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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:02 - Jul 21 by jack247
Prior to last season, I think it was only Celina and Asoro we spent over a million on. Whittaker was around £700/800k? None of them increased in value at all, let alone exponentially.
Until last season, we’ve had the luxury of selling off our academy/U23 starlets. We can’t rely on that anymore. If we need to raise a few million to subsidise the running of the club every season, this seems to be the best way to do it.
The original point I was making, was that as a fan, I didn’t feel this football gave us much chance of promotion. From the owners perspective, speculating £5m and ending up with £7.5m after Ipswich cut and say £25m worth of assets will feel like a lottery win.
The crux of our disagreement is that I don’t think this is season after season, run of the mill transfer business or that we’d be able to do it under the likes of Bob Bradley or whoever.
You can’t really compare it to Cooper as we didn’t have that kind of outlay when he was here. It’s miles ahead of what Potter managed, though in fairness, Dan James was unrecognisable within a season under him.
So you acknowledge that when we have signed young British players for a million or more, they usually increase in value?
The two that didn’t came under Potter. Again, I’ve not seen too much blame thrown his way for those.
Dan James and McBurnie weren’t academy starlets. They were both signed in their late teens from other clubs. Dan James from Hull and McBurnie from Bradford. They were not local youth products, they were purchases.
I understand the point you tried to make. However your point was reliant on it being something Martin uniquely brings as opposed to it being par for the course for signings of that nature. Had the team been responding to his management then there could be some argument that he may have had a hand in their individual seasons - however after such a dire one it’s safe to say they performed despite the circumstances inflicted on us by Russell Martin.
We have recently (last decade or so) been a club that has signed young players and increased their value several times over. Shelvey, Dyer, Sinclair, McBurnie, James, Gylfi, Obafemi, Grimes, Downes, Piroe, Cork, Mawson, Bony… I’m probably missing a heap, this is just off the top of my head.
That’s without the loans we have increased in value that fit that same mould.
The owners will know this isn’t Martin’s doing and something that has happened at this club for many years when the right investment is made into the right type of player, more often than not.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2022 14:16]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:02 - Jul 21 by jack247
Prior to last season, I think it was only Celina and Asoro we spent over a million on. Whittaker was around £700/800k? None of them increased in value at all, let alone exponentially.
Until last season, we’ve had the luxury of selling off our academy/U23 starlets. We can’t rely on that anymore. If we need to raise a few million to subsidise the running of the club every season, this seems to be the best way to do it.
The original point I was making, was that as a fan, I didn’t feel this football gave us much chance of promotion. From the owners perspective, speculating £5m and ending up with £7.5m after Ipswich cut and say £25m worth of assets will feel like a lottery win.
The crux of our disagreement is that I don’t think this is season after season, run of the mill transfer business or that we’d be able to do it under the likes of Bob Bradley or whoever.
You can’t really compare it to Cooper as we didn’t have that kind of outlay when he was here. It’s miles ahead of what Potter managed, though in fairness, Dan James was unrecognisable within a season under him.
Potter established James, Rodon, Grimes and Byers as Championship players. McBurnie was already semi-proven after that half season at Barnsley. Even Connor Roberts was a question mark at the start of that season, with a handful of games above League Two level to his name.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:33 - Jul 21 with 966 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:13 - Jul 21 by jasper_T
Potter established James, Rodon, Grimes and Byers as Championship players. McBurnie was already semi-proven after that half season at Barnsley. Even Connor Roberts was a question mark at the start of that season, with a handful of games above League Two level to his name.
James certainly. Grimes I hadn’t though of, but absolutely agree, he’d been going nowhere on loan before that.
McBurnie was Barnsley’s player of the year I think? Him and Rodon looked comfortable from the off. Connor Roberts, yes, a few games at the end of the relegation season, but I wouldn’t have called him an established player and he certainly improved under Potter.
Not suggesting he did badly with those players at all, just the signings didn’t work out.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:39 - Jul 21 with 954 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:33 - Jul 21 by jack247
James certainly. Grimes I hadn’t though of, but absolutely agree, he’d been going nowhere on loan before that.
