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Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? 10th Aug 2022 11:44 Swansea City will not be pressing the panic button just yet after three games of the new season. Last nights defeat on penalties after throwing away a two nil lead will not detract from the bigger picture that Russell Martin continues to stand by. Three games should never be the basis for that.0
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Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 11:46 - Aug 10 with 2848 views
Well written piece which highlights MArtin's failure to accept he has a part in the failings
Still people talk of giving him time...what is this going to change?
He is convinced his way is the way despite no other manager attempting to play this way he has said himself he is asking the players to play in a way no other teams does it has not worked successfully or consistently during his tenure as a manager.
What other players are we going to get who will be better?
His approach in his post match interviews especially that of last nights will not help him in getting the players on board and actually shows the type of manager he is...I expect he rules by fear.....which may explain how certain players have been dumped at times...
For me last night was the final nail in the coffin...the subs were ill timed too many and the change if formation crazy.
Lets consider a few things it was Cabangos first competetive game back since April we gave him the responsibility of the Captaincy and then swopped him onto his weaker left side when he was probably tiring form a lack of match fitness and put Wood who has shown to be "weak" and a rookie midfielder playing out of position either side of him....
He swopped Congrave and Cooper around who both looked lost following the change
After all these things as you rightly say he was responsible for he then goes and blames the players.
Im sorry as Jim Reeves sang Hell have to go and before more damage is done
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 12:09 - Aug 10 by vetchonian
Well written piece which highlights MArtin's failure to accept he has a part in the failings
Still people talk of giving him time...what is this going to change?
He is convinced his way is the way despite no other manager attempting to play this way he has said himself he is asking the players to play in a way no other teams does it has not worked successfully or consistently during his tenure as a manager.
What other players are we going to get who will be better?
His approach in his post match interviews especially that of last nights will not help him in getting the players on board and actually shows the type of manager he is...I expect he rules by fear.....which may explain how certain players have been dumped at times...
For me last night was the final nail in the coffin...the subs were ill timed too many and the change if formation crazy.
Lets consider a few things it was Cabangos first competetive game back since April we gave him the responsibility of the Captaincy and then swopped him onto his weaker left side when he was probably tiring form a lack of match fitness and put Wood who has shown to be "weak" and a rookie midfielder playing out of position either side of him....
He swopped Congrave and Cooper around who both looked lost following the change
After all these things as you rightly say he was responsible for he then goes and blames the players.
Im sorry as Jim Reeves sang Hell have to go and before more damage is done
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 12:09 - Aug 10 by vetchonian
Well written piece which highlights MArtin's failure to accept he has a part in the failings
Still people talk of giving him time...what is this going to change?
He is convinced his way is the way despite no other manager attempting to play this way he has said himself he is asking the players to play in a way no other teams does it has not worked successfully or consistently during his tenure as a manager.
What other players are we going to get who will be better?
His approach in his post match interviews especially that of last nights will not help him in getting the players on board and actually shows the type of manager he is...I expect he rules by fear.....which may explain how certain players have been dumped at times...
For me last night was the final nail in the coffin...the subs were ill timed too many and the change if formation crazy.
Lets consider a few things it was Cabangos first competetive game back since April we gave him the responsibility of the Captaincy and then swopped him onto his weaker left side when he was probably tiring form a lack of match fitness and put Wood who has shown to be "weak" and a rookie midfielder playing out of position either side of him....
He swopped Congrave and Cooper around who both looked lost following the change
After all these things as you rightly say he was responsible for he then goes and blames the players.
Im sorry as Jim Reeves sang Hell have to go and before more damage is done
2-0 and cruising then the PLAYERS intervened with some appalling play.
Benda was asleep and way to casual and the wall was COWARDLY as a unit. Benda was not exactly overworked. Someone got out of the way of the ball.
Connor Roberts and Ashley Williams would have been furious. A ball cannot get through a wall without HELP from inside the camp.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 12:47 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
2-0 and cruising then the PLAYERS intervened with some appalling play.
Benda was asleep and way to casual and the wall was COWARDLY as a unit. Benda was not exactly overworked. Someone got out of the way of the ball.
Connor Roberts and Ashley Williams would have been furious. A ball cannot get through a wall without HELP from inside the camp.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 12:49]
PLAYERS put on by Martin the whole defensive unit was changed along with our shape.
We had a player making his debut usually found playing as a defensive midfielder at right centre back..we juggled the midfield
Benda should never have been put in that position this is down to MArtin
His lack of game managament and his mantra of keeping the ball There were occasions last season where players played risky infield balls from the touchline whereas the instictive ball would be down the line or into touch but they dont as it gives away possession.
