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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:02 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
They were.
Piroe was linked to a whole host of big European clubs, but nobody knew for sure how he would take to English football. We took the risk because Cooper was confident he would take to English football, and he was correct.
It’s a bit like saying why were we the only club in for Leon Britton. His talent was obvious. That’s football.
Again, if Piroe was scoring goals as a direct benefit of Martin’s system suiting him then sure happy to give credit. But Piroes goals largely came out of breaking away from that system, often looking frustrated with it and creating his own individual magic.
Do you think Piroe would suddenly become a 5 goal a season striker once Martin moves on, or do you think it’s far more likely he will continue to be a 15+ goal striker every season?
I’m not asking why he didn’t go to Juventus or Bayern, I’m asking why the smaller PL clubs or richer Championship clubs weren’t in for him at that price.
Seems a strange move to come to a club who’s manager had made it abundantly clear he wanted to leave. If he was that highly rated, he’d have had his pick.
No, I don’t think he’d become a mediocre striker, just as neither I, probably you and by the looks of it PSV and a host of better placed clubs than us didn’t think he’d be anywhere near as good as he was. Unless you believe our recruitment team or ‘Cooper’ as you call them, saw massive potential in a player who hadn’t shown it in Holland, that everyone else, including his club at the time, missed.
Leon Britton was a winger/attacking midfielder when he came on loan and when he signed permanently. He became the player he made his name as here. Filled in for Bodde one game and never left the role if i remember correctly. I doubt he’d have been as successful without that quirk of fate. I can understand clubs not seeing that when his main attribute as a youngster was taking players on.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:43 - Jul 21 with 680 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:51 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
It is 100% the truth, whether you tend to think it isn’t is a complete irrelevance to anything. Martin and Piroe don’t like each other, haven't for a long time. It won’t be affecting anyone’s lives, it’s known by all those involved and was said on here many times last season. Maybe you weren’t paying attention.
Like I said, there is another forum to go to if it upsets you.
If you want to listen to Chinese whispers and class it as the truth.... You crack on 👠clearly got a lot to learn on that matter aswell as integrity.
I'm OK as I am, if you feel strong enough to mention another forum then maybe you should consider moving on if you don't like being questioned......its clearly annoyed you for you to bring it up.
Stir the hatred up before the season starts is always a good thing to do with someone who has an agenda or other issues.
We should be looking forward to the season not sticking the knife in.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:34 - Jul 21 by jack247
I’m not asking why he didn’t go to Juventus or Bayern, I’m asking why the smaller PL clubs or richer Championship clubs weren’t in for him at that price.
Seems a strange move to come to a club who’s manager had made it abundantly clear he wanted to leave. If he was that highly rated, he’d have had his pick.
No, I don’t think he’d become a mediocre striker, just as neither I, probably you and by the looks of it PSV and a host of better placed clubs than us didn’t think he’d be anywhere near as good as he was. Unless you believe our recruitment team or ‘Cooper’ as you call them, saw massive potential in a player who hadn’t shown it in Holland, that everyone else, including his club at the time, missed.
Leon Britton was a winger/attacking midfielder when he came on loan and when he signed permanently. He became the player he made his name as here. Filled in for Bodde one game and never left the role if i remember correctly. I doubt he’d have been as successful without that quirk of fate. I can understand clubs not seeing that when his main attribute as a youngster was taking players on.
Britton didnt fill in for Bodde, Britton telld the story himself Martinez discussed moving him from the wing to that role....it was MArtinezs way of being ablke to allow the CBs to not have to hoof it away and facilitate playing from the back.....it wasnt a quirk of fate at all it was planned by Martinez.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:34 - Jul 21 by jack247
I’m not asking why he didn’t go to Juventus or Bayern, I’m asking why the smaller PL clubs or richer Championship clubs weren’t in for him at that price.
Seems a strange move to come to a club who’s manager had made it abundantly clear he wanted to leave. If he was that highly rated, he’d have had his pick.
No, I don’t think he’d become a mediocre striker, just as neither I, probably you and by the looks of it PSV and a host of better placed clubs than us didn’t think he’d be anywhere near as good as he was. Unless you believe our recruitment team or ‘Cooper’ as you call them, saw massive potential in a player who hadn’t shown it in Holland, that everyone else, including his club at the time, missed.
