| Is the patience finally paying off!? 22:02 - Oct 5 with 10674 views | magicdaps10 |
Genuine question, what do you all think?
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:33 - Oct 6 with 1212 views | guthrieintherain |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:06 - Oct 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
You advocated for his departure prior to the change in style, didn’t you? |
Nice to have you back. |  |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:50 - Oct 6 with 1173 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:33 - Oct 6 by guthrieintherain |
Nice to have you back. |
Thanks Guthrie. Can’t imagine it will be a long term thing as I’ll still be advocating for the same fairness and equality for all and will still point it out when it isn’t present.
But it will be nice for the period I’m back, yes.  |  |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:53 - Oct 6 with 1188 views | guthrieintherain |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:50 - Oct 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
Thanks Guthrie. Can’t imagine it will be a long term thing as I’ll still be advocating for the same fairness and equality for all and will still point it out when it isn’t present.
But it will be nice for the period I’m back, yes. |
Yes just want some fairness and consistency I think the ref tonight would make a good moderator. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 05:46 - Oct 6 with 1105 views | vetchonian |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:19 - Oct 5 by raynor94 |
Of course it is, I've never understood some of the criticism Martin has received on here |
says it all | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 05:51 - Oct 6 with 1104 views | vetchonian |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:26 - Oct 5 by Dr_Winston |
If we were still doing the same things we did last season then perhaps that claim could be made. As there are obvious changes to the way we do things, especially since Benda came back in then perhaps it's more accurate to say lessons might finally have been learned. |
absolutely nailed on analysis Doc.
Martin seems to realised his original way was not working...something many of pointed out a long time ago...well done to him for making the change..had he not made that change and persevered we could be bottom 3vand he could be another unemployed manager...but thankfully we are not in that situation. Nowt to di with patience | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 06:07 - Oct 6 with 1096 views | jackal |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 05:51 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
absolutely nailed on analysis Doc.
Martin seems to realised his original way was not working...something many of pointed out a long time ago...well done to him for making the change..had he not made that change and persevered we could be bottom 3vand he could be another unemployed manager...but thankfully we are not in that situation. Nowt to di with patience |
The change in style is what is working.
We have stopped fannying around at the back and started getting forward with some speed. That's all we wanted and it's working. |  | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 06:09 - Oct 6 with 1079 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 05:51 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
absolutely nailed on analysis Doc.
Martin seems to realised his original way was not working...something many of pointed out a long time ago...well done to him for making the change..had he not made that change and persevered we could be bottom 3vand he could be another unemployed manager...but thankfully we are not in that situation. Nowt to di with patience |
I think we have to pretend that nothing has changed, I think that’s the narrative the OP likes to espouse.
The fact we barely have the lions share of possession these days and often have little more passes than our opposition seems to be an inconvenient truth that is best ignored. I won’t even touch upon the x2 and even x3+ more long balls.
Those of us calling to play this way for the last 12 months have been adamant we are a top 6 side being held back by ridiculous tactics of 75% possession and 800 short passes… a glance at the table and the very clear point from which the change happened suggests that was very much correct.
Not that many would like to admit it of course. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 06:26 - Oct 6 with 1066 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:48 - Oct 5 by STID2017 |
RM madevthe decision to bring in Fisher to replace whoever was in goals at the time. His "bad" as the kids say.
RM was the one who brought Benda in to replace Fisher. Credit to him for that |
Credit?
For wasting money on a keeper we obviously didn’t need, after many of us were calling for Benda to be playing due to clearly being our best keeper - only to see him shunted out on loan.
I suppose we can give him some credit for correcting yet another glaring error he made, but it shouldn’t have been made in the first place. That’s what was frustrating a lot of people, him sticking with things that were clearly not working.
It’s been 12 months wasted, but he has finally seen the light. I hope. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:18 - Oct 6 with 1030 views | Dr_Winston |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 06:07 - Oct 6 by jackal |
The change in style is what is working.
We have stopped fannying around at the back and started getting forward with some speed. That's all we wanted and it's working. |
That's not to say that Martinball has been jettisoned entirely either.
We're still heavily possession based in comparison to the more defensive and direct style we played under Cooper. He's just tweaked things to try and avoid some of the more suicidally stupid aspects, which is what you would want to see from a manager. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:25 - Oct 6 with 1027 views | RichardO |
Could we say Martin knew he had problems in his defence and that is why he brought two new defenders.
Was he under orders to reduce the wage bill, by not playing Fulton, Bennett and Bidewell or did he think that they couldn't play in his team formation?
The defence he had last year was poor, it was slow and we were out muscled with very little height in the chosen teams, which with the style of play did not help.