The MANAGER and I use use that term very lightly as he does not demonstrate the traits of one intervned and cahanged perosnnel and shape....
I think yesterday's game should have been enough to let the owners know that his time is up. It might only be a cup game and 3rd match of the season but it highlighted so many issues. Poor game management, poor man management, poor tactics and then an inability to accept responsibility. As a company manager, you can look at that situation and see that, no matter the importance of the game, there are too many things not conducive to success
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 12:47 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
2-0 and cruising then the PLAYERS intervened with some appalling play.
Benda was asleep and way to casual and the wall was COWARDLY as a unit. Benda was not exactly overworked. Someone got out of the way of the ball.
Connor Roberts and Ashley Williams would have been furious. A ball cannot get through a wall without HELP from inside the camp.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 12:49]
You can say that about every game.
“0-0 then the players messed up”.
Martin asks his team to play those kinds of passes in and around their own box with bravery, that’s what they did, it went wrong as it has every chance to.
Buck stops with him.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 12:56 - Aug 10 by vetchonian
PLAYERS put on by Martin the whole defensive unit was changed along with our shape.
We had a player making his debut usually found playing as a defensive midfielder at right centre back..we juggled the midfield
Benda should never have been put in that position this is down to MArtin
His lack of game managament and his mantra of keeping the ball There were occasions last season where players played risky infield balls from the touchline whereas the instictive ball would be down the line or into touch but they dont as it gives away possession.
The MANAGER and I use use that term very lightly as he does not demonstrate the traits of one intervned and cahanged perosnnel and shape....
""Benda should never have been put in that position this is down to MArtin""
They are MEN not 14 year olds. He was given his chance and would have done better if he kept the ball away from the closing down player. Instead he launched into the player. That is not part of his training regime. What has he been doing for 5 weeks?
Martin should not have made so many subs for sure given his recent track record but the players let him down. Benda was the League cup man a potential 4 or 5 games. He cost the club the game and a few £100k from his sloppy play.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:13 - Aug 10 by Dr_Parnassus
You can say that about every game.
“0-0 then the players messed up”.
Martin asks his team to play those kinds of passes in and around their own box with bravery, that’s what they did, it went wrong as it has every chance to.
Buck stops with him.
None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back. Fulton received the ball in 5m of space a with options and played in a way you would not expect from a professional footballer. Inexplicable. He knows he did not concentrate.
Benda had plenty of time but took a crazy chance to hoof it away with other options. He gets away with it 9 time out of 10. He too had options. He knows he did not concentrate
The wall and who ever organised it simply did not do their job properly. Perhaps one of the kids was responsible. if they are cowardly this is a good time to find out. It was not defended with the MENTALITY required. "No ball is going through this wall" The player responsible did not concentrate. It was 90+2. Dig deep and see it out. It is an individual matter not one for the manager.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:44 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back. Fulton received the ball in 5m of space a with options and played in a way you would not expect from a professional footballer. Inexplicable. He knows he did not concentrate.
Benda had plenty of time but took a crazy chance to hoof it away with other options. He gets away with it 9 time out of 10. He too had options. He knows he did not concentrate
The wall and who ever organised it simply did not do their job properly. Perhaps one of the kids was responsible. if they are cowardly this is a good time to find out. It was not defended with the MENTALITY required. "No ball is going through this wall" The player responsible did not concentrate. It was 90+2. Dig deep and see it out. It is an individual matter not one for the manager.
You weren’t talking about Blackburn, you were talking about Oxford.
The goals against Blackburn were from the nonsensical possession obsession where Blackburn sat back waiting for the error and then pounced.
The exact thing I said teams would be doing some 8 months ago. One of the easiest tactical responses you can do. Condense the pitch, set traps and counter.
Not sure what point you are making here.
Again, why didn’t Martin say “play with mentality” and address everyone, then we would never lose a game.
Maybe we can tell him to “manage with mentality”, maybe he may then play an effective brand of football.
What you reckon?
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 13:49]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:44 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back. Fulton received the ball in 5m of space a with options and played in a way you would not expect from a professional footballer. Inexplicable. He knows he did not concentrate.
Benda had plenty of time but took a crazy chance to hoof it away with other options. He gets away with it 9 time out of 10. He too had options. He knows he did not concentrate
The wall and who ever organised it simply did not do their job properly. Perhaps one of the kids was responsible. if they are cowardly this is a good time to find out. It was not defended with the MENTALITY required. "No ball is going through this wall" The player responsible did not concentrate. It was 90+2. Dig deep and see it out. It is an individual matter not one for the manager.