Leon Britton was a winger/attacking midfielder when he came on loan and when he signed permanently. He became the player he made his name as here. Filled in for Bodde one game and never left the role if i remember correctly. I doubt he’d have been as successful without that quirk of fate. I can understand clubs not seeing that when his main attribute as a youngster was taking players on.
Maybe they didn’t go and scout him? You would have to ask them that I suppose. Why didn’t we try to sign Ivan Toney? Why didn’t anyone else? He was a goal machine at Posh.
Again, it’s the same for a lot of players. We brought him in under Cooper for a 7 figure sum because he was identified as someone who could score the necessary goals to replace Ayew. The club and Cooper were correct in that thinking. Martin was the reluctant beneficiary of a real gem.
He didn’t make it abundantly clear he wanted to leave, we went through this last season. To the point where you had come out and posted that you now expect him to stay.
Of course I think we expected him to be the striker he is, it’s why we shelled out so much. Wasn’t he the record signing for a striker in the football league with us at the time? He came before Obafemi right? We clearly felt they both could make a massive impact which is why we shelled out such a sum on strikers, something we have rarely done in our history at this level.
Britton used to tear the league up on the wing too. The point is moot.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:43 - Jul 21 by magicdaps10
If you want to listen to Chinese whispers and class it as the truth.... You crack on 👠clearly got a lot to learn on that matter aswell as integrity.
I'm OK as I am, if you feel strong enough to mention another forum then maybe you should consider moving on if you don't like being questioned......its clearly annoyed you for you to bring it up.
Stir the hatred up before the season starts is always a good thing to do with someone who has an agenda or other issues.
We should be looking forward to the season not sticking the knife in.
No Chinese whispers here, simply facts.
You are the one complaining squire, not me. I’m giving you an alternative as the content here clearly upsets you.
Hatred? Who is stirring hatred? Between whom? Dramatic as ever I see.
I’m stating a fact, a fact that was readily spoken about last season too, on a topic which requires that truth to be spoken.
If that upsets you then it’s something you will have to deal with.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:47 - Jul 21 by vetchonian
Britton didnt fill in for Bodde, Britton telld the story himself Martinez discussed moving him from the wing to that role....it was MArtinezs way of being ablke to allow the CBs to not have to hoof it away and facilitate playing from the back.....it wasnt a quirk of fate at all it was planned by Martinez.
That may well be the case. He definitely stepped in for a game Bodde was unavailable for and kept the role. Bodde had been playing there with Leon wider until then.
He did step straight up like a duck to water though, so I have no doubt you are right, it was a long term plan rather than just playing him there out of necessity.
The point I was making is the reason Leon came here and not to a bigger club, was that he was a completely different type of player when we signed him. Hard for anyone not working with him day to day to see his potential as a midfield anchor when he was playing a wider, more attacking game.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:13 - Jul 21 with 633 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:08 - Jul 21 by jack247
That may well be the case. He definitely stepped in for a game Bodde was unavailable for and kept the role. Bodde had been playing there with Leon wider until then.
He did step straight up like a duck to water though, so I have no doubt you are right, it was a long term plan rather than just playing him there out of necessity.
The point I was making is the reason Leon came here and not to a bigger club, was that he was a completely different type of player when we signed him. Hard for anyone not working with him day to day to see his potential as a midfield anchor when he was playing a wider, more attacking game.
He didn’t have to go to a bigger club, anyone in league 2 would want Britton on the wing surely? We were paying pittance back then, even clubs smaller than us paid better wages and were closer to London.
He was dynamite on the wing. From West Ham, hardly an unknown club off the radar. Why didn’t anyone else take him?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:05 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Maybe they didn’t go and scout him? You would have to ask them that I suppose. Why didn’t we try to sign Ivan Toney? Why didn’t anyone else? He was a goal machine at Posh.
Again, it’s the same for a lot of players. We brought him in under Cooper for a 7 figure sum because he was identified as someone who could score the necessary goals to replace Ayew. The club and Cooper were correct in that thinking. Martin was the reluctant beneficiary of a real gem.
