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Do you still trust the process and have faith in Russell’s system or has that faith disappeared. Interesting discussion on the match day thread so this is the overspill.
I’d like to gauge where the views sit after experiencing a whole season of it.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system?
[Post edited 7 May 2022 15:28]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 05:24 - May 12 by vetchonian
as one of those who is labelled as one of those " misery agents on here" I'd be happy with a top 6 finish....we should have finished higher this season with this squad which is why some of us are so vocal
Misery merchants now Just as well Res has me on ignore then
The good Doc - any updates yet from those that voted Yes ? Any cogent rationale for voting Yes ?
Clearly the 18 should be recalibrated down to c.9, allowing for the multi multis.
Can the 9 or so now articulate why they voted Yes?
Esp in light of Coops' relatively massive success.
Surely if after a few more days, the Yes brigade are still unable to come forward and articulate their rationale, then either their vote is struck off or they're named and shamed.......
(I have a pretty good idea who the 9 are.....)
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 22:32 - May 30 with 1296 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 22:08 - May 30 by AndyCole
The good Doc - any updates yet from those that voted Yes ? Any cogent rationale for voting Yes ?
Clearly the 18 should be recalibrated down to c.9, allowing for the multi multis.
Can the 9 or so now articulate why they voted Yes?
Esp in light of Coops' relatively massive success.
Surely if after a few more days, the Yes brigade are still unable to come forward and articulate their rationale, then either their vote is struck off or they're named and shamed.......
(I have a pretty good idea who the 9 are.....)
Zero people have come forward with their explanation regarding the faith they have in his system and more importantly, why.
Although I get the feeling “faith” is being subtly changed bit by bit. We were apparently settling for lower mid table last season in order to push for promotion this coming season.
But the people who were promoting that notion seem to have gone cold on it, and it’s now a narrative of “mid table will be good as we were rubbish in the 90’s”.
Which means we have written off season and settling for a low mid table position…. To aim for much the same going forward.
Ludicrous.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 22:32 - May 30 by Dr_Parnassus
Zero people have come forward with their explanation regarding the faith they have in his system and more importantly, why.
Although I get the feeling “faith” is being subtly changed bit by bit. We were apparently settling for lower mid table last season in order to push for promotion this coming season.
But the people who were promoting that notion seem to have gone cold on it, and it’s now a narrative of “mid table will be good as we were rubbish in the 90’s”.
Which means we have written off season and settling for a low mid table position…. To aim for much the same going forward.
Ludicrous.
No change here. Bet still on. Plus will be on with the bookies also.
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 22:48 - May 30 by Dr_Parnassus
Yep.
Although I’m more fascinated in your reasoning rather than your conviction. Lots of people bet on their own team without logic.
I’m wondering whether yours is from a place of punters loyalty to his team, or one of logic where you genuinely see and expect success.
[Post edited 30 May 2022 22:48]
I saw enough last season when we played well to indicate we can go all the way this time. Given that Calderwood will be sorting out the defence, and that Martin has committed to four at the back, this year will be much better. I saw nothing last season, apart from Fulham, that was that special. All teams are fallible, so with the right mix and a bit more consistency, we can get promotion.
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 22:59 - May 30 by STID2017
I saw enough last season when we played well to indicate we can go all the way this time. Given that Calderwood will be sorting out the defence, and that Martin has committed to four at the back, this year will be much better. I saw nothing last season, apart from Fulham, that was that special. All teams are fallible, so with the right mix and a bit more consistency, we can get promotion.
When you say you saw enough…
We finishing 15th. We played well for about 6 games out of 46. The rest was complete dross.
We have probably played well 6 times under every manager we have had for a full season. I don’t think it’s a measure of encouragement is it?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:07 - May 30 by Dr_Parnassus
When you say you saw enough…
We finishing 15th. We played well for about 6 games out of 46. The rest was complete dross.
We have probably played well 6 times under every manager we have had for a full season. I don’t think it’s a measure of encouragement is it?
