| What actually makes a club big ? 16:38 - Jan 11 with 2020 views | NotLoyal |
Like Cardiff as an example ? |  |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:15 - Jan 11 with 736 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 17:28 - Jan 11 by angryjack |
Chelsea are nowhere near a big club only started winning things since Roman abramavic same man city average clubs Chelsea had only 8000 fans for a premier league game against Swindon in 1994 [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 17:32]
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Well technically it was Matthew Harding when they started winning a few pots, but anyway, I’d never think of Chelsea as a big club. Pick anyone of Fulham, QPR and Chelsea for West London’s biggest club at some point.
A big club has a massive fanbase home and away and who had history history of winning things occasionally, that’s why the likes of Newcastle and Sunderland, maybe even Forest, can be considered big clubs, whereas the likes of us and Cardiff, Bournemouth, Ipswich are not. There’s a fair chance that we’re actually bigger than Cardiff based on on the pitch success, a great away following and general perception in the football world as a club with an identity, but the only time we’re considered a big club is when we’re in the bottom two divisions. |  |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:21 - Jan 11 with 726 views | pencoedjack |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 17:44 - Jan 11 by 34dfgdf54 |
This is the way I see it, it’s a pretty basic way of seeing it but there you go.
What would happen if a club ever fell on hard times, Leeds probably being the best example of this, what would happen. Leeds still had supporters clubs all over the UK filling out away ends up and down the country. Everton, who Cardiff fans compare themselves too would do exactly the same, as would the obvious ones United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham.
The likes of Sunderland and Nottingham Forest are all bigger than Cardiff aswell. |
Man City we’re having 25000 plus in the 3rd tier not sure why people don’t think they are not a big club. |  | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:27 - Jan 11 with 714 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:21 - Jan 11 by pencoedjack |
Man City we’re having 25000 plus in the 3rd tier not sure why people don’t think they are not a big club. |
Bigger than Manure domestically, every Manc I know supports Citeh, but Utd judged the intervention of the Premier a league and Sky perfectly, embraced the plastics, and went international in the 90’s. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:33 - Jan 11 with 710 views | pencoedjack |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:27 - Jan 11 by ItchySphincter |
Bigger than Manure domestically, every Manc I know supports Citeh, but Utd judged the intervention of the Premier a league and Sky perfectly, embraced the plastics, and went international in the 90’s. |
Agree no one can doubt Utd are a big club I dislike them along with Liverpool ( for SW plastic fans mainly) but Man City are also a big club as are Leeds. | | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 22:12 - Jan 11 with 656 views | angryjack |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:33 - Jan 11 by pencoedjack |
Agree no one can doubt Utd are a big club I dislike them along with Liverpool ( for SW plastic fans mainly) but Man City are also a big club as are Leeds. |
Man city are an average size club hardly ever fill the etihad |  | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 00:43 - Jan 12 with 615 views | Groo |
I would say a number of indicators.
Only 6 teams have had more than 90 seasons in the top flight.
1. Everton - 118 Seasons
2. Aston Villa - 107 Seasons
3. Liverpool - 106 Seasons
4. Arsenal - 104 Seasons (holds the record for consecutive)
5. Manchester United - 96 Seasons
6. Manchester City - 92 Seasons
a further 5 teams with more than 80
7. Newcastle - 89 Seasons
8. Tottenham - 86 Seasons
9. Chelsea - 86 Seasons
10. Sunderland - 86 Seasons
11. West Brom - 82 Seasons
Looking at the Welsh big 2
40. Cardiff - 17 Seasons
48. Swansea - 9 Seasons
League Champions
1. Manchester United - 20
2. Liverpool - 19
3. Arsenal - 13
4. Everton - 9
5. Aston Villa - 7
6. Machester City - 6
7. Sunderland - 6
8. Chelsea - 6
9. Newcastle - 4
10. Sheff Wed - 4
So how the hell do they see themselves at the same level as Everton, is anyones guess. |  |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:13 - Jan 12 with 606 views | Treforys_Jack |
Its got to be fanbase, no other criteria is relevant. |  | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:43 - Jan 12 with 599 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:13 - Jan 12 by Treforys_Jack |
Its got to be fanbase, no other criteria is relevant. |
It’s not something you can measure though.
Football is a global game these days, not a local one. For example we have 1.2m Twitter followers, Cardiff have 400k. That’s largely made up of a global audience one would have to assume.
Also if you go back 40 years to the present day, there is 1k difference in average attendance between us and Cardiff, that includes 5 years where we were at maximum capacity and could have filled a 30k seater for many games.
How big a club is, is about relevance. I don’t buy that someone is a big club because they won a trophy in the 1920’s when next to nobody was alive today to remember.