He didn’t make it abundantly clear he wanted to leave, we went through this last season. To the point where you had come out and posted that you now expect him to stay.
Of course I think we expected him to be the striker he is, it’s why we shelled out so much. Wasn’t he the record signing for a striker in the football league with us at the time? He came before Obafemi right? We clearly felt they both could make a massive impact which is why we shelled out such a sum on strikers, something we have rarely done in our history at this level.
Britton used to tear the league up on the wing too. The point is moot.
Watch the post playoff final interview, if that’s not making it abundantly clear, I don’t know what is. Piroe hadn’t signed for us by that point. He’s either signing for a club with a manager who is about to leave, or doesn’t want to be there. Both as it turned out.
I said I expected Cooper to stay after the Fulham and Palace jobs, both of which I think he was favourite for at different points both went on a fairly short period and it looked like there was nowhere for him to go. I’ll admit I didn’t expect him to resign.
The Britton point isn’t moot at all. He joined as a winger in league two and developed with us. Toney, I’ll agree is a better example.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:22 - Jul 21 by jack247
Watch the post playoff final interview, if that’s not making it abundantly clear, I don’t know what is. Piroe hadn’t signed for us by that point. He’s either signing for a club with a manager who is about to leave, or doesn’t want to be there. Both as it turned out.
I said I expected Cooper to stay after the Fulham and Palace jobs, both of which I think he was favourite for at different points both went on a fairly short period and it looked like there was nowhere for him to go. I’ll admit I didn’t expect him to resign.
The Britton point isn’t moot at all. He joined as a winger in league two and developed with us. Toney, I’ll agree is a better example.
Yes we have been through that, it seems like a manager that just lost a play off final.
Quote me a sentence which he made it abundantly clear he wanted to leave. Shouldn’t be too difficult, right?
Piroe was identified by Martin when he played in an international tournament. I’m pretty sure Piroe didn’t speak to you prior to signing and ask you as a body language expert what you think that meant, after a crushing defeat. In which case he was very much still thinking Cooper would be here - ironically so were you after that.
But I don’t even understand what point you are making with regards to that. It’s irrelevant.
Britton is a moot point. Doesn’t matter if he was a winger on a central midfielder, when he signed from West Ham he was a dynamite winger that was lighting up our side. Why didn’t anyone else come in for him? Why didn’t anyone else come in for Michu who was the top goalscoring midfielder in La Liga the season prior?
The list is endless of quality players that go to a club with little competition. Piroe is not an isolated case at all, not even close.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:13 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
He didn’t have to go to a bigger club, anyone in league 2 would want Britton on the wing surely? We were paying pittance back then, even clubs smaller than us paid better wages and were closer to London.
He was dynamite on the wing. From West Ham, hardly an unknown club off the radar. Why didn’t anyone else take him?
Similar to Joe Allen returning now I’d guess. Just different ends of their careers. I’m sure both would have had more lucrative options but both wanted to come here.
He came here on loan as an unknown teenager, played a huge part in our survival, loved the place and wanted to come back. He’s said that himself. I very much doubt we’d have been able to sign him permanently had that initial loan period been anywhere else.
Back on topic, it’s not just Piroe. Obafemi and Downes values skyrocketed too. I know Obafemi was a long term target. Extraordinary that three players sign at roughy the same time and their values all increase exponentially in spite of the football the manager has them playing.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:46 - Jul 21 with 585 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:30 - Jul 21 by jack247
Similar to Joe Allen returning now I’d guess. Just different ends of their careers. I’m sure both would have had more lucrative options but both wanted to come here.
He came here on loan as an unknown teenager, played a huge part in our survival, loved the place and wanted to come back. He’s said that himself. I very much doubt we’d have been able to sign him permanently had that initial loan period been anywhere else.
Back on topic, it’s not just Piroe. Obafemi and Downes values skyrocketed too. I know Obafemi was a long term target. Extraordinary that three players sign at roughy the same time and their values all increase exponentially in spite of the football the manager has them playing.
Huh? Why would a young Londoner choose to come to Swansea over all else? A team who was tipped for the drop from the football league? Are you seriously telling me Britton came to us out of choice because of his deep love for the club he was briefly on loan with?
