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New keeper starts today on 19:25 - Jul 27 by 49thseason
The definition of stupidity is to keep repeating the same thing and expecting a different result. If you keep putting new surfaces on top of a sub-surface infrastructure that is not capable of handling the water that drains through the top surface ........we never see any pictures of the drains under the pitch being renewed or even being rodded, but we do see lots of heavy machinery running up and down stripping old turf off and laying new turf which may well disrupt such drainage as there may, or may not be. The only real solution is to dig down 2 feet all the way around the pitch and run proper drains off the pitch into channels that have direct run off into the main drains on Sandy Lane. At some clubs they achieve this by raising the pitch a couple of feet.
Oh please send this to our CEO and stand next to him until he understands it.
If he isn't the decision maker in this, then he should be, and if he is, he just isn't getting the message. Are the decisions his alone or put to the Board for approval?
We have a very wet climate. The wettest in any large town in England. We need especially good drainage in place, or ANY pitch will fall foul of the climate.
The drains are, and have been the problem for decades, yet we blindly ignore numerous companies telling us this because we don't like the cost. I seem to recall an announcement a few years back telling us that there were in fact no real drains under most of the pitch. Has anything been done about this? And if so, do we carry out maintenance on these drains?
It's cost us a damn sight more in not addressing the issue, or by using cheap fertilizer instead of the correct stuff, or by employing a cheap groundsman a couple of years ago who ruined the pitch and compressed the substructure.
I wonder why the contractor was changed at the last minute? Cost again perhaps? Premier Pitches have an excellent reputation, but we didn't use them, after announcing that we were doing.
Please, someone ask the question on Monday. And don't stand for any bullshit coming from the top table.
It will be too late to act for the coming season, so the best we can hope for is for a relatively dry Autumn/Winter...but leaving this to chance is taking a huge risk.
And cutting costs on something as fundamentally important as having games go ahead is not the answer. Some things in life are inevitable. Death, taxes and that it'll piss it down in Rochdale.
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New keeper starts today on 20:31 - Jul 27 with 1924 views
New keeper starts today on 20:25 - Jul 27 by dawlishdale
Oh please send this to our CEO and stand next to him until he understands it.
If he isn't the decision maker in this, then he should be, and if he is, he just isn't getting the message. Are the decisions his alone or put to the Board for approval?
We have a very wet climate. The wettest in any large town in England. We need especially good drainage in place, or ANY pitch will fall foul of the climate.
The drains are, and have been the problem for decades, yet we blindly ignore numerous companies telling us this because we don't like the cost. I seem to recall an announcement a few years back telling us that there were in fact no real drains under most of the pitch. Has anything been done about this? And if so, do we carry out maintenance on these drains?
It's cost us a damn sight more in not addressing the issue, or by using cheap fertilizer instead of the correct stuff, or by employing a cheap groundsman a couple of years ago who ruined the pitch and compressed the substructure.
I wonder why the contractor was changed at the last minute? Cost again perhaps? Premier Pitches have an excellent reputation, but we didn't use them, after announcing that we were doing.
Please, someone ask the question on Monday. And don't stand for any bullshit coming from the top table.
It will be too late to act for the coming season, so the best we can hope for is for a relatively dry Autumn/Winter...but leaving this to chance is taking a huge risk.
And cutting costs on something as fundamentally important as having games go ahead is not the answer. Some things in life are inevitable. Death, taxes and that it'll piss it down in Rochdale.
Good luck with your forlorn hope of the chief executive/director listening and understanding.
Latest statement sees the increasingly puppet-like manager professing meteorlogical explanations for today's adverse weather conditions causing concerns for player safety, and that's what it's all about.
Anyone running a business would not put employees into a place that could affect their safety. Even the British Army conduct risk assessments in a battle arena. This place of work should have been able to deal with a summer rainfall. It failed both spectacularly and potentially dangerously.
The pitch has failed under the barely testing circumstances of today's rain because we have got the specification and/or contractor wrong.
Someone in a decision making role at the club has to be accountable.
New keeper starts today on 20:25 - Jul 27 by dawlishdale
Oh please send this to our CEO and stand next to him until he understands it.