Not one for the manager?
He should have been what experience was on the pitch
Im not sure how many games Cabango has been captain Joe Allen was his first game back so finishing we had
Not a lot of expereince there is there. The MANAGER is culpable for finishing with such an inexperienced set up. Admired for giving youngsters the chance BUT naive in expecting such a line up to see the game out
He made the changes at minutes 61 and 62 first goal came at 72 minutes....
DO you believe that finishing 11 has the experience and leadership required when put under pressure?
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:47 - Aug 10 by Dr_Parnassus
You weren’t talking about Blackburn, you were talking about Oxford.
The goals against Blackburn were from the nonsensical possession obsession where Blackburn sat back waiting for the error and then pounced.
The exact thing I said teams would be doing some 8 months ago. One of the easiest tactical responses you can do. Condense the pitch, set traps and counter.
Not sure what point you are making here.
Again, why didn’t Martin say “play with mentality” and address everyone, then we would never lose a game.
Maybe we can tell him to “manage with mentality”, maybe he may then play an effective brand of football.
What you reckon?
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 13:49]
Yes manage with more logic which is another word for mentality.
Given that Martin desperately needed a win having not had one since early April I seemed unwise to me to take off the effective leader Darling and give two teenagers their debut for the last 30 minutes one out of position. It seems he was focussing again on long term development and not focussing on getting the W.
This was deemed applicable last season but now he is in the "red zone" and needs a different "mentality". This match was thrown away with slack casual mentality from both players and management.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 14:09 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
Yes manage with more logic which is another word for mentality.
Given that Martin desperately needed a win having not had one since early April I seemed unwise to me to take off the effective leader Darling and give two teenagers their debut for the last 30 minutes one out of position. It seems he was focussing again on long term development and not focussing on getting the W.
This was deemed applicable last season but now he is in the "red zone" and needs a different "mentality". This match was thrown away with slack casual mentality from both players and management.
So if we tell Martin to manage with mentality… he tells the whole team to play with mentality… they all tell us to support with mentality…
We will be on to a real winner, right?
Sounds a magical solution. Can’t believe nobody thought of that.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:47 - Aug 10 by Dr_Parnassus
You weren’t talking about Blackburn, you were talking about Oxford.
The goals against Blackburn were from the nonsensical possession obsession where Blackburn sat back waiting for the error and then pounced.
The exact thing I said teams would be doing some 8 months ago. One of the easiest tactical responses you can do. Condense the pitch, set traps and counter.
Not sure what point you are making here.
Again, why didn’t Martin say “play with mentality” and address everyone, then we would never lose a game.
Maybe we can tell him to “manage with mentality”, maybe he may then play an effective brand of football.
What you reckon?
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 13:49]
I believe Martin can’t coach the style he wants and therefore has to go. But, the Blackburn defeat wasn’t down to our style or possession football. We missed some sitters which means we created chances. Goal 1 … an underweighted pass from Grimes, an error by Fulton and midfield and defence ambled back Goal 2 … we were doing what the crowd wanted and we needed to do, i.e. press for a goal but our defence had ignored their positioning and Wood was all over the place. Goal 3 .. another long ball as we tried to get a goal back, no one far enough back and Grimes's half hearted attempt at a block was a shocker. Fisher should have done better for 2 & 3
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 14:30 - Aug 10 by Badlands
I believe Martin can’t coach the style he wants and therefore has to go. But, the Blackburn defeat wasn’t down to our style or possession football. We missed some sitters which means we created chances. Goal 1 … an underweighted pass from Grimes, an error by Fulton and midfield and defence ambled back Goal 2 … we were doing what the crowd wanted and we needed to do, i.e. press for a goal but our defence had ignored their positioning and Wood was all over the place. Goal 3 .. another long ball as we tried to get a goal back, no one far enough back and Grimes's half hearted attempt at a block was a shocker. Fisher should have done better for 2 & 3
It was 100% down to the style of play.
Their manager essentially said so after the match, they prepared for it and executed the game plan they planned for.
That’s down to our style. The traps were blindingly obvious.
All players multiple marked, closing down the passing lanes. Leaving two men to press on the one defender with the ball with nowhere really to go.
As the defender is caught in possession they spring a 4 on 3 attack in unison.
They go on to score.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 14:49]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 13:44 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back. Fulton received the ball in 5m of space a with options and played in a way you would not expect from a professional footballer. Inexplicable. He knows he did not concentrate.
