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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:01 - Jul 20 by jack247
Marc Guehi was an England under 21 international before he came here. You may not have heard of him, that doesn’t make him an unknown. So was Conor Gallagher.
Of course not every player we sign in that bracket works out. There’s speculation involved. If you’re selling Downes for that kind of profit, you can stomach losing value on the odd player.
If we brought in Bob Bradley, would Congreve or Darlings value increase? I doubt it if we played like we did last time he was here. I highly doubt anyones value increased in the 10 games or so he was in charge. I think both values will increase significantly under Martin.
Paraphrasing, but you said that getting Ayew off the books afforded Martin the opportunity to sign some permanent players (which I agree with). I was simply pointing out that Cooper also had that opportunity (think we signed Piroe while he was still here) and chose to walk away. That’s not comparing managerial abilities, it’s stating a fact.
I haven’t been reading much on here lately, if Cooper was sacked, it’s certainly news to me.
I’m going to leave it there. I agree with you that if we persist with last seasons playing style it will hamper us significantly.
You won’t convince me that Martin doesn’t deserve any credit for improving squad value. I also believe there has been more of a shift towards that approach since Ayew came off the wage bill and we sold off most of our top academy graduates.
I won’t convince you he deserves credit for anything at all.
An unknown in league football, of course he was. Rhys Williams was an England U-21 international too but had many Premier League games and Champions League games under his belt.
No matter how you want to dress it up, Williams was far more an elite loan at the time than anything Cooper brought in. Not even up for debate.
Absolutely, there is losses on some, profits on others. That has been the case every single season, but to attribute every success and failure to the manager is just nonsense. You can increase your stock despite the failings of the manager, you can decrease your stock under a fantastic manager - this is football.
Yep absolutely I think their value would increase, they are young and British. If they have half decent seasons then their stock will increase. But if a player plays well it isn’t simply down to a manager, that’s a very basic way of looking at things. Freestone was a beast for us in the lower leagues often despite managerial ineptitude, he was the last line of defence and often bailed out the managers failings.
Piroe did that last season. I don’t see Piroe and his Dad lining up to follow Martin to his next destination. There is a reason for that.
Cooper wasn’t wanted by the ownership according to many and he certainly wasn’t supported when he needed it. Trust was broken and was stopped from going to bigger clubs due to ridiculous compensation demands. Cooper owed us nothing and was entirely within his rights to walk after such a shambolic January and handling of the interest by Fulham and Palace.
There has been no shift. We have loaned in similar sort of players under Martin as we did under Cooper, the difference being we now have money to spend on permanent signings where as under Cooper we didn’t.
To suggest Martin is responsible for Piroes talent is ludicrous. If Piroe had his way Martin would be gone tomorrow.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:05 - Jul 20 by jack247
So since we’ve been in the Championship, 3 academy graduates who were pretty much Championship ready, Lowe (who we bought for £800k and sold for £1.5m, 4 top prospects from PL teams and the 3 last season.
Edit.
Actually am going to log out now. Be interesting to see if we’re having a similar conversation about the likes of Darling this time next year
[Post edited 20 Jul 2022 12:08]
Dan James and Ollie McBurnie weren’t academy graduates.
Dan James was signed from Hull for around 300k all up and sold for £15m. His talent would always see that be the case regardless of who was manager, his pace wasn’t taught. That’s where his value was.
Ollie McBurnie was signed for us as a 19 year old from Bradford who got around £3m for him all up, and sold him for £20m. He performed everywhere he went, there was no one manager that could be credited for his talent. His value was in his finishing which I’m sure wasn’t taught to him by a Swansea manager.
Lowe doubled in value after a single season and we both agree he was undersold. That could be attributed to Cooper as he actively changed his position, but we again took advantage of Wigan’s financial predicament to ensure that even an average season would see a higher resale value.
You are making it sound like players increasing in value is something that is exceedingly rare that Martin is delivering due to his wonderful management… as opposed to good recruitment buying young talented players at good prices and selling them on as intended despite a horrendous season.
Our recent history is literally built on buying the right players at the right prices and them increasing in value. This is not something new and is something the club factors into its daily running, they aren’t shocks to anyone when these players increase in value, it’s the reason they were signed due to the belief they have the ability to increase their own values by their contributions.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 12:25 - Jul 20 by Dr_Parnassus
An unknown in league football, of course he was. Rhys Williams was an England U-21 international too but had many Premier League games and Champions League games under his belt.