If he isn't the decision maker in this, then he should be, and if he is, he just isn't getting the message. Are the decisions his alone or put to the Board for approval?
We have a very wet climate. The wettest in any large town in England. We need especially good drainage in place, or ANY pitch will fall foul of the climate.
The drains are, and have been the problem for decades, yet we blindly ignore numerous companies telling us this because we don't like the cost. I seem to recall an announcement a few years back telling us that there were in fact no real drains under most of the pitch. Has anything been done about this? And if so, do we carry out maintenance on these drains?
It's cost us a damn sight more in not addressing the issue, or by using cheap fertilizer instead of the correct stuff, or by employing a cheap groundsman a couple of years ago who ruined the pitch and compressed the substructure.
I wonder why the contractor was changed at the last minute? Cost again perhaps? Premier Pitches have an excellent reputation, but we didn't use them, after announcing that we were doing.
Please, someone ask the question on Monday. And don't stand for any bullshit coming from the top table.
It will be too late to act for the coming season, so the best we can hope for is for a relatively dry Autumn/Winter...but leaving this to chance is taking a huge risk.
And cutting costs on something as fundamentally important as having games go ahead is not the answer. Some things in life are inevitable. Death, taxes and that it'll piss it down in Rochdale.
Apart from telling everybody he is in charge there is an awful lot of evidence to suggest that he is not.
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New keeper starts today on 21:15 - Jul 27 with 1752 views
In answer to Rotherhamdale, we were quite poor. The defence was easily breached with almost every attack from Bradford. Midfield was all over the place with little structure and we had one shot on target. Plus points :- Camps looks less leaden footed, MJ was strong with good distribution and Pikey is showing improvement with more game time. It’s only a friendly so more relevant assessment will be valid when the season starts. Up the Dale
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New keeper starts today on 21:25 - Jul 27 with 1720 views
New keeper starts today on 20:05 - Jul 27 by fitzochris
I’m glad so many others have replied, as I wouldn’t have been so reserved.
Thanks Chris for being so reserved it's not like you to hold back on putting me right when it's called for. Just who is to blame in all this? a silly question I know, seeing you have told us. It's no use asking me I haven't got any qualifications on drainage issues or a degree or diploma, not even a certificate in Horticulture, I'm not even in the know like you are so you must pardon my temerity to suggest that the contractor might be apportioned some if not a major portion of the blame.
This is not the time for bickering.
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New keeper starts today on 23:21 - Jul 27 with 1483 views
New keeper starts today on 22:54 - Jul 27 by Daley_Lama
We looked ok to me against the favourites for League 2.So much so that Bradford fans were singing promotion songs before a ball had been kicked.
We played 4-1-4-1 with Hendo up top, Calvin LM, Pyke RM, MJ as the holding midfielder.
Most of our play came down our right, Pyke looked in decent form however crosses weren’t great.
Keeper is a big lad, took one cross from a corner commandingly, had one hairy moment when he came out and got lobbed, decent feet.
Rathbone very busy with interesting hair.
We do come across a bit toothless up front, but snarly Vaughn types (nice role model Captain) don’t come cheap.
Looking forward to the re-arranged match with my non-existant voicher.
We do get the opportunity "to get our own back" on today when we play the Bantams in the EFL trophy on their midden 12th November.....only a few weeks off.
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New keeper starts today on 23:28 - Jul 27 with 1459 views
New keeper starts today on 23:16 - Jul 27 by kiwidale
Thanks Chris for being so reserved it's not like you to hold back on putting me right when it's called for. Just who is to blame in all this? a silly question I know, seeing you have told us. It's no use asking me I haven't got any qualifications on drainage issues or a degree or diploma, not even a certificate in Horticulture, I'm not even in the know like you are so you must pardon my temerity to suggest that the contractor might be apportioned some if not a major portion of the blame.
I doubt that anyone involved in placing the contract is similarly qualified, so you would expect that professional advice is sought, along with references.
I am currently involved in a purchase of a new build factory. Never bought one before. Our agent was about to sign off as "Practical completion". I refused it and found 114 snags.