McBurnie was Barnsley’s player of the year I think? Him and Rodon looked comfortable from the off. Connor Roberts, yes, a few games at the end of the relegation season, but I wouldn’t have called him an established player and he certainly improved under Potter.
Not suggesting he did badly with those players at all, just the signings didn’t work out.
So if it’s not his fault when they don’t work, how is it a managers credit if they do?
Seems a very one way street.
I bet I could scour the whole two seasons of your posts under the Cooper reign and would not be able to pick out a single instance of you praising him for our permanent players playing well throughout the season.
As I said, the narrative at the time seemed to be that certain players were bailing him out. Which was a bit silly considering we were 4th.
Yet when it’s clearly the case due to being 15th and playing awfully largely down to the way our manager sets us up (as acknowledged even by you)… then these players are playing well simply because of this manager?
This manager who fell out with two of the three. Didn’t want two of the three. Dropped two of the three. Played two of the three out of position hindering their output at times during the season.
Just makes no sense. It’s not consistent or logical.
Can’t buy it.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:13 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
So you acknowledge that when we have signed young British players for a million or more, they usually increase in value?
The two that didn’t came under Potter. Again, I’ve not seen too much blame thrown his way for those.
Dan James and McBurnie weren’t academy starlets. They were both signed in their late teens from other clubs. Dan James from Hull and McBurnie from Bradford. They were not local youth products, they were purchases.
I understand the point you tried to make. However your point was reliant on it being something Martin uniquely brings as opposed to it being par for the course for signings of that nature. Had the team been responding to his management then there could be some argument that he may have had a hand in their individual seasons - however after such a dire one it’s safe to say they performed despite the circumstances inflicted on us by Russell Martin.
We have recently (last decade or so) been a club that has signed young players and increased their value several times over. Shelvey, Dyer, Sinclair, McBurnie, James, Gylfi, Obafemi, Grimes, Downes, Piroe, Cork, Mawson, Bony… I’m probably missing a heap, this is just off the top of my head.
That’s without the loans we have increased in value that fit that same mould.
The owners will know this isn’t Martin’s doing and something that has happened at this club for many years when the right investment is made into the right type of player, more often than not.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2022 14:16]
Well ‘British’ is a new cog in the wheel. I understand that increases value, but it wasn’t part of your question.
You asked for players over a million, as far as I can recall, we had signed two and one close to it. Whittaker may surprise us, but so far we’re 0 from 3, prior to this season, since relegation.
Didn’t Potter take a lot of flak for Asoro at the time? He may not have, he deserved it, just as he deserved praise for developing James etc.
Yes, I know we bought James and McBurnie as youth players. The point is we developed them over a couple of seasons in our under 23s and on loan whilst we were a PL club. We didn’t buy them for £1m and have £10m players 9 months later.
I didn’t say it was unique to Martin at all. I said it was unusual to do that three times in a season and the owners would be delighted by it. I can’t agree it’s par for the course for signings of that nature though. It certainly doesn’t happen more often than not.
The PL era is irrelevant, we’re talking about the club as it is now, with its financial limitations. Sticking £8m on a players value wouldn’t have been so important back then.
Again, loans. I’m not against them at all, but we’re talking about increasing our own players value so we can sell one or two each season.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:58 - Jul 21 with 935 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:39 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
So if it’s not his fault when they don’t work, how is it a managers credit if they do?
Seems a very one way street.
I bet I could scour the whole two seasons of your posts under the Cooper reign and would not be able to pick out a single instance of you praising him for our permanent players playing well throughout the season.
As I said, the narrative at the time seemed to be that certain players were bailing him out. Which was a bit silly considering we were 4th.
Yet when it’s clearly the case due to being 15th and playing awfully largely down to the way our manager sets us up (as acknowledged even by you)… then these players are playing well simply because of this manager?
This manager who fell out with two of the three. Didn’t want two of the three. Dropped two of the three. Played two of the three out of position hindering their output at times during the season.
Just makes no sense. It’s not consistent or logical.
Can’t buy it.
