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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:53 - Jul 18 by vetchonian
I would say Piroes value has increased despite of MArtin
If you look at Piroes history he has scored goals consistently ok when he stepped up to senior football he was not a prolific but he still scored goals.
As Jasper as pointed out elsewhere on here Martin moved Piroe form up top to midfield and he still scored goals had he remained as striker it is possible he could have bagged 30.
I think its far too early to start proclaiming Martin as someone who is developing players...Downes always had the potential but fair dos Martin brought him here..and he has made us some money but still early days to be claiming him as a guru
I didn’t say he was a guru. I said the owners would be delighted by how much our main assets appreciated last season (obviously one or two who don’t fit his style have depreciated). If their objective is promotion, I doubt Martin is the man for the job, if it’s to tick us along by selling off a star every season until they get a buyer, he’s had a great start.
I’d agree Piroe would almost certainly have got more goals as main striker all season, but that would have meant Obafemi not starting, or us shoehorning them both into a formation that would have likely meant they got less service.
However you dress it up, we bought Piroe for just over a million. If he was a £15m player 12 months ago, he’d never have come here.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:05 - Jul 18 with 1256 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:02 - Jul 18 by jack247
I didn’t say he was a guru. I said the owners would be delighted by how much our main assets appreciated last season (obviously one or two who don’t fit his style have depreciated). If their objective is promotion, I doubt Martin is the man for the job, if it’s to tick us along by selling off a star every season until they get a buyer, he’s had a great start.
I’d agree Piroe would almost certainly have got more goals as main striker all season, but that would have meant Obafemi not starting, or us shoehorning them both into a formation that would have likely meant they got less service.
However you dress it up, we bought Piroe for just over a million. If he was a £15m player 12 months ago, he’d never have come here.
Absolutely agree with your closing statement well done to our past recruitment team
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:05 - Jul 18 by vetchonian
Absolutely agree with your closing statement well done to our past recruitment team
Of course. Fantastic signing from them.
Pretty churlish to argue his value didn’t increase dramatically last season or that Martin can’t take any credit there. Same goes for Downes and Obafemi, probably Cabango.
At the same time, while I think this type of football gives certain players the platform for big moves, I don’t think it gets us promoted, which is my main concern.
Credit and criticism should both be given when due. It’s easy to be myopic.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:25 - Jul 18 with 1223 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:21 - Jul 18 by jack247
Of course. Fantastic signing from them.
Pretty churlish to argue his value didn’t increase dramatically last season or that Martin can’t take any credit there. Same goes for Downes and Obafemi, probably Cabango.
At the same time, while I think this type of football gives certain players the platform for big moves, I don’t think it gets us promoted, which is my main concern.
Credit and criticism should both be given when due. It’s easy to be myopic.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:21 - Jul 18 by jack247
Of course. Fantastic signing from them.
Pretty churlish to argue his value didn’t increase dramatically last season or that Martin can’t take any credit there. Same goes for Downes and Obafemi, probably Cabango.
At the same time, while I think this type of football gives certain players the platform for big moves, I don’t think it gets us promoted, which is my main concern.
Credit and criticism should both be given when due. It’s easy to be myopic.
ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Hopefully some can learn from that top post. It will get some posters backs up and they will argue the toss and deflect but that's as good a post as you will read on this forum.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:21 - Jul 18 by jack247
Of course. Fantastic signing from them.
Pretty churlish to argue his value didn’t increase dramatically last season or that Martin can’t take any credit there. Same goes for Downes and Obafemi, probably Cabango.
At the same time, while I think this type of football gives certain players the platform for big moves, I don’t think it gets us promoted, which is my main concern.
Credit and criticism should both be given when due. It’s easy to be myopic.
Good post. I hope you are wrong and this type of football will get us promoted, but only time will tell
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:21 - Jul 18 by raynor94
It's not the pessimism, you criticise him on a daily basis, and seem to be wishing him to fail.