No matter how you want to dress it up, Williams was far more an elite loan at the time than anything Cooper brought in. Not even up for debate.
Absolutely, there is losses on some, profits on others. That has been the case every single season, but to attribute every success and failure to the manager is just nonsense. You can increase your stock despite the failings of the manager, you can decrease your stock under a fantastic manager - this is football.
Yep absolutely I think their value would increase, they are young and British. If they have half decent seasons then their stock will increase. But if a player plays well it isn’t simply down to a manager, that’s a very basic way of looking at things. Freestone was a beast for us in the lower leagues often despite managerial ineptitude, he was the last line of defence and often bailed out the managers failings.
Piroe did that last season. I don’t see Piroe and his Dad lining up to follow Martin to his next destination. There is a reason for that.
Cooper wasn’t wanted by the ownership according to many and he certainly wasn’t supported when he needed it. Trust was broken and was stopped from going to bigger clubs due to ridiculous compensation demands. Cooper owed us nothing and was entirely within his rights to walk after such a shambolic January and handling of the interest by Fulham and Palace.
There has been no shift. We have loaned in similar sort of players under Martin as we did under Cooper, the difference being we now have money to spend on permanent signings where as under Cooper we didn’t.
To suggest Martin is responsible for Piroes talent is ludicrous. If Piroe had his way Martin would be gone tomorrow.
You seem to be a mind reader. Martin has been a godsend for Piroe. He nad Obafemi are playing the best football of their young careers. Piroe's talent is obvious and Martin has helped him develop and end his personal career stagnation. He had a boot up the backside early doors. No one likes those but if you are rational you will not carry a grudge.
If matters not a jot whether they like Martin or not. Both players were nobodies when they came and now both are linked to the PL and huge wages. They own Martin a debt of gratitude. They however are footballers and loyalty and gratitude are probably alien concepts. "Give m the money " is the concept they understand.
Dan Jame s showed no gratitude to Huw Jenkins who effectively steered / earned young James to a major pay hike to £64,000 per week from the £15,000 a week Leeds probably offered him. Not a word of thanks just a whinge or two. "Its about me" see butt.
Ellite Williams was better than Guehi? I do not think so. Rhys could very soon be following ex Welsh Liverpool prospect Rhys Jones another 6 ft 5 inch giant down the leagues.
I suspect Martin is a builder of clubs and we will improve the overall stock of the club. Whether the team is tight and tough enough to live at the top of the Championship is nother matter. The 3-0 and 4-1 v AFCB and Reading showed a lack of grit and determination o hang on to the 3 points. Laudrup while playing the beautiful game also knew how to shut up shop.
He has a feel of a young Tony Mowbray. Blackburn played some lovely stuff under TM, had some great wins and developed some real talent but never once looked like top 6. They also got some savage beatings on occasions from Fulham and others.
Cooper did some bad dealings Peterson did not play. Peterson was banging Winter's door down to leave and get away from Cooper. With Peterson only having played 17 minutes v Newport Winter made the call with the Germans putting down a few hundreds of thousands for an unhappy player desperate to leave and unable to get in the team. Well done Winter a man who will make decisions. Had Cooper had is way he might have found the bench one player short asking "Where's Kris" and being told by Winter. "His head is not in the right place" (another one)
Fulton is overpaid and Bennett is horribly overpaid. He gave big contract to two players nobody else wants even at a discount. Cooper complained about no no 9 but did little to develop Goykeres who was given to him by Scott. He has out performed Keinan Davis who Cooper wanted.
Cooper and NF was a marriage made in heaven. A strong squad underperforming horribly being explained the meaning of "non negotiables" . Lolley, Freeman, Samba Portuguese defender the French guy have all failed on the NNs just like McKay and Declan John. Djed Spence and Brennan Johnson flew have express pace Cooper never had at Swansea.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:13 - Jul 20 by ReslovenSwan1
You seem to be a mind reader. Martin has been a godsend for Piroe. He nad Obafemi are playing the best football of their young careers. Piroe's talent is obvious and Martin has helped him develop and end his personal career stagnation. He had a boot up the backside early doors. No one likes those but if you are rational you will not carry a grudge.
If matters not a jot whether they like Martin or not. Both players were nobodies when they came and now both are linked to the PL and huge wages. They own Martin a debt of gratitude. They however are footballers and loyalty and gratitude are probably alien concepts. "Give m the money " is the concept they understand.