Clarify my last line - not suggesting he did badly with the players he inherited, James, Roberts etc.
The signings didn’t work out. Yes, that’s on Potter. Celina flattered to deceive and looked good at times, but we were very lucky not to lose most of our outlay on him. Asoro was an unquestionable disaster.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:06 - Jul 21 with 928 views
If you say Dan James wasn't a Swans academy product the next step is to say Cabango isn't one either. DJ came down after he turned 16, but couldn't register until the end of the school/football year for admin and tribunal reasons while compensation was determined. Cabango was around 15 when he joined up, not a huge difference in time here, both players poached from lower-grade setups. Both players progressed through the professional phase into u23s football and then to the first team.
McBurnie joining at 19 with previous senior experience was very different. Same with Fulton and Grimes, they were young players bought in to be developed mostly out on loans rather than within the academy building.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:08 - Jul 21 with 925 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:53 - Jul 21 by jack247
Well ‘British’ is a new cog in the wheel. I understand that increases value, but it wasn’t part of your question.
You asked for players over a million, as far as I can recall, we had signed two and one close to it. Whittaker may surprise us, but so far we’re 0 from 3, prior to this season, since relegation.
Didn’t Potter take a lot of flak for Asoro at the time? He may not have, he deserved it, just as he deserved praise for developing James etc.
Yes, I know we bought James and McBurnie as youth players. The point is we developed them over a couple of seasons in our under 23s and on loan whilst we were a PL club. We didn’t buy them for £1m and have £10m players 9 months later.
I didn’t say it was unique to Martin at all. I said it was unusual to do that three times in a season and the owners would be delighted by it. I can’t agree it’s par for the course for signings of that nature though. It certainly doesn’t happen more often than not.
The PL era is irrelevant, we’re talking about the club as it is now, with its financial limitations. Sticking £8m on a players value wouldn’t have been so important back then.
Again, loans. I’m not against them at all, but we’re talking about increasing our own players value so we can sell one or two each season.
Where is it new? It was my very first point I made.
Young, British players bought for a decent 7 figure whack. They prices tend to go up with the levels they prove themselves at. That will be our main target purchase.
But it doesn’t necessarily have to be British if they also fit that mould. But as you can see from my list, they will tend to be British as they attract a premium.
As for your next point - you have lost me now.
I am telling you that this isn’t unique to Martin, usually when we have signed good young players for a million or more they have gone on to increase their value. I’ve just reeled off a list of about 15 off the top of my head and could top that up to 20+ with loan players we have done it for.
Since relegation (not sure why that’s relevant though) we have sold James, Rodon. McBurnie, Downes, Mawson - all for significant amounts. We haven’t sold Piroe and we haven’t sold Obafemi. If we are talking about increases then the scope increases further and we can add Grimes and Cabango among a heap of others.
It’s not unusual and it’s not unique.
You are missing the point regarding the loans. You are talking about the ability to increase players value. You are singling Martin out for praise as if it’s something he has specifically done rather than it being a normal occurrence.
These loans all increased in value in the season they were with us. Dramatically. Whether we benefited or not is irrelevant, as it shows that this sort of player increases in value if they have a decent season regardless of manager.
The more players you sign in that mould the more likely you will have players that dramatically increase in value. Last season we had money after the CLN and we went out and bought them, with the sole intention of them increasing in value.
I think you are losing your own point here.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:06 - Jul 21 by jasper_T
If you say Dan James wasn't a Swans academy product the next step is to say Cabango isn't one either. DJ came down after he turned 16, but couldn't register until the end of the school/football year for admin and tribunal reasons while compensation was determined. Cabango was around 15 when he joined up, not a huge difference in time here, both players poached from lower-grade setups. Both players progressed through the professional phase into u23s football and then to the first team.
McBurnie joining at 19 with previous senior experience was very different. Same with Fulton and Grimes, they were young players bought in to be developed mostly out on loans rather than within the academy building.
Cabango is touch and go, but I would say he was a product of our academy - just. He was 14/15 and within our catchment area.
Dan Janes most certainly not, McBurnie absolutely certainly not.
