| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? 15:22 - Jul 21 with 1427 views | KeithHaynes |
Or will there be constant reminders from a season of rebuilding ?
For me he gets until the WC break before assessment.
Even if he loses the first five. |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:26 - Jul 21 with 1141 views | shandyjack |
Don't see how they can start with a clean slate when they had 46 games last season.
Guess the big question is have we learnt from last season.
I.e
Are we still conceding early into both halves, or straight after we have scored.
Are we still conceding from silly avoidable mistakes
Is he still persisting with 3-5-2 even when it isn't working
If we lose the first 5 games then he will be under massive pressure over his 'principles'
I'd give him untill WC and expect us to be at least top 10 |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:32 - Jul 21 with 1132 views | magicdaps10 |
I think you have to give it 5 games or so to see if the defence has been sorted, that was the achiles heel last season so we have to give it a chance because players like Darling, Wood and a new Right back will be sourced.... It highlights that the club know its problems so you have to give them a chance to see if it can be put straight.
Any other nonsense prior to that is just that.... Nonsense. |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:41 - Jul 21 with 1121 views | jack247 |
Yes. But I’m expecting the defensive frailties and slow build up play from the back that allow opponents to reset and make it harder for us to break them down to still be pretty big Achilles heels. |  | | |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:47 - Jul 21 with 1105 views | jasper_T |
It's not a clean slate. We'll be expecting to see progression and lessons learned from last season. That's not too much to ask. He's still got the core of last season's team plus new signings.
Martin is the 30th longest-serving manager in the EFL right now (out of 70, two jobs currently vacant). How can it be too early to judge his/our performances? | | | |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:51 - Jul 21 with 1104 views | magicdaps10 |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:41 - Jul 21 by jack247 |
Yes. But I’m expecting the defensive frailties and slow build up play from the back that allow opponents to reset and make it harder for us to break them down to still be pretty big Achilles heels. |
I understand the concern especially the defense and the conceding of goals.
I think Joey will make a big difference in there also, he will hold shape a lot better in front of the defence and his experience won't be a bad thing either.
I have big hopes for Darling but Wood does worry me but hopefully Ben will be back sooner rather than later. Darling seems to have a bit of pace about him so that will certainly be a plus point at the back.
Will be interesting to see for sure. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:57 - Jul 21 with 1085 views | raynor94 |
Of course they do, it's a new season fresh start.
I'm certainly excited |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 16:00 - Jul 21 with 1085 views | swan65split |
I have a feeling this season is going to be tougher than last, but thats going to apply to all the teams hoping/wanting to go up, so yep Ill go with what you say till the WC break.....but if its disastrous till then, its a no brainer.
Football is a "funny old game" so many things can go against you, and despite what the know alls say, like life is unpredictable . just give it your best and have a go, that's all we can ask. |  | | |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:08 - Jul 21 with 1031 views | vetchonian |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:47 - Jul 21 by jasper_T |
It's not a clean slate. We'll be expecting to see progression and lessons learned from last season. That's not too much to ask. He's still got the core of last season's team plus new signings.
Martin is the 30th longest-serving manager in the EFL right now (out of 70, two jobs currently vacant). How can it be too early to judge his/our performances? |
100% agree we kept hearing last season to "trust in the process" we were told to be patient that we were in transition ....well this is a continuation of the process if we are still making the smae mistakes 10 games in then Im sorry but questions should be asked | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:16 - Jul 21 with 1019 views | magicdaps10 |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:47 - Jul 21 by jasper_T |
It's not a clean slate. We'll be expecting to see progression and lessons learned from last season. That's not too much to ask. He's still got the core of last season's team plus new signings.
Martin is the 30th longest-serving manager in the EFL right now (out of 70, two jobs currently vacant). How can it be too early to judge his/our performances? |
I think clean slate is the wrong term to be used, I think Keith might be stating are we willing to give him a chance to see if he has eradicated issues from the previous season, given we have got a few defenders through the door then surely we should hold views until the action starts on the pitch.
For me it's going to be the same
A. I told you
B. It's working because he has changed tactics etc.
Its hedging the bets to cover ones bottom in both eventualities. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:10 - Jul 21 with 967 views | KeithHaynes |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:26 - Jul 21 by shandyjack |
Don't see how they can start with a clean slate when they had 46 games last season.
Guess the big question is have we learnt from last season.
I.e
Are we still conceding early into both halves, or straight after we have scored.
Are we still conceding from silly avoidable mistakes
Is he still persisting with 3-5-2 even when it isn't working
If we lose the first 5 games then he will be under massive pressure over his 'principles'
I'd give him untill WC and expect us to be at least top 10 |
My point is that last season was a rebuild, surely this time around we judge him on what he will achieve ?
He has already paid his contract for three years and his staff plus made around five million for the club with the sale of Downes as an example. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:11 - Jul 21 with 964 views | KeithHaynes |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 15:47 - Jul 21 by jasper_T |
It's not a clean slate. We'll be expecting to see progression and lessons learned from last season. That's not too much to ask. He's still got the core of last season's team plus new signings.
