| Is homophobia still present within football? 17:08 - Feb 22 with 7368 views | footballfan22 |
After the recent story involving Serge Aurier which hit the headlines, do you believe there is still homophobia embedded within football, its players or the fans?
Below is a short study which will aim to answer this question, therefore any responses will be greatly appreciated. This study is for a master’s project for a UK university. The link is as follows: https://lboro.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/attitudes-towards-homophobia
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 15:54 - Feb 23 with 1822 views | paulparker |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 15:50 - Feb 23 by TheBlob |
Are you still allowed to throw bananas at your missus? |
you can if they are dressed like this Blob
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| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:01 - Feb 23 with 1810 views | Juzzie |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 13:59 - Feb 23 by vblockranger |
Got called homophobic the other day for laughing at some big bloke in a wig and a ladies dress putting on a high voice to order Mcdonalds ..... sorry but he was hilarious. Back in the 70's the bloke would probably have got a pasting for walking round like that so i would say things have improved massively. Fair play to the fella for the bottle. Up to him what he wears or has done to his body just dont expect some people to not find it comical. |
Those people who called you homophobic.... how do they know that bloke was gay? He might not have been. Drag queens/transvestites quite often are not. Another example of people very quick to pull out the homophobe/race/etc card. |  | | |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:09 - Feb 23 with 1784 views | TheBlob |
Strange world we live in where the tail constantly wags the dog.If God(tick as preferred) had meant that to happen He would have fitted us with wing mirrors. |  |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:13 - Feb 23 with 1777 views | QPR_John |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 14:33 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
*Rolls eyes*
I think the point is that the people who are best positioned to know how racist/sexist/homophobic Britain is are probably not white heterosexual men (who, for the record, remain by some distance the most powerful demographic group in Britain, by a vast margin). |
But I am sure you will agree being a white heterosexual man does not preclude the ability to distinguish between humourous banter and racism/homophobia/sexism | | | |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:22 - Feb 23 with 1761 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 15:50 - Feb 23 by TheBlob |
Are you still allowed to throw bananas at your missus? |
I'm not brave enough to find out. [Post edited 23 Feb 2016 16:22]
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:42 - Feb 23 with 1738 views | isawqpratwcity |
Getting back to the OP (if you haven't already got fed up with the way this thread is going), perhaps you could post the report on your findings at some stage? |  |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:48 - Feb 23 with 1727 views | PlanetHonneywood |
First question of the survey is an absolute killer.
Do you consider yourself a football fan, with options being from strongly agree to strongly disagree. There doesn't appear to be a 'No I'm a QPR fan' option!
Good luck with the survey and it would be interesting to read the results, albeit I think the more pertinent survey group would be players and coaching staff. |  |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 17:25 - Feb 23 with 1683 views | johncharles |
What sort of discussion can you have when you brand people "homophobic" . It suggests a mental illness.
It also suggests a sense of humour bypass. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 17:58 - Feb 23 with 1660 views | NW5Hoop |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 16:13 - Feb 23 by QPR_John |
But I am sure you will agree being a white heterosexual man does not preclude the ability to distinguish between humourous banter and racism/homophobia/sexism |
But what a white heterosexual man might perceive as banter might be seen as homophobia by a gay person. I've seen people on here calling the chants at games against Brighton "banter", but I bet hearing thousands of people singing songs predicated on being gay being worthy of insult doesn't seem like banter. And the reason it's more serious than singing songs about Liverpool slums or whatever, is that people don't get attacked or killed for being from Liverpool, whereas they still do for being gay, if they meet the wrong person.
As a ginger man, I get ginger "banter" all the bloody time, and it never strikes me as amusing "banter". It strikes me as ignorant cocks letting their mouths run away with them because they never stop to think about what they're saying. I don't think they hate me for having ginger hair, or that that they want me beaten up. I think they haven't thought about me as an actual person, just as an object, and who gives a toss about insulting an object? So when a stranger on the street gives me some "ginger banter", as happens a lot more often than you would think, I tell them in return exactly what I think of them. Guess what? They're always shocked and upset. Because calling me a "ginger wan-er" was just a bit of banter, whereas me calling them a "f*cking inbred halfwit" was unnecessary and insulting. Banterers always think banter is a bit of a larf.
Words have power. The use of certain words about certain groups helps create the climate in which it becomes possible to discriminate them, because you stop thinking about them as people. Gay people stop being people, they become "fags"; black people stop being people, they become "n*****s". It's a pattern throughout history: the first step in the Holocaust wasn't building gas chambers, it was referring to Jewish people as a monolithic, subhuman group. It was isolating them through language, then action, and then killing them. | | | |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 18:26 - Feb 23 with 1628 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 17:58 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
But what a white heterosexual man might perceive as banter might be seen as homophobia by a gay person. I've seen people on here calling the chants at games against Brighton "banter", but I bet hearing thousands of people singing songs predicated on being gay being worthy of insult doesn't seem like banter. And the reason it's more serious than singing songs about Liverpool slums or whatever, is that people don't get attacked or killed for being from Liverpool, whereas they still do for being gay, if they meet the wrong person.
