNs, the rest being new cash from Morris and the LLC. Quickly spent in this division.
Summer business was pretty poor, and the excessive injuries haven't helped. I can't believe Yates would still be starting every game if everyone was fit, Duff did drop him briefly before we lost too many forwards to leave him out. |
That figure seems ridiculously high. |  | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 11:42 - Nov 21 with 2263 views | QJumpingJack |
Gude is doing a Trust forum shortly.
What questions should be asked? (making sure they are constructive).
Lets start a list on this thread and the sensible questions should be passed to the Trust to use. | | | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 12:15 - Nov 21 with 2236 views | sw02sea |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 11:42 - Nov 21 by QJumpingJack |
Gude is doing a Trust forum shortly.
What questions should be asked? (making sure they are constructive).
Lets start a list on this thread and the sensible questions should be passed to the Trust to use. |
Sounds as if somethings a brewing. 🙄 I’ve said it all along, we are being taken for mugs by these Yankee shysters. The latest on the gravy train is our chairman’s bestie mate Mr Gude, being paid for Jack fek all. Plus all his moving expenses, club house ect, ect.
It all stinks to high heaven, and we are being bled dry by a small army of American leaches!
Great article by Swansea Indy, making it public. This should be a huge wake up call for us all.
I’ll repeat it again….THEY ARE TAKING US FOR MUGS !!! and we are doing fek all about it !! | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 12:28 - Nov 21 with 2212 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 11:42 - Nov 21 by QJumpingJack |
Gude is doing a Trust forum shortly.
What questions should be asked? (making sure they are constructive).
Lets start a list on this thread and the sensible questions should be passed to the Trust to use. |
Exactly what is your brief and how do you intend achieving this.
Where do you realistically see the club in three years time. Five is to far in advance and everyone would say Premier League, to appease the supporters. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 12:28 - Nov 21 with 2212 views | 3swan |
Not an article I hoped I'd have to read.
As pointed out the have been many red flags, maybe having seen similar in the past they do tend to be worryingly obvious.
There has been so much drip drip drip, that even though I don't have the facts I do trust that some have a good network that can provide them.
Words, and my perceived reality, don't match which makes it worrying times.
Nothing surprises me now, or even in the near future, when the club is being totally run as a financial business, where the team and fans have little consideration. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 13:08 - Nov 21 with 2148 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 10:42 - Nov 21 by jasper_T |
Bit perplexed by this statement "when - let’s make it simple no investment other than received in the summers transfer fees has been made" given the recent (3rd November) allotment of new shares totalling £3.5m of investment. This has brought the total investment into the club over the last 12 months to (if I'm reading Companies House properly) "GBP 49,361,887" around half of which was writing off older ownership debt/CLNs, the rest being new cash from Morris and the LLC. Quickly spent in this division.
Summer business was pretty poor, and the excessive injuries haven't helped. I can't believe Yates would still be starting every game if everyone was fit, Duff did drop him briefly before we lost too many forwards to leave him out. |
When I read it a while back I thought that the £ 49,361,887 was the total valuation of the club after the investments had been completed.
The £23m would be on top of the original valuation (£26m?). The Trust shares have dropped from 21% to 11% or so. Around half. The £23m is not far off half of the £49m .
The owners have invested £23m according to statements. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:32 - Nov 21 with 2082 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 12:28 - Nov 21 by 3swan |
Not an article I hoped I'd have to read.
As pointed out the have been many red flags, maybe having seen similar in the past they do tend to be worryingly obvious.
There has been so much drip drip drip, that even though I don't have the facts I do trust that some have a good network that can provide them.
Words, and my perceived reality, don't match which makes it worrying times.
Nothing surprises me now, or even in the near future, when the club is being totally run as a financial business, where the team and fans have little consideration. |
It has to run as a business. The fans were given a place of the board and a chance to run their affairs "like a business". Bayern Munich do it.
Sadly they abdicated responsibility and chose to have a quiet life in the hospitality section casting the eyes over the accounts and doing PR stuff.
The fans are actually simultaneously both owners and customers. Many now have lost interest in the Trust after the Trust saw sense and declined to put the body at risk of bankruptcy in the unfathomable legal world. The fan basically b voted for whatever the board recommended backed up by friendly fan forums.
They desperately need to use their money for some good cause relating to the club. They seem desperately short of ideas, | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:33 - Nov 21 with 2082 views | jasper_T |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 13:08 - Nov 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
When I read it a while back I thought that the £ 49,361,887 was the total valuation of the club after the investments had been completed.
The £23m would be on top of the original valuation (£26m?). The Trust shares have dropped from 21% to 11% or so. Around half. The £23m is not far off half of the £49m .
The owners have invested £23m according to statements. |
The first allotment of new shares was on 18 Nov 2022 with a value of GBP 14,699,989 (conversion of the LLC and Silverstein loan notes iirc) and the other numbers have been a running total from there.
The Trust % includes an "un-dilutable" 5% so to go from 21% to 11% should mean that the 16% of ordinary shares now represent only 6%, and the total number has closer to tripled than doubled. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:52 - Nov 21 with 2049 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:33 - Nov 21 by jasper_T |
The first allotment of new shares was on 18 Nov 2022 with a value of GBP 14,699,989 (conversion of the LLC and Silverstein loan notes iirc) and the other numbers have been a running total from there.
The Trust % includes an "un-dilutable" 5% so to go from 21% to 11% should mean that the 16% of ordinary shares now represent only 6%, and the total number has closer to tripled than doubled. |
This actually does not make sense because the value of the 5% is away changing every time there is an investment. You are suggesting that of the £3.5m investment 5% of that has gone to buy new Trust undilutable shares. A gift of £175,000 worth of new shares.
