| Corona Virus 22:39 - Mar 7 with 437324 views | SgorioFruit |
Sorry for new thread,
But how bad do you lot reckon it’s going to get here in the UK?
I just been watching the news. Looking nasty in Italy. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 17:16 - Apr 4 with 1517 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 14:41 - Apr 4 by chad |
But given the experts disagree which ones are you going to leave it to? The ones with the best connections and most political muscle, but possibly anchored to their own, out of date, tunnel vision, or the ones with the best research and comparative logic. Of course many combinations in between.
Here’s an expert on expertise :)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/tracking-wonder/201906/the-paradox-exper
Akin to recently discussed issue of SOME of the brightest having little common sense, and of course the human condition of pinpoint focusing on what you believe to be correct. That focus is vital to develop but so is a wide angle lens.
Who should be more expert on health matters than, well, WHO.....
On January 10, the official Twitter account of the World Health Organization declared that ‘WHO does not recommend any specific health measures for travelers to and from Wuhan, #China.’ The tweet went on to say that ‘It is generally considered that entry screening offers little benefit, while requiring considerable resources.’ A follow-up tweet described how ‘WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on #China based on the information currently available.’
What we’ve learned since is that China was by then already engaged in a massive cover-up of the release and spread of the virus. It imprisoned doctors (one of whom would later die from contracting COVID-19) who attempted to warn the World Health Organization and the world.
On January 14, the same Twitter account blasted out that ‘Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.’ Thus adding legitimacy to this comment and its implications.
WHO still only recommends a social distance of 1 metre whilst accepting this is primarily a droplet spread infection and it being common proven knowledge that a cough can spread 6 metres and a sneeze 8 metres.
WHO on 28th March tweeted ....FACT: ‪#COVID19‬ is NOT airborne
This despite its own clear direction on protection against aerosols to be taken for medical procedures that create aerosols for e.g. coughing, and evidence that aerosolised virus remained viable throughout the entirety of a 3 hour experiment. |
I've got no doubt the Chinese covered this disease up, and clearly there has been huge developments in understanding what the virus does. Those probably combine to deliver what you say about the early stages of the outbreak.
I don't know much about the WHO, but their suggested social distance of 1 metre is ridiculous.
I probably am biased but I genuinely think we have the best scientific community in the world the vast majority aren't set in their ways or tied to political ideologies. I'd include Prof Witty and Vallance in that, they seem to be dealing with this crisis in a conscientious, neutral and professional way. We seem to be heading in the right direction.
I just suggest that we leave suggesting potential treatments, especially when they are highly questionable, to the experts rather than broadcast that we are winning the war on this virus when we clearly aren't. That is dangerous. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:40 - Apr 4 with 1475 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 16:53 - Apr 4 by chad |
Thank you, but in the interests of full disclosure, the first half of the bit on WHO is taken from a Spectator article. I did however check the validity of the part I quoted through other sources.
https://spectator.us/abolish-world-health-organization/
Abolish the World Health Organization
The WHO has become another pointless organization pandering to the world’s worst actors
Stephen L. Miller |
The WHO is part of the UN, say no more. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:50 - Apr 4 with 1447 views | majorraglan |
| Corona Virus on 15:25 - Apr 4 by Thrasher6 |
From the National Statistcs Office.. Week 12...is the latest stats available....(For the hystericals)
The provisional number of deaths registered in England & Wales in tghe week ending 20th March 2020 (week 12) was 10,645: this represents a decrease of 374 deaths registered compared with the previous week
​The average number of deaths for the corresponding week over the previous five years was 10,645: this means that the overall number of deaths in week 12 of 2020 was slightly higher than previous years (71 deaths higher)
Of the deaths registered in week 12 103 mentioned novel coronavirus which is 1.0% osf all deaths [Post edited 4 Apr 2020 15:42]
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You have made a number of posts on this thread which to me suggest you think the current situation isn’t that serious and that some of the posters who have a slightly different take on events are hysterical.
There are differences between the way the NHS and ONS record statistics and the ONS, however it’s clear from the information being provided to us that deaths linked to Covid 19 are increasing.
If it wasn’t that serious, do you think the government would have put us all in “lockdown” risking an economic crash probably bigger than anything since 1929, spent hundreds of millions on “field hospitals” in London, the Midlands, Wales has 1 at the Principality Stadium with more in Swansea, Llanelli and Carmarthen (that I know of) the government have also purchased a considerable number of private healthcare beds and are also buying huge numbers of ventilators and asking for hundreds of thousands of volunteers to assist. Hospitals are converting wards to be able to cope with the upsurge in demand and routine treatments are being cancelled. Pretty sure the Consultant from the Royal Gwent said they had 3 times as many people on ventilators as they would normally do.