You aren’t making sense now.
You seem to be making your own narrative as opposed to facing the reality of the situation. Who else came in for Leon then? Surely you know in order to make the claim he chose our club over others out of pure love.
Comparing Allen coming here at the end of his career to his hometown is nothing like Britton coming here. He came here because there was nobody else offering him the chance to play.
So we are dropping Piroe now and moving on? Same goes for them.
We paid £2m for Obafemi who had over 30 Premier League appearances to his name and a handful of Premier League goals. Bags of pace and someone Cooper wanted to bring in to get the goals the season prior.
Downes was another expensive signing £1.5m for a promising league 1 player tipped for the Premier League while at Ipswich. When he arrived I said he would go on to big things and is of a similar to Steven Gerrard.
Signing good young players is part of the clubs ethos and business plan. This would be the case regardless of who was in charge should we have the finances to do so.
Signing good young players who go on to prove just that despite the ludicrous managers tactics is something they should be very proud of. But they were identified for exactly that purpose.
It’s not often we have spend £5m on thee players in this league. There was clearly strong belief behind them, and it’s obvious why.
They all made immediate impacts, when given a run. That suggests it’s their talent doing the talking not the underperforming manager.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:30 - Jul 21 by jack247
Similar to Joe Allen returning now I’d guess. Just different ends of their careers. I’m sure both would have had more lucrative options but both wanted to come here.
He came here on loan as an unknown teenager, played a huge part in our survival, loved the place and wanted to come back. He’s said that himself. I very much doubt we’d have been able to sign him permanently had that initial loan period been anywhere else.
Back on topic, it’s not just Piroe. Obafemi and Downes values skyrocketed too. I know Obafemi was a long term target. Extraordinary that three players sign at roughy the same time and their values all increase exponentially in spite of the football the manager has them playing.
your last sentance says it all "in spite of the football the manager has them playing"
IT is obvioud Downes, Obafemi and Piroe have talent....we gave them a platform to show what they could do... despite the style of football.
aprt from Downes your statement back up the theory MArtin has had little to do with th e players increase in value..
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:29 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Yes we have been through that, it seems like a manager that just lost a play off final.
Quote me a sentence which he made it abundantly clear he wanted to leave. Shouldn’t be too difficult, right?
Piroe was identified by Martin when he played in an international tournament. I’m pretty sure Piroe didn’t speak to you prior to signing and ask you as a body language expert what you think that meant, after a crushing defeat. In which case he was very much still thinking Cooper would be here - ironically so were you after that.
But I don’t even understand what point you are making with regards to that. It’s irrelevant.
Britton is a moot point. Doesn’t matter if he was a winger on a central midfielder, when he signed from West Ham he was a dynamite winger that was lighting up our side. Why didn’t anyone else come in for him? Why didn’t anyone else come in for Michu who was the top goalscoring midfielder in La Liga the season prior?
The list is endless of quality players that go to a club with little competition. Piroe is not an isolated case at all, not even close.
It’s not a single sentence though is it, it’s his whole demeanour and detachment through the interview, regardless of how disappointed he was.
Piotr wouldn’t have needed to speak to me if he’d watched that video, plenty on here were saying he was desperate to go after watching it and they were proved right.
After that, we’ve covered. Immediately after that I was certain he was off, I only changed my mind when all the realistic jobs went.
However, I don’t want to keep discussing Steve Cooper. I get comparisons are inevitable and he’s streets ahead as a manager. No argument. He went up in my estimation last season. I’d rather discuss Piroe, Martin etc
Piroe is not an isolated case agreed. For it to happen three times in a season, when it hadn’t happened at all (unless you count Lowe, who I agree was undersold, since we’d been relegated, is unusual at best.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:55 - Jul 21 with 569 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:48 - Jul 21 by vetchonian
your last sentance says it all "in spite of the football the manager has them playing"
IT is obvioud Downes, Obafemi and Piroe have talent....we gave them a platform to show what they could do... despite the style of football.
aprt from Downes your statement back up the theory MArtin has had little to do with th e players increase in value..