This year the team Martin picks seems to have finally settled down hopefully he won't go back to wholesale changes as was his want last year. | | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:48 - Oct 6 with 991 views | jack247 |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:26 - Oct 5 by Dr_Winston |
If we were still doing the same things we did last season then perhaps that claim could be made. As there are obvious changes to the way we do things, especially since Benda came back in then perhaps it's more accurate to say lessons might finally have been learned. |
Couldn’t agree with this more.
I wanted him sacked a month ago. I didn’t think he’d have the humility to back down from the way he had us playing. He’s proved me and I’d guess the majority on here wrong. Massive credit to him for that.
It’s still not quite right. We didn’t get the best out of either striker last night and Naughton had a nightmare. Positionally he’s brilliant, but he’s cost us two goals this week and Wood saved him from a third.
We’re so much better now we’ve struck a balance between pragmatism and good football though. Four wins and a competitive defeat to the top team in the last 5 is a sensational return.
Word of caution - we’ve had two last minute wins this week. Earlier in the season we were on a run of last minute defeats plus the mental draw against Milwall. Those games were just as competitive as the ones we’ve just won. | | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:00 - Oct 6 with 944 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:18 - Oct 6 by Dr_Winston |
That's not to say that Martinball has been jettisoned entirely either.
We're still heavily possession based in comparison to the more defensive and direct style we played under Cooper. He's just tweaked things to try and avoid some of the more suicidally stupid aspects, which is what you would want to see from a manager. |
“ We're still heavily possession based in comparison to the more defensive and direct style we played under Cooper.”
That’s incorrect.
52.5% possession average since we made the switch. Under Cooper I believe the average was 50.5% from memory, someone may have a better memory than me though. 2% is not “heavily”.
But let’s not confuse “having more possession” with that being “Martinball”, they aren’t remotely similar. Martinball was about “how” we gained more possession, not simply the fact that we did.
Last season we averaged 64% possession and 600+ passes, to go from that to barely 50% and getting a similar amount of passes as our opposition is not a minor tweak, it’s an overhaul. Yes he has also got rid of the suicidal stuff, but that’s an extra. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 8:19]
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:04 - Oct 6 with 942 views | Dr_Winston |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:48 - Oct 6 by jack247 |
Couldn’t agree with this more.
I wanted him sacked a month ago. I didn’t think he’d have the humility to back down from the way he had us playing. He’s proved me and I’d guess the majority on here wrong. Massive credit to him for that.
It’s still not quite right. We didn’t get the best out of either striker last night and Naughton had a nightmare. Positionally he’s brilliant, but he’s cost us two goals this week and Wood saved him from a third.
We’re so much better now we’ve struck a balance between pragmatism and good football though. Four wins and a competitive defeat to the top team in the last 5 is a sensational return.
Word of caution - we’ve had two last minute wins this week. Earlier in the season we were on a run of last minute defeats plus the mental draw against Milwall. Those games were just as competitive as the ones we’ve just won. |
There is still lots of room for improvement.
The team lacks pace. As much as Sorinola has rammed some of the kneejerk nonsense spouted about him earlier in the season back down people's throats by proving that he is at least competent at this level, he's still someone that can be improved upon for me. Oko-Flex is probably wondering why he bothered coming here. Same with Finn Stevens.
I love Naughts to bits but he's clearly struggling at the moment. We've got a Million Pound centre half sitting on the bench who should easily be able to slot in instead, yet isn't. The question must be asked why.
The return of Joe Allen will also pose some quandaries. Grimes is playing better, Fulton is doing well. Do we slot JA in alongside those or will he replace Fulton (let's be honest, it won't be Grimes who makes way no matter what). Ntcham last night demonstrated why he should always play more centrally. The midfield mix is crucial. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:15 - Oct 6 with 926 views | jojaca |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:48 - Oct 6 by jack247 |
Couldn’t agree with this more.
I wanted him sacked a month ago. I didn’t think he’d have the humility to back down from the way he had us playing. He’s proved me and I’d guess the majority on here wrong. Massive credit to him for that.
It’s still not quite right. We didn’t get the best out of either striker last night and Naughton had a nightmare. Positionally he’s brilliant, but he’s cost us two goals this week and Wood saved him from a third.
We’re so much better now we’ve struck a balance between pragmatism and good football though. Four wins and a competitive defeat to the top team in the last 5 is a sensational return.
Word of caution - we’ve had two last minute wins this week. Earlier in the season we were on a run of last minute defeats plus the mental draw against Milwall. Those games were just as competitive as the ones we’ve just won. |
This run of form I could not see coming and I have had my finger on the sack button. He's proved me wrong, but lets stay grounded a couple of losses on the trot and we will be threatening relegation again, the league table is wide open with one win or loss can result in changing 7/8 places.