The threat that Covid presents is very real, sadly thousands and thousands of people will die and and many families are going to lose loved ones. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:56 - Apr 4 with 1428 views | theloneranger |
Morriston hospital are 100 critical care nurses short of what they need!!
This is from Mark Madams ... Nurse Director @ Morriston Hospital. [Post edited 4 Apr 2020 17:58]
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| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Corona Virus on 18:00 - Apr 4 with 1419 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Corona Virus on 17:50 - Apr 4 by majorraglan |
You have made a number of posts on this thread which to me suggest you think the current situation isn’t that serious and that some of the posters who have a slightly different take on events are hysterical.
There are differences between the way the NHS and ONS record statistics and the ONS, however it’s clear from the information being provided to us that deaths linked to Covid 19 are increasing.
If it wasn’t that serious, do you think the government would have put us all in “lockdown” risking an economic crash probably bigger than anything since 1929, spent hundreds of millions on “field hospitals” in London, the Midlands, Wales has 1 at the Principality Stadium with more in Swansea, Llanelli and Carmarthen (that I know of) the government have also purchased a considerable number of private healthcare beds and are also buying huge numbers of ventilators and asking for hundreds of thousands of volunteers to assist. Hospitals are converting wards to be able to cope with the upsurge in demand and routine treatments are being cancelled. Pretty sure the Consultant from the Royal Gwent said they had 3 times as many people on ventilators as they would normally do.
The threat that Covid presents is very real, sadly thousands and thousands of people will die and and many families are going to lose loved ones. |
Yes, the argument that this will or will not affect overall mortality over a long period misses the point, as you say the issue is the extraordinary number of people needing hospital care across the World and the fact that many will die before their time.
Some people STILL don't get it. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 18:31 - Apr 4 with 1347 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 18:00 - Apr 4 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Yes, the argument that this will or will not affect overall mortality over a long period misses the point, as you say the issue is the extraordinary number of people needing hospital care across the World and the fact that many will die before their time.
Some people STILL don't get it. |
Seven health workers have died, many under the age of 60 with no underlying health issues have died and about 20% of confirmed cases need hospital treatment.
And people under play how serious this is. Amazing. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 18:45 - Apr 4 with 1323 views | builthjack |
| Corona Virus on 17:56 - Apr 4 by theloneranger |
Morriston hospital are 100 critical care nurses short of what they need!!
This is from Mark Madams ... Nurse Director @ Morriston Hospital. [Post edited 4 Apr 2020 17:58]
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The NHS has been run into the ground these last 7 or 8 years. People forgot that. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Corona Virus on 18:49 - Apr 4 with 1319 views | jasper_T |
| Corona Virus on 18:45 - Apr 4 by builthjack |
The NHS has been run into the ground these last 7 or 8 years. People forgot that. |
But at least people have gone out to clap for them a couple of times.
Back to voting for more cutbacks before long. | | | |
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| Corona Virus on 18:56 - Apr 4 with 1305 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 17:56 - Apr 4 by theloneranger |
Morriston hospital are 100 critical care nurses short of what they need!!
This is from Mark Madams ... Nurse Director @ Morriston Hospital. [Post edited 4 Apr 2020 17:58]
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Three of my friends one surgeon, one anaesthetist and a paramedic reckon that morriston is the most understaffed hospital they've ever worked at. Worrying. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 18:58 - Apr 4 with 1297 views | exiledclaseboy |
Apparently today’s daily death toll was “positive” as they were expecting an 800 plus figure today. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 19:07 - Apr 4 with 1285 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Corona Virus on 18:58 - Apr 4 by exiledclaseboy |
Apparently today’s daily death toll was “positive” as they were expecting an 800 plus figure today. |
I saw that on the BBC, journalists are clueless, I'm getting sick of their stupidity 50 per cent of their questions each day at the daily briefing have already been answered. | |
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| Corona Virus on 19:16 - Apr 4 with 1274 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 18:58 - Apr 4 by exiledclaseboy |
Apparently today’s daily death toll was “positive” as they were expecting an 800 plus figure today. |
There's a couple of graphs on the BBC website that show where we are compared to the predicted trend for cases and deaths. We are below both. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 19:33 - Apr 4 with 1253 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Corona Virus on 19:16 - Apr 4 by Scotia |
There's a couple of graphs on the BBC website that show where we are compared to the predicted trend for cases and deaths. We are below both. |
The media need to be careful, using a small number of data points is not good practice in descriptive statistics, as a rule of thumb at least 10 data points are needed to identify a statistically significant shift, the last three of four days could be all natural variation.
I'm getting sick of idiots like Peston behaving like they know best, Peston wrote a big article about an abundant supply of testing reagents based on one conversation with s chemical company, three hours later he had to pull the article.