At least let's give it 10 games and see where we are
That was said last season... Then 20 games, then half a season, then the full season.
Until it came a point where instead of recognising our failings, people were actively trying to lower expectations and attack those that called it correctly.
Nobody is saying we are advocating booing the players from minute one of the season, but the players and in particularly the manager have it to prove to us. We have them a whole season to get it right last season, this is the time for performances now.
This team is strong. No more “process”, no more “work in progress”, no more “building”.
No excuses.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:46 - Jul 18 by magicdaps10
ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Hopefully some can learn from that top post. It will get some posters backs up and they will argue the toss and deflect but that's as good a post as you will read on this forum.
Why would it get anyone’s backs up?
Players values increase every season, it’s expected and nothing new that we haven’t seen every season in memory.
It would take the most horrific of horrific seasons for no players values to increase over the course of a season.
Under our last manager we saw huge increases in the value of Brewster, Gallagher, Guehi, Grimes, Lowe and Rodon. It’s completely normal for players values to increase. Especially those as talented as Piroe and Obafemi, hence why Cooper was chasing them.
But what separates a good manager from a wasteful and sub par one is how the team as a whole performs. That has been poor every single season of Martin’s managerial career.
No escaping that, is there.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:17 - Jul 18 by STID2017
Good post. I hope you are wrong and this type of football will get us promoted, but only time will tell
People often say they hope they are wrong but don’t really mean it. I absolutely do here. Although the football often frustrates, I find it entertaining and enjoyable.
Stick us in the playoff final now and I’d fancy us against anyone, haven’t always been able to say that in the past, wouldn’t have last season against any of the three that went up. Certainly didn’t when we actually got there last time.
I don’t think this kind of football will be consistent enough though. We’ll shred some teams and beat ourselves the week later. Maybe it will be enough to get us top six, I doubt it though.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 07:05 - Jul 19 with 1036 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 01:25 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
Why would it get anyone’s backs up?
Players values increase every season, it’s expected and nothing new that we haven’t seen every season in memory.
It would take the most horrific of horrific seasons for no players values to increase over the course of a season.
Under our last manager we saw huge increases in the value of Brewster, Gallagher, Guehi, Grimes, Lowe and Rodon. It’s completely normal for players values to increase. Especially those as talented as Piroe and Obafemi, hence why Cooper was chasing them.
But what separates a good manager from a wasteful and sub par one is how the team as a whole performs. That has been poor every single season of Martin’s managerial career.
No escaping that, is there.
The point I was alluding to but didn’t actually make, was we don’t know what his remit is.
In a situation like ours, where we have to sell an asset or slash outgoings every season just to tick by, in theory, it should get harder to go up every season. Potter inherited a decimated team. Cooper lost James and McBurnie either just before or very early into his tenure, then had to sell Rodon the following season. Martin inherited that team minus Ayew, Guehi and Gallagher, we spent roughly what we brought in between Downes, Piroe, Obafemi, plus the lower fee signings against Lowe and Roberts. This time, it was made abundantly clear we’d have to sell a big name just to survive. I very much doubt it will be any different next time.
If they want a manager who can bring in players around the £1-2m mark, then sell them on for a big profit 12 months later, his playing style is going to do that. If they are looking to get out in the short to medium term, it’s a more sensible strategy than throwing money at a promotion push.
If they have genuine promotion ambitions, which I’d think is a little unrealistic given the ever decreasing resources, then I think this type of football is too kamikaze to be consistent.
Edit. I’d caveat that by repeating my earlier point that on paper, it looks like a pretty weak league this time. I’d swap Fulham, Bournemouth and Forest for Burnley and two yo-yo teams any day. Both Luton and Huddersfield in the playoffs last time speaks volumes.
I’d also agree with all the points people have made about the honeymoon period being long gone.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 7:23]
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:46 - Jul 19 with 979 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 07:05 - Jul 19 by jack247
The point I was alluding to but didn’t actually make, was we don’t know what his remit is.