Dan Jame s showed no gratitude to Huw Jenkins who effectively steered / earned young James to a major pay hike to £64,000 per week from the £15,000 a week Leeds probably offered him. Not a word of thanks just a whinge or two. "Its about me" see butt.
Ellite Williams was better than Guehi? I do not think so. Rhys could very soon be following ex Welsh Liverpool prospect Rhys Jones another 6 ft 5 inch giant down the leagues.
I suspect Martin is a builder of clubs and we will improve the overall stock of the club. Whether the team is tight and tough enough to live at the top of the Championship is nother matter. The 3-0 and 4-1 v AFCB and Reading showed a lack of grit and determination o hang on to the 3 points. Laudrup while playing the beautiful game also knew how to shut up shop.
He has a feel of a young Tony Mowbray. Blackburn played some lovely stuff under TM, had some great wins and developed some real talent but never once looked like top 6. They also got some savage beatings on occasions from Fulham and others.
Cooper did some bad dealings Peterson did not play. Peterson was banging Winter's door down to leave and get away from Cooper. With Peterson only having played 17 minutes v Newport Winter made the call with the Germans putting down a few hundreds of thousands for an unhappy player desperate to leave and unable to get in the team. Well done Winter a man who will make decisions. Had Cooper had is way he might have found the bench one player short asking "Where's Kris" and being told by Winter. "His head is not in the right place" (another one)
Fulton is overpaid and Bennett is horribly overpaid. He gave big contract to two players nobody else wants even at a discount. Cooper complained about no no 9 but did little to develop Goykeres who was given to him by Scott. He has out performed Keinan Davis who Cooper wanted.
Cooper and NF was a marriage made in heaven. A strong squad underperforming horribly being explained the meaning of "non negotiables" . Lolley, Freeman, Samba Portuguese defender the French guy have all failed on the NNs just like McKay and Declan John. Djed Spence and Brennan Johnson flew have express pace Cooper never had at Swansea.
You so miss the point
HOw many Champions League and PL appearances had Geuhi made before turning up here? Remember until Cooper switched to 5 at the back Geuhi had been much critiscised yet left us a PL player Williams arrived with Champions League and PL minutes under his belt but left us having gone backwards....played out of position by his manager....himself an ex defender who it seems cannot get his team to defend....yet has turned two strikers into hot property?
Both Obafemi and Piroe had been identified for their ability at "bargain" cost......shame Obafemi got injured in the January window it would have been interesting to see his development under another Manager
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:13 - Jul 20 by ReslovenSwan1
You seem to be a mind reader. Martin has been a godsend for Piroe. He nad Obafemi are playing the best football of their young careers. Piroe's talent is obvious and Martin has helped him develop and end his personal career stagnation. He had a boot up the backside early doors. No one likes those but if you are rational you will not carry a grudge.
If matters not a jot whether they like Martin or not. Both players were nobodies when they came and now both are linked to the PL and huge wages. They own Martin a debt of gratitude. They however are footballers and loyalty and gratitude are probably alien concepts. "Give m the money " is the concept they understand.
Dan Jame s showed no gratitude to Huw Jenkins who effectively steered / earned young James to a major pay hike to £64,000 per week from the £15,000 a week Leeds probably offered him. Not a word of thanks just a whinge or two. "Its about me" see butt.
Ellite Williams was better than Guehi? I do not think so. Rhys could very soon be following ex Welsh Liverpool prospect Rhys Jones another 6 ft 5 inch giant down the leagues.
I suspect Martin is a builder of clubs and we will improve the overall stock of the club. Whether the team is tight and tough enough to live at the top of the Championship is nother matter. The 3-0 and 4-1 v AFCB and Reading showed a lack of grit and determination o hang on to the 3 points. Laudrup while playing the beautiful game also knew how to shut up shop.
He has a feel of a young Tony Mowbray. Blackburn played some lovely stuff under TM, had some great wins and developed some real talent but never once looked like top 6. They also got some savage beatings on occasions from Fulham and others.