The encouraging points is Benda looks the real deal, reminds of the Schmeichal's with his presence. Nathan Wood is progressing very nicely, Sorinola looking more capable at this level. Midfield is holding up well without Joe Allen and if our strikers get their scoring boots back on we could be right handful for this league. I would like to give a special mention to Ryan Manning, my player of the season so far, always puts a shift in with a touch more quality of late. |  |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:18 - Oct 6 with 919 views | jack247 |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:04 - Oct 6 by Dr_Winston |
There is still lots of room for improvement.
The team lacks pace. As much as Sorinola has rammed some of the kneejerk nonsense spouted about him earlier in the season back down people's throats by proving that he is at least competent at this level, he's still someone that can be improved upon for me. Oko-Flex is probably wondering why he bothered coming here. Same with Finn Stevens.
I love Naughts to bits but he's clearly struggling at the moment. We've got a Million Pound centre half sitting on the bench who should easily be able to slot in instead, yet isn't. The question must be asked why.
The return of Joe Allen will also pose some quandaries. Grimes is playing better, Fulton is doing well. Do we slot JA in alongside those or will he replace Fulton (let's be honest, it won't be Grimes who makes way no matter what). Ntcham last night demonstrated why he should always play more centrally. The midfield mix is crucial. |
I honestly think Allen could play Naughtons role, regardless of his height.
It’s not a traditional centre back role. Cabango and Wood do all the old school physical defending. It’s about being in the right position to cover any of the other defenders and to give them an easy option in possession. Being comfortable and not panicking with the ball is also a big part of it.
Memory may be off, but I’m sure we did similar once or twice either with Britton or Grimes alongside a big centre back. | | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:54 - Oct 6 with 895 views | Fireboy2 |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:04 - Oct 6 by Dr_Winston |
There is still lots of room for improvement.
The team lacks pace. As much as Sorinola has rammed some of the kneejerk nonsense spouted about him earlier in the season back down people's throats by proving that he is at least competent at this level, he's still someone that can be improved upon for me. Oko-Flex is probably wondering why he bothered coming here. Same with Finn Stevens.
I love Naughts to bits but he's clearly struggling at the moment. We've got a Million Pound centre half sitting on the bench who should easily be able to slot in instead, yet isn't. The question must be asked why.
The return of Joe Allen will also pose some quandaries. Grimes is playing better, Fulton is doing well. Do we slot JA in alongside those or will he replace Fulton (let's be honest, it won't be Grimes who makes way no matter what). Ntcham last night demonstrated why he should always play more centrally. The midfield mix is crucial. |
If sorinola and manning had a bit of pace we would be higher up the league.
I too had my finger on the sack button a month ago but it seems like Martin has lessened the effing about at the back, even though at times we did it last night which made me and the eldest squirm. |  | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:54 - Oct 6 with 892 views | Boundy |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:41 - Oct 5 by onehunglow |
Benda,the guy replaced by Fisher.
Just to add a little context |
And just to add at the time he deserved to be dropped , he was thrown in trying to play a way in which then he wasn’t suited to play , a change in style more suited to his capabilities has shown he’s more than capable imo | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:56 - Oct 6 with 883 views | bennytheblue |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 00:50 - Oct 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
Thanks Guthrie. Can’t imagine it will be a long term thing as I’ll still be advocating for the same fairness and equality for all and will still point it out when it isn’t present.
But it will be nice for the period I’m back, yes. |
The return of the king….or was that something else?
angel]
Our life lessons can carry on again….any pearls of wisdom to get me going today dr P?  |  | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:58 - Oct 6 with 872 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 08:56 - Oct 6 by bennytheblue |
The return of the king….or was that something else?
angel]
Our life lessons can carry on again….any pearls of wisdom to get me going today dr P? |
If you are frightened to die, then don’t be scared to live.
Do something that excites you today Benny. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 09:46 - Oct 6 with 816 views | BryanSwan |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 22:23 - Oct 5 by builthjack |
I haven’t criticised Martin yet.
Most of the criticism came from the ones who have left the site, and OHL . |
To be fair I've criticised Martin, at the start of the season we were really poor some games and without changes i don't think we would've been going anywhere.
I just didn't see Martin putting Benda in etc, which has led us to be much improved.
Credit to him making those decisions, onward and upward hopefully. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 09:53 - Oct 6 with 806 views | jack247 |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 09:46 - Oct 6 by BryanSwan |
To be fair I've criticised Martin, at the start of the season we were really poor some games and without changes i don't think we would've been going anywhere.
I just didn't see Martin putting Benda in etc, which has led us to be much improved.
Credit to him making those decisions, onward and upward hopefully. |
I’ve criticised him. He deserved it at the time. With hindsight, he deserved it before I lost patience.