The dull c nuts at the BBC have now put those potentially misleading graphs on their front page. Hopefully someone in Government will sort them out. [Post edited 4 Apr 2020 19:53]
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| Corona Virus on 19:40 - Apr 4 with 1243 views | Thrasher6 |
| Corona Virus on 17:50 - Apr 4 by majorraglan |
You have made a number of posts on this thread which to me suggest you think the current situation isn’t that serious and that some of the posters who have a slightly different take on events are hysterical.
There are differences between the way the NHS and ONS record statistics and the ONS, however it’s clear from the information being provided to us that deaths linked to Covid 19 are increasing.
If it wasn’t that serious, do you think the government would have put us all in “lockdown” risking an economic crash probably bigger than anything since 1929, spent hundreds of millions on “field hospitals” in London, the Midlands, Wales has 1 at the Principality Stadium with more in Swansea, Llanelli and Carmarthen (that I know of) the government have also purchased a considerable number of private healthcare beds and are also buying huge numbers of ventilators and asking for hundreds of thousands of volunteers to assist. Hospitals are converting wards to be able to cope with the upsurge in demand and routine treatments are being cancelled. Pretty sure the Consultant from the Royal Gwent said they had 3 times as many people on ventilators as they would normally do.
The threat that Covid presents is very real, sadly thousands and thousands of people will die and and many families are going to lose loved ones. |
Answer this question. Covid 19 deaths are 1% of the total deaths in that National Statistic. 99% of deaths are not related. Maybe 10% of those are influenza related....(thats why we have free flu jabs)
So if Sky News, BBC etc put out the daily figures for people dying of flu related illnesses..the figures would be far far more alarming....and would send people into a panic. They never have. But on Covid19 they have....in spades...in an hysterical frenzy...and it is completely over the top.
The world's population is 7.7 billion. Covid cases hit one million....not deaths just those that have had it. That is 1 in 7,700. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 19:54 - Apr 4 with 1210 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 19:40 - Apr 4 by Thrasher6 |
Answer this question. Covid 19 deaths are 1% of the total deaths in that National Statistic. 99% of deaths are not related. Maybe 10% of those are influenza related....(thats why we have free flu jabs)
So if Sky News, BBC etc put out the daily figures for people dying of flu related illnesses..the figures would be far far more alarming....and would send people into a panic. They never have. But on Covid19 they have....in spades...in an hysterical frenzy...and it is completely over the top.
The world's population is 7.7 billion. Covid cases hit one million....not deaths just those that have had it. That is 1 in 7,700. |
The flu period has finished, so maybe none are the flu.
Did you even bother to read my comment.
The ONI has only captured a few days of COVID19 deaths, ir 177 deaths, since then it has increased by 4200.
The world statistics are for 2 months of increasing rates compared to 12 months of the flu. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 20:15 - Apr 4 with 1178 views | monmouth |
| Corona Virus on 18:45 - Apr 4 by builthjack |
The NHS has been run into the ground these last 7 or 8 years. People forgot that. |
Plenty of money for layers of managers to hush things up and threaten people with all sorts if they try and tell the truth from what I've heard.
Protect OUR NHS? Frauds and hypocrites. They've (politicians) been dismantling it for years, probably 40, and this last ten worse than anything. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 20:38 - Apr 4 with 1150 views | Catullus |
| Corona Virus on 18:45 - Apr 4 by builthjack |
The NHS has been run into the ground these last 7 or 8 years. People forgot that. |
Oh come on, it's been going on longer than 7/8 years. People think Blair invested heavily but his PFI schemes are costing the NHS much more than what he put in.
That's not to forget what the Tories have done but they don't carry 100% of the guilt. | |
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| Corona Virus on 21:17 - Apr 4 with 1116 views | Dr_Winston |
Unless it's unique amongst Government departments, the level of waste and unnecessary expenditure in the NHS must be off the scale considering the £150bn+ annual budget. The German system has received plaudits during the current situation, but there's a level of private insurance involvement there that would cause outrage here.
Serious, non political, non hysterical discussions must take place after this about how the NHS is funded, what services it provides and perhaps most importantly where it sources its required supplies from. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Corona Virus on 21:54 - Apr 4 with 1091 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Corona Virus on 21:17 - Apr 4 by Dr_Winston |
Unless it's unique amongst Government departments, the level of waste and unnecessary expenditure in the NHS must be off the scale considering the £150bn+ annual budget. The German system has received plaudits during the current situation, but there's a level of private insurance involvement there that would cause outrage here.
Serious, non political, non hysterical discussions must take place after this about how the NHS is funded, what services it provides and perhaps most importantly where it sources its required supplies from. |
Yes time for an objective, well researched and informed review. As a n example the current level of avoidable cardio vascular disease in the UK is taking up a huge amount of NHS resource, I read a paper that said an estimated 50 percent of demand in the US is avoidable cardio vascular illness's and we are at the same level of illness.