In a situation like ours, where we have to sell an asset or slash outgoings every season just to tick by, in theory, it should get harder to go up every season. Potter inherited a decimated team. Cooper lost James and McBurnie either just before or very early into his tenure, then had to sell Rodon the following season. Martin inherited that team minus Ayew, Guehi and Gallagher, we spent roughly what we brought in between Downes, Piroe, Obafemi, plus the lower fee signings against Lowe and Roberts. This time, it was made abundantly clear we’d have to sell a big name just to survive. I very much doubt it will be any different next time.
If they want a manager who can bring in players around the £1-2m mark, then sell them on for a big profit 12 months later, his playing style is going to do that. If they are looking to get out in the short to medium term, it’s a more sensible strategy than throwing money at a promotion push.
If they have genuine promotion ambitions, which I’d think is a little unrealistic given the ever decreasing resources, then I think this type of football is too kamikaze to be consistent.
Edit. I’d caveat that by repeating my earlier point that on paper, it looks like a pretty weak league this time. I’d swap Fulham, Bournemouth and Forest for Burnley and two yo-yo teams any day. Both Luton and Huddersfield in the playoffs last time speaks volumes.
I’d also agree with all the points people have made about the honeymoon period being long gone.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 7:23]
Sure, but his remit will clearly be to get the club promoted, especially with so much investment into it. Of course it will also be to sell players on for profit, but that comes with the territory and is the very minimum expected of any manager in any season as manager of this club and has been the case for as long as I can remember.
Let’s not pretend it was Martin who brought in or developed Piroe. Piroe was signed by Cooper and shunned by Martin. Piroes talent shone through, which is why we identified him in the first place. If any player scores 20 goals then their value with rocket, same happened with McBurnie.
If we were flying high and Piroe was smashing in the goals then you could certainly attribute that to the manager with the player feeding off the crest of a wave of the team playing excellently. But I won’t buy the suggestion that Martin is the reason Piroe is banging them in, with the club languishing at the bottom of the league.
Piroe in a successful and attacking side would be dynamite, his finishing is superb. I highly doubt a centre back who played most of his career outside the Premier League will have turned Piroe into a goalscoring machine from the very outset (when he wasn’t dropped from the side that is). His impact on the team was immediate and not something that was the product of any timely influence.
If Martin turns Fisher or Darling into twenty million pound players then by all means we can start looking at Martin for nurturing those and certainly attributing praise there. But to credit him with two players success in front of goal that he didn’t identify or even get along with is fanciful to say the least.
He is very fortunate he had them in the side, against is early wishes of course.
To think we finished 15th, scoring 58 goals yet Piroe and Obafemi had a combined 42 goals and assists between them is a terrifying prospect. If we added in another he fell out with multiple times in Pato and we may be taking 85-90% of our goals last season.
We were heavily reliant on two or three players to make up for our complete lack of potency, and that was largely down the tactics we were insisting on deploying for all the reasons spoken about over and over again.
If Bowyer thought we were predictable in a season we finished 4th then every manager in the league was mystic Meg last season, to a point the exact possession % and method of conceding could be predicted long before the game even started.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:46 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
Sure, but his remit will clearly be to get the club promoted, especially with so much investment into it. Of course it will also be to sell players on for profit, but that comes with the territory and is the very minimum expected of any manager in any season as manager of this club and has been the case for as long as I can remember.
Let’s not pretend it was Martin who brought in or developed Piroe. Piroe was signed by Cooper and shunned by Martin. Piroes talent shone through, which is why we identified him in the first place. If any player scores 20 goals then their value with rocket, same happened with McBurnie.
If we were flying high and Piroe was smashing in the goals then you could certainly attribute that to the manager with the player feeding off the crest of a wave of the team playing excellently. But I won’t buy the suggestion that Martin is the reason Piroe is banging them in, with the club languishing at the bottom of the league.
