| A 2nd Referendum 12:36 - Dec 1 with 19448 views | ScottishEddie |
Why are leavers so oposed to this? Niw that they now all the facts and how great Brexit is going to be surely they are more confident? |  |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 15:53 - Dec 3 with 1357 views | swan65split |
We will get what the MPs want not what the people voted for.......ie No Brexit.
and the end of this Country as we knew it. |  | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:03 - Dec 3 with 1348 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 14:40 - Dec 3 by sherpajacob |
"It was never incompetence, it was the plan all along. "
You believe this is all a plan conceived and masterly executed by Theresa May.
You could be right, however one critical piece of evidence suggests otherwise. - Name something else Theresa May has conceived and executed with masterly competence. |
Where did I say it was created by May? | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:08 - Dec 3 with 1347 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 13:27 - Dec 3 by sherpajacob |
The referendum asked one binary question. Remain or Leave the EU.
May's deal means we leave the EU, Brexit means brexit.
The problem ,which was always bleeding obvious to anyone with a brain, is all those leavers who say they knew exactly what they voted for, all voted for different things.
Some want Canada +, some EFTA, some EEA, some want just WTO. There is no consensus and no agreement because they all promised different things, many of which are contradictory.
The promises of vote leave were never deliverable, and now these people champion no deal, so that they can still blame UK woes on supposed EU intransigence.
The only people not worried by no deal are those already with sufficient assets to pay privately for their health care and children's education. |
"The only people not worried by no deal are those already with sufficient assets to pay privately for their health care and children's education. "
Wow, just wow.
You mean that leaving the EU means that the NHS and Public Schools will all close?
Where do you get such idiotic ideas from? | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:11 - Dec 3 with 1339 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 08:02 - Dec 3 by ItchySphincter |
Gove, Johnson, Farage.
I’m starting to believe that there is an upside to leaving, ie, dumbos like you get what you wish for. Trouble is, the collateral damage is too high. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 8:07]
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I’m starting to believe that there is an upside to staying, ie, dumbos like you get what you wish for. Trouble is, the collateral damage is too high.
There fixed it for you. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:11]
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| A 2nd Referendum on 16:14 - Dec 3 with 1338 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 14:30 - Dec 3 by sherpajacob |
Turkey is in the customs union, Switzerland has freedom of movement and is a member of
Schengen.
are Turkey and Switzerland in the EU?
Where did it mention freedom of movement and customs union on the ballot paper? |
Which just proves that the EU can be flexible when it suits them.
Perhaps you should also research some of the deals that have been done with other countries outside the EU when it suits them, ie they want something enough.
For instance the one with promoter of Human rights Pakistan.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/pakistan/ [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:22]
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| A 2nd Referendum on 16:30 - Dec 3 with 1327 views | Batterseajack |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:14 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Which just proves that the EU can be flexible when it suits them.
Perhaps you should also research some of the deals that have been done with other countries outside the EU when it suits them, ie they want something enough.
For instance the one with promoter of Human rights Pakistan.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/pakistan/ [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:22]
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We could have had the Canada deal, but there's the issue about a border on the island of Ireland. Both a border on the main land or in the sea are red lines so we've ended up with this fudge that you don't like.
Quick scroll down to the bottom of that link and it appears that that trade deal is largely based around the trade of textiles into the EU. The GSP+ arrangement is for countries like Armenia, Bolivia, Cape Verde, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Georgia, Mongolia, Paraguay, Pakistan and Peru. Not sure that arrangement would work with the UK. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:33]
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| A 2nd Referendum on 17:09 - Dec 3 with 1305 views | Humpty |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:08 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
"The only people not worried by no deal are those already with sufficient assets to pay privately for their health care and children's education. "
Wow, just wow.
You mean that leaving the EU means that the NHS and Public Schools will all close?
Where do you get such idiotic ideas from? |
And who said the NHS and public schools would all close? |  | | |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 17:12 - Dec 3 with 1302 views | Highjack |
| A 2nd Referendum on 14:35 - Dec 3 by Batterseajack |
Your patron saint of leaving, Michael Gove, thinks May's Brexit deal its a cracking deal. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 14:35]
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He’s the patron saint of clinging onto power.