Dan James was a product of our youth purchase tactic at the time, as opposed to a youth product.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Back to the point at hand, as everyone seems to have skirted over this question.
How is Martin deserving of praise for Piroes ability? And “picking him” isn’t a valid answer.
So let’s just go through it again. Didn’t want him initially, dropped him, fell out with him and his dad, stripped him of the 9 shirt… decided he had to play him as we were awful up front. He banged them in as he was expected to do by Cooper who brought him in… and has been bailing him out ever since with what most now seem to recognise is a style that is hampering the team.
So where does he deserve this praise exactly?
Or should we be praising Piroe for his ability to drag the side through matches with individual pieces of brilliance?
It’s this pathetic excuse making and pretence that is poisoning the club in my opinion. Enabling mediocrity and allowing sub par things to fester by feeding it with delusion instead of facing up to reality.
We have danced around the houses so much to enable this history has been rewritten along the way and Leon Britton came to us as a 20 year old Londoner over everyone else because he loved the club so much he spent half a season with.
Of course that was created simply because it couldn’t be conceded that good players can be good players without being in demand by every club in the league.
Piroe was a class act and he showed it from minute 1, it was not something Martin created. Downes was tipped for the Premier League before he came and fulfilled his trajectory, Obafemi was signed as a Premier League player with 30 top flight appearances.
Let’s stop pretending shall we.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2022 15:23]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:12 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Cabango is touch and go, but I would say he was a product of our academy - just. He was 14/15 and within our catchment area.
Dan Janes most certainly not, McBurnie absolutely certainly not.
Dan James was a product of our youth purchase tactic at the time, as opposed to a youth product.
surely though we should focus on players who have come through the sytewm post 16
All acadamies have lots of players in th re under 16 categories but its nit until thsat POst 16 yr the real work and "true" potential starts to be worked on.
SO Dan James could be included.
There are lots of players we cast out not offering Apprentice terms at 16 who moved on to other clubs had they made it at those clubs they would be hailed as products of that clubs acadamey despite only joining it at 16 as thats really when "pro footballers" start
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian
surely though we should focus on players who have come through the sytewm post 16
All acadamies have lots of players in th re under 16 categories but its nit until thsat POst 16 yr the real work and "true" potential starts to be worked on.
SO Dan James could be included.
There are lots of players we cast out not offering Apprentice terms at 16 who moved on to other clubs had they made it at those clubs they would be hailed as products of that clubs acadamey despite only joining it at 16 as thats really when "pro footballers" start
Included for what purpose? What is the discussion?
We made a financial outlay on Dan James with a view for him to increase in value. He wasn’t just someone who came through the academy, it would be misrepresenting it.
I’d say 15 and under can be considered an academy product. It’s pretty rare you get 15 year olds at senior level.
When you get into signing other clubs 16 and 17 year olds for cash, then it’s a bit of a stretch to say they are academy products. 16 and 17 is not rare when it comes to being of senior age.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:08 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
Where is it new? It was my very first point I made.
Young, British players bought for a decent 7 figure whack. They prices tend to go up with the levels they prove themselves at. That will be our main target purchase.
But it doesn’t necessarily have to be British if they also fit that mould. But as you can see from my list, they will tend to be British as they attract a premium.
As for your next point - you have lost me now.
I am telling you that this isn’t unique to Martin, usually when we have signed good young players for a million or more they have gone on to increase their value. I’ve just reeled off a list of about 15 off the top of my head and could top that up to 20+ with loan players we have done it for.
Since relegation (not sure why that’s relevant though) we have sold James, Rodon. McBurnie, Downes, Mawson - all for significant amounts. We haven’t sold Piroe and we haven’t sold Obafemi. If we are talking about increases then the scope increases further and we can add Grimes and Cabango among a heap of others.
It’s not unusual and it’s not unique.
You are missing the point regarding the loans. You are talking about the ability to increase players value. You are singling Martin out for praise as if it’s something he has specifically done rather than it being a normal occurrence.