Benda had plenty of time but took a crazy chance to hoof it away with other options. He gets away with it 9 time out of 10. He too had options. He knows he did not concentrate
The wall and who ever organised it simply did not do their job properly. Perhaps one of the kids was responsible. if they are cowardly this is a good time to find out. It was not defended with the MENTALITY required. "No ball is going through this wall" The player responsible did not concentrate. It was 90+2. Dig deep and see it out. It is an individual matter not one for the manager.
“None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back.”
The first goal we conceded against Blackburn was literally exactly from playing the ball around the back.
36 seconds in.
Darling tries to pass it square to Wood when under pressure and gets intercepted, who then breaks clear on goal.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
We didn't lose last night due to two mistakes from players. The whole pattern of the game changed in the second half, which led to many incidents like the two they scored from. The game management was poor. it was naive. Martin admitted as much but failed to realise he was the main culprit.
Too many games under Martin we look at one or two chances and think if only they'd gone in we'd have won easily, ignoring the 3 or 4 (or 5 or 6...) that the opposition didn't take advantage of. That wasn't the only dodgy backpass that Benda had to deal with, he made a tidy save from one opportunity given up when the score was 2-1. They were banging on the door the last 10 minutes. On another day it wouldn't have even gone to penalties, we'd have been out in normal time.
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Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 19:38 - Aug 10 with 2099 views
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 19:38 - Aug 10 by ploppy
Ha! It was Fulton trying to play the ball square to Naughton. Apart from that you're right.
The bigger question is why Fulton was in that position.
One of our midfielders is always in that position, this is Martin's system.
Downes used to drop into the back line regularly, Grimes does it, now Fulton too. It's not a coincidence.
Whichever midfielder has not dropped into the back line comes short to offer himself for a wall pass (which is what Grimes does in this example). The opposition are waiting for it and at least once or twice a game manage to steal the ball, either from the midfielder or from the defender when the pass goes astray or is miscontrolled (these mistakes are bound to happen because everybody is under pressure from the press and are seemingly not allowed to bang it long).
The opposition score so many goals from these situations because when they are stealing the ball the midfielders they have, sitting in, spring the counter-attack and they have an overlap or at least a 3 on 3 or a 4 on 4 in our final third with bags of space (as our full-backs are in the forward line and our midfielders were trying to find space to allow the defenders to play it out and are wide open).
It happens over and over and over and nobody seems to learn anything.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 20:00 - Aug 10 by Kerouac
One of our midfielders is always in that position, this is Martin's system.
Downes used to drop into the back line regularly, Grimes does it, now Fulton too. It's not a coincidence.
Whichever midfielder has not dropped into the back line comes short to offer himself for a wall pass (which is what Grimes does in this example). The opposition are waiting for it and at least once or twice a game manage to steal the ball, either from the midfielder or from the defender when the pass goes astray or is miscontrolled (these mistakes are bound to happen because everybody is under pressure from the press and are seemingly not allowed to bang it long).
The opposition score so many goals from these situations because when they are stealing the ball the midfielders they have, sitting in, spring the counter-attack and they have an overlap or at least a 3 on 3 or a 4 on 4 in our final third with bags of space (as our full-backs are in the forward line and our midfielders were trying to find space to allow the defenders to play it out and are wide open).
It happens over and over and over and nobody seems to learn anything.
I know, but I don't want to see Fulton there. He's not used to being there and he doesn't have the pace to recover. The sensible ball, for him, was back to the keeper.
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Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 20:42 - Aug 10 with 1983 views
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 14:58 - Aug 10 by Dr_Parnassus
“None of the goals v Blackburn were from playing the ball around at the back.”
The first goal we conceded against Blackburn was literally exactly from playing the ball around the back.
36 seconds in.
Darling tries to pass it square to Wood when under pressure and gets intercepted, who then breaks clear on goal.
It was in midfield. Grimes was in the attacking half. It was routine play. Nothing to do with obscure tactical shenanigans. Schoolboy error by a senior professional plain and simple.
Swansea City to allow Russell Martin more time ? on 20:42 - Aug 10 by ReslovenSwan1
It was in midfield. Grimes was in the attacking half. It was routine play. Nothing to do with obscure tactical shenanigans. Schoolboy error by a senior professional plain and simple.
What?
The defensive line was high due to Blackburn condensing the field, it doesn’t mean it was the midfield - it was the defence passing back and fore to each other with the help of grimes of course.
In your desperate need to make an about turn (again) you are coming across very silly.
This was the pass that was intercepted. An attempted ball by Darling across our defensive line to Wood.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
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