Piroe in a successful and attacking side would be dynamite, his finishing is superb. I highly doubt a centre back who played most of his career outside the Premier League will have turned Piroe into a goalscoring machine from the very outset (when he wasn’t dropped from the side that is). His impact on the team was immediate and not something that was the product of any timely influence.
If Martin turns Fisher or Darling into twenty million pound players then by all means we can start looking at Martin for nurturing those and certainly attributing praise there. But to credit him with two players success in front of goal that he didn’t identify or even get along with is fanciful to say the least.
He is very fortunate he had them in the side, against is early wishes of course.
To think we finished 15th, scoring 58 goals yet Piroe and Obafemi had a combined 42 goals and assists between them is a terrifying prospect. If we added in another he fell out with multiple times in Pato and we may be taking 85-90% of our goals last season.
We were heavily reliant on two or three players to make up for our complete lack of potency, and that was largely down the tactics we were insisting on deploying for all the reasons spoken about over and over again.
If Bowyer thought we were predictable in a season we finished 4th then every manager in the league was mystic Meg last season, to a point the exact possession % and method of conceding could be predicted long before the game even started.
There’s no pretending here. Show me where I said Martin brought Piroe in. He’d scored three goals in twenty nine appearances over two years in Holland. He wasn’t prolific when we bought him. Massive kudos to the recruitment team before Martin got here as well of course.
He was shunned (and not given the 9 shirt) at the start of the season because of his attitude. He responded to that brilliantly. If Cooper had done that, I’m sure it would have been brilliant man management. Same, to a larger degree, with Obafemi.
We’re not going to get far with Fisher. He’s been brought in because Martin trusts him with his feet. I have absolutely no doubt Darling has been brought in with a potentially lucrative resale in mind.
Last but one paragraph, don’t disagree at all. I don’t think we will be cohesive enough to be consistent, if they genuinely do expect promotion, I don’t think we will manage it, at least not with the system we played most of last season.
Obviously they want promotion, but that becomes less likely each season we have to sell big players to subsidise the running of the club. That’s not the same thing as being one of the 88 or so league clubs who have their best players cherry picked by clubs higher up the food chain, then reinvest most of it in replacements.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:51 - Jul 19 with 885 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:31 - Jul 19 by jack247
There’s no pretending here. Show me where I said Martin brought Piroe in. He’d scored three goals in twenty nine appearances over two years in Holland. He wasn’t prolific when we bought him. Massive kudos to the recruitment team before Martin got here as well of course.
He was shunned (and not given the 9 shirt) at the start of the season because of his attitude. He responded to that brilliantly. If Cooper had done that, I’m sure it would have been brilliant man management. Same, to a larger degree, with Obafemi.
We’re not going to get far with Fisher. He’s been brought in because Martin trusts him with his feet. I have absolutely no doubt Darling has been brought in with a potentially lucrative resale in mind.
Last but one paragraph, don’t disagree at all. I don’t think we will be cohesive enough to be consistent, if they genuinely do expect promotion, I don’t think we will manage it, at least not with the system we played most of last season.
Obviously they want promotion, but that becomes less likely each season we have to sell big players to subsidise the running of the club. That’s not the same thing as being one of the 88 or so league clubs who have their best players cherry picked by clubs higher up the food chain, then reinvest most of it in replacements.
He was a player that looks like he was always going to score goals at this level. You are either attributing his talent to Martin or you aren’t, If you aren’t then his record prior to coming here is irrelevant. As I said he made an impact immediately and and didn’t appear to be the result of time spent with the manager, who was a defender by trade.
So if we aren’t attributing his talent or his acquisition to Martin, then why are we even talking about it? I think there is some clear connections being made to Piroe and Martin’s management, which I think is fanciful. Piroe doesn’t even like Martin and that’s a fact as one or two on here also know.
As I said, if we were flying and Piroe was feeding off that play then I could see some sort of argument for it. However it was more a case of the team not clicking so Piroe doing it himself and getting us out of scrapes. Under Cooper we were flying and the players he brought in and succeeded with were here due to his development of them previously. It’s chalk and cheese.