These loans all increased in value in the season they were with us. Dramatically. Whether we benefited or not is irrelevant, as it shows that this sort of player increases in value if they have a decent season regardless of manager.
The more players you sign in that mould the more likely you will have players that dramatically increase in value. Last season we had money after the CLN and we went out and bought them, with the sole intention of them increasing in value.
I think you are losing your own point here.
You specifically asked me to name the players we have signed, since relegation, for £1m+ whose values hadn’t increased. Didn’t mention nationality. If I haven’t missed any, we had signed two before this season, neither had increased in value.
I’m not talking about signing Jamal Lowe for £800k and selling him for £1.5m. We’d have to do that with 5 or 6 players a season to keep thr club ticking over. I’m talking the kind of profit we made on Downes, as you well know. Yes Piroe and Obafemi are still here, but both are saleable and I think we’d both be underwhelmed if either went for less than. Downes did.
Since relegation, we’ve needed to do it, because the clubs expenditure outweighs its income without decent sales.
We’ve got away with it until recently, because we’ve had a conveyor belt of talent from our under 23s progressing to the first team and then being sold on. How do we plug the gap going forward?
I’m not suggesting it’s unique. I’m suggesting that value increase that dramatic, three times in a season, is unusual and the owners will be delighted by it.
I think you seem to be arguing that £1.5m players increase in value for often than not. Im arguing that they don’t become £9m players the same season more often than not.
Adding value to other clubs players is great, whether we benefited or not is certainly relevant. It’s exactly what our owners are trying to do.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:45 - Jul 21 with 877 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:29 - Jul 21 by jack247
You specifically asked me to name the players we have signed, since relegation, for £1m+ whose values hadn’t increased. Didn’t mention nationality. If I haven’t missed any, we had signed two before this season, neither had increased in value.
I’m not talking about signing Jamal Lowe for £800k and selling him for £1.5m. We’d have to do that with 5 or 6 players a season to keep thr club ticking over. I’m talking the kind of profit we made on Downes, as you well know. Yes Piroe and Obafemi are still here, but both are saleable and I think we’d both be underwhelmed if either went for less than. Downes did.
Since relegation, we’ve needed to do it, because the clubs expenditure outweighs its income without decent sales.
We’ve got away with it until recently, because we’ve had a conveyor belt of talent from our under 23s progressing to the first team and then being sold on. How do we plug the gap going forward?
I’m not suggesting it’s unique. I’m suggesting that value increase that dramatic, three times in a season, is unusual and the owners will be delighted by it.
I think you seem to be arguing that £1.5m players increase in value for often than not. Im arguing that they don’t become £9m players the same season more often than not.
Adding value to other clubs players is great, whether we benefited or not is certainly relevant. It’s exactly what our owners are trying to do.
I did, and you were only able to name two in 4 seasons.
Yet Piroe, Downes, Obafemi have all increased. So that’s 3 increases and 2 non increases. That’s a 60% success rate since relegation.
If you think it’s manager specific then we must criticise Potter for his lack of ability to increase young players values. Which is not something I’ve ever heard levelled at him and I’m sure not something you have ever said.
We then look at those players in that mould that we have had in recent times who’s value has increased and the list becomes an essay. It’s that prevalent.
You are again missing the point with regards to the loans. Your initial point was the owners may be happy with Martin despite such woeful results because it is your belief that it is down to him why some players have increased in value… as opposed to their own talent and the very reason why we bought them in the first place.
Well if that’s the case, that ability to increase young players value will be an in demand trait. Cooper did it with the loan players, showing the owners he can do that if given resources to acquire them. Whether it benefited us is completely irrelevant to the demonstration of that.
Like someone scoring 100 goals a season for another club. That is something that would interest every club on the planet, that skillset is incredible. Whether it benefited those clubs that season or not is irrelevant, we are discussing the ability to do it and if a manager possesses it. According to you Cooper showed he could do it more than most…. Yet he still wasn’t backed.
So logic suggests that the people in charge are fully aware that if they sign the right players they will likely increase in value as has been shown over the last 2 decades, regardless of manager.