All about opinions eh ? You don't have to play well for 90 minutes every game to win. Both Real Madrid and Forest proved that on the weekend. Both Cardiff matches, both Coventry matches, WBA home, Millwall away, Peterborough home, Bristol City home, were all good wins. Brighton and Southampton were good performances. Fulham away we did well, although Mitrovic was on fire. Fulham home, we were competing until the suicide goal in the second half. Bournemouth home was a nailed on win until they crippled Cabango then fouled Downes for their equaliser. Reading away, for about 60 minutes was an excellent away performance. Even Peterborough away saw an excellent fight back against a team who belied their lowly position. The second half at Luton, after the disaster of the first,was a great comeback. Other matches saw patches of excellent play, but not sustained. Individual players impressed last season, not only Cabango, Piroe, Obafemi and Downes, but also Naughton who belied his years, as well as Wolf ( although on loan ) plus Congreve and Ogbeta ( would be great to see more of them both ) So all in all, lots to be positive about. Looking forward to seeing who is brought in over the next few weeks.
[Post edited 30 May 2022 23:53]
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:40 - May 30 by STID2017
All about opinions eh ? You don't have to play well for 90 minutes every game to win. Both Real Madrid and Forest proved that on the weekend. Both Cardiff matches, both Coventry matches, WBA home, Millwall away, Peterborough home, Bristol City home, were all good wins. Brighton and Southampton were good performances. Fulham away we did well, although Mitrovic was on fire. Fulham home, we were competing until the suicide goal in the second half. Bournemouth home was a nailed on win until they crippled Cabango then fouled Downes for their equaliser. Reading away, for about 60 minutes was an excellent away performance. Even Peterborough away saw an excellent fight back against a team who belied their lowly position. The second half at Luton, after the disaster of the first,was a great comeback. Other matches saw patches of excellent play, but not sustained. Individual players impressed last season, not only Cabango, Piroe, Obafemi and Downes, but also Naughton who belied his years, as well as Wolf ( although on loan ) plus Congreve and Ogbeta ( would be great to see more of them both ) So all in all, lots to be positive about. Looking forward to seeing who is brought in over the next few weeks.
[Post edited 30 May 2022 23:53]
But Real Madrid and Forest both played well throughout the season to the extent they could get to their respective finals.
We didn’t even play well enough to nudge into the top half. 15th is no indicator of future success.
Piroe will probably be going, he hates Martin. Downes may go looking at the balance sheet today, it wouldn’t shock me.
We then have to rely on Martin to replace them on a budget. His own signings have been terrible.
It’s all well and good playing well against the likes of Peterborough and Cardiff, I’d like to think any manager of Swansea can do that regardless of tactics. We have to play well consistently against the better teams of this division if we want to progress.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest this is the case.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:53 - May 30 by Dr_Parnassus
But Real Madrid and Forest both played well throughout the season to the extent they could get to their respective finals.
We didn’t even play well enough to nudge into the top half. 15th is no indicator of future success.
Piroe will probably be going, he hates Martin. Downes may go looking at the balance sheet today, it wouldn’t shock me.
We then have to rely on Martin to replace them on a budget. His own signings have been terrible.
It’s all well and good playing well against the likes of Peterborough and Cardiff, I’d like to think any manager of Swansea can do that regardless of tactics. We have to play well consistently against the better teams of this division if we want to progress.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest this is the case.
Indeed consistency and a solid defence are the order of the day. You said about Piroe, at the end of the day he is still under contract,as is Dowwnes so unless the club gets an acceptable offer for them, they will remain our players. A lot will of course depend on who comes and goes, but I am sure the club are preparing ready for the upcoming window and the new season. Ultimately there is no benefit to the owners of us just treading water in the Championship
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 00:05 - May 31 by STID2017
Indeed consistency and a solid defence are the order of the day. You said about Piroe, at the end of the day he is still under contract,as is Dowwnes so unless the club gets an acceptable offer for them, they will remain our players. A lot will of course depend on who comes and goes, but I am sure the club are preparing ready for the upcoming window and the new season. Ultimately there is no benefit to the owners of us just treading water in the Championship
It’s modern football, it doesn’t really work like that. If someone wants out then they will leave regardless of contract.