My last sentence was referring to Dr P (and probably yourself) saying they flourished despite Martin. Sure, they’d all shown potential, but none of them had flourished at previous clubs. Downes was the closest, but I very much doubt he looked like a future £9m West Ham player at Ipswich.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:01 - Jul 21 with 563 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:50 - Jul 21 by jack247
It’s not a single sentence though is it, it’s his whole demeanour and detachment through the interview, regardless of how disappointed he was.
Piotr wouldn’t have needed to speak to me if he’d watched that video, plenty on here were saying he was desperate to go after watching it and they were proved right.
After that, we’ve covered. Immediately after that I was certain he was off, I only changed my mind when all the realistic jobs went.
However, I don’t want to keep discussing Steve Cooper. I get comparisons are inevitable and he’s streets ahead as a manager. No argument. He went up in my estimation last season. I’d rather discuss Piroe, Martin etc
Piroe is not an isolated case agreed. For it to happen three times in a season, when it hadn’t happened at all (unless you count Lowe, who I agree was undersold, since we’d been relegated, is unusual at best.
So he didn’t say anything at all to indicate he wanted to leave then? You are just saying a manager who just lost a playoff final had a poor demeanour (shock horror) and interpreted that yourself as him wanting to leave.
You see this is why we explore what people say as it’s often wildly exaggerated. It’s fair to say he didn’t “make it abundantly clear he wanted to leave” then. You cannot judge the demeanour of a manager after losing a play off final and interpret it as anything other than that. If it became reality months later that is simply coincidental.
You were the one who brought up Cooper leaving, I simply made the point that it was Cooper that brought him in due to his belief he would replace Ayew’s goals. He clearly didn’t think Piroe needed Russell Martin and his bizarre underperforming tactics for him to succeed.
Funny that.
What do you mean hadn’t happened at all? We weren’t given any money to spend. What we did bring in did exactly the same (Guehi, Gallagher, Brewster, MGW). Young British players, in which if they have a fairly good individual season, their value increases.
McBurnie, James, Mawson, Rodon, Grimes, probably Cabango have all seen their values increase at some point in the last 5 seasons.
This seasons increases has coincided with us actually signing young talent permanently instead of increasing the value of players we only loan. It’s a natural and expected progression not a shock outcome that Martin’s brilliance has delivered.
As many appear to be agreeing with, their values increased despite awful tactics and management by Russell.
Our disappointing season and awful league position lends that to it being exactly the case.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2022 13:02]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:46 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Huh? Why would a young Londoner choose to come to Swansea over all else? A team who was tipped for the drop from the football league? Are you seriously telling me Britton came to us out of choice because of his deep love for the club he was briefly on loan with?
You aren’t making sense now.
You seem to be making your own narrative as opposed to facing the reality of the situation. Who else came in for Leon then? Surely you know in order to make the claim he chose our club over others out of pure love.
Comparing Allen coming here at the end of his career to his hometown is nothing like Britton coming here. He came here because there was nobody else offering him the chance to play.
So we are dropping Piroe now and moving on? Same goes for them.
We paid £2m for Obafemi who had over 30 Premier League appearances to his name and a handful of Premier League goals. Bags of pace and someone Cooper wanted to bring in to get the goals the season prior.
Downes was another expensive signing £1.5m for a promising league 1 player tipped for the Premier League while at Ipswich. When he arrived I said he would go on to big things and is of a similar to Steven Gerrard.
Signing good young players is part of the clubs ethos and business plan. This would be the case regardless of who was in charge should we have the finances to do so.
Signing good young players who go on to prove just that despite the ludicrous managers tactics is something they should be very proud of. But they were identified for exactly that purpose.
It’s not often we have spend £5m on thee players in this league. There was clearly strong belief behind them, and it’s obvious why.
They all made immediate impacts, when given a run. That suggests it’s their talent doing the talking not the underperforming manager.
You’ve lost me now. In one post it’s ‘anyone in league 2 would want Britton on the wing’ in another it’s ‘why would a young Londoner choose to come to Swansea over all else’. He either had options or he didn’t. After that half season loan, I’d be amazed if he didn’t have clubs closer to London/offering better wages after him.
We’re going to get sidetracked again though.