Cooper did some bad dealings Peterson did not play. Peterson was banging Winter's door down to leave and get away from Cooper. With Peterson only having played 17 minutes v Newport Winter made the call with the Germans putting down a few hundreds of thousands for an unhappy player desperate to leave and unable to get in the team. Well done Winter a man who will make decisions. Had Cooper had is way he might have found the bench one player short asking "Where's Kris" and being told by Winter. "His head is not in the right place" (another one)
Fulton is overpaid and Bennett is horribly overpaid. He gave big contract to two players nobody else wants even at a discount. Cooper complained about no no 9 but did little to develop Goykeres who was given to him by Scott. He has out performed Keinan Davis who Cooper wanted.
Cooper and NF was a marriage made in heaven. A strong squad underperforming horribly being explained the meaning of "non negotiables" . Lolley, Freeman, Samba Portuguese defender the French guy have all failed on the NNs just like McKay and Declan John. Djed Spence and Brennan Johnson flew have express pace Cooper never had at Swansea.
Martin has been a what? Couldn’t read any more. I’ve chocked on my chirozo
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:28 - Jul 20 by vetchonian
You so miss the point
HOw many Champions League and PL appearances had Geuhi made before turning up here? Remember until Cooper switched to 5 at the back Geuhi had been much critiscised yet left us a PL player Williams arrived with Champions League and PL minutes under his belt but left us having gone backwards....played out of position by his manager....himself an ex defender who it seems cannot get his team to defend....yet has turned two strikers into hot property?
Both Obafemi and Piroe had been identified for their ability at "bargain" cost......shame Obafemi got injured in the January window it would have been interesting to see his development under another Manager
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:13 - Jul 20 by ReslovenSwan1
You seem to be a mind reader. Martin has been a godsend for Piroe. He nad Obafemi are playing the best football of their young careers. Piroe's talent is obvious and Martin has helped him develop and end his personal career stagnation. He had a boot up the backside early doors. No one likes those but if you are rational you will not carry a grudge.
If matters not a jot whether they like Martin or not. Both players were nobodies when they came and now both are linked to the PL and huge wages. They own Martin a debt of gratitude. They however are footballers and loyalty and gratitude are probably alien concepts. "Give m the money " is the concept they understand.
Dan Jame s showed no gratitude to Huw Jenkins who effectively steered / earned young James to a major pay hike to £64,000 per week from the £15,000 a week Leeds probably offered him. Not a word of thanks just a whinge or two. "Its about me" see butt.
Ellite Williams was better than Guehi? I do not think so. Rhys could very soon be following ex Welsh Liverpool prospect Rhys Jones another 6 ft 5 inch giant down the leagues.
I suspect Martin is a builder of clubs and we will improve the overall stock of the club. Whether the team is tight and tough enough to live at the top of the Championship is nother matter. The 3-0 and 4-1 v AFCB and Reading showed a lack of grit and determination o hang on to the 3 points. Laudrup while playing the beautiful game also knew how to shut up shop.
He has a feel of a young Tony Mowbray. Blackburn played some lovely stuff under TM, had some great wins and developed some real talent but never once looked like top 6. They also got some savage beatings on occasions from Fulham and others.
Cooper did some bad dealings Peterson did not play. Peterson was banging Winter's door down to leave and get away from Cooper. With Peterson only having played 17 minutes v Newport Winter made the call with the Germans putting down a few hundreds of thousands for an unhappy player desperate to leave and unable to get in the team. Well done Winter a man who will make decisions. Had Cooper had is way he might have found the bench one player short asking "Where's Kris" and being told by Winter. "His head is not in the right place" (another one)
Fulton is overpaid and Bennett is horribly overpaid. He gave big contract to two players nobody else wants even at a discount. Cooper complained about no no 9 but did little to develop Goykeres who was given to him by Scott. He has out performed Keinan Davis who Cooper wanted.
Cooper and NF was a marriage made in heaven. A strong squad underperforming horribly being explained the meaning of "non negotiables" . Lolley, Freeman, Samba Portuguese defender the French guy have all failed on the NNs just like McKay and Declan John. Djed Spence and Brennan Johnson flew have express pace Cooper never had at Swansea.
That’s just a load of revisionist nonsense again though isn’t it, let’s be honest.
1) I am not a mind reader no, but know this for a fact due to someone who knows both Piroe and his Dad. Martin has not been a Godsend at all, don’t be so ludicrous. Obafemi and Piroe are having the benefit of a run in a football league side for the first time in their careers, that’s why they are performing. That is why they were brought to the club (not by Martin).
2) What do you mean they were nobodies and now being linked to the PL? They were both linked to far bigger clubs than us before they came here. They just never had a run is a side, we were happy to give them one (after initial grumbling from Martin).