There is no chance his remit is simply to develop a player or two and sell on and thats it. There isn’t a lot in this league and we went up with far less resources last time, not to mention the likes of Barnsley and Luton who have given it good cracks in recent years. We have more than enough finances and investment to compete in the top 6, yet it’s clear instead of addressing the managers clear shortcomings there are very clear attempts to subtly dumb down expectations instead.
That will never wash for me. Another failure to compete for a play off spot this season while adopting these senseless tactics then he will need to be given the boot.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:31 - Jul 19 by jack247
There’s no pretending here. Show me where I said Martin brought Piroe in. He’d scored three goals in twenty nine appearances over two years in Holland. He wasn’t prolific when we bought him. Massive kudos to the recruitment team before Martin got here as well of course.
He was shunned (and not given the 9 shirt) at the start of the season because of his attitude. He responded to that brilliantly. If Cooper had done that, I’m sure it would have been brilliant man management. Same, to a larger degree, with Obafemi.
We’re not going to get far with Fisher. He’s been brought in because Martin trusts him with his feet. I have absolutely no doubt Darling has been brought in with a potentially lucrative resale in mind.
Last but one paragraph, don’t disagree at all. I don’t think we will be cohesive enough to be consistent, if they genuinely do expect promotion, I don’t think we will manage it, at least not with the system we played most of last season.
Obviously they want promotion, but that becomes less likely each season we have to sell big players to subsidise the running of the club. That’s not the same thing as being one of the 88 or so league clubs who have their best players cherry picked by clubs higher up the food chain, then reinvest most of it in replacements.
Get your facts straight before spouting such nonsense in the public domain.
Piroe's attitude is and always has been exemplary. He's a happy-go-lucky uber positive, highly ambitious top player.
Martin 'didn't fancy him' very early doors. He didn't think Piroe would 'get' his system. Wasn't 'cut out' for his system. All done in the most shambolic way, stripping the #9 jersey was only a fraction of the humiliation.
The fact that Piroe has delivered despite Martin says everything about Piroe, his dad and Martin.
Let's not forget, Martin said his focus was always the 'defence initially'. He broke that, never fixed it and never progressed to our front play. We ended a lowly, humiliating 15th.
Facts.
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:48 - Jul 19 with 828 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:51 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
He was a player that looks like he was always going to score goals at this level. You are either attributing his talent to Martin or you aren’t, If you aren’t then his record prior to coming here is irrelevant. As I said he made an impact immediately and and didn’t appear to be the result of time spent with the manager, who was a defender by trade.
So if we aren’t attributing his talent or his acquisition to Martin, then why are we even talking about it? I think there is some clear connections being made to Piroe and Martin’s management, which I think is fanciful. Piroe doesn’t even like Martin and that’s a fact as one or two on here also know.
As I said, if we were flying and Piroe was feeding off that play then I could see some sort of argument for it. However it was more a case of the team not clicking so Piroe doing it himself and getting us out of scrapes. Under Cooper we were flying and the players he brought in and succeeded with were here due to his development of them previously. It’s chalk and cheese.
There is no chance his remit is simply to develop a player or two and sell on and thats it. There isn’t a lot in this league and we went up with far less resources last time, not to mention the likes of Barnsley and Luton who have given it good cracks in recent years. We have more than enough finances and investment to compete in the top 6, yet it’s clear instead of addressing the managers clear shortcomings there are very clear attempts to subtly dumb down expectations instead.
That will never wash for me. Another failure to compete for a play off spot this season while adopting these senseless tactics then he will need to be given the boot.
You’ve asked if I have faith in Russell Martins system, I’ve told you that as a fan, I don’t as we won’t get consistent results. I’ve also told you that from the owners point of view, a style that gets the best out of the saleable assets (Piroe, Obafemi, Downes) keeps the club out of financial trouble.
100% they would like to go up, but that’s fanciful with an ever decreasing budget. Credit to Cooper and Forest, but look at the Fulham and Bournemouth squads from last season.
