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Leistner for Barbet 22:03 - Aug 21 with 8553 viewsHunterhoop

An absolute must. Shambles of a performance from Barbet. The pen was rank stupidity. That’s now 3 goals in 3 games he’s been at fault for.

But that’s the obvious. Where was the great ball player? Lots of long diagonals a la Lynch. Where was he for their free header for the third? How many times was he beaten to the ball by their forward?

On current showing he’s neither quick, nor strong, nor good in the air, nor good at positioning, nor great at tackling. He’s competent on the ball but no more.

We will continue to concede 2+ a game with him and Hall. For all his faults, Leistner gets himself in the way and defends. We desperately need to be able to defend. On the ball we looked fine today and it wasn’t Barbet orchestrating things.

If Warburton is operating a meritocracy, Barber spends a few games on the bench.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:05 - Aug 21 with 4248 viewsdavman

Totally agree. Barbet looking poor at the moment and Hall not much better.

Money, money, money - we're not really like Chelscum, are we?
Poll: One more incoming according to Warburton, but what position?

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Leistner for Barbet on 22:10 - Aug 21 with 4177 viewssevenhoop

Can’t disagree. I’d look at 3-5-2 to give us more up front
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:12 - Aug 21 with 4149 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

I think those forays into the base of midfield are vital to what we want to do.

That said a big dirty bastard won’t go amiss.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:12 - Aug 21 with 4149 viewsBrianMcCarthy

I think that drops us further back the pitch, Hunter, and our pressing and good football disappears.

I'd stick with Barbet and Hall for a bit longer, I think, and see if they can be coached to eradicate the mistakes.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

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Leistner for Barbet on 22:14 - Aug 21 with 4118 viewsrunningman75

Was going to reserve my judgement for a few more games on Barbet but Brentford fan I know said he was a liability at the beginning of the season. Not there tonight but he gave a stupid penalty away against Huddersfield in a winnable game. Hope BFG or a youngster given a chance. Barbet becoming the new Karl Ready.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:17 - Aug 21 with 4077 viewsbosh67

Big Toni is a no nonsense defender who knows how to defend as a CB. I think Hall would be far better lined up alongside him. Barbet doesn't seem to read the game well enough or spot players making runs. He seems very slow at the moment.

I think MB has to sacrifice alleged ball playing at the back for 2 cbs bullying and clearing the ball at all angles and having full backs that ball play.

He needs to stem that quickly because even though we are leaking goals with better defending we are actually pretty good and the goals will come.

Never knowingly right.
Poll: Rename South Africa Road stand the Stan Bowles stand

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Leistner for Barbet on 22:21 - Aug 21 with 4040 viewsHunterhoop

Firstly, Leistner is nowhere near the Neanderthal on the ball common narrative makes out.

Secondly, Barbet makes far fewer “marauding runs” than people think.

Thirdly, he’s not very quick. Exhibit A: the Huddersfield goal. Exhibit B: the late challenge (a few strides before he dived) for the pen today. But he also got turned today and there were two close offsides he coukdb’t Get back for.

Fourthly, how many times did our “pressing” win possession in their half today? We ween’t so high as to condense the pitch and enable it. We might be a yard or two deeper, which given how often teams are getting in behind is no bad thing, but we’re not talking about going from a defensive line on the half way line to the edge of our box.

Fifthly, the 3rd today came from a cross from the byline. 3 defenders in the box by my count; one forward. Not one within 3 yards of him.

You can play a pressing game and pass out as much as you like, but you have to be able to defend. It is not a simple narrative of one or the other. We’re not talking about needing to be Van Dijk at the back, just competent.

I’m sure we will continue to look pretty, but if we need to score 2 a game to collect any points, we will go down. Then decide how important the high line he plays is.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:22 - Aug 21 with 4020 viewsEmpireStateRanger

BFG needs to replace him if there’s no improvement vs. Wigan. Don’t think Wigan has scored since their opener, so if we can’t hold them at bay then Barbet needs to be swapped.
[Post edited 21 Aug 2019 22:42]
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:24 - Aug 21 with 3989 viewsBklynRanger

I'm not quite as angry about him as you, Hunter, but otherwise totally agree. Most of what I saw from Barbet tonight in terms of playing the ball BFG could have done - maybe not as elegantly but basically the same.

Have to say I'm not sure that Hall is completely on top of things either at the moment but he's doing a fair bit of covering.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:25 - Aug 21 with 3984 viewsBenny_the_Ball

I'm glad you said it Hunter because I know you pride yourself on central defensive know-how. I've been very underwhelmed with Barbet for all the reasons you cited but what I found incredulous on Saturday was the lack of acknowledgement for his part in the second goal. Yes Rangel shouldn't have thrown the ball back and yes Lumley made a hash of the clearance but Barbet took no responsibility at all and rather threw Joe under the bus by allowing the ball to simply run through.