3) You are spectacularly missing the point regarding Williams. He was far more elite than Guehi when we loaned him yes. You are using hindsight to see how each worked out, that’s not how it works. Williams was the far more experienced, accomplished and valuable player when we brought him in than anything Cooper brought in AT THE TIME.
4) You said Forest had a similar side in quality to us when Cooper took over. So much so you were saying that Martin should get a higher points per game ratio than Forest and finish above them. You even massaged the figures and have Martin a massive leg up - which still spectacularly failed.
Now you say it was a strong side and they were underperforming. Ironic that their star striker was a 34 year older journeyman who is now a free transfer and they have had to spend in the region of 60m to replace many of the players clearly not able to make the step up.
It’s simply revisionism.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 21:45 - Jul 20 by Dr_Parnassus
That’s just a load of revisionist nonsense again though isn’t it, let’s be honest.
1) I am not a mind reader no, but know this for a fact due to someone who knows both Piroe and his Dad. Martin has not been a Godsend at all, don’t be so ludicrous. Obafemi and Piroe are having the benefit of a run in a football league side for the first time in their careers, that’s why they are performing. That is why they were brought to the club (not by Martin).
2) What do you mean they were nobodies and now being linked to the PL? They were both linked to far bigger clubs than us before they came here. They just never had a run is a side, we were happy to give them one (after initial grumbling from Martin).
3) You are spectacularly missing the point regarding Williams. He was far more elite than Guehi when we loaned him yes. You are using hindsight to see how each worked out, that’s not how it works. Williams was the far more experienced, accomplished and valuable player when we brought him in than anything Cooper brought in AT THE TIME.
4) You said Forest had a similar side in quality to us when Cooper took over. So much so you were saying that Martin should get a higher points per game ratio than Forest and finish above them. You even massaged the figures and have Martin a massive leg up - which still spectacularly failed.
Now you say it was a strong side and they were underperforming. Ironic that their star striker was a 34 year older journeyman who is now a free transfer and they have had to spend in the region of 60m to replace many of the players clearly not able to make the step up.
It’s simply revisionism.
So you know how Piroe and his dad think through a third party who thinks he or she knows how they think. Donald Rumsfeld come to mind.
Piroe had 18 games for Sparta Rotterdam with a mere 2 goals. A total of 29 games with three goals in the Netherlands 45 games with 22 goals under Martin. He is not foolish enough to rock the boat quite yet.
Piroe was a reserve player at PSV and not getting very far. Martin it seemed let Piroe know the ground rules at Swansea immediately on his arrival. Different culture, different mentality, different approach to things. Nice and clear from day one for the chilled Dutchman to absorb. Obafemi was linked to Blackburn hardly a super power these days.
Williams did not have Guehis pedigree and was not an u17 world cup winner. Guehi and Gallagher and Brewster excelled alongside Foden, Sancho amongst others. All are £20m plus players. Williams did not have this pedigree featuring only in 8 games at u18-u21 level.
Cooper inherited the Forest team similar on paper to Swansea plus NF before his arrival added Djed Spence now of THFC and recalled Brennan Johnson Wales's new golden boy. He also added Surridge and Keinan Davis on loan who performed well. Coopers loan signings have been streets ahead of Martin's.
At 12 points each after about 10 games or so both managers were struggling but had time to overcome initial upheavals and settling period. Martin had the excuse of managing a cultural change. Judging them from this point therefore removed any excuse for Martin needing bedding in period. Cooper got his team playing better football much quicker than Martin has achieved. In the short term looks like a much better manager. Martin is expected to match Cooper this season with a possession based style. It is a big ask to be sure.
They had a strong squad under Lamouchi who were better than Swansea for the whole of the preceding season until the last game collapse. Last season the team was underperforming initially with Lyle Taylor, Mighten, Worrall, Costa, Mckenna Colbeck Samba, Lolley etc It may have been a malaise related to Houghton. No one said these guy were good enough for the Premier league.
Spending £60 might not be enough either. If fact it might leave them with major headaches next season if they do not perform as expected.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 00:49 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1
So you know how Piroe and his dad think through a third party who thinks he or she knows how they think. Donald Rumsfeld come to mind.
Piroe had 18 games for Sparta Rotterdam with a mere 2 goals. A total of 29 games with three goals in the Netherlands 45 games with 22 goals under Martin. He is not foolish enough to rock the boat quite yet.