Signing good young players and turning a profit absolutely should be part of our ethos. Now the McBurnie/James/Rodon/Roberts well is running dry, it’s probably the only sustainable way to go.
I’m just surprised that we’ve done it three times in a season, when we hadn’t managed it at all since relegation, unless were counting Lowe, who I agree we probably undersold.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:05 - Jul 21 with 557 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:55 - Jul 21 by jack247
My last sentence was referring to Dr P (and probably yourself) saying they flourished despite Martin. Sure, they’d all shown potential, but none of them had flourished at previous clubs. Downes was the closest, but I very much doubt he looked like a future £9m West Ham player at Ipswich.
He did, their fans wanted £10m for him.
As for Piroe and Obafemi, they weren’t given the chances by their clubs. One was a top Eresevisie side and the other a good Premier League side.
Both had been touted by big clubs before coming to us. Especially Piroe who was wanted by some of Europeans giants.
We spent 7 figures on each an every one of them for the very expectation that they would increase in value.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:01 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
So he didn’t say anything at all to indicate he wanted to leave then? You are just saying a manager who just lost a playoff final had a poor demeanour (shock horror) and interpreted that yourself as him wanting to leave.
You see this is why we explore what people say as it’s often wildly exaggerated. It’s fair to say he didn’t “make it abundantly clear he wanted to leave” then. You cannot judge the demeanour of a manager after losing a play off final and interpret it as anything other than that. If it became reality months later that is simply coincidental.
You were the one who brought up Cooper leaving, I simply made the point that it was Cooper that brought him in due to his belief he would replace Ayew’s goals. He clearly didn’t think Piroe needed Russell Martin and his bizarre underperforming tactics for him to succeed.
Funny that.
What do you mean hadn’t happened at all? We weren’t given any money to spend. What we did bring in did exactly the same (Guehi, Gallagher, Brewster, MGW). Young British players, in which if they have a fairly good individual season, their value increases.
McBurnie, James, Mawson, Rodon, Grimes, probably Cabango have all seen their values increase at some point in the last 5 seasons.
This seasons increases has coincided with us actually signing young talent permanently instead of increasing the value of players we only loan. It’s a natural and expected progression not a shock outcome that Martin’s brilliance has delivered.
As many appear to be agreeing with, their values increased despite awful tactics and management by Russell.
Our disappointing season and awful league position lends that to it being exactly the case.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2022 13:02]
Bringing in loan players, as much as I advocate it when we’re in with a shout at promotion isn’t the point. It’s about increasing players value so we can plug the financial hope we have every year.
Players that came through our under 23 team in preparation for PL relegation is great, but we seem to have sold the bulk of the jewels. If Congreve, Ollie Cooper breakthrough, so much the better.
I’m talking about signing 20 year olds with a view to growing their value. There have been plenty of attempts at it. The three we are discussing, Darling, Whittaker, Joseph, Ogbeta, Lowe, Walsh arguably al fall into that category.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:12 - Jul 21 with 541 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:04 - Jul 21 by jack247
You’ve lost me now. In one post it’s ‘anyone in league 2 would want Britton on the wing’ in another it’s ‘why would a young Londoner choose to come to Swansea over all else’. He either had options or he didn’t. After that half season loan, I’d be amazed if he didn’t have clubs closer to London/offering better wages after him.
We’re going to get sidetracked again though.
Signing good young players and turning a profit absolutely should be part of our ethos. Now the McBurnie/James/Rodon/Roberts well is running dry, it’s probably the only sustainable way to go.
I’m just surprised that we’ve done it three times in a season, when we hadn’t managed it at all since relegation, unless were counting Lowe, who I agree we probably undersold.
It’s not difficult. You are saying if someone is so good then why are we the only club that wants them.
Well, Britton was incredible for us on the wing, very visible too being from West Ham and spending half a season with us. Yet nobody else seemed to try and bring him in - why?
You have seemed to suggest that they were indeed queuing up but Brittons undying love for us was the reason he shunned all else to come to us. Which obviously is extremely fanciful considering he had barely a connection to our club other than half a season here.
If other clubs tried to get him, they would have got him.
Why are you surprised though? I don’t understand.