He’s probably done a deal and been promised some sort of promotion |  |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 17:33 - Dec 3 with 1286 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 17:09 - Dec 3 by Humpty |
And who said the NHS and public schools would all close? |
Well if they don't close it means people can still get health care and still have their kids educated.
So absolutely no different to the way it is now, the ordinary people get NHS & Public Schools and the rich get whatever they are prepared to pay for.
Which part don't you understand? | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 17:35 - Dec 3 with 1283 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:30 - Dec 3 by Batterseajack |
We could have had the Canada deal, but there's the issue about a border on the island of Ireland. Both a border on the main land or in the sea are red lines so we've ended up with this fudge that you don't like.
Quick scroll down to the bottom of that link and it appears that that trade deal is largely based around the trade of textiles into the EU. The GSP+ arrangement is for countries like Armenia, Bolivia, Cape Verde, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Georgia, Mongolia, Paraguay, Pakistan and Peru. Not sure that arrangement would work with the UK. [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:33]
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What do you mean "we could have had the Canada deal"?
May turned it down because it wasn't what She and the Globalists wanted.
I dare say that many Brexiteers would have accepted that deal. | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:06 - Dec 3 with 1253 views | Humpty |
| A 2nd Referendum on 17:33 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well if they don't close it means people can still get health care and still have their kids educated.
So absolutely no different to the way it is now, the ordinary people get NHS & Public Schools and the rich get whatever they are prepared to pay for.
Which part don't you understand? |
Well I can't speak for Sherpa but I thought he meant the quality of public schooling and the NHS would suffer due to Brexit, probably due to less funds being available to them.
Only a gormless cretin would think he was saying that they'd close. Unsurprisingly that's what you went for. | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:18 - Dec 3 with 1237 views | sherpajacob |
| A 2nd Referendum on 16:14 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Which just proves that the EU can be flexible when it suits them.
Perhaps you should also research some of the deals that have been done with other countries outside the EU when it suits them, ie they want something enough.
For instance the one with promoter of Human rights Pakistan.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/pakistan/ [Post edited 3 Dec 2018 16:22]
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So you now agree that we can stay in the customs union/ single market retain freedom of movement and leave the EU. |  |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 19:23 - Dec 3 with 1231 views | Catullus |
Well having voted leave and stuck up for it, I still believe we need to leave for the best future for this country. However, the current situation is such a clusterfeck, a disster of massive proportions that only truly incompetent and/or entirely self serving politicians could have arranged that the decision is very clear to me, we need to retract A50 (assuming we can) and remain on the current terms.
Looking at the proposed deal, it's utterly ridiculous. A backstop arrangement that could mean we will never be allowed to leave with no say in the running of those who control us. Leaving under a no deal could be plunging the country into social unrest though maybe we need a bit of a rebellion to rid this country of our sh/te ruling classes!
So the pragmatic choice is to withdraw A50 and remain. At least with the rules we currently have we could trigger A50 again in the future.
Maybe after the EU has demanded more powers be transferred and the EU army is being used by the unelected leaders to quieten any dissenters people will change their minds. Or maybe that future won't happen and we'll all live happily ever after?
Either way, however it happens, we cannot accept this deal OR a no deal scenario that really could rip this country apart.
I'm not surprised May won't allow the full legal advice to be given out. She cannot admit that her deal is the worst of all worlds.
So, it's another referendum and I am fairly certain a sizeable number of leavers would agree with me that we need to choose remain. It's the most sensible choice we can make.
And NO, this is not a mickey take nor a sarcastic riposte. I honestly think we need to do it or the outcome will be disastrous.
I still think we need to cut the number of politicians and as I said before (somewhat sarcastically admittedly, but not now) would we be any worse off being run by the Eu than we are under these hopeless British politicians? | |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 19:33 - Dec 3 with 1213 views | Nogginthenog |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:23 - Dec 3 by Catullus |
Well having voted leave and stuck up for it, I still believe we need to leave for the best future for this country. However, the current situation is such a clusterfeck, a disster of massive proportions that only truly incompetent and/or entirely self serving politicians could have arranged that the decision is very clear to me, we need to retract A50 (assuming we can) and remain on the current terms.