I think it is more likely the sum of all the Trust shares are diluted until they reach the 5%. Then at that point the the other investors would have to buy 5% new shares for the Trust pro rata. It sounds a good deal to me but the detail is in the fine print.
The Trust need to explicitly say the 5% is not just voting rights but entitles the Trust of 5% of the cash value on sale and 5% of all dividends. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 15:17 - Nov 21 with 2027 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:52 - Nov 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This actually does not make sense because the value of the 5% is away changing every time there is an investment. You are suggesting that of the £3.5m investment 5% of that has gone to buy new Trust undilutable shares. A gift of £175,000 worth of new shares.
I think it is more likely the sum of all the Trust shares are diluted until they reach the 5%. Then at that point the the other investors would have to buy 5% new shares for the Trust pro rata. It sounds a good deal to me but the detail is in the fine print.
The Trust need to explicitly say the 5% is not just voting rights but entitles the Trust of 5% of the cash value on sale and 5% of all dividends. |
The 5% are class A shares they are protected and can't be diluted. The rest of the shares are class B which can, and are able to be diluted. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 15:23 - Nov 21 with 2012 views | 3swan |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:32 - Nov 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It has to run as a business. The fans were given a place of the board and a chance to run their affairs "like a business". Bayern Munich do it.
Sadly they abdicated responsibility and chose to have a quiet life in the hospitality section casting the eyes over the accounts and doing PR stuff.
The fans are actually simultaneously both owners and customers. Many now have lost interest in the Trust after the Trust saw sense and declined to put the body at risk of bankruptcy in the unfathomable legal world. The fan basically b voted for whatever the board recommended backed up by friendly fan forums.
They desperately need to use their money for some good cause relating to the club. They seem desperately short of ideas, |
Yes it has to be run as a business, and my numerous posts on the subject wants us to be self sufficient without the need for extra investment (Difficult I know)
But I posted "Financial" business, where the sport side of things seem immaterial, but only as means of getting return on their investment. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 15:36 - Nov 21 with 1974 views | jasper_T |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:52 - Nov 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This actually does not make sense because the value of the 5% is away changing every time there is an investment. You are suggesting that of the £3.5m investment 5% of that has gone to buy new Trust undilutable shares. A gift of £175,000 worth of new shares.
I think it is more likely the sum of all the Trust shares are diluted until they reach the 5%. Then at that point the the other investors would have to buy 5% new shares for the Trust pro rata. It sounds a good deal to me but the detail is in the fine print.
The Trust need to explicitly say the 5% is not just voting rights but entitles the Trust of 5% of the cash value on sale and 5% of all dividends. |
The undilutable shares are of a separate category of share that will always add up to 5% of the club, yes. That was part of the settlement made to the Trust. "A gift" if you want to think of it in those terms, but in practice it's not that meaningful as the Trust cannot sell those shares (or any of their shares without the "controlling shareholder's" consent according to the articles of association), and the club aren't paying dividends. The value of that 5% is dubious, and I imagine the investors are more concerned with the club being a money pit than a sliver of the cash being shared with the Trust for a few minutes before it heads back out the door. | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 16:25 - Nov 21 with 1916 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 15:23 - Nov 21 by 3swan |
Yes it has to be run as a business, and my numerous posts on the subject wants us to be self sufficient without the need for extra investment (Difficult I know)
But I posted "Financial" business, where the sport side of things seem immaterial, but only as means of getting return on their investment. |
The arrival of Gude is an ominous sign, not least he and Coleman are above a million year as a team not including houses, cars, removals, plus both of their families. Daily expenses etc.It’s an extortionate amount of money to be paying out.
It’s just a way of clawing back the investments made in salaries which are ridiculously high. |  |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 16:32 - Nov 21 with 1906 views | 3swan |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 16:25 - Nov 21 by KeithHaynes |
The arrival of Gude is an ominous sign, not least he and Coleman are above a million year as a team not including houses, cars, removals, plus both of their families. Daily expenses etc.It’s an extortionate amount of money to be paying out.
It’s just a way of clawing back the investments made in salaries which are ridiculously high. |
Very true.
I’ve posted in many a thread that there are many legal ways of getting returns without paying dividends | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 17:51 - Nov 21 with 1834 views | KeithHaynes |
There’s one or two at the club not at all happy that we dare to challenge their club.
Yes, THEIR club.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 17:56 - Nov 21 with 1833 views | sw02sea |
Enough is enough surely?
Why are we as fans, letting the shysters get away with day light robbery?
What we need is some sort of direct action.
At least get some chants going.
“Where are you! Let’s be aving you !!! “ | | | |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 18:13 - Nov 21 with 1805 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 17:56 - Nov 21 by sw02sea |
Enough is enough surely?
Why are we as fans, letting the shysters get away with day light robbery?
What we need is some sort of direct action.
At least get some chants going.
“Where are you! Let’s be aving you !!! “ |
Direct action is coming.
I didn’t realise how many fans are unhappy with this lot until today. The reasoning has been pretty damning on them. Quite simply, gates are falling and the supporters feel undervalued.
And they are to blame.
But still there’s pots of money available to look after their personal investments.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 19:39 - Nov 21 with 1742 views | max936 |
| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 11:42 - Nov 21 by QJumpingJack |
Gude is doing a Trust forum shortly.
What questions should be asked? (making sure they are constructive).
Lets start a list on this thread and the sensible questions should be passed to the Trust to use. |
You're kidding yourself if you think the trust would ask any pertinent question's that could put their "game day experience" in jeopardy. |  |
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| Swansea City : The bizarre reality that is affecting the clubs progress on 14:08 - Nov 22 with 1524 views | QJumpingJack |
If the club was on an upward trajectory I would understand these appointment and the salaries being paid.
If KG has been working here since August - what impact has been made and why didn't they announce it in August? | | | |
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