From what I’ve heard Piroe really doesn’t like Martin at all, he’s refused to entertain sitting down and discussing any contracts which the club want him to do. Pato is the same, doesn’t get on with the manager at all and may not sign on again, there is a bit of a theme unfortunately. Time will tell on that one.
As for Piroe, I’ll be stunned if he isn’t gone by the end of Jan.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
And here we now are, largely through the much heralded pre-season and still nothing, nada, dim from the Martinistas.
Not one iota of rationale for voting ' Yes'. The twps. It's blind faith, it has to be.
And when you take a closer look at that 22 (rounded down to about 12, allowing for multi multis) - it will be the types that were the very last to be picked on the school playground. The no-hopers, the cloggers.
C'mon Martinistas - give us some rationale, show us your reasoning with some deep dive technical insight as to why his daft 'process and 'system' is worth voting for, despite the overwhelming evidence it's pretty crap.
.
Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye
0
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:54 - Jul 17 with 927 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 20:41 - Jul 17 by AndyCole
And here we now are, largely through the much heralded pre-season and still nothing, nada, dim from the Martinistas.
Not one iota of rationale for voting ' Yes'. The twps. It's blind faith, it has to be.
And when you take a closer look at that 22 (rounded down to about 12, allowing for multi multis) - it will be the types that were the very last to be picked on the school playground. The no-hopers, the cloggers.
C'mon Martinistas - give us some rationale, show us your reasoning with some deep dive technical insight as to why his daft 'process and 'system' is worth voting for, despite the overwhelming evidence it's pretty crap.
.
This season result will be decisive. WLWLDWL will not do. There has to be an improvement. This will come by familiarisation of the system, evolution of the system by changes and tweaks, or the introduction of a new assistant manager or a sacking.
The squad looks strong on paper to me with improvement in defence extra experience in midfield and the maturing of two very promising strikers. I do not expect Piroe or Obafemi to be sold unless Swansea are out of the promotion running by January. Pre season results do not indicate this but Martin and Gill seem happy enough.
The non appointment of Calderwood could be seen as a mistake down the line if losses mount up and the coaches are nodding ducks.
Nobody has said why exactly we should entrust Martin .It is simply because he is the manager-sorry coach.
Fisher replaced a perfectly adequate,if not great,keeper who was thrown to the four strong winds that follow our club.THIS is the type of quality player he sees,our worst in living memory in some regards,certainly the most frail.
We have some good young talent utterly wasted.
This is why we worry.ALL of us;thing is some admit it ,others don't .They can't a they ll be seen in a bad light with their chums.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 23:54 - Jul 17 by ReslovenSwan1
This season result will be decisive. WLWLDWL will not do. There has to be an improvement. This will come by familiarisation of the system, evolution of the system by changes and tweaks, or the introduction of a new assistant manager or a sacking.
The squad looks strong on paper to me with improvement in defence extra experience in midfield and the maturing of two very promising strikers. I do not expect Piroe or Obafemi to be sold unless Swansea are out of the promotion running by January. Pre season results do not indicate this but Martin and Gill seem happy enough.
The non appointment of Calderwood could be seen as a mistake down the line if losses mount up and the coaches are nodding ducks.
“This will come by familiarisation of the system.”
Being familiar with a broken system won’t make the system any less broken.
It would be sensible to suggest that the squad had never been more familiar with the system than at the end of the season, where they had played that way 50+ times.
We didn’t win a single one of our last 6 games as shown by the form tables. Familiarity, I’m afraid, is not a cure for mediocrity.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:00 - Jul 18 by Dr_Parnassus
“This will come by familiarisation of the system.”
Being familiar with a broken system won’t make the system any less broken.
It would be sensible to suggest that the squad had never been more familiar with the system than at the end of the season, where they had played that way 50+ times.
We didn’t win a single one of our last 6 games as shown by the form tables. Familiarity, I’m afraid, is not a cure for mediocrity.