Looking at the proposed deal, it's utterly ridiculous. A backstop arrangement that could mean we will never be allowed to leave with no say in the running of those who control us. Leaving under a no deal could be plunging the country into social unrest though maybe we need a bit of a rebellion to rid this country of our sh/te ruling classes!
So the pragmatic choice is to withdraw A50 and remain. At least with the rules we currently have we could trigger A50 again in the future.
Maybe after the EU has demanded more powers be transferred and the EU army is being used by the unelected leaders to quieten any dissenters people will change their minds. Or maybe that future won't happen and we'll all live happily ever after?
Either way, however it happens, we cannot accept this deal OR a no deal scenario that really could rip this country apart.
I'm not surprised May won't allow the full legal advice to be given out. She cannot admit that her deal is the worst of all worlds.
So, it's another referendum and I am fairly certain a sizeable number of leavers would agree with me that we need to choose remain. It's the most sensible choice we can make.
And NO, this is not a mickey take nor a sarcastic riposte. I honestly think we need to do it or the outcome will be disastrous.
I still think we need to cut the number of politicians and as I said before (somewhat sarcastically admittedly, but not now) would we be any worse off being run by the Eu than we are under these hopeless British politicians? |
Great post |  | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:36 - Dec 3 with 1207 views | swan65split |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:23 - Dec 3 by Catullus |
Well having voted leave and stuck up for it, I still believe we need to leave for the best future for this country. However, the current situation is such a clusterfeck, a disster of massive proportions that only truly incompetent and/or entirely self serving politicians could have arranged that the decision is very clear to me, we need to retract A50 (assuming we can) and remain on the current terms.
Looking at the proposed deal, it's utterly ridiculous. A backstop arrangement that could mean we will never be allowed to leave with no say in the running of those who control us. Leaving under a no deal could be plunging the country into social unrest though maybe we need a bit of a rebellion to rid this country of our sh/te ruling classes!
So the pragmatic choice is to withdraw A50 and remain. At least with the rules we currently have we could trigger A50 again in the future.
Maybe after the EU has demanded more powers be transferred and the EU army is being used by the unelected leaders to quieten any dissenters people will change their minds. Or maybe that future won't happen and we'll all live happily ever after?
Either way, however it happens, we cannot accept this deal OR a no deal scenario that really could rip this country apart.
I'm not surprised May won't allow the full legal advice to be given out. She cannot admit that her deal is the worst of all worlds.
So, it's another referendum and I am fairly certain a sizeable number of leavers would agree with me that we need to choose remain. It's the most sensible choice we can make.
And NO, this is not a mickey take nor a sarcastic riposte. I honestly think we need to do it or the outcome will be disastrous.
I still think we need to cut the number of politicians and as I said before (somewhat sarcastically admittedly, but not now) would we be any worse off being run by the Eu than we are under these hopeless British politicians? |
the whole scenario has been manufactured for staying, make no bones about it. Sad state in History of our Country. | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:42 - Dec 3 with 1199 views | Highjack |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:36 - Dec 3 by swan65split |
the whole scenario has been manufactured for staying, make no bones about it. Sad state in History of our Country. |
Yep. | |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 20:34 - Dec 3 with 1173 views | Gowerjack |
| A 2nd Referendum on 22:52 - Dec 2 by A_Fans_Dad |
How about the Government enacts the will of the people from the first Referendum, you know that democracy thing that all you leavers all deny.
There was absolutely no mention of any deal on ther referendum.
It sould have been leave and then negotiate. |
Fair play.
Proof were it needed that stupid people shoudnt be allowed to vote. |  |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 20:41 - Dec 3 with 1169 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:18 - Dec 3 by sherpajacob |
So you now agree that we can stay in the customs union/ single market retain freedom of movement and leave the EU. |
I never said we could.