As a ginger man, I get ginger "banter" all the bloody time, and it never strikes me as amusing "banter". It strikes me as ignorant cocks letting their mouths run away with them because they never stop to think about what they're saying. I don't think they hate me for having ginger hair, or that that they want me beaten up. I think they haven't thought about me as an actual person, just as an object, and who gives a toss about insulting an object? So when a stranger on the street gives me some "ginger banter", as happens a lot more often than you would think, I tell them in return exactly what I think of them. Guess what? They're always shocked and upset. Because calling me a "ginger wan-er" was just a bit of banter, whereas me calling them a "f*cking inbred halfwit" was unnecessary and insulting. Banterers always think banter is a bit of a larf.
Words have power. The use of certain words about certain groups helps create the climate in which it becomes possible to discriminate them, because you stop thinking about them as people. Gay people stop being people, they become "fags"; black people stop being people, they become "n*****s". It's a pattern throughout history: the first step in the Holocaust wasn't building gas chambers, it was referring to Jewish people as a monolithic, subhuman group. It was isolating them through language, then action, and then killing them. |
Superb post, particularly the last paragraph. |  |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 18:26 - Feb 23 with 1628 views | PunteR |
Apart from when playing Brighton is there a lot of homophobic chants at football?
Its more accepted these days, kids at my kids school are coming out as being gay ,that would never of happened in my day. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:05 - Feb 23 with 1593 views | TacticalR |
NW5Hoop, I do think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
Is language really the cause of all these ideas? In my opinion anti-gay sentiments arose from something objective - the organisation of the family within capitalist society. The family was considered natural, so anything that didn't fit into the family was considered unnatural.
The Jews were a scapegoat for an objective problem - the breakdown of German capitalism at the end of the 1920s. Hitler didn't come to power because the masses were mesmerised by his language.
To use a counter-example... America is very politically correct these days. One thing that struck me watching a recent Youtube video of the Texas police attacking a black girl at a pool party was that there was no racist language, nor need for any - the police simply carried out their racist attack in broad daylight. This is why a recent study of the American prison system was entitled 'Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness'.
It seems to me better to demonstrate that divisions between people are not in our interest rather than policing language. |  |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:17 - Feb 23 with 1574 views | TheBlob |
PC is becoming risible to the point of farce.It's only a race to see who can be the most outraged,the most sanctimonious and therby gather more kudos from ones' peers The more you suppress the greater the reaction and the inevitable backlash will see unbridled joy on a par with the Restoration. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:31 - Feb 23 with 1565 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:05 - Feb 23 by TacticalR |
NW5Hoop, I do think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
Is language really the cause of all these ideas? In my opinion anti-gay sentiments arose from something objective - the organisation of the family within capitalist society. The family was considered natural, so anything that didn't fit into the family was considered unnatural.
The Jews were a scapegoat for an objective problem - the breakdown of German capitalism at the end of the 1920s. Hitler didn't come to power because the masses were mesmerised by his language.
To use a counter-example... America is very politically correct these days. One thing that struck me watching a recent Youtube video of the Texas police attacking a black girl at a pool party was that there was no racist language, nor need for any - the police simply carried out their racist attack in broad daylight. This is why a recent study of the American prison system was entitled 'Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness'.
It seems to me better to demonstrate that divisions between people are not in our interest rather than policing language. |
That's a very eloquent and intelligent post, and I think you have a point.
I don't think it's language that normalises racism and/or homophobia (although we've seen in the past that effective language has a part in convincing), more it's the expression and verbalisation of racist and homophobic language. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:32 - Feb 23 with 1557 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:17 - Feb 23 by TheBlob |
PC is becoming risible to the point of farce.It's only a race to see who can be the most outraged,the most sanctimonious and therby gather more kudos from ones' peers The more you suppress the greater the reaction and the inevitable backlash will see unbridled joy on a par with the Restoration. |
Political correctness is often just a synonym for decency. The phrase itself is meaningless. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:34 - Feb 23 with 1551 views | johncharles |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 17:58 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
But what a white heterosexual man might perceive as banter might be seen as homophobia by a gay person. I've seen people on here calling the chants at games against Brighton "banter", but I bet hearing thousands of people singing songs predicated on being gay being worthy of insult doesn't seem like banter. And the reason it's more serious than singing songs about Liverpool slums or whatever, is that people don't get attacked or killed for being from Liverpool, whereas they still do for being gay, if they meet the wrong person.