It used to be attendance because that was a clubs main income, the more fans it had the more money it had to buy players and pay higher wages meaning they likely had more success. So success was directly linked to attendance and fanbase. That’s not the case anymore, it’s a fraction of the clubs income.
Size for me comes down overwhelmingly to global exposure/interest and recent success. The things that draw potential players to us.
Let’s say we are after a 20 year old player who got into football when he was 8. For the majority of his life he would have seen us in the top flight, hammering it out with the big boys, winning a major trophy, playing in Europe and finishing multiple times in the top half of the Premier League.
To this player we would be a bigger and more attractive club than someone like Cardiff who have had 2 stints in the PL and got relegated each time. They aren’t going to care they won a cup in the 20’s or get on average 1000 more through the gate than us over the last 40 years.
We are the biggest club in Wales of which I have no doubt and they have a long way to go to catch us up. To achieve what we have done is almost unheard of these days for clubs with such little historical success with minimal investment. |  |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 04:30 - Jan 12 with 584 views | Groo |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:13 - Jan 12 by Treforys_Jack |
Its got to be fanbase, no other criteria is relevant. |
Is the absolute incorrect answer (sort of)
The fan base is built over continuous years of success or maintaining a high level. Only the teams that achieve this, get that fan base. | |
| Groo does what Groo does best |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 07:48 - Jan 12 with 540 views | 1983 |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 19:15 - Jan 11 by ItchySphincter |
Well technically it was Matthew Harding when they started winning a few pots, but anyway, I’d never think of Chelsea as a big club. Pick anyone of Fulham, QPR and Chelsea for West London’s biggest club at some point.
A big club has a massive fanbase home and away and who had history history of winning things occasionally, that’s why the likes of Newcastle and Sunderland, maybe even Forest, can be considered big clubs, whereas the likes of us and Cardiff, Bournemouth, Ipswich are not. There’s a fair chance that we’re actually bigger than Cardiff based on on the pitch success, a great away following and general perception in the football world as a club with an identity, but the only time we’re considered a big club is when we’re in the bottom two divisions. |
The whole big club thing is depended on how old you are now
Forest big club?
No chance they're European adventures you have to go back over 40 years ago and any significant impact in this country you have to back over 30 years ago and the same kind of thing for Newcastle you could put 11 donkeys on the pitch and the Geordies would still go it's a religion for them same goes for Sunderland.
Big clubs are the obvious that spring to mind
Man Utd / City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Spurs
Arsenal
then everyone else depending on age and where you live..etc |  |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 08:05 - Jan 12 with 531 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:43 - Jan 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not something you can measure though.
Football is a global game these days, not a local one. For example we have 1.2m Twitter followers, Cardiff have 400k. That’s largely made up of a global audience one would have to assume.
Also if you go back 40 years to the present day, there is 1k difference in average attendance between us and Cardiff, that includes 5 years where we were at maximum capacity and could have filled a 30k seater for many games.
How big a club is, is about relevance. I don’t buy that someone is a big club because they won a trophy in the 1920’s when next to nobody was alive today to remember.
It used to be attendance because that was a clubs main income, the more fans it had the more money it had to buy players and pay higher wages meaning they likely had more success. So success was directly linked to attendance and fanbase. That’s not the case anymore, it’s a fraction of the clubs income.
Size for me comes down overwhelmingly to global exposure/interest and recent success. The things that draw potential players to us.
Let’s say we are after a 20 year old player who got into football when he was 8. For the majority of his life he would have seen us in the top flight, hammering it out with the big boys, winning a major trophy, playing in Europe and finishing multiple times in the top half of the Premier League.
To this player we would be a bigger and more attractive club than someone like Cardiff who have had 2 stints in the PL and got relegated each time. They aren’t going to care they won a cup in the 20’s or get on average 1000 more through the gate than us over the last 40 years.
We are the biggest club in Wales of which I have no doubt and they have a long way to go to catch us up. To achieve what we have done is almost unheard of these days for clubs with such little historical success with minimal investment. |
Almost exactly what I would have posted if I could have been arsed. Good post. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 08:10 - Jan 12 with 529 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 07:48 - Jan 12 by 1983 |
The whole big club thing is depended on how old you are now
Forest big club?
No chance they're European adventures you have to go back over 40 years ago and any significant impact in this country you have to back over 30 years ago and the same kind of thing for Newcastle you could put 11 donkeys on the pitch and the Geordies would still go it's a religion for them same goes for Sunderland.