Piroe was a reserve player at PSV and not getting very far. Martin it seemed let Piroe know the ground rules at Swansea immediately on his arrival. Different culture, different mentality, different approach to things. Nice and clear from day one for the chilled Dutchman to absorb. Obafemi was linked to Blackburn hardly a super power these days.
Williams did not have Guehis pedigree and was not an u17 world cup winner. Guehi and Gallagher and Brewster excelled alongside Foden, Sancho amongst others. All are £20m plus players. Williams did not have this pedigree featuring only in 8 games at u18-u21 level.
Cooper inherited the Forest team similar on paper to Swansea plus NF before his arrival added Djed Spence now of THFC and recalled Brennan Johnson Wales's new golden boy. He also added Surridge and Keinan Davis on loan who performed well. Coopers loan signings have been streets ahead of Martin's.
At 12 points each after about 10 games or so both managers were struggling but had time to overcome initial upheavals and settling period. Martin had the excuse of managing a cultural change. Judging them from this point therefore removed any excuse for Martin needing bedding in period. Cooper got his team playing better football much quicker than Martin has achieved. In the short term looks like a much better manager. Martin is expected to match Cooper this season with a possession based style. It is a big ask to be sure.
They had a strong squad under Lamouchi who were better than Swansea for the whole of the preceding season until the last game collapse. Last season the team was underperforming initially with Lyle Taylor, Mighten, Worrall, Costa, Mckenna Colbeck Samba, Lolley etc It may have been a malaise related to Houghton. No one said these guy were good enough for the Premier league.
Spending £60 might not be enough either. If fact it might leave them with major headaches next season if they do not perform as expected.
I absolutely do know what they think yes. It’s a fact, not even up for debate. Not sure which one dislikes Martin more Piroe or his dad, it would be close.
Why was Cooper chasing him and wanting to bring him to the club if he was so rubbish then Resolven? Or do you think the club clearly thought Piroe would thrive in this division, this being well before Martin was even in the picture.
Again you are talking about what they are now, not what they were when they joined. Williams had far higher pedigree than anyone Cooper brought in, simply a fact. Multiple champions league and Premier League starts for Liverpool alongside Salah, Van Dijk, Sane, TAA among others.
You were very clear in your statement that both Swansea and Forest had similar squads in terms of quality. You gave Martin a massive leg up and he still fell short, instead of admitting one managers clear superiority over the other you instead decided to go into revision mode and pretend it was a much better squad all along.
That’s why you need a long memory in debates, people will always try and worm their way out of things they were adamant over and change history instead of addressing their error of thought.
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 06:55 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
I absolutely do know what they think yes. It’s a fact, not even up for debate. Not sure which one dislikes Martin more Piroe or his dad, it would be close.
Why was Cooper chasing him and wanting to bring him to the club if he was so rubbish then Resolven? Or do you think the club clearly thought Piroe would thrive in this division, this being well before Martin was even in the picture.
Again you are talking about what they are now, not what they were when they joined. Williams had far higher pedigree than anyone Cooper brought in, simply a fact. Multiple champions league and Premier League starts for Liverpool alongside Salah, Van Dijk, Sane, TAA among others.
You were very clear in your statement that both Swansea and Forest had similar squads in terms of quality. You gave Martin a massive leg up and he still fell short, instead of admitting one managers clear superiority over the other you instead decided to go into revision mode and pretend it was a much better squad all along.
That’s why you need a long memory in debates, people will always try and worm their way out of things they were adamant over and change history instead of addressing their error of thought.
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
That first paragraph is just an absolute joke!
You can't know what other people think. I agree there is no debate because there is no proof to your claim. And Even if you were correct and have heard a story via a 3rd party then its not a decent/honourable thing to be posting what people think of others....you don't realise the issues you could cause for many a person including the person who passed that information on to you probably in confidence.
You either need to re think how you act or you wish to carry on to stir the shiit and are glad to do so.....the latter never reflects well despite how you wish to see it or twist it.
That's a big statement you have made about Piroe and could certainly have big consequences if the claim snowballed. I always think that claims like this should bring a duty of care on forums like this and usernames and I'd addresses passed onto someone within the club because let's face it.... We don't need people posting this type of stirring shiit about our club and somethings if true need to be kept in house.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 06:55 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
I absolutely do know what they think yes. It’s a fact, not even up for debate. Not sure which one dislikes Martin more Piroe or his dad, it would be close.