As a ginger man, I get ginger "banter" all the bloody time, and it never strikes me as amusing "banter". It strikes me as ignorant cocks letting their mouths run away with them because they never stop to think about what they're saying. I don't think they hate me for having ginger hair, or that that they want me beaten up. I think they haven't thought about me as an actual person, just as an object, and who gives a toss about insulting an object? So when a stranger on the street gives me some "ginger banter", as happens a lot more often than you would think, I tell them in return exactly what I think of them. Guess what? They're always shocked and upset. Because calling me a "ginger wan-er" was just a bit of banter, whereas me calling them a "f*cking inbred halfwit" was unnecessary and insulting. Banterers always think banter is a bit of a larf.
Words have power. The use of certain words about certain groups helps create the climate in which it becomes possible to discriminate them, because you stop thinking about them as people. Gay people stop being people, they become "fags"; black people stop being people, they become "n*****s". It's a pattern throughout history: the first step in the Holocaust wasn't building gas chambers, it was referring to Jewish people as a monolithic, subhuman group. It was isolating them through language, then action, and then killing them. |
Much like calling people Homophobic or Antisemetic | |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 22:20 - Feb 23 with 1463 views | TheBlob |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:32 - Feb 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Political correctness is often just a synonym for decency. The phrase itself is meaningless. |
And yet it is the filter through which all human life must flow,apparently.
"Decency" is a door that opens both ways. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 23:02 - Feb 23 with 1436 views | PunteR |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 22:20 - Feb 23 by TheBlob |
And yet it is the filter through which all human life must flow,apparently.
"Decency" is a door that opens both ways. |
Decency swings both ways?...  | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 00:46 - Feb 24 with 1401 views | FDC |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:05 - Feb 23 by TacticalR |
NW5Hoop, I do think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
Is language really the cause of all these ideas? In my opinion anti-gay sentiments arose from something objective - the organisation of the family within capitalist society. The family was considered natural, so anything that didn't fit into the family was considered unnatural.
The Jews were a scapegoat for an objective problem - the breakdown of German capitalism at the end of the 1920s. Hitler didn't come to power because the masses were mesmerised by his language.
To use a counter-example... America is very politically correct these days. One thing that struck me watching a recent Youtube video of the Texas police attacking a black girl at a pool party was that there was no racist language, nor need for any - the police simply carried out their racist attack in broad daylight. This is why a recent study of the American prison system was entitled 'Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness'.
It seems to me better to demonstrate that divisions between people are not in our interest rather than policing language. |
I agree with TR, and would possibly even up the ante (not you Antti): prejudice such as racism and homophobia is best understood in terms of whose interests it serves, or has served historically, and the associated language best understood as the policing of those interests.
To use those two examples, racism can be understood as stemming from the early 'primitive accumulation' by capital in the form of slavery; and homophobia is arguably best understood as the imperative to enforce the hetero-normative behaviour and therefore the nuclear family that was seen as necessary for the reproduction of the worker and therefore labour power.
Associated with this is the need to police female promiscuity, again often through language (slag, slut, whore etc) so that woman are encouraged/coerced into fulfilling a carer role in society ('social reproduction') i.e. providing sustenance and care for their worker husbands when they get home (unpaid and therefore at no cost to capital) so that they can get up the next day and go back to work, and of course to produce and care for the next generation of workers. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 3:13]
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 06:18 - Feb 24 with 1330 views | distortR |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 12:02 - Feb 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
That's not what he said, John, in fairness.
I'm a white heterosexual man and I've never felt like that. Truth be told I got dealt very lucky cards. |
( Not from where i'm standing)
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 06:36 - Feb 24 with 1317 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 06:18 - Feb 24 by distortR |
( Not from where i'm standing)
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Stalker. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 14:12 - Feb 24 with 1218 views | loftboy |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 18:26 - Feb 23 by PunteR |
Apart from when playing Brighton is there a lot of homophobic chants at football?
Its more accepted these days, kids at my kids school are coming out as being gay ,that would never of happened in my day. |
Watford at home in the mid eighties,they were rock bottom and played for one of the most tedious 0-0 draws ever witnessed at LR, Elton john arrived at KO in the directors box in the largest brimmed hat you've ever seen, queue 20000 Rangers fans chanting"Elton johns a homosexual" non stop for 90 minutes (he had just married that Renata bird) imagine the headlines today,so in summary it must have improved. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 14:16]
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 15:14 - Feb 24 with 1188 views | Mvpeter |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 19:32 - Feb 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Political correctness is often just a synonym for decency. The phrase itself is meaningless. |
The phrase itself is scary. | |
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| Is homophobia still present within football? on 15:17 - Feb 24 with 1184 views | Mvpeter |
| Is homophobia still present within football? on 14:33 - Feb 23 by NW5Hoop |
*Rolls eyes*
I think the point is that the people who are best positioned to know how racist/sexist/homophobic Britain is are probably not white heterosexual men (who, for the record, remain by some distance the most powerful demographic group in Britain, by a vast margin). |
Most powerful demographic group? Rates of unemployment, suicide, workplace deaths, health, education and available legal rights etc etc for men and earnings, health etc etc etc for Jewish and Asian men make that questionable. | |
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