Hall may have the armband but he has just returned from a lengthy lay-off and needs time to get up-to-speed. In the meantime, he needs a leader alongside him that will have his back and do the simple things well. If not Leistner, then Cameron could slot into central defence with Scowen ratting. Once Wallace is fit he could take the left back spot with Manning replacing Scowen in defensive midfield.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:32 - Aug 21 with 3911 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Leistner for Barbet on 22:12 - Aug 21 by BrianMcCarthy

I think that drops us further back the pitch, Hunter, and our pressing and good football disappears.

I'd stick with Barbet and Hall for a bit longer, I think, and see if they can be coached to eradicate the mistakes.


I can understand the concern something's got to give. We simply can't wait for Barbet and Hall to get it because there is no guarantee they will and even if do when? Good football is meaningless without results and we have a squad for a reason. If Warburton is unwilling to dilute his philosophy by playing Leistner then he could move Cameron back into central defence. He's played there before and did a good job there towards the end of last season.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:38 - Aug 21 with 3829 viewsWestbourneR

Barbet. Hmmm. It’s not been a good start. Perhaps not surprising as he was let go ok a free.

Hall. Never felt he has the physical presence of grizzly commitment to be a centre back.

I’d defo get Toni in there.

Poll: Should JFH get the sack?

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Leistner for Barbet on 22:39 - Aug 21 with 3826 viewsVancouverHoop

Leistner for Barbet on 22:32 - Aug 21 by Benny_the_Ball

I can understand the concern something's got to give. We simply can't wait for Barbet and Hall to get it because there is no guarantee they will and even if do when? Good football is meaningless without results and we have a squad for a reason. If Warburton is unwilling to dilute his philosophy by playing Leistner then he could move Cameron back into central defence. He's played there before and did a good job there towards the end of last season.


That's more likely I suspect. He won't want to change our style of play, and believes bringing in Leistner would require that (not saying he's right. We played a 4-1-4-1 today, so if that continues who replaces Cameron as DM? Scowen?
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:43 - Aug 21 with 3769 viewsridethewave

Leistner for Barbet on 22:25 - Aug 21 by Benny_the_Ball

I'm glad you said it Hunter because I know you pride yourself on central defensive know-how. I've been very underwhelmed with Barbet for all the reasons you cited but what I found incredulous on Saturday was the lack of acknowledgement for his part in the second goal. Yes Rangel shouldn't have thrown the ball back and yes Lumley made a hash of the clearance but Barbet took no responsibility at all and rather threw Joe under the bus by allowing the ball to simply run through.

Hall may have the armband but he has just returned from a lengthy lay-off and needs time to get up-to-speed. In the meantime, he needs a leader alongside him that will have his back and do the simple things well. If not Leistner, then Cameron could slot into central defence with Scowen ratting. Once Wallace is fit he could take the left back spot with Manning replacing Scowen in defensive midfield.


Why on earth would you move Manning? He’s been our best player this year by some distance, just let him keep improving. I don’t think moving him will help in the slightest.

As for Scowen, he’s a complete liability, so I’d rather he wasn’t adding to our problems.

I genuinely think we are so close to being a really good team, just hope whatever he does, Warburton can get some goals from the front and some protection from the back, otherwise we’ll be complimenting ourselves on all the great football every week, whilst not picking up any points!

Still very hopeful at the moment.
[Post edited 21 Aug 2019 22:45]
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:45 - Aug 21 with 3752 viewsPunteR

Didnt we sign another 20 year old CB in the summer ? cant remember his name though. Is he any good?

Fail we may, sail we must.

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Leistner for Barbet on 22:51 - Aug 21 with 3672 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Leistner for Barbet on 22:43 - Aug 21 by ridethewave

Why on earth would you move Manning? He’s been our best player this year by some distance, just let him keep improving. I don’t think moving him will help in the slightest.

As for Scowen, he’s a complete liability, so I’d rather he wasn’t adding to our problems.

I genuinely think we are so close to being a really good team, just hope whatever he does, Warburton can get some goals from the front and some protection from the back, otherwise we’ll be complimenting ourselves on all the great football every week, whilst not picking up any points!

Still very hopeful at the moment.
[Post edited 21 Aug 2019 22:45]


Because when Wallace is fit we'll need his commanding presence in the defence. Moving Manning accomodates Wallace but at the same time recognises Manning's good form by keeping him in the team (at the expense of Scowen who's been poor). Besides Manning is a midifleder first and foremost and can do a job there.

It's little use just hoping for protection at the back; changes are needed to provide that protection. Good teams are built from the back; once the defence is sorted then goals will follow.
[Post edited 21 Aug 2019 22:54]
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:51 - Aug 21 with 3667 viewsbob566

Leistner for Barbet on 22:45 - Aug 21 by PunteR

Didnt we sign another 20 year old CB in the summer ? cant remember his name though. Is he any good?


Should be masterson and bfg2 starting.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:56 - Aug 21 with 3602 viewsBklynRanger

Leistner for Barbet on 22:45 - Aug 21 by PunteR

Didnt we sign another 20 year old CB in the summer ? cant remember his name though. Is he any good?