Why was Cooper chasing him and wanting to bring him to the club if he was so rubbish then Resolven? Or do you think the club clearly thought Piroe would thrive in this division, this being well before Martin was even in the picture.
Again you are talking about what they are now, not what they were when they joined. Williams had far higher pedigree than anyone Cooper brought in, simply a fact. Multiple champions league and Premier League starts for Liverpool alongside Salah, Van Dijk, Sane, TAA among others.
You were very clear in your statement that both Swansea and Forest had similar squads in terms of quality. You gave Martin a massive leg up and he still fell short, instead of admitting one managers clear superiority over the other you instead decided to go into revision mode and pretend it was a much better squad all along.
That’s why you need a long memory in debates, people will always try and worm their way out of things they were adamant over and change history instead of addressing their error of thought.
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
Genuine questions on Piroe then, if Martin gets no credit for last season.
If there was a ready made 20 goal a season Championship striker available in the million pound range, why weren’t bigger clubs than us in for him?
PSV are hardly an unknown backwater club. Why didn’t they want to keep him themselves? He’d have done some damage in the Eredivisie.
Even loan him out if they were happy with their strike force. One season like that in the Championship and they’d have been able to sell for a lot more than they did.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:29 - Jul 21 with 567 views
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
He’ll have run out of excuses, if it’s mid table obscurity this season.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:42 - Jul 21 with 557 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:29 - Jul 21 by sw02sea
Totally agree with your last paragraph
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
He’ll have run out of excuses, if it’s mid table obscurity this season.
For all Martin's supposed faults, it is down to RM that Piroe, Obafemi and Downes had such good seasons. Too many on here can see his faults, but refuse to give him credit for the good he has done. Especially the OP
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:10 - Jul 21 by magicdaps10
That first paragraph is just an absolute joke!
You can't know what other people think. I agree there is no debate because there is no proof to your claim. And Even if you were correct and have heard a story via a 3rd party then its not a decent/honourable thing to be posting what people think of others....you don't realise the issues you could cause for many a person including the person who passed that information on to you probably in confidence.
You either need to re think how you act or you wish to carry on to stir the shiit and are glad to do so.....the latter never reflects well despite how you wish to see it or twist it.
That's a big statement you have made about Piroe and could certainly have big consequences if the claim snowballed. I always think that claims like this should bring a duty of care on forums like this and usernames and I'd addresses passed onto someone within the club because let's face it.... We don't need people posting this type of stirring shiit about our club and somethings if true need to be kept in house.
It is not a joke at all, it is very much serious. Very serious indeed.
What Piroe and his father think of Martin is not a secret, Martin is fully aware. It will not be a shock to him.
If it makes you uncomfortable tough I guess? There is another website you can post on if posts on there suit you better?
You won’t be telling me what I can and can’t post though, that’s for ceftain.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:28 - Jul 21 by jack247
Genuine questions on Piroe then, if Martin gets no credit for last season.
If there was a ready made 20 goal a season Championship striker available in the million pound range, why weren’t bigger clubs than us in for him?
PSV are hardly an unknown backwater club. Why didn’t they want to keep him themselves? He’d have done some damage in the Eredivisie.
Even loan him out if they were happy with their strike force. One season like that in the Championship and they’d have been able to sell for a lot more than they did.
They were.
Piroe was linked to a whole host of big European clubs, but nobody knew for sure how he would take to English football. We took the risk because Cooper was confident he would take to English football, and he was correct.
It’s a bit like saying why were we the only club in for Leon Britton. His talent was obvious. That’s football.
Again, if Piroe was scoring goals as a direct benefit of Martin’s system suiting him then sure happy to give credit. But Piroes goals largely came out of breaking away from that system, often looking frustrated with it and creating his own individual magic.
Do you think Piroe would suddenly become a 5 goal a season striker once Martin moves on, or do you think it’s far more likely he will continue to be a 15+ goal striker every season?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:42 - Jul 21 by STID2017
For all Martin's supposed faults, it is down to RM that Piroe, Obafemi and Downes had such good seasons. Too many on here can see his faults, but refuse to give him credit for the good he has done. Especially the OP
In what way is it down to Martin then?
Give us some examples of why Piroe’s ability he showed is down to Martin.