He’s changed the way we play without sacrificing the passing football. He’s just limited the pointless and dangerous passes. He deserves credit for that. | | | |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 10:02 - Oct 6 with 787 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 09:53 - Oct 6 by jack247 |
I’ve criticised him. He deserved it at the time. With hindsight, he deserved it before I lost patience.
He’s changed the way we play without sacrificing the passing football. He’s just limited the pointless and dangerous passes. He deserves credit for that. |
The passing has seen a huge decrease, not just the pointless and dangerous ones. The passing is down heavily across the board.
That is largely due to switching to a mixed style rather than a short passing one. 10-15% of our passes are now long balls meaning we get to the same spots with 1 pass rather than 10. When you then remove the ridiculous goal kick routines and the suicide ball at the back, you are left with what we have - 50 odd % possession and not that many more passes than the opposition.
But as you say, you were right to be critical when he was deserving of criticism for playing that way. He’s now changed it so he should face far less criticism and more praise, why he didn’t do it sooner is a mystery.
I’d like to know the private conversations had there as something has twigged. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 10:10 - Oct 6 with 785 views | magicdaps10 |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 09:53 - Oct 6 by jack247 |
I’ve criticised him. He deserved it at the time. With hindsight, he deserved it before I lost patience.
He’s changed the way we play without sacrificing the passing football. He’s just limited the pointless and dangerous passes. He deserves credit for that. |
It was always going to take patience and understanding, it was never going to be the style he was aiming for within a few months and arguably a season but his plan seems to be fitting in to place now.......football changes quickly and this is why some were not getting excited as we shouldn't be now in the opposite direction but clearly Martin is now getting the team to the way he wants it and the players are clicking also.
It was always going to take patience but ultimately we needed to build some sort of stability after quite a bit of upheavel just prior to Martin joining us.
Ultimately 3 games down the line and the pitchforks could be back out but I think seeing how quick things can change that there will certainly be more calm and understanding if it does happen.
My only concern presently is that the oassing from the back is far crisper and the movement in midfield and attack has improved immensely to allow us to move the ball quicker but I do feel that Naughton is really struggling in this major improvement with ball at feet....time to get Darling in there as the central of the 3. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 10:19 - Oct 6 with 767 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 10:10 - Oct 6 by magicdaps10 |
It was always going to take patience and understanding, it was never going to be the style he was aiming for within a few months and arguably a season but his plan seems to be fitting in to place now.......football changes quickly and this is why some were not getting excited as we shouldn't be now in the opposite direction but clearly Martin is now getting the team to the way he wants it and the players are clicking also.
It was always going to take patience but ultimately we needed to build some sort of stability after quite a bit of upheavel just prior to Martin joining us.
Ultimately 3 games down the line and the pitchforks could be back out but I think seeing how quick things can change that there will certainly be more calm and understanding if it does happen.
My only concern presently is that the oassing from the back is far crisper and the movement in midfield and attack has improved immensely to allow us to move the ball quicker but I do feel that Naughton is really struggling in this major improvement with ball at feet....time to get Darling in there as the central of the 3. |
Please don’t pretend this was the style he was going for from the start 
The way to get from 350 passes to 450 passes is to pass it 800 times a game and then cut it drastically?
The way to get from 50% possession to 52% possession is to keep 80% of the ball for over a season then drastically cut it back to pretty much how it was?
Daps, you are just going to have to own this one my friend. I don’t think you will be winning too many minds by going round the houses and pretending this was all part of the plan.
The reason he bought Fisher was so he could continue how he was playing, not adapt it. Fisher’s axing is a product of Martin throwing the towel in with it, to argue otherwise is just very silly indeed. | |
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| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 11:18 - Oct 6 with 736 views | guthrieintherain |
| Is the patience finally paying off!? on 07:48 - Oct 6 by jack247 |
Couldn’t agree with this more.
I wanted him sacked a month ago. I didn’t think he’d have the humility to back down from the way he had us playing. He’s proved me and I’d guess the majority on here wrong. Massive credit to him for that.
It’s still not quite right. We didn’t get the best out of either striker last night and Naughton had a nightmare. Positionally he’s brilliant, but he’s cost us two goals this week and Wood saved him from a third.
We’re so much better now we’ve struck a balance between pragmatism and good football though. Four wins and a competitive defeat to the top team in the last 5 is a sensational return.
Word of caution - we’ve had two last minute wins this week. Earlier in the season we were on a run of last minute defeats plus the mental draw against Milwall. Those games were just as competitive as the ones we’ve just won. |
Not really last minute last night played 22 minutes added time we scored in the 8th minute of added.
Makes up for Millwall Stoke and Sheff Utd though them 3 were gut wrenching.
We had 4 yellow cards after the winning goal which shows how much togetherness there is in our side.
We are in with a shout for promotion if we can keep this going well done to the whole club and the fantastic travelling support. [Post edited 6 Oct 2022 11:25]
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