Brilliant assessment of our performance last season The team in 15th only did mildly better over the last six games based on that. Clearly doesn't show the whole picture. Anyway time for you and the other doomongers on here to give it a rest and start looking forward. We are going into a new season and all 24 teams have a clean slate and who knows what will happen ? Swans fans should base their opinions on what happens from July 30th onwards, not what happened last season ( and certainly not the last 6 games )and the pre season. It is easier for you to knock the club you claim to support though ( same applies to UHL, AC and a few others ) Must be hard work being such pessimistic folks, guys ?
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 08:02 - May 11 by Dr_Parnassus
Isnt the risky and endless tippy tappy at the back the system though?
For example, this goal kick routine. That is to to emphasise it as opposed to do away with it.
Hairy moments but not many goals conceded from 'tippy tappy'" It seems its done for no apparent reason at times but it keeps possession unlike hoofing the ball in into midfield.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 11:57 - Jul 18 by STID2017
Brilliant assessment of our performance last season The team in 15th only did mildly better over the last six games based on that. Clearly doesn't show the whole picture. Anyway time for you and the other doomongers on here to give it a rest and start looking forward. We are going into a new season and all 24 teams have a clean slate and who knows what will happen ? Swans fans should base their opinions on what happens from July 30th onwards, not what happened last season ( and certainly not the last 6 games )and the pre season. It is easier for you to knock the club you claim to support though ( same applies to UHL, AC and a few others ) Must be hard work being such pessimistic folks, guys ?
What about this post is doomongering?
Doc P is just replying to a poster who is stating with time and familiarity the system will work. Doc P pointed out that at a time in the season when players should be most familiar with the system our form was awful.
Remember we were being told to "trust in the process" well processes are measurable after 40 games when we fans had been told to be patient it is apparent form the results that the process was not working. No doom mongering just a presentation of facts to counter the argument put forward by another poster.
The issue always is no one seems to like the facts....yes a new season begins July 30th lets see how the process is doing 10 games in hopefully lessons have been learnt and applied.
Why does anyone who raises critique have their credence if supporting the club questioned?
Its because some of these supporters care is why they raise their arguments...they want to see us doing well..and see the issues which prevent that.
It can be as "frustrating" when other supporters appear to "blindly " support the manager despite the level and quality of performances and results not improving and the club /team is seen as "going backwards"....which some times you have to do to go forwards lets hope this new season brings that.
No one is pessimisitic just speaking with data ....Processes are measurable the measures form last season do not back the arguemtn put forward by Res and that is what Doc P was replying to
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:06 - Jul 18 by vetchonian
What about this post is doomongering?
Doc P is just replying to a poster who is stating with time and familiarity the system will work. Doc P pointed out that at a time in the season when players should be most familiar with the system our form was awful.
Remember we were being told to "trust in the process" well processes are measurable after 40 games when we fans had been told to be patient it is apparent form the results that the process was not working. No doom mongering just a presentation of facts to counter the argument put forward by another poster.
The issue always is no one seems to like the facts....yes a new season begins July 30th lets see how the process is doing 10 games in hopefully lessons have been learnt and applied.
Why does anyone who raises critique have their credence if supporting the club questioned?
Its because some of these supporters care is why they raise their arguments...they want to see us doing well..and see the issues which prevent that.
It can be as "frustrating" when other supporters appear to "blindly " support the manager despite the level and quality of performances and results not improving and the club /team is seen as "going backwards"....which some times you have to do to go forwards lets hope this new season brings that.
No one is pessimisitic just speaking with data ....Processes are measurable the measures form last season do not back the arguemtn put forward by Res and that is what Doc P was replying to
Not quite so. I am pessimistic. That seems a capital offence to many to which I say go take your optimistic disingenuous claptrap and insert it into a tight orifice .
This is our club we are talking about not Martins . We are a proper club and we’re before he first put on his first pair of football boots .
Doomongering is fine. It is down to the team to prove us wrong.
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:52 - Jul 18 by onehunglow
Not quite so. I am pessimistic. That seems a capital offence to many to which I say go take your optimistic disingenuous claptrap and insert it into a tight orifice .