I’m not trying to dumb down expectations. I’m not part of the club ownership. I want to get promoted. I don’t think we have much chance of that whoever is in charge, I think last seasons playing style compounds that. If Russell Martins main remit is promotion, then he’s accountable for that.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:52 - Jul 19 with 817 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:06 - Jul 19 by AndyCole
Get your facts straight before spouting such nonsense in the public domain.
Piroe's attitude is and always has been exemplary. He's a happy-go-lucky uber positive, highly ambitious top player.
Martin 'didn't fancy him' very early doors. He didn't think Piroe would 'get' his system. Wasn't 'cut out' for his system. All done in the most shambolic way, stripping the #9 jersey was only a fraction of the humiliation.
The fact that Piroe has delivered despite Martin says everything about Piroe, his dad and Martin.
Let's not forget, Martin said his focus was always the 'defence initially'. He broke that, never fixed it and never progressed to our front play. We ended a lowly, humiliating 15th.
Facts.
With all due respect, shut up.
The main reason I stopped posting on here was it takes up too much of my time, hence I didn’t join the planet swans site. The other reason was you. People mainly come on these sites to talk football, your consistent and insidious trolling really detracts from the site. I’ve no interest in your opinion.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:01 - Jul 19 with 804 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:48 - Jul 19 by jack247
You’ve asked if I have faith in Russell Martins system, I’ve told you that as a fan, I don’t as we won’t get consistent results. I’ve also told you that from the owners point of view, a style that gets the best out of the saleable assets (Piroe, Obafemi, Downes) keeps the club out of financial trouble.
100% they would like to go up, but that’s fanciful with an ever decreasing budget. Credit to Cooper and Forest, but look at the Fulham and Bournemouth squads from last season.
I’m not trying to dumb down expectations. I’m not part of the club ownership. I want to get promoted. I don’t think we have much chance of that whoever is in charge, I think last seasons playing style compounds that. If Russell Martins main remit is promotion, then he’s accountable for that.
But does it get the best out of saleable assets though? Downes playing a lot as CB and Piroe making the best of what little chances he has, I’d say that was a criminal waste of saleable assets. Thankfully they have done enough to increase their values, but I would struggle to attribute that to Martin or his system.
I don’t think promotion is fanciful at all, why is it fanciful? Our budget will always pretty much be in the top half of the league with youth players coming through due to a larger catchment area and better facilities than a lot of the league due to our extended time in the Premier League.
There are teams with far less money than us that make a decent fist of promotion. There aren’t many clubs that will be signing the likes of Joe Allen this season while boasting players such as Obafemi and Piroe acquired for 7 figure sums.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:52 - Jul 19 by jack247
With all due respect, shut up.
The main reason I stopped posting on here was it takes up too much of my time, hence I didn’t join the planet swans site. The other reason was you. People mainly come on these sites to talk football, your consistent and insidious trolling really detracts from the site. I’ve no interest in your opinion.
Pathetic, snowflake.
You left because you were found out and called out. You left under your cloud.
I stated FACT, not opinion. Keep up or keep out.
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:30 - Jul 19 with 770 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:01 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
But does it get the best out of saleable assets though? Downes playing a lot as CB and Piroe making the best of what little chances he has, I’d say that was a criminal waste of saleable assets. Thankfully they have done enough to increase their values, but I would struggle to attribute that to Martin or his system.
I don’t think promotion is fanciful at all, why is it fanciful? Our budget will always pretty much be in the top half of the league with youth players coming through due to a larger catchment area and better facilities than a lot of the league due to our extended time in the Premier League.
There are teams with far less money than us that make a decent fist of promotion. There aren’t many clubs that will be signing the likes of Joe Allen this season while boasting players such as Obafemi and Piroe acquired for 7 figure sums.
I’d say, if you told the board 12 months ago we could sign a midfielder for £1.5m, sell him after a season, clear Ipswich’ sell on clause and be left with £6m profit plus potential add ons, they’d have snapped your hand off.