Yeah the young lad from Liverpool - name escapes me. He was warming up in front of me during the Bristol cup game. Looked very young and far from an imposing physical presence. Could obviously still be a very good player but reeks of one for the medium-term future (if that's the right terminology) rather than someone to come in and make a difference now.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:57 - Aug 21 with 3596 viewsDannytheR

Don't agree. Barbet has made a couple of absolute fk ups (you just knew what he was going to do in the penalty box tonight) but our entire system is based around a high line and centre backs with pace and decent ability on the ball. All of that goes down the swanny with Leistner.

I have no problem with Leistner, who always seems a good honest pro, but we do have short memories sometimes - he was all over the place much of last season, made plenty of mistakes himself, and is so zimmer-frame-slow everything has to be built around him. We might as well bring Clint Hil back (I'm actually surprised no-one has suggested this yet.)

If we're going to single any players out as liabilities - which would be unfair for an entirely new team of kids, loans and free transfers a few weeks into the season - then Cameron cost us the first goal and the first half in general, poor old Scowen is struggling every game, and our shiny Premiership under-12s need to man up quick sharp.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:57 - Aug 21 with 3594 viewsessextaxiboy

I though his passing was Ok. He just keeps making stupid rash decisions IMO
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:58 - Aug 21 with 3585 viewsWatford_Ranger

Yeah but can Leistner blast a free kick into the wall like Barbet?

Annoyingly Wigan at home is the sort of game you’d think his (alleged) skill will benefit us when we have most of the ball and for that reason I’d keep him in, but that was a seriously poor performance.
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:58 - Aug 21 with 3585 viewsozexile

Leistner for Barbet on 22:21 - Aug 21 by Hunterhoop

Firstly, Leistner is nowhere near the Neanderthal on the ball common narrative makes out.

Secondly, Barbet makes far fewer “marauding runs” than people think.

Thirdly, he’s not very quick. Exhibit A: the Huddersfield goal. Exhibit B: the late challenge (a few strides before he dived) for the pen today. But he also got turned today and there were two close offsides he coukdb’t Get back for.

Fourthly, how many times did our “pressing” win possession in their half today? We ween’t so high as to condense the pitch and enable it. We might be a yard or two deeper, which given how often teams are getting in behind is no bad thing, but we’re not talking about going from a defensive line on the half way line to the edge of our box.

Fifthly, the 3rd today came from a cross from the byline. 3 defenders in the box by my count; one forward. Not one within 3 yards of him.

You can play a pressing game and pass out as much as you like, but you have to be able to defend. It is not a simple narrative of one or the other. We’re not talking about needing to be Van Dijk at the back, just competent.

I’m sure we will continue to look pretty, but if we need to score 2 a game to collect any points, we will go down. Then decide how important the high line he plays is.


Excellent summary
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:58 - Aug 21 with 3583 viewsDannytheR

Leistner for Barbet on 22:51 - Aug 21 by Benny_the_Ball

Because when Wallace is fit we'll need his commanding presence in the defence. Moving Manning accomodates Wallace but at the same time recognises Manning's good form by keeping him in the team (at the expense of Scowen who's been poor). Besides Manning is a midifleder first and foremost and can do a job there.

It's little use just hoping for protection at the back; changes are needed to provide that protection. Good teams are built from the back; once the defence is sorted then goals will follow.
[Post edited 21 Aug 2019 22:54]


Wallace's commanding presence in the defence?

Have you seen him play?
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Leistner for Barbet on 22:59 - Aug 21 with 3574 viewsBenny_the_Ball

Leistner for Barbet on 22:57 - Aug 21 by essextaxiboy

I though his passing was Ok. He just keeps making stupid rash decisions IMO


Pretty central to performance, I'd say.
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Leistner for Barbet on 23:01 - Aug 21 with 3556 viewsHunterhoop

Leistner for Barbet on 22:57 - Aug 21 by DannytheR

Don't agree. Barbet has made a couple of absolute fk ups (you just knew what he was going to do in the penalty box tonight) but our entire system is based around a high line and centre backs with pace and decent ability on the ball. All of that goes down the swanny with Leistner.

I have no problem with Leistner, who always seems a good honest pro, but we do have short memories sometimes - he was all over the place much of last season, made plenty of mistakes himself, and is so zimmer-frame-slow everything has to be built around him. We might as well bring Clint Hil back (I'm actually surprised no-one has suggested this yet.)

If we're going to single any players out as liabilities - which would be unfair for an entirely new team of kids, loans and free transfers a few weeks into the season - then Cameron cost us the first goal and the first half in general, poor old Scowen is struggling every game, and our shiny Premiership under-12s need to man up quick sharp.


An incredibly unfair and unbalanced summary of Leistner last season. Most headed clearances in the league. You need to be in the right place at the right time to make those clearances.

Are our entire game is not based around one centre half. That’s a huge exaggeration.
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