This is our club we are talking about not Martins . We are a proper club and we’re before he first put on his first pair of football boots .
Doomongering is fine. It is down to the team to prove us wrong.
So presumably at the first game we give them boos and cat calls before kickoff, slow hand clap through the game until such point as they "prove us wrong" and show they are a better team than some on here think ? Again, unbelievable Jim
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 13:52 - Jul 18 by onehunglow
Not quite so. I am pessimistic. That seems a capital offence to many to which I say go take your optimistic disingenuous claptrap and insert it into a tight orifice .
This is our club we are talking about not Martins . We are a proper club and we’re before he first put on his first pair of football boots .
Doomongering is fine. It is down to the team to prove us wrong.
It's not the pessimism, you criticise him on a daily basis, and seem to be wishing him to fail.
At least let's give it 10 games and see where we are
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Temporarily coming out of message board retirement to answer this one.
Depends what your objective is. As a fan, the short answer is no, although I do enjoy watching this style of play. I think the criticisms about overplaying it at the back can be exaggerated, but on the whole are fair. The fact of the matter is I want us to finish top six minimum (with last seasons promotions and relegations, the competition is probably as weak as it has been for a while). We may scrape that, but teams that get promoted don’t concede many goals. We may improve defensively, but I still think we’ll see too many avoidable goals.
From our owners perspective, he’s turned less than £5m worth of players in Piroe, Downes and Obafemi into £9m (minus sell on plus add ons) and conservatively £20/25m worth of assets. I’d imagine Cabangos value has increased now he’s better on the ball without losing any of his physical or defensive attributes, they’ll hope/expect to do the same with Darling. For a club that doesn’t have the finances to throw at a promotion push, that’s a hell of a return, even when you chuck the odd Whittaker or Ogbeta that didn’t work out in the mix.
In summary, I think the owners will be delighted with him. As a fan, I like watching this kind of football, but don’t think we’ll get consistent enough results, even without Fulham, Bournemouth, Forest and with the weaker PL teams coming down, so no.
Before anyone says Piroe was here before Martin, I know, but he was a £1m player at that point.
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Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:53 - Jul 18 with 613 views
Do you still have faith in Russell Martin’s system? on 15:29 - Jul 18 by jack247
Temporarily coming out of message board retirement to answer this one.
Depends what your objective is. As a fan, the short answer is no, although I do enjoy watching this style of play. I think the criticisms about overplaying it at the back can be exaggerated, but on the whole are fair. The fact of the matter is I want us to finish top six minimum (with last seasons promotions and relegations, the competition is probably as weak as it has been for a while). We may scrape that, but teams that get promoted don’t concede many goals. We may improve defensively, but I still think we’ll see too many avoidable goals.
From our owners perspective, he’s turned less than £5m worth of players in Piroe, Downes and Obafemi into £9m (minus sell on plus add ons) and conservatively £20/25m worth of assets. I’d imagine Cabangos value has increased now he’s better on the ball without losing any of his physical or defensive attributes, they’ll hope/expect to do the same with Darling. For a club that doesn’t have the finances to throw at a promotion push, that’s a hell of a return, even when you chuck the odd Whittaker or Ogbeta that didn’t work out in the mix.
In summary, I think the owners will be delighted with him. As a fan, I like watching this kind of football, but don’t think we’ll get consistent enough results, even without Fulham, Bournemouth, Forest and with the weaker PL teams coming down, so no.
Before anyone says Piroe was here before Martin, I know, but he was a £1m player at that point.
I would say Piroes value has increased despite of MArtin
If you look at Piroes history he has scored goals consistently ok when he stepped up to senior football he was not a prolific but he still scored goals.
As Jasper as pointed out elsewhere on here Martin moved Piroe form up top to midfield and he still scored goals had he remained as striker it is possible he could have bagged 30.
I think its far too early to start proclaiming Martin as someone who is developing players...Downes always had the potential but fair dos Martin brought him here..and he has made us some money but still early days to be claiming him as a guru
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