Big clubs are the obvious that spring to mind
Man Utd / City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Spurs
Arsenal
then everyone else depending on age and where you live..etc |
I agree on the whole, and on Forest. I only included them because some people see trophies = big. Forest are not really a big club. Newcastle and. Sunderland are big based on fanbase + a few trophies. I suppose big = fanbase + trophies + time spent in top league, which is what I was getting at in the first place, although big clubs that drop down the leagues are still big clubs. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 08:28 - Jan 12 with 519 views | 1983 |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 08:10 - Jan 12 by ItchySphincter |
I agree on the whole, and on Forest. I only included them because some people see trophies = big. Forest are not really a big club. Newcastle and. Sunderland are big based on fanbase + a few trophies. I suppose big = fanbase + trophies + time spent in top league, which is what I was getting at in the first place, although big clubs that drop down the leagues are still big clubs. |
You talked yourself into agreeing and then talked you out of agreeing.lol but I see what you mean. Bury won the FA cup twice so where would you have put them? | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 09:21 - Jan 12 with 490 views | angryjack |
It goes on worldwide support and fan base and the brand I think with some success obviously Preston Huddersfield Bolton have lots of honours but not big clubs | | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 09:23 - Jan 12 with 484 views | Whiterockin |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 09:21 - Jan 12 by angryjack |
It goes on worldwide support and fan base and the brand I think with some success obviously Preston Huddersfield Bolton have lots of honours but not big clubs |
Average worldwide viewing figures for live matches would be a good guide. |  | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 09:41 - Jan 12 with 468 views | 1983 |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 09:23 - Jan 12 by Whiterockin |
Average worldwide viewing figures for live matches would be a good guide. |
My point exactly about Forest and the likes really worldwide who are they? Nobodies
I went to Thailand in our days of Michu,Laudrup ..etc and the taxi driver in that moment in time knew the same possibly more than me about The Swans but if I met him now he wouldn't have a clue who our manager was or who our best player was. The whole football world brand keeps changing a big club are the ones who are doing it now, history means nothing for modern day football unfortunately. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 10:03 - Jan 12 with 449 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 08:28 - Jan 12 by 1983 |
You talked yourself into agreeing and then talked you out of agreeing.lol but I see what you mean. Bury won the FA cup twice so where would you have put them? |
I do agree, it it’s nuanced, a theory rather than a rule.
Bury is not a big club by the formula pots + fanbase + time in top league = size. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 10:21 - Jan 12 with 433 views | Dr_Winston |
So, in conclusion, whichever criteria you choose to define a big club Cardiff meet almost none of them, apart from a trophy won back when we had an Empire, a trophy they've won 50% fewer times than Bury. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 10:41 - Jan 12 with 424 views | onehunglow |
Suppose these exchanges show how subjective "big" club are.
It's a futile debate really | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 10:52 - Jan 12 with 419 views | ItchySphincter |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 10:21 - Jan 12 by Dr_Winston |
So, in conclusion, whichever criteria you choose to define a big club Cardiff meet almost none of them, apart from a trophy won back when we had an Empire, a trophy they've won 50% fewer times than Bury. |
Well yeah, everyone knows that Cardiff is a small club. It sure what’s wrong with their lot, must be something in the water. | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 11:04 - Jan 12 with 407 views | pikeypaul |
Biggest club?
Most league wins ? No, competition may be sub standard
Cup wins ? No one off matches ,easier draws,etc
Biggest Capacity ground ? No for so many reasons
Wealthiest ? No
An argument can be put against everything
But collectively and it's only my humble opinion
Real Madrid ticks most boxes and have done consistently for the last 60 years,no other club comes close to them in that |  |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 11:46 - Jan 12 with 391 views | Whiterockin |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 11:04 - Jan 12 by pikeypaul |
Biggest club?
Most league wins ? No, competition may be sub standard
Cup wins ? No one off matches ,easier draws,etc
Biggest Capacity ground ? No for so many reasons
Wealthiest ? No
An argument can be put against everything
But collectively and it's only my humble opinion
Real Madrid ticks most boxes and have done consistently for the last 60 years,no other club comes close to them in that |
"Real Madrid ticks most boxes and have done consistently for the last 60 years,no other club comes close to them in that"
I would say Bayern and Milan come close. | | | |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 11:50 - Jan 12 with 384 views | vetchonian |
But which would we rather be
Bigger or Better? | |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 12:19 - Jan 12 with 350 views | Lohengrin |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 01:13 - Jan 12 by Treforys_Jack |
Its got to be fanbase, no other criteria is relevant. |
Sustained success builds the fan base on solid foundations. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| What actually makes a club big ? on 12:22 - Jan 12 with 349 views | Lohengrin |
| What actually makes a club big ? on 17:49 - Jan 11 by angryjack |
Chelsea only had 8000 for a premier league game in 1994..Everton bigger than man city also villa bigger than man city |
In ‘94 wouldn’t they have been in the middle of redeveloping Stamford Bridge?
Of course Chelsea are a ‘big’ club. Does anybody on here really view them as anything else? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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