And I never wanted to either.
Out is Out and a trade deal is a trade deal. | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 20:41 - Dec 3 with 1168 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 20:34 - Dec 3 by Gowerjack |
Fair play.
Proof were it needed that stupid people shoudnt be allowed to vote. |
You are correct, they should never have allowed you to. | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 20:45 - Dec 3 with 1163 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 19:23 - Dec 3 by Catullus |
Well having voted leave and stuck up for it, I still believe we need to leave for the best future for this country. However, the current situation is such a clusterfeck, a disster of massive proportions that only truly incompetent and/or entirely self serving politicians could have arranged that the decision is very clear to me, we need to retract A50 (assuming we can) and remain on the current terms.
Looking at the proposed deal, it's utterly ridiculous. A backstop arrangement that could mean we will never be allowed to leave with no say in the running of those who control us. Leaving under a no deal could be plunging the country into social unrest though maybe we need a bit of a rebellion to rid this country of our sh/te ruling classes!
So the pragmatic choice is to withdraw A50 and remain. At least with the rules we currently have we could trigger A50 again in the future.
Maybe after the EU has demanded more powers be transferred and the EU army is being used by the unelected leaders to quieten any dissenters people will change their minds. Or maybe that future won't happen and we'll all live happily ever after?
Either way, however it happens, we cannot accept this deal OR a no deal scenario that really could rip this country apart.
I'm not surprised May won't allow the full legal advice to be given out. She cannot admit that her deal is the worst of all worlds.
So, it's another referendum and I am fairly certain a sizeable number of leavers would agree with me that we need to choose remain. It's the most sensible choice we can make.
And NO, this is not a mickey take nor a sarcastic riposte. I honestly think we need to do it or the outcome will be disastrous.
I still think we need to cut the number of politicians and as I said before (somewhat sarcastically admittedly, but not now) would we be any worse off being run by the Eu than we are under these hopeless British politicians? |
Why will it be disastrous now but it wasn't when you voted?
Are you saying that you did not actually vote "Out of the EU"? | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 21:20 - Dec 3 with 1125 views | Catullus |
| A 2nd Referendum on 20:45 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Why will it be disastrous now but it wasn't when you voted?
Are you saying that you did not actually vote "Out of the EU"? |
I had the misplaced belief that our politicsl classes would enact the will of the people. What I didn't foresee was that a majority of politicians with the help of some remainers of various guises would so effectively undermine the process that an entirely rubbish deal would be the outcome, entirely rubbish of course being a massive understatement.
Make no mistake about it, this is a massive blow to democracy. Why bother voting when afterwards the will of the people is taken as a thing to be ignored, manipulated and then, when the deal is done claim it's what the people voted for?
I still believe the EU is undemocratic and Verhofstadts speech signals their future intentions. I hope the future I imagine doesn't come about because the thing that Europhiles love to claim (that the EU has kept the peace in Europe) could end up being the opposite of the truth. I forsee civil unrest as anti EU sentiment becomes more powerful. I foresee the Franco/German political alliance causing problems, especially when the EU army is formed. I foresee the NHS being privatised and I don't foresee the UK gaining anything like the benefits that Germany has grasped from all of this. We're more likely to see the end of a state pension than a massive rise in it and industry will continue to be sucked out of our country to be replaced with dead end jobs.
Ultimately I can only hope that all of that doesn't come to pass and the fears of many leavers prove entirely unfounded.
However faced with a change of mind where leaving is still a possibility or accepting a deal where we may never be allowed to leave, what choice do I have? No deal is bad for everyone and I'd suggest, not just Europe. It could destabilise the Western democracies and embolden the Russians and Chinese.
In simple terms we are between a rock and a hard place but at least the hard place has an escape pod. | |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 21:28 - Dec 3 with 1115 views | Highjack |
| A 2nd Referendum on 21:20 - Dec 3 by Catullus |
I had the misplaced belief that our politicsl classes would enact the will of the people. What I didn't foresee was that a majority of politicians with the help of some remainers of various guises would so effectively undermine the process that an entirely rubbish deal would be the outcome, entirely rubbish of course being a massive understatement.