I’m all ears.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:29 - Jul 21 by sw02sea
Totally agree with your last paragraph
Martin is severely underperforming and he’s very lucky we have some players such as Piroe able to grab the side by the scruff of the neck and rescue his ridiculous tactics by some moments of individual brilliance.
He’ll have run out of excuses, if it’s mid table obscurity this season.
This in a nutshell.
It’s quite amazing what people console themselves with or convince themselves of when it comes to a severely underperforming manager they can’t bring themselves to be realistic about.
As I said, if Bob Bradley comes in tomorrow, Piroe is still a 20 goal a season Championship player and his pre season expected goals wouldn’t alter at all, in fact it has more chance of increasing than decreasing.
His skillset and suitability to the Championship makes him what he is, not Russell Martin and his severely underperforming tactics.
Anyone that pretends otherwise is deluded in the extreme.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 09:57 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
It is not a joke at all, it is very much serious. Very serious indeed.
What Piroe and his father think of Martin is not a secret, Martin is fully aware. It will not be a shock to him.
If it makes you uncomfortable tough I guess? There is another website you can post on if posts on there suit you better?
You won’t be telling me what I can and can’t post though, that’s for ceftain.
That's the issue, you can't in life go around saying things that can affect other people's lives after being told something by a 3rd party about those people......what I tend to find is that these things are never 100% the truth.
If something is serious or can have repercussions and you are told directly then it's best to keep it to yourself, those people who tend to go blabbing about something that can affect the person who told them, I would strongly advise that they are not a person who can be trusted so likely the truth is not what you would be hearing from them.
They wouldn't be showing much integrity to Piroe and his father so likely wouldn't be showing much integrity to you AND you would be Foolish to believe that person, even more Foolish to vouch for them.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:38 - Jul 21 by magicdaps10
That's the issue, you can't in life go around saying things that can affect other people's lives after being told something by a 3rd party about those people......what I tend to find is that these things are never 100% the truth.
If something is serious or can have repercussions and you are told directly then it's best to keep it to yourself, those people who tend to go blabbing about something that can affect the person who told them, I would strongly advise that they are not a person who can be trusted so likely the truth is not what you would be hearing from them.
They wouldn't be showing much integrity to Piroe and his father so likely wouldn't be showing much integrity to you AND you would be Foolish to believe that person, even more Foolish to vouch for them.
It is 100% the truth, whether you tend to think it isn’t is a complete irrelevance to anything. Martin and Piroe don’t like each other, haven't for a long time. It won’t be affecting anyone’s lives, it’s known by all those involved and was said on here many times last season. Maybe you weren’t paying attention.
Like I said, there is another forum to go to if it upsets you.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:51 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
It is 100% the truth, whether you tend to think it isn’t is a complete irrelevance to anything. Martin and Piroe don’t like each other, haven't for a long time. It won’t be affecting anyone’s lives, it’s known by all those involved and was said on here many times last season. Maybe you weren’t paying attention.
Like I said, there is another forum to go to if it upsets you.
Piroe right from the start was distracted by Martin who played Cullen in stead of him. Cullen still at the club
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:38 - Jul 21 by magicdaps10
That's the issue, you can't in life go around saying things that can affect other people's lives after being told something by a 3rd party about those people......what I tend to find is that these things are never 100% the truth.
If something is serious or can have repercussions and you are told directly then it's best to keep it to yourself, those people who tend to go blabbing about something that can affect the person who told them, I would strongly advise that they are not a person who can be trusted so likely the truth is not what you would be hearing from them.
They wouldn't be showing much integrity to Piroe and his father so likely wouldn't be showing much integrity to you AND you would be Foolish to believe that person, even more Foolish to vouch for them.
Funny how though other posters get away with posting snippets claiming they are ITK or know someone who is ITK
SOme of the things that have been put up on this board over the last couple of years have been similar to in content/context of Doc Ps claim thats what I love about this place the consistency....
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 10:54 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus
He certainly did, there were some very serious discussions prior to Xmas. Another fact.
A certain forum owner will also be aware of this being the case of course for any doubting Thomas types..
I think there is much amiss behind the scenes . I might be wrong but I feel we are fed B S on a gigantic scale by RM and when he goes,he will be like lancing a boil
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:11 - Jul 21 by onehunglow
I think there is much amiss behind the scenes . I might be wrong but I feel we are fed B S on a gigantic scale by RM and when he goes,he will be like lancing a boil
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