Martin is the 30th longest-serving manager in the EFL right now (out of 70, two jobs currently vacant). How can it be too early to judge his/our performances? |
We need to look forwards. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:14 - Jul 21 with 960 views | raynor94 |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:10 - Jul 21 by KeithHaynes |
My point is that last season was a rebuild, surely this time around we judge him on what he will achieve ?
He has already paid his contract for three years and his staff plus made around five million for the club with the sale of Downes as an example. |
Your first paragraph is spot on, last season has gone.
Let's judge him on this season | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:31 - Jul 21 with 942 views | jasper_T |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:16 - Jul 21 by magicdaps10 |
I think clean slate is the wrong term to be used, I think Keith might be stating are we willing to give him a chance to see if he has eradicated issues from the previous season, given we have got a few defenders through the door then surely we should hold views until the action starts on the pitch.
For me it's going to be the same
A. I told you
B. It's working because he has changed tactics etc.
Its hedging the bets to cover ones bottom in both eventualities. |
We have changed tactics in preseason, using the back four more often. Hopefully we stick with it and it's not just a temporary measure while he signs a right wing back, as it did look better on the few occasions we used it last season (like going 3-0 up against Bournemouth).
Something had to change. No win in the last 6 games shouldn't be forgotten. It's a kind opening run of fixtures, so if we're flirting with the bottom end of the table come mid-September something dramatic will have to happen. He's had more time to implement his methods than 2/3rds of the other managers in the league. | | | |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 23:39 - Jul 21 with 866 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
It is about progress and development. This teams looks a whole lot stronger than the one which started last season because the players have developed.
The style is more established and he has a had a full pre season Joey Allen has arrived along with a very talented centre back. Young players are a year older and more experienced and the team is more settled from day one.
Anything other than top 8 is failure. |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 10:52 - Jul 22 with 774 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Not a clean slate no.
They have had 50+ games so that has to be taken into consideration otherwise we can’t judge what we see accurately.
But he has just the same amount of opportunity to turn opinion as he always has, if that’s a better way to put it?
If he sticks with his stubborn self indulgent rubbish with zero culpability saying “we are still building” then the previous 50 games will come into play very quickly and people will lose patience as he isn’t learning. |  |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 11:16 - Jul 22 with 749 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:31 - Jul 21 by jasper_T |
We have changed tactics in preseason, using the back four more often. Hopefully we stick with it and it's not just a temporary measure while he signs a right wing back, as it did look better on the few occasions we used it last season (like going 3-0 up against Bournemouth).
Something had to change. No win in the last 6 games shouldn't be forgotten. It's a kind opening run of fixtures, so if we're flirting with the bottom end of the table come mid-September something dramatic will have to happen. He's had more time to implement his methods than 2/3rds of the other managers in the league. |
Correct.
What he meant was he is hedging his own bets. It will either be:-
1) Told you so
2) He needs more time and we don’t have a good side, he’s doing his best with what he has. Don’t be so negative everyone.
At no point will he admit he got is spectacularly wrong and other saw it very early, meaning his constant verbal attacks on them were misplaced. A bit like the manager really, no culpability.
At no point in Martin’s managerial career thus far has he ever told the fans of the club that they are valid in their criticisms. He has always subverted any criticism by stating that they shouldn’t judge now but… at in an a specified time in the future.
At one point he actually said “judge me after I’ve left”. 
His disciples have taken that lead firmly out of his playbook. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 13:21 - Jul 22 with 718 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 11:16 - Jul 22 by Dr_Parnassus |
Correct.
What he meant was he is hedging his own bets. It will either be:-
1) Told you so
2) He needs more time and we don’t have a good side, he’s doing his best with what he has. Don’t be so negative everyone.
At no point will he admit he got is spectacularly wrong and other saw it very early, meaning his constant verbal attacks on them were misplaced. A bit like the manager really, no culpability.
At no point in Martin’s managerial career thus far has he ever told the fans of the club that they are valid in their criticisms. He has always subverted any criticism by stating that they shouldn’t judge now but… at in an a specified time in the future.
At one point he actually said “judge me after I’ve left”.
His disciples have taken that lead firmly out of his playbook. |
Martin has to deliver progress and a sustainable (popper) football club. It is run on sustainable lines with minor investment and no large debts. The fans own part of the club and agree with this approach. The recent settlement with the club is good news with all the ownership group pulling together and the activists dispatched and discredited.
The recent activity of Nottingham Forest and the signing of a 'poor role model' and the most mercenary of mercenary players shows how unsuited Steve Cooper was to this club. I see trouble ahead as this rogue will test some 'non negotiables.' The 'great mercenary' is no more a Cooper signing than Paul Arriola. He is a real good manager but is now out of his depth with a lot of baggage to deal with form above and below. The great mercenary has £100,000 a week to spend and so little time to spend it.
All Martin has to do is play his brand of possession football and make the team tougher to beat and more resilient. He claims the conditioning of the player general fitness and athleticism will receive the issues of last season.