Likewise, Piroe and Obafemi, signed for similar amounts, would be criminal to accept any less than we did for Downes for either of them, so yes, he’s got credit in the bank for me there. I don’t expect Darling to be here too long if he performs as well as they have.
Piroe had a lot more created for him last season than Ayew did the season before for example. Yes, if he’d stayed up front all season he’d have had more, but Obafemi wouldn’t have had the same impact.
In terms of fanciful, Potter didn’t manage promotion, Cooper didn’t twice although he came close, Martin didn’t get near. It’s going to get harder every year if we’re continually weakening the playing squad to stay afloat.
Haven’t looked this up, but I think the teams that have gone up since we were relegated are Fulham, Bournemouth, Leeds, Brentford, Forest, Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United. You could only really argue Brentford are smaller than us and even then they did it with a striker signed for £5m.
Big difference between having a good go at promotion and achieving it.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:48 - Jul 19 with 745 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:30 - Jul 19 by jack247
I’d say, if you told the board 12 months ago we could sign a midfielder for £1.5m, sell him after a season, clear Ipswich’ sell on clause and be left with £6m profit plus potential add ons, they’d have snapped your hand off.
Likewise, Piroe and Obafemi, signed for similar amounts, would be criminal to accept any less than we did for Downes for either of them, so yes, he’s got credit in the bank for me there. I don’t expect Darling to be here too long if he performs as well as they have.
Piroe had a lot more created for him last season than Ayew did the season before for example. Yes, if he’d stayed up front all season he’d have had more, but Obafemi wouldn’t have had the same impact.
In terms of fanciful, Potter didn’t manage promotion, Cooper didn’t twice although he came close, Martin didn’t get near. It’s going to get harder every year if we’re continually weakening the playing squad to stay afloat.
Haven’t looked this up, but I think the teams that have gone up since we were relegated are Fulham, Bournemouth, Leeds, Brentford, Forest, Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United. You could only really argue Brentford are smaller than us and even then they did it with a striker signed for £5m.
Big difference between having a good go at promotion and achieving it.
Absolutely, but you are attributing that to Russel Martin’s system which is where the issue lies. Downes and Piroe had to battle through being dropped or played out of position, starved of quality chances and often had to let their talent come through as opposed to benefiting from excellent tactical play. They were signed with the expectation they would go up in value, regardless of who was manager.
Potter didn’t get near promotion no. But Cooper was 2 games away in his first season, 1 game away in his second season and clubs with far less of a budget than us have made a decent fist of it. It’s not fanciful in the slightest. I believe we are 9th favourites for the title, you are talking like we are destined for a relegation battle. How anyone say a promotion push is fanciful is beyond me.
You don’t even have to look further than our own club. We achieved promotion from this league on far less budget than we have now and a million pound signing was the thing of amazement. I believe only Scott Sinclair broke that figure and that was only after promotion and the extra triggered.
In the last 2 decades Hull, Burnley, Blackpool, Swansea, QPR, Huddersfield and Brentford have all gone up via the play offs. To suggest Swansea, 9th favourites for the title and a club with multi million pound players (some of which are among the leagues best players) are unable to realistically get promoted is ludicrous.
That can only be an intentional dumbing down of expectation due to the reality of who is in charge and how he sets out the side. There is absolutely no reason we can’t challenge or achieve promotion.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 13:08]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:48 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
Absolutely, but you are attributing that to Russel Martin’s system which is where the issue lies. Downes and Piroe had to battle through being dropped or played out of position, starved of quality chances and often had to let their talent come through as opposed to benefiting from excellent tactical play. They were signed with the expectation they would go up in value, regardless of who was manager.
Potter didn’t get near promotion no. But Cooper was 2 games away in his first season, 1 game away in his second season and clubs with far less of a budget than us have made a decent fist of it. It’s not fanciful in the slightest. I believe we are 9th favourites for the title, you are talking like we are destined for a relegation battle. How anyone say a promotion push is fanciful is beyond me.