Who are you looking at with regards to a young player we have signed for 7 figures since relegation? You appear to be stating it’s a tactic that has failed until Martin has arrived. I’d suggest we didn’t have the money to implement that tactic until Martin arrived, certainly not under Cooper.
However anyone we loaned in with that mould, they also increased their value many times over, including the ones we sold since relegation such as Mawson, James, McBurnie and Rodon.
So to cut to the chase - since relegation, name the young players we have signed for 7 figure sums that did not increase their value when with us.
That’s probably a more accurate and telling line of discussion.
Celina would be the only one that comes to mind. Which suggests it is far more likely than not.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:12 - Jul 21 by jack247
Their fans wanted £10m and they got £1.5m. I’d take what their fans want with a pinch of salt
Of course, but you said he probably didn’t look like a £9m player there.
He did.
Just as Bodde did with us, the fact we were only offered a pittance by Derby and nearly sold him for that is meaningless. Same goes for James, we wanted £10m and he was nearly sold for what £3.5m wasn’t it?
Bodde, Downes and James all looked like top quality players regardless of what they were or nearly were acquired for.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:08 - Jul 21 by jack247
That may well be the case. He definitely stepped in for a game Bodde was unavailable for and kept the role. Bodde had been playing there with Leon wider until then.
He did step straight up like a duck to water though, so I have no doubt you are right, it was a long term plan rather than just playing him there out of necessity.
The point I was making is the reason Leon came here and not to a bigger club, was that he was a completely different type of player when we signed him. Hard for anyone not working with him day to day to see his potential as a midfield anchor when he was playing a wider, more attacking game.
I think you are getting mixed up with Mark Gower. He stood in for someone in the middle of midfield around that time and didn’t return to the wing. Britton was central pre Bodde.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:31 - Jul 21 with 508 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:46 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Huh? Why would a young Londoner choose to come to Swansea over all else? A team who was tipped for the drop from the football league? Are you seriously telling me Britton came to us out of choice because of his deep love for the club he was briefly on loan with?
You aren’t making sense now.
You seem to be making your own narrative as opposed to facing the reality of the situation. Who else came in for Leon then? Surely you know in order to make the claim he chose our club over others out of pure love.
Comparing Allen coming here at the end of his career to his hometown is nothing like Britton coming here. He came here because there was nobody else offering him the chance to play.
So we are dropping Piroe now and moving on? Same goes for them.
We paid £2m for Obafemi who had over 30 Premier League appearances to his name and a handful of Premier League goals. Bags of pace and someone Cooper wanted to bring in to get the goals the season prior.
Downes was another expensive signing £1.5m for a promising league 1 player tipped for the Premier League while at Ipswich. When he arrived I said he would go on to big things and is of a similar to Steven Gerrard.
Signing good young players is part of the clubs ethos and business plan. This would be the case regardless of who was in charge should we have the finances to do so.
Signing good young players who go on to prove just that despite the ludicrous managers tactics is something they should be very proud of. But they were identified for exactly that purpose.
It’s not often we have spend £5m on thee players in this league. There was clearly strong belief behind them, and it’s obvious why.
They all made immediate impacts, when given a run. That suggests it’s their talent doing the talking not the underperforming manager.
It is the way it is. The manger gets the credit or criticisms and carries the can for performing or underperforming players.
Swansea currently are less than the sum of their parts. Downes, Cabango, Piroe, Obafemi Paterson and Naughton all had good seasons but Swansea were never more than mid table. This is presented as part of the development process.
If Swansea is still mid table this with a strong team on paper the process will be seen as not working and doubts will be raised in the corridors of power.
Leon came to Swansea due to the vision of Brain Flynn and man sorely under rated on forums. Downes came to Swansea due to his links to Martins assistant who was with him at Ipswich.
Whether the players like the manager or not makes very little difference if the players perform. everyone is different. Piroe is playing every week and scoring a record number of goals. Martins system works for him without doubt. Piroe knows it and his dad knows it.
This relationship is fragile. McBurnie was great under Potter but has been dismal under anyone else. 6-7 goals in the last 3 seasons.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:31 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1
It is the way it is. The manger gets the credit or criticisms and carries the can for performing or underperforming players.