More of the same will not be acceptable. He has been criticised for not adapting and then criticized for adapting. He must adapt or be sacked. Results will be the judge not forum sages. Top 8 will be progress. Top 6 good progress. Mid table is stagnation. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 13:31 - Jul 22 with 706 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 13:21 - Jul 22 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Martin has to deliver progress and a sustainable (popper) football club. It is run on sustainable lines with minor investment and no large debts. The fans own part of the club and agree with this approach. The recent settlement with the club is good news with all the ownership group pulling together and the activists dispatched and discredited.
The recent activity of Nottingham Forest and the signing of a 'poor role model' and the most mercenary of mercenary players shows how unsuited Steve Cooper was to this club. I see trouble ahead as this rogue will test some 'non negotiables.' The 'great mercenary' is no more a Cooper signing than Paul Arriola. He is a real good manager but is now out of his depth with a lot of baggage to deal with form above and below. The great mercenary has £100,000 a week to spend and so little time to spend it.
All Martin has to do is play his brand of possession football and make the team tougher to beat and more resilient. He claims the conditioning of the player general fitness and athleticism will receive the issues of last season.
More of the same will not be acceptable. He has been criticised for not adapting and then criticized for adapting. He must adapt or be sacked. Results will be the judge not forum sages. Top 8 will be progress. Top 6 good progress. Mid table is stagnation. |
Bizarre post, full of contradictions.
“All Martin has to do is play his brand of possession football.”
“More of the same will not be acceptable.”
We saw his brand of possession football, it was horrific.
Cooper has been fantastic at every level he has managed and ever season he’s managed. One of the best win rates in the football league and last season was one of the greatest seasons any club has seen at this level - possibly ever.
All this harping back to Cooper is pointless. The club made a huge error and I’m sure they recognise that. But we can’t compound that error by sticking with the mediocrity we have replaced him with. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 14:38 - Jul 22 with 670 views | AndyCole |
Of course they don't get a clean slate.
They keep telling us about the project, tranishun, a journey.
Any transformation project should have clear targets, milestones and measures of performance along the way.
Time Martin is held to account on his project, not given a clean slate.
I'll submit a proposal to Jake for some proper advice, drawing upon a few subject matter experts from here (sheeple need not apply).
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Where is he on his journey ? | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 16:10 - Jul 22 with 633 views | onehunglow |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 14:38 - Jul 22 by AndyCole |
Of course they don't get a clean slate.
They keep telling us about the project, tranishun, a journey.
Any transformation project should have clear targets, milestones and measures of performance along the way.
Time Martin is held to account on his project, not given a clean slate.
I'll submit a proposal to Jake for some proper advice, drawing upon a few subject matter experts from here (sheeple need not apply).
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Where is he on his journey ? |
Before his departure I hope Rus will say he turned us into a proper club.
It taggers me that he was allowed to get away with that shyte as it insults fans whether they have be so for 60 days or 60 years.
The most insulting utterance ever by any of our managers-coach is too painless a word to use . | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 16:57 - Jul 22 with 604 views | BryanSwan |
I'd like to say he would at least get until the WC to see where we are, but if we go on a bad run i think the knives will probably be out. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:17 - Jul 22 with 579 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 16:10 - Jul 22 by onehunglow |
Before his departure I hope Rus will say he turned us into a proper club.
It taggers me that he was allowed to get away with that shyte as it insults fans whether they have be so for 60 days or 60 years.
The most insulting utterance ever by any of our managers-coach is too painless a word to use . |
You are hypersensitive for effect. No one buys it. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:28 - Jul 22 with 569 views | nantywatcher |
I'm pretty certain I was the first person on this forum to cast doubts about Martin early last season suggesting he could well be a "bullshi**er." For me last season's performances underlined how right I was
HOWEVER he is a charismatic and intelligent man who has the capability, I am sure, to turn this around. I'm going into this season with an open mind and wish him and the team well for the season coming - anything is possible. Mind you I thought Keith's comment that he would not worry if we lost all the first five games rather disturbing. | | | |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:41 - Jul 22 with 551 views | KeithHaynes |
| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 17:28 - Jul 22 by nantywatcher |
I'm pretty certain I was the first person on this forum to cast doubts about Martin early last season suggesting he could well be a "bullshi**er." For me last season's performances underlined how right I was
HOWEVER he is a charismatic and intelligent man who has the capability, I am sure, to turn this around. I'm going into this season with an open mind and wish him and the team well for the season coming - anything is possible. Mind you I thought Keith's comment that he would not worry if we lost all the first five games rather disturbing. |
I can’t worry, he will still be here, as I’ve said elsewhere, he will be on the brink, but people have to accept this. Of course I would be down beat if that happened. I don’t think it will, but football is weird at times, he could win the first five. | |
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| Do Martin & Gill start with a clean slate come next Saturday ? on 18:35 - Jul 22 with 501 views | Boundy |
Not sure but were there expectations that Coopers second season would equal his first ? | |
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