My argument is simple. Russell Martin’s awful management had nothing to do with Piroe scoring goals and had nothing to do with Flynn Downes proving he was the player many knew he was before he came to us.
Players increase in value, that’s football. Especially young talented British ones.
It’s not a shock.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:45 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
I did, and you were only able to name two in 4 seasons.
Yet Piroe, Downes, Obafemi have all increased. So that’s 3 increases and 2 non increases. That’s a 60% success rate since relegation.
If you think it’s manager specific then we must criticise Potter for his lack of ability to increase young players values. Which is not something I’ve ever heard levelled at him and I’m sure not something you have ever said.
We then look at those players in that mould that we have had in recent times who’s value has increased and the list becomes an essay. It’s that prevalent.
You are again missing the point with regards to the loans. Your initial point was the owners may be happy with Martin despite such woeful results because it is your belief that it is down to him why some players have increased in value… as opposed to their own talent and the very reason why we bought them in the first place.
Well if that’s the case, that ability to increase young players value will be an in demand trait. Cooper did it with the loan players, showing the owners he can do that if given resources to acquire them. Whether it benefited us is completely irrelevant to the demonstration of that.
Like someone scoring 100 goals a season for another club. That is something that would interest every club on the planet, that skillset is incredible. Whether it benefited those clubs that season or not is irrelevant, we are discussing the ability to do it and if a manager possesses it. According to you Cooper showed he could do it more than most…. Yet he still wasn’t backed.
So logic suggests that the people in charge are fully aware that if they sign the right players they will likely increase in value as has been shown over the last 2 decades, regardless of manager.
My argument is simple. Russell Martin’s awful management had nothing to do with Piroe scoring goals and had nothing to do with Flynn Downes proving he was the player many knew he was before he came to us.
Players increase in value, that’s football. Especially young talented British ones.
It’s not a shock.
Exactly. 0% increased before last season. 100% increased last season. Hence me saying it was unusual and the owners would be delighted.
Why would we criticise Potter for that when he has done so with James, Grimes, Roberts etc? I think we more or less got our money back on Celina and he wasn’t in Coopers plans. No real criticism of either manager there. Asoro cost us money we couldn’t afford to lose and that’s absolutely Potter to blame.
I think you’re trying to illustrate that Cooper could have done the same thing with the sane players because he increased Guehi, Gallagher and Brewsters value. He may well have been able to. I’ve said it was unusual and the owners would be delighted. I haven’t said it was unique or Cooper wouldn’t have been able to do it.
If we go through the next 3 or 4 seasons, under whichever manager, spending £5m each pre season and turning those players into £35m worth of talent, then I’ll agree with you. It’s easy to exponentially increase their value.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 17:24 - Jul 21 with 808 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:03 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
In what way is it down to Martin then?
Give us some examples of why Piroe’s ability he showed is down to Martin.
I’m all ears.
A player can have a brilliant natural set of skills, but unless he has the right attitude ( in the case of Piroe and Obafemi earlier last season ) and in the case of all three at previous clubs, plus of course if the manager chooses not to play them, then they would not succeed. Common sense, yet you and other refuse to give RM any praise
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 17:24 - Jul 21 by STID2017
A player can have a brilliant natural set of skills, but unless he has the right attitude ( in the case of Piroe and Obafemi earlier last season ) and in the case of all three at previous clubs, plus of course if the manager chooses not to play them, then they would not succeed. Common sense, yet you and other refuse to give RM any praise
I will give him praise when it’s warranted. I won’t be doing so frivolously by pretending that Martin created Piroe and Obafemi, players he didn’t want and reluctantly played.
But by all means if that’s the only shred of comfort you can take from the man, keep on presenting by all means.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 16:04 - Jul 21 by jack247
Exactly. 0% increased before last season. 100% increased last season. Hence me saying it was unusual and the owners would be delighted.
Why would we criticise Potter for that when he has done so with James, Grimes, Roberts etc? I think we more or less got our money back on Celina and he wasn’t in Coopers plans. No real criticism of either manager there. Asoro cost us money we couldn’t afford to lose and that’s absolutely Potter to blame.