Make no mistake about it, this is a massive blow to democracy. Why bother voting when afterwards the will of the people is taken as a thing to be ignored, manipulated and then, when the deal is done claim it's what the people voted for?
I still believe the EU is undemocratic and Verhofstadts speech signals their future intentions. I hope the future I imagine doesn't come about because the thing that Europhiles love to claim (that the EU has kept the peace in Europe) could end up being the opposite of the truth. I forsee civil unrest as anti EU sentiment becomes more powerful. I foresee the Franco/German political alliance causing problems, especially when the EU army is formed. I foresee the NHS being privatised and I don't foresee the UK gaining anything like the benefits that Germany has grasped from all of this. We're more likely to see the end of a state pension than a massive rise in it and industry will continue to be sucked out of our country to be replaced with dead end jobs.
Ultimately I can only hope that all of that doesn't come to pass and the fears of many leavers prove entirely unfounded.
However faced with a change of mind where leaving is still a possibility or accepting a deal where we may never be allowed to leave, what choice do I have? No deal is bad for everyone and I'd suggest, not just Europe. It could destabilise the Western democracies and embolden the Russians and Chinese.
In simple terms we are between a rock and a hard place but at least the hard place has an escape pod. |
This is exactly what they want you to think. Fair play to Mrs May if I were a remainer I’d be applauding her from the rooftops. She’s done a fantastic job to prepare the groundwork for the u-turn to beat all u-turns. | |
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| A 2nd Referendum on 21:29 - Dec 3 with 1110 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| A 2nd Referendum on 21:20 - Dec 3 by Catullus |
I had the misplaced belief that our politicsl classes would enact the will of the people. What I didn't foresee was that a majority of politicians with the help of some remainers of various guises would so effectively undermine the process that an entirely rubbish deal would be the outcome, entirely rubbish of course being a massive understatement.
Make no mistake about it, this is a massive blow to democracy. Why bother voting when afterwards the will of the people is taken as a thing to be ignored, manipulated and then, when the deal is done claim it's what the people voted for?
I still believe the EU is undemocratic and Verhofstadts speech signals their future intentions. I hope the future I imagine doesn't come about because the thing that Europhiles love to claim (that the EU has kept the peace in Europe) could end up being the opposite of the truth. I forsee civil unrest as anti EU sentiment becomes more powerful. I foresee the Franco/German political alliance causing problems, especially when the EU army is formed. I foresee the NHS being privatised and I don't foresee the UK gaining anything like the benefits that Germany has grasped from all of this. We're more likely to see the end of a state pension than a massive rise in it and industry will continue to be sucked out of our country to be replaced with dead end jobs.
Ultimately I can only hope that all of that doesn't come to pass and the fears of many leavers prove entirely unfounded.
However faced with a change of mind where leaving is still a possibility or accepting a deal where we may never be allowed to leave, what choice do I have? No deal is bad for everyone and I'd suggest, not just Europe. It could destabilise the Western democracies and embolden the Russians and Chinese.
In simple terms we are between a rock and a hard place but at least the hard place has an escape pod. |
Well, I new I was voting for Out with no immediate deal, I assume by what you are saying you didn't? | | | |
| A 2nd Referendum on 21:48 - Dec 3 with 1101 views | Catullus |
| A 2nd Referendum on 21:29 - Dec 3 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well, I new I was voting for Out with no immediate deal, I assume by what you are saying you didn't? |
Oh I did. What I didn't expect was to be presented with a deal that contained a clause that could tie us to the EU forever unless we roll over and give them everything.
France will veto us leaving unless we hand over fishing rights, Spain will veto unless we concede Gibraltar and I can't even imagine what other demands there will be.
This isn't a U turn, it's a sell out, our own government has sold us out. May says this is the best deal when in reality it's nothing but a surrender. Better to wait and see than give up our right to decide for ourselves when we can leave.
One day all these remainers will see it for themselves. The EU is busy empire building, they are creating a desert and calling it peace but one day there will be a sandstorm. | |
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