The point being that due dilligence is absolutely essential irrespective of experience and qualifications.
The pitch has proven to be unfit for purpose today. Again.
It's a major source of both revenue drain and gain. It simply had to be right.
Its not and someone has signed it off, I expect, as practically complete, ie fit for purpose.
I would hope it's not been signed off as acceptable by us.
I doubt that anyone involved in placing the contract is similarly qualified, so you would expect that professional advice is sought, along with references.
I am currently involved in a purchase of a new build factory. Never bought one before. Our agent was about to sign off as "Practical completion". I refused it and found 114 snags.
The point being that due dilligence is absolutely essential irrespective of experience and qualifications.
The pitch has proven to be unfit for purpose today. Again.
It's a major source of both revenue drain and gain. It simply had to be right.
Its not and someone has signed it off, I expect, as practically complete, ie fit for purpose.
I would hope it's not been signed off as acceptable by us.
Points taken. I would be alarmed if we have signed the pitch off or even been required to do so. Now having found a major fault with it I would be even more alarmed if all or any moneys over what is normal progress payments been paid. The comparison to a new factory build is hardly apples with apples its not as if we don't already own the ground. I would expect the club to have done due diligence and have been fully advised as the work progressed. The decision to carry out the work by the winning tender will have been taken by the full board not just one man, based on assurances that the pitch on completion would be fit for purpose. The contractor will be sweating over this and that legal advise by both parties will be sought first thing Monday morning.
edit to add if the contractor advised the club that the drains need upgrading and the club has ignored that advise then heads should roll. One thing that is certain is that we are all guessing about what has happened and why it has happened. To blame one man until all facts are known is unfair and unwise.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 1:51]
This is not the time for bickering.
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New keeper starts today on 05:48 - Jul 28 with 1278 views
New keeper starts today on 16:38 - Jul 27 by electricblue
Even more heavy rain forecast for the rest of today and sunday....
It's been raining heavily for the past hour or so at least. Don't know how fit for purpose the pitch will be today for rugby league, but Peppa Pig and friends would love it!
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New keeper starts today on 09:33 - Jul 28 with 1076 views
New keeper starts today on 01:34 - Jul 28 by kiwidale
Points taken. I would be alarmed if we have signed the pitch off or even been required to do so. Now having found a major fault with it I would be even more alarmed if all or any moneys over what is normal progress payments been paid. The comparison to a new factory build is hardly apples with apples its not as if we don't already own the ground. I would expect the club to have done due diligence and have been fully advised as the work progressed. The decision to carry out the work by the winning tender will have been taken by the full board not just one man, based on assurances that the pitch on completion would be fit for purpose. The contractor will be sweating over this and that legal advise by both parties will be sought first thing Monday morning.
edit to add if the contractor advised the club that the drains need upgrading and the club has ignored that advise then heads should roll. One thing that is certain is that we are all guessing about what has happened and why it has happened. To blame one man until all facts are known is unfair and unwise.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 1:51]
The man at the top of the tree is directly responsible for things either happening at his level or below, if folk below him haven't done their job correctly again that falls on his toes too eventually.
By all accounts a recent pitch we put down allegedly was laid with specific instruction by the contractor to maintain it as requested per spec, meaning we would still need to spend a set amount of time/money continually to keep the surface in such a condition,ill let you hazard a guess what actually happened....i wonder what that boiled down to?
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 9:34]
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New keeper starts today on 09:45 - Jul 28 with 1047 views
if our suspicions about why the playing area has been narrowed are correct, wouldn't this imply that the state of the drainage was known about rather than yesterday being a complete surprise?
The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance.
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New keeper starts today on 10:22 - Jul 28 with 958 views
Only way to resolve the pitch issue with the season upon is constant professional maintainence until the seasons end. Then the plan should be at then end of the 2019/20 season is to immediatly remove the playing surface and get to the drainage and do what is properly required and properly build up the layers and relay the surface.
From may to the week before the 2020/21 starts no natches from football to rugby. Dale would have to play their preseason games away except for a game during the week before the season starts..