I think you’re trying to illustrate that Cooper could have done the same thing with the sane players because he increased Guehi, Gallagher and Brewsters value. He may well have been able to. I’ve said it was unusual and the owners would be delighted. I haven’t said it was unique or Cooper wouldn’t have been able to do it.
If we go through the next 3 or 4 seasons, under whichever manager, spending £5m each pre season and turning those players into £35m worth of talent, then I’ll agree with you. It’s easy to exponentially increase their value.
0% increased because the two players in question were the likes of Osoro.
Are you suggesting that if Osoro was under Martin he would probably become a £10m player too?
If not, then your point is moot again, and the answer is of course he wouldn’t become a £10m player because he has very limited ability and it was terrible recruitment.
I’m saying if we keep buying the right players then of course they will increase in value, like they have consistently and continuously for the past 2 decades at this club.
You seem to only be counting the last 4 seasons (2 of which we spent hardly anything) and discounting the likes of James, McBurnie and Mawson who were all sold since relegation for massive mark ups from their purchase prices.
It’s also not including the reams of loans we have had that have come here worth very little only to end up being worth £20m+.
You are losing your own point here.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 14:39 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
So if it’s not his fault when they don’t work, how is it a managers credit if they do?
Seems a very one way street.
I bet I could scour the whole two seasons of your posts under the Cooper reign and would not be able to pick out a single instance of you praising him for our permanent players playing well throughout the season.
As I said, the narrative at the time seemed to be that certain players were bailing him out. Which was a bit silly considering we were 4th.
Yet when it’s clearly the case due to being 15th and playing awfully largely down to the way our manager sets us up (as acknowledged even by you)… then these players are playing well simply because of this manager?
This manager who fell out with two of the three. Didn’t want two of the three. Dropped two of the three. Played two of the three out of position hindering their output at times during the season.
Just makes no sense. It’s not consistent or logical.
Can’t buy it.
Potters signing and bedding in period cost Swansea promotion. He was handed £7m transfer budget and if it was spent wisely would have cemented a very strong promotion challenge.
The like of Robert Dickie, Mbemo £5m , Toney, were all available and he inherited James Roberts, McBurnie Byers and Rodon.
Celina, John , Mckay and Asoro £7m money wasted. Potter / Mc Cauley wasted the budget and then cut and ran. He did apologise to the fans which is more than Cooper did.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:58 - Jul 22 by ReslovenSwan1
Potters signing and bedding in period cost Swansea promotion. He was handed £7m transfer budget and if it was spent wisely would have cemented a very strong promotion challenge.
The like of Robert Dickie, Mbemo £5m , Toney, were all available and he inherited James Roberts, McBurnie Byers and Rodon.
Celina, John , Mckay and Asoro £7m money wasted. Potter / Mc Cauley wasted the budget and then cut and ran. He did apologise to the fans which is more than Cooper did.
That’s because Potter underachieved, Cooper overachieved.
Nothing to apologise for.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Any of the Yes crew offered rationale for voting Yes ?
The core of the flock of sheeple has the OP on ignore, unable to read the initial post - maybe that's why we still have no rationale. Yet they were able to vote. ?
(so good, posted twice)
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
0
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:38 - Jul 23 with 580 views
Shame the donkey posted in the wrong thread then deleted it. BTW strange why donkey is deemed offensive by Dr P and AC yet sheepie and twp isn't ? Can't make it up
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:38 - Jul 23 by STID2017
Shame the donkey posted in the wrong thread then deleted it. BTW strange why donkey is deemed offensive by Dr P and AC yet sheepie and twp isn't ? Can't make it up
Why would donkey be offensive?
You don’t half talk nonsense.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:51 - Jul 23 by AndyCole
Back on topic.
Any of the Yes crew offered rationale for voting Yes ?
The core of the flock of sheeple has the OP on ignore, unable to read the initial post - maybe that's why we still have no rationale. Yet they were able to vote. ?
(so good, posted twice)
(posted thrice).......
Any of the stupid, anonymous 'Yes' camp coughed up their rationale yet ?
Twp is as twp does.
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
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