I've worked with some NHS commissioners and my experience is that they have been some of the most difficult meetings to get really focussed, having worked with 40+ private sector organisations and in many central government and local government organisations. | |
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| Corona Virus on 21:56 - Apr 4 with 1089 views | monmouth |
| Corona Virus on 21:17 - Apr 4 by Dr_Winston |
Unless it's unique amongst Government departments, the level of waste and unnecessary expenditure in the NHS must be off the scale considering the £150bn+ annual budget. The German system has received plaudits during the current situation, but there's a level of private insurance involvement there that would cause outrage here.
Serious, non political, non hysterical discussions must take place after this about how the NHS is funded, what services it provides and perhaps most importantly where it sources its required supplies from. |
As a former ‘value for money’ executive in the NHS, I couldn’t agree more, and that was in the 1980s. I was young, naive and super enthusiastic. It would need some serious backing to do. I got none. The resistance to doing anything serious that might offend any self important arsehole was phenomenal. I gave up and left in disgust at the priorities. | |
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| Corona Virus on 21:57 - Apr 4 with 1084 views | Catullus |
| Corona Virus on 19:40 - Apr 4 by Thrasher6 |
Answer this question. Covid 19 deaths are 1% of the total deaths in that National Statistic. 99% of deaths are not related. Maybe 10% of those are influenza related....(thats why we have free flu jabs)
So if Sky News, BBC etc put out the daily figures for people dying of flu related illnesses..the figures would be far far more alarming....and would send people into a panic. They never have. But on Covid19 they have....in spades...in an hysterical frenzy...and it is completely over the top.
The world's population is 7.7 billion. Covid cases hit one million....not deaths just those that have had it. That is 1 in 7,700. |
It's not just about the deaths though, you keep missing or ignoring that. There are thousands of extra people bveing hospitalised and they need equipment we didn't have. Then there's the extra staff needed.
It's not just about the death stats. | |
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| Corona Virus on 21:58 - Apr 4 with 1081 views | Dr_Winston |
| Corona Virus on 21:54 - Apr 4 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Yes time for an objective, well researched and informed review. As a n example the current level of avoidable cardio vascular disease in the UK is taking up a huge amount of NHS resource, I read a paper that said an estimated 50 percent of demand in the US is avoidable cardio vascular illness's and we are at the same level of illness.
I've worked with some NHS commissioners and my experience is that they have been some of the most difficult meetings to get really focussed, having worked with 40+ private sector organisations and in many central government and local government organisations. |
As long as the NHS remains free at the point of service to provide critical and ongoing healthcare nothing else should remain off the table.
Nobody wants to go down the American road, but there has to be better ways of doing things. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Corona Virus on 22:03 - Apr 4 with 1062 views | monmouth |
| Corona Virus on 21:58 - Apr 4 by Dr_Winston |
As long as the NHS remains free at the point of service to provide critical and ongoing healthcare nothing else should remain off the table.
Nobody wants to go down the American road, but there has to be better ways of doing things. |
There are many countries that we can Surely usefully learn from, but nobody wants to listen. The contacts I still have say that if you try and raise it people put their fingers in their ears and shout la la la la la.
The ‘great’ British public need to be told some hard realities, but no politician dares, and so the great pretence goes on. I am a fierce supporter of the NHS and I have some personal reasons to love it, which I do, but this facade cannot be maintained. | |
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| Corona Virus on 22:04 - Apr 4 with 1061 views | lifelong |
| Corona Virus on 19:40 - Apr 4 by Thrasher6 |
Answer this question. Covid 19 deaths are 1% of the total deaths in that National Statistic. 99% of deaths are not related. Maybe 10% of those are influenza related....(thats why we have free flu jabs)
So if Sky News, BBC etc put out the daily figures for people dying of flu related illnesses..the figures would be far far more alarming....and would send people into a panic. They never have. But on Covid19 they have....in spades...in an hysterical frenzy...and it is completely over the top.
The world's population is 7.7 billion. Covid cases hit one million....not deaths just those that have had it. That is 1 in 7,700. |
Answer this question.
If this virus is not dangerous how has it killed dozens of health care workers, many of them doctors, who are treating patients with the virus? |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 22:04 - Apr 4 with 1519 views | Dr_Winston |
| Corona Virus on 21:56 - Apr 4 by monmouth |
As a former ‘value for money’ executive in the NHS, I couldn’t agree more, and that was in the 1980s. I was young, naive and super enthusiastic. It would need some serious backing to do. I got none. The resistance to doing anything serious that might offend any self important arsehole was phenomenal. I gave up and left in disgust at the priorities. |
The difficulty is in getting that backing. The political and cultural resistance in making any kind of serious changes to the NHS and the services it provides must be immense.
For example, I'd charge £10 for a GP's appointment (means tested) and £100 for missing one. Bank details to be provided at the point of booking. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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