You don’t even have to look further than our own club. We achieved promotion from this league on far less budget than we have now and a million pound signing was the thing of amazement. I believe only Scott Sinclair broke that figure and that was only after promotion and the extra triggered.
In the last 2 decades Hull, Burnley, Blackpool, Swansea, QPR, Huddersfield and Brentford have all gone up via the play offs. To suggest Swansea, 9th favourites for the title and a club with multi million pound players (some of which are among the leagues best players) are unable to realistically get promoted is ludicrous.
That can only be an intentional dumbing down of expectation due to the reality of who is in charge and how he sets out the side. There is absolutely no reason we can’t challenge or achieve promotion.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 13:08]
Most Martin supporter fully accept the last line of your post.
"There is absolutely no reason we can’t challenge or achieve promotion." Martin himself would say the same words.
He is expected to take the club into the top 6 and be the "best of the rest" which is the teams without parachutes.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:48 - Jul 19 by Dr_Parnassus
Absolutely, but you are attributing that to Russel Martin’s system which is where the issue lies. Downes and Piroe had to battle through being dropped or played out of position, starved of quality chances and often had to let their talent come through as opposed to benefiting from excellent tactical play. They were signed with the expectation they would go up in value, regardless of who was manager.
Potter didn’t get near promotion no. But Cooper was 2 games away in his first season, 1 game away in his second season and clubs with far less of a budget than us have made a decent fist of it. It’s not fanciful in the slightest. I believe we are 9th favourites for the title, you are talking like we are destined for a relegation battle. How anyone say a promotion push is fanciful is beyond me.
You don’t even have to look further than our own club. We achieved promotion from this league on far less budget than we have now and a million pound signing was the thing of amazement. I believe only Scott Sinclair broke that figure and that was only after promotion and the extra triggered.
In the last 2 decades Hull, Burnley, Blackpool, Swansea, QPR, Huddersfield and Brentford have all gone up via the play offs. To suggest Swansea, 9th favourites for the title and a club with multi million pound players (some of which are among the leagues best players) are unable to realistically get promoted is ludicrous.
That can only be an intentional dumbing down of expectation due to the reality of who is in charge and how he sets out the side. There is absolutely no reason we can’t challenge or achieve promotion.
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 13:08]
All we can really go on is they were £1-£1.5m players 12 months ago. They aren’t any more. How they would have performed and what they now would be valued at under a different manager or system is pure speculation. To say that it’s in spite of Martin is a bit disingenuous, when it’s happened with 3 players in his only season.
I’ve already told you his playing style will hamper any chance we do have. That’s completely on him.
Anyway, I’ve voted no.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:31 - Jul 19 with 723 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:01 - Jul 19 by ReslovenSwan1
Most Martin supporter fully accept the last line of your post.
"There is absolutely no reason we can’t challenge or achieve promotion." Martin himself would say the same words.
He is expected to take the club into the top 6 and be the "best of the rest" which is the teams without parachutes.
Personally, I don’t expect it.
If we go back a year or so, I’m sure we would find posts from Dr P stating that Cooper had overachieved by getting to the playoffs and me agreeing with him.
While we need to sell Crown Jewels every season, in theory at least, it gets harder every season. All things being equal, if we don’t go up this time, whoever starts 2023/24 in charge will have a harder task again.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:08 - Jul 19 with 686 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:09 - Jul 19 by jack247
All we can really go on is they were £1-£1.5m players 12 months ago. They aren’t any more. How they would have performed and what they now would be valued at under a different manager or system is pure speculation. To say that it’s in spite of Martin is a bit disingenuous, when it’s happened with 3 players in his only season.
I’ve already told you his playing style will hamper any chance we do have. That’s completely on him.
Anyway, I’ve voted no.
The other issue is new players coming in will need time to bed in. Even Allen.
I can’t see the swans starting well because of this and the style of play, but believe it will get better after say four or five games.
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
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