One plausible reason for the game to be abandoned is could the wrong sand used prior to the spurs game worked its way into the drainage system and caused the lack of water to filter away.....
Anyway like somebody as posted the drains have been an issue for decades...
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
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New keeper starts today on 10:48 - Jul 28 with 906 views
New keeper starts today on 01:34 - Jul 28 by kiwidale
Points taken. I would be alarmed if we have signed the pitch off or even been required to do so. Now having found a major fault with it I would be even more alarmed if all or any moneys over what is normal progress payments been paid. The comparison to a new factory build is hardly apples with apples its not as if we don't already own the ground. I would expect the club to have done due diligence and have been fully advised as the work progressed. The decision to carry out the work by the winning tender will have been taken by the full board not just one man, based on assurances that the pitch on completion would be fit for purpose. The contractor will be sweating over this and that legal advise by both parties will be sought first thing Monday morning.
edit to add if the contractor advised the club that the drains need upgrading and the club has ignored that advise then heads should roll. One thing that is certain is that we are all guessing about what has happened and why it has happened. To blame one man until all facts are known is unfair and unwise.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 1:51]
You're right in that we do not know the process that has been gone through.
However, one person is charged with the effective management of the operational side of the club, appointed via a non-competitive process, and so flak will be aimed in his direction.
Given the usual bombastic announcements about the pitch as referenced by 442Dale I would expect that they were made with the absolute confidence of someone having all boxes ticked.
New keeper starts today on 09:45 - Jul 28 by mikehunt
if our suspicions about why the playing area has been narrowed are correct, wouldn't this imply that the state of the drainage was known about rather than yesterday being a complete surprise?
I'd imagine the pitch size is more to do with the way BBM wants to play
I doubt that anyone involved in placing the contract is similarly qualified, so you would expect that professional advice is sought, along with references.
I am currently involved in a purchase of a new build factory. Never bought one before. Our agent was about to sign off as "Practical completion". I refused it and found 114 snags.
The point being that due dilligence is absolutely essential irrespective of experience and qualifications.
The pitch has proven to be unfit for purpose today. Again.
It's a major source of both revenue drain and gain. It simply had to be right.
Its not and someone has signed it off, I expect, as practically complete, ie fit for purpose.
I would hope it's not been signed off as acceptable by us.
What really pisses me off is that cash from past add-ons and from selling talented youngsters, that could be used on the current playing squad to make us more competitive, continues to be haemmorhaged because the pitch has never been done properly. It isn't just the playing surface which needs to be fit for purpose. So do the decision makers and the decisions.
New keeper starts today on 11:25 - Jul 28 by DaleiLama
What really pisses me off is that cash from past add-ons and from selling talented youngsters, that could be used on the current playing squad to make us more competitive, continues to be haemmorhaged because the pitch has never been done properly. It isn't just the playing surface which needs to be fit for purpose. So do the decision makers and the decisions.
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 14:04]
Indeed
The whole marketing strategy to get more people into COA is at risk due to this incompetence
If there's a hint of more than a shower around (so to speak), who would set out to travel to COA from further afield than a few miles? And that applies to opposition fans as well as to those such as yourself and even longer-distance fans
I think we're all having nightmares about the season being blighted by postponements and abandonments, with the resulting effect on our playing fortunes that fixture congestion can cause, plus the cost of meeting the finances of teams who've set out to visit the COA in good faith. As if BBM's job wasn't hard enough...
New keeper starts today on 09:33 - Jul 28 by nordenblue
The man at the top of the tree is directly responsible for things either happening at his level or below, if folk below him haven't done their job correctly again that falls on his toes too eventually.
By all accounts a recent pitch we put down allegedly was laid with specific instruction by the contractor to maintain it as requested per spec, meaning we would still need to spend a set amount of time/money continually to keep the surface in such a condition,ill let you hazard a guess what actually happened....i wonder what that boiled down to?
[Post edited 28 Jul 2019 9:34]
That's also the story I heard.
There were two options - 1 a very expensive job but one that would be relatively maintenance free. 2 a less expensive job that would need plenty of maintenance.
Option 2 was chosen but for whatever reasons the maintenance schedule wasn't adhered to.
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