Swansea currently are less than the sum of their parts. Downes, Cabango, Piroe, Obafemi Paterson and Naughton all had good seasons but Swansea were never more than mid table. This is presented as part of the development process.
If Swansea is still mid table this with a strong team on paper the process will be seen as not working and doubts will be raised in the corridors of power.
Leon came to Swansea due to the vision of Brain Flynn and man sorely under rated on forums. Downes came to Swansea due to his links to Martins assistant who was with him at Ipswich.
Whether the players like the manager or not makes very little difference if the players perform. everyone is different. Piroe is playing every week and scoring a record number of goals. Martins system works for him without doubt. Piroe knows it and his dad knows it.
This relationship is fragile. McBurnie was great under Potter but has been dismal under anyone else. 6-7 goals in the last 3 seasons.
It’s not.
Solskjaer was not getting praise for Ronaldos performances, he was saving Solskjaer, not the other way around. Same with Piroe last season, these players were saving Martin despite his clear ineptitude.
I didn’t hear many praise Cooper for Ayews performances. In fact the narrative was very much that if we didn’t have Ayew we would be awful. It’s funny how that changes.
However if you are sensible like me you realise that players are good simply due to their talent and often in spite of the manager that picks them. Sometimes a manager deserves praise for a players performances if they change their position, play to their strengths, get the whole team playing well and feeding off each other… sometimes they deserve criticism, playing players out of position, not playing them enough, dropping them unceremoniously etc.
But largely individual performances will be down to the player themselves and the managers ability judged on how they get the team performing.
Why players come here (their own reasons) is irrelevant, it’s why we bring them here that is important. And when we sign young players and spend millions on them, it’s with the expectation that they will increase in value. It’s not a shock, or something out of the ordinary Martin has delivered for us.
These players were given to Martin, some of them reluctantly accepted by him, fell out with him, overcame an underperforming team due to poor managerial decision making and still managed to put in some solid individual performances.
That will continue to happen next season too regardless of league position. I fully expect Congreve and Darling to increase in value simply because they have the ability for that to be the case. Simply a solid season will do that for them.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:17 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
It’s not difficult. You are saying if someone is so good then why are we the only club that wants them.
Well, Britton was incredible for us on the wing, very visible too being from West Ham and spending half a season with us. Yet nobody else seemed to try and bring him in - why?
You have seemed to suggest that they were indeed queuing up but Brittons undying love for us was the reason he shunned all else to come to us. Which obviously is extremely fanciful considering he had barely a connection to our club other than half a season here.
If other clubs tried to get him, they would have got him.
Why are you surprised though? I don’t understand.
Who are you looking at with regards to a young player we have signed for 7 figures since relegation? You appear to be stating it’s a tactic that has failed until Martin has arrived. I’d suggest we didn’t have the money to implement that tactic until Martin arrived, certainly not under Cooper.
However anyone we loaned in with that mould, they also increased their value many times over, including the ones we sold since relegation such as Mawson, James, McBurnie and Rodon.
So to cut to the chase - since relegation, name the young players we have signed for 7 figure sums that did not increase their value when with us.
That’s probably a more accurate and telling line of discussion.
Celina would be the only one that comes to mind. Which suggests it is far more likely than not.
Prior to last season, I think it was only Celina and Asoro we spent over a million on. Whittaker was around £700/800k? None of them increased in value at all, let alone exponentially.
Until last season, we’ve had the luxury of selling off our academy/U23 starlets. We can’t rely on that anymore. If we need to raise a few million to subsidise the running of the club every season, this seems to be the best way to do it.
The original point I was making, was that as a fan, I didn’t feel this football gave us much chance of promotion. From the owners perspective, speculating £5m and ending up with £7.5m after Ipswich cut and say £25m worth of assets will feel like a lottery win.
The crux of our disagreement is that I don’t think this is season after season, run of the mill transfer business or that we’d be able to do it under the likes of Bob Bradley or whoever.
You can’t really compare it to Cooper as we didn’t have that kind of outlay when he was here. It’s miles ahead of what Potter managed, though in fairness, Dan James was unrecognisable within a season under him.
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